Toxic lich hunter bullies are spreading "badwill", ban them.

[(XBOX)Erudite Prime]

You are basically griefing other players when you refuse to attack your lich.

[Aldain]

1 minute ago, Raqiya said:

I understand both sides but I just don't think its right to go public and do something which is possibly detrimental to the three other players.

The system is at fault for making it a detriment to either 1 or 3, none of the 4 should be in an uncomfortable situation in the first place.

This shouldn't be a debate on "the lesser of two evils" it should be a debate about eliminating the core problem that creates such a dilemma in the first place.

[DatDarkOne]

1 minute ago, (XB1)Erudite Prime said:

You are basically griefing other players when you refuse to attack your lich.

If you are TRULY hunting/farming your Lich, then why would you be doing it in a random group instead of recruiting a team of like minded players or going solo?   It just seems like Common Sense to me to do it one of those two ways just to make things better.  

[zoffmode]

2 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

If you are TRULY hunting/farming your Lich, then why would you be doing it in a random group instead of recruiting a team of like minded players or going solo?   It just seems like Common Sense to me to do it one of those two ways just to make things better.  

Cause it's nearly impossible to recruit people that have your planets. So if people want to stab under current system, they go Public. If people want to avoid stabbing they should go private team since it doesn't matter if group has planets controlled or not.

[-Jorsch-]

1 minute ago, DatDarkOne said:

If you are TRULY hunting/farming your Lich, then why would you be doing it in a random group instead of recruiting a team of like minded players or going solo?   It just seems like Common Sense to me to do it one of those two ways just to make things better.  

Finding a group of lich hunters isn't exactly easy. Everyone's liches are on different planets, and your lich can only spawn on planets in their control. Can you imagine LFG, LF liches Ceres/Mars/Lua. With the amount of work it would take to find 3 others,  It's just not going to happen.

Also, If people are queuing for lich controlled territories, They are there for the purposes of hunting liches, why else would you be there, there are no other substantial rewards other than the lich weapon/ephemera.

[Remedyheart]

3 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

If you are TRULY hunting/farming your Lich, then why would you be doing it in a random group instead of recruiting a team of like minded players or going solo?   It just seems like Common Sense to me to do it one of those two ways just to make things better.  

Ease of acces perhaps you have limited time to play. It's also a new syste. so there's not many players looking for murmur farms. Then stuff like this drives more players away so less recruitment overall.

This behavior negative behavior ends up limiting players to ONLY pubs unless they want to struggle and grind much longer solo.

[DatDarkOne]

19 minutes ago, zoffmode said:

Cause it's nearly impossible to recruit people that have your planets. So if people want to stab under current system, they go Public. If people want to avoid stabbing they should go private team since it doesn't matter if group has planets controlled or not.

 

19 minutes ago, -Jorsch- said:

Finding a group of lich hunters isn't exactly easy. Everyone's liches are on different planets, and your lich can only spawn on planets in their control. Can you imagine LFG, LF liches Ceres/Mars/Lua. With the amount of work it would take to find 3 others,  It's just not going to happen.

Also, If people are queuing for lich controlled territories, They are there for the purposes of hunting liches, why else would you be there, there are no other substantial rewards other than the lich weapon/ephemera.

 

19 minutes ago, Remedyheart said:

Ease of acces perhaps you have limited time to play. It's also a new syste. so there's not many players looking for murmur farms. Then stuff like this drives more players away so less recruitment overall.

This behavior negative behavior ends up limiting players to ONLY pubs unless they want to struggle and grind much longer solo.

Interesting that I don't have any of those problems while having a full time job.  I only group with a set team when they happen to be streaming WF.  Otherwise I play solo.   So, let's just say my sympathy for the above statements just doesn't exist.  😄  

Don't think for a second that I'm defending this BS system of the Kuva Liches.  I'm not.  My problem with it is something I've said in a another topic. Which is...

Quote

 

That's RNG (relics) on top of RNG (requiem mods) on top of more RNG (Unlocking which 3 mods to use) followed by RNG (correct order).  

There's no skill or tactics involved in the whole process that can bring victory.  

