Toxic lich hunter bullies are spreading "badwill", ban them.

[Aldain]

Uh guys, your argument is going even less nowhere than the rest of the thread already is, I actually think the wheels on the bus are spinning in reverse now -looks out window- yep, they are spinning the wrong way.

[DatDarkOne]

What the majority wants.  Yet I'm toxic for choosing to play solo to not inconvenience anyone, and suggesting it.  Well damn.  

[zoffmode]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

Provide the data  rather then some personal opinions show me a solid number that shows this. 

Provide me data for the opposite instead. It's unfair to expect to me to do the impossible work while you sit and do nothing. 

How about this then. Do you disagree that if 3 players ask 4th to stab the Lich he should either stab or leave the mission? No abusive behavior in the scenario and no responding that DE should fix the issue (of course they should, but that is beside the point).

  

2 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

What the majority wants.  Yet I'm toxic for choosing to play solo to not inconvenience anyone, and suggesting it.  Well damn.  

I suggest you go back and reread my response to you because you clearly misundertood it. 

Edited November 18, 2019 by zoffmode

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

Just now, zoffmode said:

Provide me data for the opposite instead. It's unfair to expect to me to do the impossible work while you sit and do nothing. 

How about this then. Do you disagree that if 3 players ask 4th to stab the Lich he should either stab or leave the mission? No abusive behavior in the scenario and no responding that DE should fix the issue (of course they should, but that is beside the point).

Telling someone to leave the mission because they aren't playing how you want them to play is a major issue. One can simply say no and you all can form. A squad and farm afterwards for one. 

 

And. Didn't I ask you. No where have I claimed a majority has said or done anything. You gave me a variable and I'm asking for the numbers. 

 

 

Put up or please stop trying to make it seem like someone's the bad guy for playing however they want in pubs 

[EmberStar]

8 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

All the while missing the real issue of....

RNG (relics) on top of RNG (requiem mods) on top of more RNG (Unlocking which 3 mods to use) followed by RNG (correct order). 

You forgot:

RNG (lich rolling to spawn) on top of RNG (MY lich spawns first and I actually want to kill it) on top of RNG (the chances of any OTHER lich spawning which is NOT actually guaranteed) on top of an absolute certainty (someone being an entitled jerk who would rather DEMAND that a PUB bow to their will than just use Recruiting Chat and form a team that all promise to play in whatever way actually suits them.)

I honestly don't know why I'm even typing anything about this to be honest.  I got rid of my third lich, and now I'm working trying to breed a "boss worthy" Rex army in Ark so I can finally clear the "you only have to fight them once" progression bosses in Ark.  After that I want to upgrade the pallisade around my village in Minecraft, and then make some improvements to my little remote control mining drone-ship in Space Engineers.  At this point I really don't care what DE does with Liches, because I'm no longer interested in interacting with the system at all.  No one would care if I did quit forever.  (I'm not, but it certainly seems like a good time to take a break for a few weeks.  Or months.  Or whatever.)

[Test-995]

1 minute ago, zoffmode said:

No abusive behavior

So i can say "no i don't want to" and none of them will be pissed? that's great, i think almost impossible though.

[Aldain]

1 minute ago, zoffmode said:

Provide me data for the opposite instead. It's unfair to expect to me to do the impossible work while you sit and do nothing.

Technically both of those are impossible to prove, there would be no reliable way to collect a sample size large enough to formulate a system to measure reliability of the data.

It would also need to be re-tested a few times to make sure the data co-relates properly and is a recurring trend rather than a single unusual sample.

...Yes I am now bored enough to be talking about data analytics in this thread.

[zoffmode]

1 minute ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

Telling someone to leave the mission because they aren't playing how you want them to play is a major issue. One can simply say no and you all can form. A squad and farm afterwards for one. 

 

And. Didn't I ask you. No where have I claimed a majority has said or done anything. You gave me a variable and I'm asking for the numbers. 

 

 

Put up or please stop trying to make it seem like someone's the bad guy for playing however they want in pubs 

So if you ultimately disagree with the concept of majority, why the hell are you asking for numbers if it's gonna be the same regardless of data?

Jesus, you are very adept at wasting everyone's time.

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

Just now, zoffmode said:

So if you ultimately disagree with the concept of majority, why the hell are you asking for numbers if it's gonna be the same regardless of data?

Jesus, you are very adept at wasting everyone's time.

There is no evidence as for what your saying however. As well as no evidence of the opposing so either way you sound just as ignorant kindnsir

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

3 minutes ago, Aldain said:

Technically both of those are impossible to prove, there would be no reliable way to collect a sample size large enough to formulate a system to measure reliability of the data.

