Kuva Lich missions are a mess

[(XBOX)KayAitch]

I welcome the scaling - it's nice to have more high level content.

However, possibly due to its dynamic nature, a lot of the missions don't work.

Matchmaking is doomed once your Lich has levelled - at least on X1. You have no hope of anyone else with the same level Lich in the same area, so all these missions are played solo.

In Excavation the enemies scale but the extractors don't, meaning a single hit destroys them with an L5 Lich. They are rediculously fragile compared to the enemies, meaning you can't drop CC/defence for a millisecond - manageable with a team, but we're stuck in solo so tedious.

Defence has a similar problem - you have to be extremely diligent to ensure it doesn't get destroyed in a few hits. If the Lich spawns you're doomed, as some can one shot it, and the others seem to hang out far away, leaving you with an objective that you can't leave but an enemy you can't go kill.

Spy has a weird issue where sometimes no thralls spawn at all.

Forget about Interception missions.

Basically: Capture or Exterminate are your choices.

The chance of you Lich spawning seems erratic too - when I'm grinding the parazon mods (and didn't have the mods I'd identified yet) they spawn every mission, when I have all the right mods in the only untested order they just don't.

Seriously, I'm about 2 hours solid into mission after mission where all I get is Thralls with a complete parazon ready. 2 hours of lvl 120 enemies with no rewards (less than if I'd done the normal missions, thanks to the steal mechanic).

This needs tidying up:

- Objectives should scale with the level of the Thrall enemies, not the original mission node.

- If/when the Lich spawns the mission is going to be about them - suspend whatever the mission is until that fight it over, one way or another. Defence objectives become invulnerable and waves don't spawn, Interception points are disabled etc.

- If you wait to me match made it should ignore the Lich levels and match anyone on the same node at the higher level. If you're going against Liches you're going to be set for them levelling up anyway.

- If you've researched all 3 mods and have them in your parazon (in any order) then the Lich should always spawn. Anything else is boring.

 

 

[Ikusias]

thralls should drop Kuva again

[Undeceiver]

On 2019-11-22 at 2:17 PM, (XB1)KayAitch said:

- If you wait to me match made it should ignore the Lich levels and match anyone on the same node at the higher level. If you're going against Liches you're going to be set for them levelling up anyway

About most of the other stuff I have little to say. My experience is that defense isn't that hard but I don't disagree your point that the scaling should be done with the enemies. Survival seems to be good too, by the way. I tend to go for Survival and Exterminate, since Capture's objective takes too short to allow enough thralls to spawn and then you either extract with only 2-3 thralls or linger around looking at your feet until they spawn.

However, about your quote, are you sure this is not already how it works?? I mean, I do have a memory of going into a mission with my lich being level 1 and seeing level 120 enemies and then saying: "Oh right, this guy must've a level 5 lich".

[(XBOX)KayAitch]

11 hours ago, Undeceiver said:

Survival seems to be good too

Survival seems to do this thing where after the first 5 mins thralls stop spawning, I guess to stop getting all the murmers (a sussuration of murmurs?) in one mission.

11 hours ago, Undeceiver said:

However, about your quote, are you sure this is not already how it works??

I'm not. What I've observed (on X1) is that you get match-made pretty consistently when your Lich is lvl 1 or 2, then at 3 that drops off and at 5 I haven't been match-made once (despite playing many hours at 5 thanks to the issue where the Lich doesn't spawn for me to test the last permutation or two on).

11 hours ago, Undeceiver said:

My experience is that defense isn't that hard

I'm not sure hard is the right word with Warframe, but definitely unbalanced. If a heavy gunner gets in range of the defence objective while you're not there it's mission over. Easily fixed with a Khora, Frost or Gara, but (Gara aside) you're not bringing the high DPS you need when the Lich turns up.

The balancing would be better with a team, but that doesn't seem to happen with the matchmaking on X1

[Undeceiver]

On 2019-11-24 at 12:13 PM, (XB1)KayAitch said:

Survival seems to do this thing where after the first 5 mins thralls stop spawning, I guess to stop getting all the murmers (a sussuration of murmurs?) in one mission.

Oh, quite possible. When I said survival I meant until 5 minutes, then I extract. It's still pretty good in that it keeps me entertained, spawns a good number of thralls and is not annoying in any way that I've felt.

Edited November 25, 2019 by Undeceiver

[(PSN)navired]

same as me..

interception is very difficult to doing solo... n if the mission fails then all progress (murmur n relic) is lost...

exterminate, capture, sabotage, rescue, spy only spawn 3 thrall for me.

I've done it all for 5 hours with level 1 lich for farming murmurs. and the result for 5 hours it is 2 mod combinations.
but after 5 hours I realized that the 2 mod combination was not the correct combination.
and this is all just for the weapons and the chance to get ephemera. 😅

 

 

 

Edited November 27, 2019 by (PS4)navired

[(XBOX)KayAitch]

On 2019-11-25 at 8:47 PM, Undeceiver said:

Oh, quite possible. When I said survival I meant until 5 minutes, then I extract. It's still pretty good in that it keeps me entertained, spawns a good number of thralls and is not annoying in any way that I've felt.

Yeah, but survival with a time cap is basically just Extermination. Still, it works.

Weirdly I've found Rescue to be good, if risky - if you wait around a lot of Thralls spawn after you rescue the target. If you know the secret route into every prison they can be the shortest mission with the most murmers, but if the Lich spawns you'll be constantly resurrecting the target.