 

 

Edited November 17, 2019 by DatDarkOne

[Remedyheart]

3 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

 

 

Interesting that I don't have any of those problems while having a full time job.  I only group with a set team when they happen to be streaming WF.  Otherwise I play solo.   So, let's just say my sympathy for the above statements just doesn't exist.  😄  

Don't think for a second that I'm defending this BS system of the Kuva Liches.  I'm not.  My problem with it is something I've said in a another topic. Which is...

 

Did you even read your own post?

You play with streamers. FYI you and your clique make the rules and you seem to have a ton of bad habits if you're forcing others to play the same way.

Jesus this explains so much in why pubs are so messed up now.

[-Jorsch-]

2 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

 

 

Interesting that I don't have any of those problems while having a full time job.  I only group with a set team when they happen to be streaming WF.  Otherwise I play solo.   So, let's just say my sympathy for the above statements just doesn't exist.  😄  

Don't think for a second that I'm defending this BS system of the Kuva Liches.  I'm not.  My problem with it is something I've said in a another topic. Which is...

 

Soooo, by your own admission you don't use LFG chat, you only play with a set group of people. So for those reasons you completely ignore and disregard the reasons for people not wanting to use the LFG chat to find kuva lich groups, something you yourself aren't willing to do. Brilliant.

[zoffmode]

7 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

 

 

Interesting that I don't have any of those problems while having a full time job.  I only group with a set team when they happen to be streaming WF.  Otherwise I play solo.   So, let's just say my sympathy for the above statements just doesn't exist.  😄  

Don't think for a second that I'm defending this BS system of the Kuva Liches.  I'm not.  My problem with it is something I've said in a another topic. Which is...

 

Are you using "well I don't use it so it doesn't matter" argument? There are so many bad arguments on this thread but this one takes the cake.

[DatDarkOne]

18 minutes ago, Remedyheart said:

You play with streamers. FYI you and your clique make the rules and you seem to have a ton of bad habits if you're forcing others to play the same way.

I SAID, I play with ONE streamer.  ONE.  It's a small group of regulars.  There are never any randoms for either us to inconvenience or them do the same to us.  Meaning that we all team up with like minded players to achieve the goal or we just play solo.  

17 minutes ago, -Jorsch- said:

So for those reasons you completely ignore and disregard the reasons for people not wanting to use the LFG chat to find kuva lich groups

I said recruit like minded players or solo.  I did not say how you go about doing that.  I also said to go solo, which is something I do.  Notice all of you just ignored that as a viable option because it doesn't fit your narrative.  Just as this person in the quote below is doing.  

14 minutes ago, zoffmode said:

Are you using "well I don't use it so it doesn't matter" argument? There are so many bad arguments on this thread but this one takes the cake.

You can be a victim and constantly blame others for your issues, or you can take responsibility for your own actions and choices.  You have the choice to go pub, make a group, or go solo.  Don't act like you only have one choice when you have 3 and ignoring two of those.  

I will say this again as some seem to miss my point.  I have problems with the Kuva Lich System.  I just don't ignore the real problem by bringing up something that is just a symptom of the bigger problem.  

Edited November 17, 2019 by DatDarkOne

[zoffmode]

3 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

I SAID, I play with ONE streamer.  ONE.  It's a small group of regulars.  There are never any randoms for either us to inconvenience or them do the same to us.  Meaning that we all team up with like minded players to achieve the goal or we just play solo.  

I said recruit like minded players or solo.  I did not say how you go about doing that.  I also said to go solo, which is something I do.  Notice all of you just ignored that as a viable option because it doesn't fit your narrative.  Just as this person in the quote below is doing.  

You can be a victim and constantly blame others for your issues, or you can take responsibility for your own actions and choices.  You have the choice to go pub, make a group, or go solo.  Don't act like you only have one choice when you have 3 and ignoring two of those.  

I will say this again as some seem to miss my point.  I have problems with the Kuva Lich System.  I just don't ignore the real problem by bringing up something that is just a symptom of the bigger problem.  

You asked "why do you go Public?". We answered in perfectly logical manner. Now you are instead just disregarding the whole explanation of why people go Public and attempt to take an air of superiority. Don't ask if you don't care for answers. Just admit you're a selfish person and be done with it then.