It would also need to be re-tested a few times to make sure the data co-relates properly and is a recurring trend rather than a single unusual sample.

...Yes I am now bored enough to be talking about data analytics in this thread.

Data is something the common player dosent have access to so anyone claiming "the majority" makes me.chuckle 

[DatDarkOne]

9 minutes ago, zoffmode said:

I suggest you go back and reread my response to you because you clearly misundertood it. 

Why do you keep quoting me just to say something that is "for lack of a better word" dumb.  Nevermind don't answer that.  Please don't answer that.

Edited November 18, 2019 by DatDarkOne

[Aldain]

Just now, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

Data is something the common player dosent have access to so anyone claiming "the majority" makes me.chuckle 

We all can only speak from personal experience, honestly both personal experiences with others are right, the issue is that neither one can override the other because the data is too variable overall.

This isn't quite the same as simple number based data like usage percents or how many players have interacted with the Lich system more than once, overall it is just currently "In my experience" which while a valid statement for one's own personal time spent in the game doesn't override or negate the others.

This is why data collection and analysis is such a complex field, because measurements can only be done if all the data is similar, which is why most surveys only have "Yes" and "No" despite the room for "Maybe" technically existing.

[DatDarkOne]

15 minutes ago, EmberStar said:

You forgot:

RNG (lich rolling to spawn) on top of RNG (MY lich spawns first and I actually want to kill it) on top of RNG (the chances of any OTHER lich spawning which is NOT actually guaranteed) on top of an absolute certainty (someone being an entitled jerk who would rather DEMAND that a PUB bow to their will than just use Recruiting Chat and form a team that all promise to play in whatever way actually suits them.)

I was leaving those out because there were too many people telling me that my experience with exactly that was all in my head.  😄  

[Remedyheart]

17 minutes ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

Telling someone to leave the mission because they aren't playing how you want them to play is a major issue. One can simply say no and you all can form. A squad and farm afterwards for one. 

 

And. Didn't I ask you. No where have I claimed a majority has said or done anything. You gave me a variable and I'm asking for the numbers. 

 

 

Put up or please stop trying to make it seem like someone's the bad guy for playing however they want in pubs 

In the end no one's bullying you. Potentially that one player is harming the other three. Quite literally by utilizing a Lich AI as a greifing tool. Which as we all know is unkillable so long as the owner takes no action.

So...now you can even consider the three "bullies" just trying to defend themshelves and their gameplay.

Why should three knees bend for a request when one refuses to kneel with the three?

Poison and toxicity start out small. Then eventually grows and ovescomes. This is the behavior mirroring non stab attempts. A bad idea stemming from bad players that is growing out of control infecting more.

Please leave me out of this and get out of my way then...

[EmberStar]

11 minutes ago, Aldain said:

We all can only speak from personal experience, honestly both personal experiences with others are right, the issue is that neither one can override the other because the data is too variable overall.

This isn't quite the same as simple number based data like usage percents or how many players have interacted with the Lich system more than once, overall it is just currently "In my experience" which while a valid statement for one's own personal time spent in the game doesn't override or negate the others.

This is why data collection and analysis is such a complex field, because measurements can only be done if all the data is similar, which is why most surveys only have "Yes" and "No" despite the room for "Maybe" technically existing.

The devs probably *can* track these kinds of metrics.  Based on the infographics they've made in the past for hype reasons, they can track things like how many of a given type of enemy players have killed.  It's likely that they can track Lich spawning (they'd wand to know if anything in the data is off, like if liches somehow never spawned between 54% and 65% furious or something equally weird.)  And they can almost certainly track how often people kill their lich vs dying to it or finishing the mission without doing either.

But until they choose to share such data, players are somewhere between "random guessing" and "pulling random numbers out of holes."

[Remedyheart]

20 minutes ago, EmberStar said:

You forgot:

RNG (lich rolling to spawn) on top of RNG (MY lich spawns first and I actually want to kill it) on top of RNG (the chances of any OTHER lich spawning which is NOT actually guaranteed) on top of an absolute certainty (someone being an entitled jerk who would rather DEMAND that a PUB bow to their will than just use Recruiting Chat and form a team that all promise to play in whatever way actually suits them.)

I honestly don't know why I'm even typing anything about this to be honest.  I got rid of my third lich, and now I'm working trying to breed a "boss worthy" Rex army in Ark so I can finally clear the "you only have to fight them once" progression bosses in Ark.  After that I want to upgrade the pallisade around my village in Minecraft, and then make some improvements to my little remote control mining drone-ship in Space Engineers.  At this point I really don't care what DE does with Liches, because I'm no longer interested in interacting with the system at all.  No one would care if I did quit forever.  (I'm not, but it certainly seems like a good time to take a break for a few weeks.  Or months.  Or whatever.)