[Mr.Mist]

I agree with most of thing here. I also came up with a suggestion but i already comment it in other discussion

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1146922-kuva-lich-rework-ideas/?tab=comments#comment-11199873

The main thing i want to brought here is because of

On 2019-11-22 at 9:17 PM, (XB1)KayAitch said:

- If you've researched all 3 mods and have them in your parazon (in any order) then the Lich should always spawn. Anything else is boring.

My idea is a bit different because it is also meant to tackle other problem (abandon the lich). This also only solve the "I know exactly the requiem is"

 

to solve the "just need to figure out the order" problem. I think they can just add 1 kuva lich influence node per planet to have either higher or guaranteed Kuva lich encounter

 

23 minutes ago, Mr.Mist said:

New mission node (this WILL act as final encounter with Lich): Lair of the Lich. In this node, it is guaranteed to spawn your lich. to access Lair of the Lich, you need :

- Lich be at certain rank to have their own Lair (maybe Rank 3 or above to reduce re-roll abuse for drop list hunt).

- Do it Solo

- Cost Lich Rank *2000 Kuva to enter it (the number is tweak-able)

This mode, is basically Kuva Assassinate. You really need to check your parazon because getting wrong this time will terminate the contract. You fight the lich in the boss room Alad V Style, and try your parazon requiem. If you got it wrong this time. The lich will win and absorb the Kuva you brought in the mission cost. But if you win, you keep the kuva and the win drop as usual. This might be the hardest part because it is a new addition: After your dead, add button beside revive, which is give up/abort (or if they wont, you can just suicide 4x). Aborting will automatically go to Lose cut-scene and terminating your contract.

Here is the fun part, you know that Crimson branch room in the dojo? if a clan mate fail to kill their liches, there will be bounty placed there and anyone in the clan can seal a contract with it (1st claim, 1st get).

*Note: You can still encounter and Vanquish/Convert like in the current ways. This node will only act as a guaranteed Lich encounter/Abandon

 

Edited November 27, 2019 by Mr.Mist
Tidying up

[MixtheBlender]

 

I can solo survival 5 minutes, some defense, some disruption* (nox thrall was hard to kill in a short time), and rescue; BUT I CAN'T FOR THE LIFE solo excavation and interception. I really don't get it. Most of the kuva lich infected missions are not being done with solo by choice. I was forced to do them myself because the the way it was implemented. I prefer to do missions with a full squad to minimize death and the frustration of dealing with bullet sprays from 360 degree angle everywhere, especially lvl 5 lich missions, but no one joined mine.

I have not successfully solo lich infected interception, and I had an one hour lich excavation. What happen was my Khora's dome couldn't catch one of the further grineer shooters, and when I noticed it, boom excavator destroyed.

• One got destroyed when I I got one shot by bombard.
• One got destroyed when I got lucky that lvl 100+ stalker showed up and whipped my butt.
• One got destroyed when my lich boss spawn and I was too busy doing my fail attempt to get murmurs.
• Two more were sniped by far enemies.
• The mission was set public, and no one joined the entire time.

So yeah, there are mission types not fit to become lich infected if we are forced to solo.

[Flying_Scorpion]

I agree with you on almost everything except interception. Interception can be done solo, it's not that bad. It just requires moving around, and CC frames work well there.

Edited November 30, 2019 by Flying_Scorpion

[(XBOX)KayAitch]

8 hours ago, MixtheBlender said:

I can solo survival 5 minutes, some defense, some disruption* (nox thrall was hard to kill in a short time), and rescue; BUT I CAN'T FOR THE LIFE solo excavation and interception

 

6 hours ago, Flying_Scorpion said:

I agree with you on almost everything except interception. Interception can be done solo, it's not that bad

I find Interception possible with a dedicated CC frame, but instantly doomed if a lvl 5 Lich spawns.

Hijack and defence are over if you fail an attempt on the Lich, as your CC will dissipate long enough for the objective to die before you can finish the the Lich level up animation.

Survival and Extermination are consistent, Spy and Capture are erratic but usually OK, all the other missions best avoided.

 

[Ham_Grenabe]

Yeah, I stick with missions where the chance of failure is essentially nil: exterminate, capture, survival, spy. Failing a mission and losing the murmurs is not an acceptable risk (I once wasted a stab attempt on a mission that failed like that; lost a big chunk of murmurs and pointlessly leveled the lich). 

Edited December 2, 2019 by Ham_Grenabe

[Lost_Cartographer]

Ranks 1-3, I don't fail a mission unless I'm doing something horribly wrong.  Ranged-Frost my go to for solo interception (4 globes for nodes.)  I also found I only really need to maintain 2 points at all times to win.  Apparently our counter goes up faster than the enemy's?

Defense and mobile defense I tend to do okay, rank 1-3 liches aren't super spongy.  I like to bring out a specter to take off some additional heat from myself and the objective.

The only mission I don't really like doing is Hijack, largely because I'm trying to defend an objective that is bleeding out WHILE managing my shield energy.  Another mission where a specter helps immensely.

Spy is problematic in that alarms reset anytime you complete a vault without triggering an alert.  Thralls won't spawn without victims spawning, so I make a point of letting the drones know I'm about to steal their data just to keep the flow of bad guys going.

Overall, I'd say the liches have successfully accomplished what I didn't think could be done - get me to enjoy mission types I typically don't.  The easy stream of vapor specters for replaced rescue missions is super nice too.  They're a PITA to get otherwise.