I also have a bunch of people I play with. Does that matter here? No, because that doesn't change anything. Nor does your fulltime job or anyone else's.

[Cloud]

On 2019-11-15 at 9:55 AM, Graavarg said:

A new trending behaviour is lich hunters verbally mobbing, bullying and abusing other players in PUB missions in order to force them to attack their personal lich. Presumably in order to get a few more murmurs. This idiocy should be stopped, by any means necessary. 

• A lich is a  personal part of the game, and all should be free to do the missions exactly the way they want (without other players abusing them in chat).
• Playing a PUB mission with randoms inherently means that there is no agreed special way of doing the mission. Trying to force other random players to do it "your way" (do your bidding) is rude, bad manners, or worse. Anyone wanting a dedicated team can use the chat (or clan, or friends list) to form one. And if you really feel to need for a fellow Tenno to help you  out "in mission", you can ask nicely and politely.

I don't personally care that much about the nagging, to me it's just a way of saying "hey, I play this game and I am an idiot". But I've now several times seen lower MR players giving to this abuse, and this pisses me off. I also hate bullies, always have and always will.

At this point in time I would even support banning the bullies and abusers for 24h in order to cool them down. I know it is an extra hassle for DE to handle the reports, but it would be unfortunate if this behaviour was allowed to continue as it will presumably lead to "not so experienced" players getting turned off from the lich mechanic. And we've seen all this before, with bosses, events and with trid hunts, just to name a few examples.

For what I care you are free to do whatever you want with your Lich in solo, even taking stupid choices as not killing him for whatever absurd reason you may come up with, but in the moment you don't let you teammates progress with their Liches for your selfishness and misinformation, you deserve not only to be called out, but if it was up to me, I would report you for game sabotage.

[DatDarkOne]

22 minutes ago, zoffmode said:

You asked "why do you go Public?". We answered in perfectly logical manner.

You took a piece of my earlier statement instead of the whole thing.  Doesn't surprise me that this happened in the forum.  

22 minutes ago, zoffmode said:

Now you are instead just disregarding the whole explanation of why people go Public and attempt to take an air of superiority.

So, you're upset because I said I don't have any sympathy for them.  Honestly, why should I care about people I don't know or will never meet.  That's just the truth and not a question.

22 minutes ago, zoffmode said:

Just admit you're a selfish person and be done with it then.

Notice I said I play solo or with my dedicated group as to NOT INCONVENIENCE others with my playstyle.  If that's being selfish, then I'm very very selfish.  

I guess next you will say that I'm stalking you or some other nonsense to paint me as the bad guy.  

Now Cloud just posted something I like.  

13 minutes ago, Cloud said:

For what I care you are free to do whatever you want with your Lich in solo, even taking stupid choices as not killing him for whatever absurd reason you may come up with, but in the moment you don't let you teammates progress with their Liches for your selfishness and misinformation, you deserve not only to be called out, but if it was up to me, I would report you for game sabotage.

This quote just happens to be inline with what I said about going pub while Kuva Lich hunting.  

Edited November 17, 2019 by DatDarkOne

[Graavarg]

2 hours ago, Tinklzs said:

Edit :Same thing with OP - why ban players when DE has made that choice, there are dozens of ideas on these forums to make Kuva Lich farming better for all involved.

And personally I think many of the suggestions would make things better. And I wish the fix will happen tomorrow Monday so we can get rid of this sh-t.

Banning players that harass and bully others is a general thing, harassing others and behaving badly is against DE rules and when severe enough bans should always happen, it is not only a lich mechanism-specific thing. And as we all probably know banning also does happen, and that reporting obnoxious behaviour can lead to bans (not always, but depending on circumstance). That is nothing new, and should in no way be controversial.