Jesus christ...you're seriously telling the new group of players in Warframe to form recruiting lines just to kill their lich?

Look we got lich trading, req mod trading, murmur farms, Lich trading, and now we need groups for "lich killings".

Might as well call us merchants jesus. No other system requires using that many chats to suceed.

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

1 minute ago, Remedyheart said:

In the end no one's bullying you. Potentially that one player is harming the other three. Quite literally by utilizing a Lich AI as a greifing tool. Which as we all know is unkillable so long as the owner takes no action.

So...now you can even consider the three "bullies" just trying to defend themshelves and their gameplay.

Why should three knees bend for a request when one refuses to kneel with the three?

Poison and toxicity start out small. Then eventually grows and ovescomes. This is the behavior mirroring non stab attempts. A bad idea stemming from bad players that is growing out of control infecting more.

Please leave me out of this and get out of my way then...

Nobody is griefing you from not killing their lich. Please explain how them not wanting to level up-die from- or farm mumurs from thralls is grefing. And again it's a public match why does said player have to listen to you in return? If you have to word it as bending the knee that's a very bad start. It's public matchmaking nobody has to listen to anyone in terms of anything as I dont know you and you don't know me. Telling a player to do something because you want them to isn't very productive. And them not listening isn't griefing in the slightist 

[Aldain]

Just now, EmberStar said:

The devs probably *can* track these kinds of metrics.  Based on the infographics they've made in the past for hype reasons, they can track things like how many of a given type of enemy players have killed.  It's likely that they can track Lich spawning (they'd wand to know if anything in the data is off, like if liches somehow never spawned between 54% and 65% furious or something equally weird.)  And they can almost certainly track how often people kill their lich vs dying to it or finishing the mission without doing either.

But until they choose to share such data, players are somewhere between "random guessing" and "pulling random numbers out of holes."

You're right, though we don't even know what metrics DE is actually measuring overall.

Currently it is all one big question mark we all have.

[Test-995]

2 minutes ago, Remedyheart said:

Jesus christ...you're seriously telling the new group of players in Warframe to form recruiting lines just to kill their lich?

Look we got lich trading, req mod trading, murmur farms, Lich trading, and now we need groups for "lich killings".

Might as well call us merchants jesus. No other system requires using that many chats to suceed.

Or solo, simply because that's more reliable and easier rn.

[DatDarkOne]

But it's a PUBLIC mission!   Open to everyone with RANDOM grouping.  It's only logical that everyone in PUBLIC missions will not feel the same.  

[EmberStar]

3 minutes ago, Remedyheart said:

Jesus christ...you're seriously telling the new group of players in Warframe to form recruiting lines just to kill their lich?

Look we got lich trading, req mod trading, murmur farms, Lich trading, and now we need groups for "lich killings".

Might as well call us merchants jesus. No other system requires using that many chats to suceed.

No, I'm telling the people constantly whining that "I can't kill my lich" to form a group.  Since they almost always follow up with how trivial it is to fight level 5 lich, it's super easy to farm for dozens of the kuva weapons, and dying constantly is irrelevant.

If you don't like how PUGs play... stop playing in PUGs.  if you can't be bothered to make the slightest effort to avoid PUGs, then would you kindly.  SHUT.  UP.

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

1 minute ago, EmberStar said:

No, I'm telling the people constantly whining that "I can't kill my lich" to form a group.  Since they almost always follow up with how trivial it is to fight level 5 lich, it's super easy to farm for dozens of the kuva weapons, and dying constantly is irrelevant.

If you don't like how PUGs play... stop playing in PUGs.  if you can't be bothered to make the slightest effort to avoid PUGs, then would you kindly.  SHUT.  UP.

You deserve a medal tenno 

[Aldain]

Ya know the funny thing I just realized?

This is just the Eidolon matchmaking debate in reverse.

For Eidolons it is "Pubs suck, find a group" but for this it is "Just solo if you don't want a group focused on killing Liches".

It is kind of uncanny how some things are fine for making premades but others are public matchmaking only in terms of perception.

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

Just now, Aldain said:

Ya know the funny thing I just realized?

This is just the Eidolon matchmaking debate in reverse.

For Eidolons it is "Pubs suck, find a group" but for this it is "Just solo if you don't want a group focused on killing Liches".

It is kind of uncanny how some things are fine for making premades but others are public matchmaking only in terms of perception.

Shhh it's logic 

[Aldain]

Just now, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

Shhh it's logic 

I know, that's why I'm dumbfounded that I just realized that we're actually in a debate within a debate within a debate -Inception Horn-.

Usually I pick up on that kind of thing faster.