Lich farming + the current system just happens to create a situation where things explode. But everyone is still responsible for what they do and say, if you unload on a poor low-MR just because he/she won't stab his lich YOU are responsible, you can blame DE for the design, but not for acting like a bully. And if someone is enough out of line and get reported a ban should follow. Just take a screenshot of the chat and report, DE will sort it out. Everyone has to behave, even in lich missions. And "being severely out of line" has been the case multiple times (though I will not go into specifics or post screenshots in the forum), but since I can see what happens only with the squad I am in and there are millions of players my assumption and extrapolation (since I can't know) is that this is a fairly large problem currently.

However, I now rest my case, everything has been covered (many times over). If DE really needs the info and want to act on it there is plenty in this surprisingly large thread. Never saw this huge discussion coming, had just observed one more case of bullying and obnoxious behaviour in-game and thought this just has to stop (players destroying other players gaming experience), so I made a post. Still think I am in the right 🙂.

From my point of view I want to thank each and everyone who has contributed. Thanks guys. And if you want to continue, feel free. For me real life and Monday morning beckons...

Edited November 17, 2019 by Graavarg

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

22 pages of players arguing about how someone else needs to play that they don't know LMAO I'm not stabbing my lich untill I have all three mods and I'm not dying from him untill I fail those guesses. Until then if I don't have my revenant out to send him away in not going to bother trying to Stab him GG tenno

[Remedyheart]

2 hours ago, DatDarkOne said:

I SAID, I play with ONE streamer.  ONE.  It's a small group of regulars.  There are never any randoms for either us to inconvenience or them do the same to us.  Meaning that we all team up with like minded players to achieve the goal or we just play solo.  

I said recruit like minded players or solo.  I did not say how you go about doing that.  I also said to go solo, which is something I do.  Notice all of you just ignored that as a viable option because it doesn't fit your narrative.  Just as this person in the quote below is doing.  

You can be a victim and constantly blame others for your issues, or you can take responsibility for your own actions and choices.  You have the choice to go pub, make a group, or go solo.  Don't act like you only have one choice when you have 3 and ignoring two of those.  

I will say this again as some seem to miss my point.  I have problems with the Kuva Lich System.  I just don't ignore the real problem by bringing up something that is just a symptom of the bigger problem.  

Sure no problem let me ask my strramer friend....Oh wait! We don't have one!

Gee now doesn't that suck. Seriously dude you sound very rude and horrendous.

[Remedyheart]

1 hour ago, Graavarg said:

And personally I think many of the suggestions would make things better. And I wish the fix will happen tomorrow Monday so we can get rid of this sh-t.

Banning players that harass and bully others is a general thing, harassing others and behaving badly is against DE rules and when severe enough bans should always happen, it is not only a lich mechanism-specific thing. And as we all probably know banning also does happen, and that reporting obnoxious behaviour can lead to bans (not always, but depending on circumstance). That is nothing new, and should in no way be controversial.

Lich farming + the current system just happens to create a situation where things explode. But everyone is still responsible for what they do and say, if you unload on a poor low-MR just because he/she won't stab his lich YOU are responsible, you can blame DE for the design, but not for acting like a bully. And if someone is enough out of line and get reported a ban should follow. Just take a screenshot of the chat and report, DE will sort it out. Everyone has to behave, even in lich missions. And "being severely out of line" has been the case multiple times (though I will not go into specifics or post screenshots in the forum), but since I can see what happens only with the squad I am in and there are millions of players my assumption and extrapolation (since I can't know) is that this is a fairly large problem currently.

However, I now rest my case, everything has been covered (many times over). If DE really needs the info and want to act on it there is plenty in this surprisingly large thread. Never saw this huge discussion coming, had just observed one more case of bullying and obnoxious behaviour in-game and thought this just has to stop (players destroying other players gaming experience), so I made a post. Still think I am in the right 🙂.

From my point of view I want to thank each and everyone who has contributed. Thanks guys. And if you want to continue, feel free. For me real life and Monday morning beckons...

Its not a reason of cannot if the team can help him. And the reason of do not falls upon the lich's player.

The potential for Lich Greifing is not one manner that should get 3 other players banned for just wanting to figure out their mod sequences.

You not killing them while one or two players are set to kill their lich is just rude mean inconsiderate and creates a horrible environment. We can sit and argue all the time but that si gle one player will continue to wait until you have finally taken the step forward to do so.

You would east another player's time and force him into extra missions with the threat of bans and reports for the mere request of "Hey buddy can you grt rid of your lich? We've been fighting him for 3 minutes now. I need to kill my own lich. Thanks."

Oh and 3 minutes of dying gam3play plus further time used up would make many a player mad so their aggression is caused by your choice of ignoring the situation and creating a public problem.

Rethink your choices please. No one wants to br pushed away just because one player deems it so. This is what Lich Greifing essentially comes down to.

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

1 hour ago, Remedyheart said:

Its not a reason of cannot if the team can help him. And the reason of do not falls upon the lich's player.

The potential for Lich Greifing is not one manner that should get 3 other players banned for just wanting to figure out their mod sequences.

You not killing them while one or two players are set to kill their lich is just rude mean inconsiderate and creates a horrible environment. We can sit and argue all the time but that si gle one player will continue to wait until you have finally taken the step forward to do so.

You would east another player's time and force him into extra missions with the threat of bans and reports for the mere request of "Hey buddy can you grt rid of your lich? We've been fighting him for 3 minutes now. I need to kill my own lich. Thanks."

Oh and 3 minutes of dying gam3play plus further time used up would make many a player mad so their aggression is caused by your choice of ignoring the situation and creating a public problem.

Rethink your choices please. No one wants to br pushed away just because one player deems it so. This is what Lich Greifing essentially comes down to.

Lmao lich griefing  this is hilarous

[Remedyheart]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

Lmao lich griefing  this is hilarous

I could say the same thing about toxicity among majority of the playerbase or asking for bans...Like come on this is hilarious and not the ban requests?

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

1 minute ago, Remedyheart said:

I could say the same thing about toxicity among majority of the playerbase or asking for bans...Like come on this is hilarious and not the ban requests?

Lich grefing is just as hilarious as calling for a ban. You can't control what the next player does in a public match. Calling it grefing because you want to kill your lich is just plain out selfish. If you want to farm a specific thing it's common knowledge to seek a group for tasks at hand such as lich murmur farmin. Expecting a "common courtesy" in a public match is laughable 

[Rakosta_Kai]

2 hours ago, MPonder said:

Thralls number per missions doesn't seems to change when the "anger" bar is low and when is high. Gonna do some tests later.

It does for me. I suggest trying it solo and not bombing the whole room. The Lich needs active bodies to convert.

2 hours ago, MPonder said:

This one I tested more than one time, I let the lich live for a long time, there was no Thrall been generated, there is a initial generation, but there was it for me.

It's not just the Lich you have to let live... It's the mobs in the room as well— I ignore all mobs that aren't Nox or Leeches when my Lich shows up.

...When my lich shows up, Thralls go first in the kill order above all.

From that point,  I watch the Lich point at random mobs and they transform into thralls every time.  The number tends to be limited though— I tend to get at least 6 per mission that way.

2 hours ago, Remedyheart said:

Okay. Someone's not listening. We want to stab it for the positives.

Yes, I hear you...And that isn't the only way to get positives.

Likewise, I am telling you that what you call a negative actually isn't.

For 10 murmurs, you cost yourself on average 3-4 additional missions (per set) at a rate of ~6 additional murmurs per mission rebuilding rage enough to get the Lich to re-spawn...I do not.

I clear ~20 additional murmurs in that time from those missions where you are trying to rebuild rage to attempt for 10 more.

3 hours ago, Remedyheart said:

Where is this preservation thing coming from when I need to figure out a process of elimination here. Better to do it early rather than wasting your time in 4 to 5 extra missions to figure out the right sequence.

I haven't even made mention of sequence as my goal is clearing the murmurs.

Put simply, having tried both styles of generation and discovery... I prefer ignoring the Lich, for the most part, while I am working on murmurs. YMMV

And there is nothing wrong with your way imo...Until you start bullying others to do as you say in order to convenience you. 

That said, I am not an advocate of players who choose not to attempt their lich because they don't want to inflate it's level or difficulty.

I don't agree with the prevailing etiquette but do respect it enough to adjust accordingly if I find myself in a position to have to group.

...I do take issue with all the bullying being done on the subject though. 

3 hours ago, Remedyheart said:

The biggiest issue for req mods is the murmur farm. Not the requence. Knock out the bigger issue which is murmurs not sequence of mods.

Perhaps you misunderstand...I never mentioned mod sequence aside from the sequential order you complete murmurs. 

My way earns me more murmurs. I will attempt once the accrual almost clears the first group of murmurs provided it's enough to get the 1st requiem mod hint (not the first in parazon order for the kill...I wish though 😁. My 3rd hint is always the first in order for some reason.) because you have time to build rage back up and alot of missions to complete regardless.

I save groups for those team oriented missions in instances (Typically the start of the 2nd set of murmurs) where I am out of other missions and my Lich's rage is low (ensuring no spawn) so I don't have to listen to folks having conniption fits because I waited to kill my lich until after it converted some thralls.

Long story short? You really aren't losing anything if someone else doesn't attempt their lich. 

Still feel like you are? Run the next mission solo and make the attempt then... Try what I told you and you won't just get your 10 for the attempt but even more from conversions.

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

20 minutes ago, Padre_Akais said:

It does for me. I suggest trying it solo and not bombing the whole room. The Lich needs active bodies to convert.

It's not just the Lich you have to let live... It's the mobs in the room as well— I ignore all mobs that aren't Nox or Leeches when my Lich shows up.

...When my lich shows up, Thralls go first in the kill order above all.

From that point,  I watch the Lich point at random mobs and they transform into thralls every time.  The number tends to be limited though— I tend to get at least 6 per mission that way.

Yes, I hear you...And that isn't the only way to get positives.

Likewise, I am telling you that what you call a negative actually isn't.

For 10 murmurs, you cost yourself on average 3-4 additional missions (per set) at a rate of ~6 additional murmurs per mission rebuilding rage enough to get the Lich to re-spawn...I do not.

I clear ~20 additional murmurs in that time from those missions where you are trying to rebuild rage to attempt for 10 more.

I haven't even made mention of sequence as my goal is clearing the murmurs.

Put simply, having tried both styles of generation and discovery... I prefer ignoring the Lich, for the most part, while I am working on murmurs. YMMV

And there is nothing wrong with your way imo...Until you start bullying others to do as you say in order to convenience you. 

That said, I am not an advocate of players who choose not to attempt their lich because they don't want to inflate it's level or difficulty.

I don't agree with the prevailing etiquette but do respect it enough to adjust accordingly if I find myself in a position to have to group.

...I do take issue with all the bullying being done on the subject though. 

Perhaps you misunderstand...I never mentioned mod sequence aside from the sequential order you complete murmurs. 

My way earns me more murmurs. I will attempt once the accrual almost clears the first group of murmurs provided it's enough to get the 1st requiem mod hint (not the first in parazon order for the kill...I wish though 😁. My 3rd hint is always the first in order for some reason.) because you have time to build rage back up and alot of missions to complete regardless.

I save groups for those team oriented missions in instances (Typically the start of the 2nd set of murmurs) where I am out of other missions and my Lich's rage is low (ensuring no spawn) so I don't have to listen to folks having conniption fits because I waited to kill my lich until after it converted some thralls.

Long story short? You really aren't losing anything if someone else doesn't attempt their lich. 

Still feel like you are? Run the next mission solo and make the attempt then... Try what I told you and you won't just get your 10 for the attempt but even more from conversions.

They don't want to actually converse they wanna screech till people agree 

[DatDarkOne]

1 minute ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

They don't want to actually converse they wanna screech till people agree 

That's about the size of it.  

[Aldain]

Just now, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

They don't want to actually converse they wanna screech till people agree 

^That.

Otherwise they would have a comeback to my statements like:

4 hours ago, Aldain said:

The system is at fault for making it a detriment to either 1 or 3, none of the 4 should be in an uncomfortable situation in the first place.

This shouldn't be a debate on "the lesser of two evils" it should be a debate about eliminating the core problem that creates such a dilemma in the first place.

Which you may notice get mysteriously ignored in these threads. Most of the people just want to complain about the other side of the fence rather than tear the fence that is separating them down. Sad state of affairs really.