Shields - How to Make Them More Viable

[Andele3025]

17 minutes ago, Tiltskillet said:

Augur set bonus got changed to work with existing overshields a little while back.

Apologies, i stand corrected, 3.1 patches ago it was fixed for the augur set (not for the aura tho for some reason).

[IgnisDraconis4316]

On 2019-12-24 at 12:18 PM, taiiat said:

i don't really care for your idea here, but it gives me an alternative idea - maybe Overshields should offer DR based on the amount of Overshields you have. (higher value, more DR ofcourse)
say like, 30% DR at max Overshields, linearly down to none when you don't have any Overshields.

as for Shields themselves, it always comes back to the same problem that there are dozens of Mods/Mechanics that work with Health to let you do extra things, Et Cetera. but almost zero for Shields. why do Shields """suck""" then? because there are almost no Mods to let you do interesting things with them.

Hmm..... Originally I thought about your idea. Some clan mates said that might be a little OP for someone like Hildryn but I have thought many times about that. 

As for mods for shields that offer Mechanics....... Your very right about that. Especially considering that companions are kinda in the same spot. Mediocre to just Meh mods. What type of mechanics/mods could you think of that would boost the use of Shields?

One interesting one is if there was a mod where, if shields go completely down you get a certain amount of armor as a survivability thing (kinda like Vex Armor). Or maybe a mod that allows you to reflect damage back on a target. What are your ideas?

[IgnisDraconis4316]

On 2019-12-24 at 12:35 PM, taiiat said:

the lack of any ways to affect the Shield Recharge Delay is another thing that Shields is missing in terms of Mods/Mechanics.

and you are just another person that thinks you're supposed to pick Health or Shields when it doesn't work that way. and the Shields that you get for free in this game significantly reduce the amount of Damage that you take as it is, you just are too angry at nothing to be able to recognize it.

I agree. There should be a way to lower the recharge delay or a overarching change to lower it to maybe 1.5 to 2 seconds of no damage to shields. Whereas right now they only recharge if you are not taking damage at all. 

I personally like shields or the idea of shields and on many frames I use Primed Vigor. Like Hydroid Prime. He has over 200 armor, 525 shields and like 300 health? I might have the numbers wrong. I usually put armor on anyone with over 200+ armor, and then I use Primed Vigor to get the shields to close to 1k and health to 5-600. There are ways to make shields work for you and I've tested it but you have to use the parkour system like made or use cover. Instead of like most players that wade knee deep into enemies and tank/spank.

But there has to be a way to improve them either with mods or with a change to how they function.

[IgnisDraconis4316]

On 2019-12-24 at 1:47 PM, Xzorn said:

It's similar but not quite the same as my preferred solution using a Deflective Shielding concept.

• Shields begin by reducing damage intake by 75%.
• When Shields are struck by an attack 10% of their damage reduction degrades over 4 seconds.
• If the player is struck again within that 4 second period another 10% will degrade after the previous has expired.
• Over 10 seconds of Shields not taking damage 10% reduction is restored to shields.

This helps prevent one-shots and plays into the "caster" style of play.
It allows a forgiving mistake to be made once in a while but is near useless to frames that take damage consistently ie Tanky frames.
It's essentially Health Conversion + Adaptation in reverse for Shields except this functions more fluidly not just instant stack gain and loss.

EDIT: Wanted to note these numbers are hardly set in stone and Shield Recharge mods could also ideally affect the recovery delay timer.

@Xzorn I really like this idea. Mix that with a change to Shield recharge delay to maybe 1.5-2 seconds of shields taking no damage would be ok. 

I hate that if your taking any damage at all your shields will remain off. At least in other games they will recharge if your dodging most damage.

[IgnisDraconis4316]

Loving the ideas. Keep it coming.

[taiiat]

1 minute ago, IgnisDraconis4316 said:

As for mods for shields that offer Mechanics....... Your very right about that. Especially considering that companions are kinda in the same spot. Mediocre to just Meh mods. What type of mechanics/mods could you think of that would boost the use of Shields?

One interesting one is if there was a mod where, if shields go completely down you get a certain amount of armor as a survivability thing (kinda like Vex Armor).
Or maybe a mod that allows you to reflect damage back on a target.

some potential Mods:

• a Mod to reduce Shield Recharge Delay.
  • a Nightmare Mod to reduce Shield Recharge Delay. this is a good opportunity to convert Fortitude and change out the useless Stat on it for Shield Recharge Delay. imagine how appealing that might look, a Mod for both Recharge Speed and Recharge Delay simultaneously.
• Shields Recharge at all times, but Recharge 80% slower than normal.
• taking Damage instead of resetting the Shield Recharge Delay counter, slows the Shield Recharge Speed by 30% for 5 seconds. stacks (so yeah, taking 10 hits would make your Shields basically not Recharge until some of these stacks wear off - but once your Shields start Regenning, they will keep going forever until they hit full).
• two types of Corrupted Mods that dramatically increase Shield Capacity / Recharge Speed, but significantly lowers the other.
• Shields gain 50% DR, loses 10% DR per hit for 5 seconds. stacks, can go negative. (basically helps protect you more against Enemies that hit only once in a while but does very little or maybe even less than normal for Enemies that attack quickly)
• Shields Adapt to incoming Damage, taking 5% less Damage per hit for 3 seconds(stacks), but reduces Shield Capacity by 50%.
• Shields are resistant to (a few different Damage Types), but vulnerable to (a few other different Damage Types). basically a corrupted version of the Elemental Resist Mods

just to name a few.
all values noted here were written as thinking of them as Final Multipliers.

 

 

hmm, i guess a buff on Shield break could be a useful Mod. not sure i want Armor, would prefer something more useful like DR or a unique effect, but still perhaps. depends on how/when you're allowed to get said buff, that is. we don't want dumb things like Equipping a Decaying Key to be an upgrade or anything, after all.

[selig_fay]

I'll just do what I have to do to push the imagination of the players.

[SixDimensions]

DISCLAIMER: this is just purely for visual representation of an idea I proposed before.  I personally do not think Shields need to be changed, I am merely addressing how they could be made more valuable.  I'm aware there are builds and mods and abilities and operators and blah blah blah that render shields either irrelevant (which is an issue) or boost them enough to be useful.  I just like doing the math.  So do not misunderstand and assume that I am advocating for shields being changed. This is just an objective analysis

So here is a basic breakdown of my proposition by applying damage reduction to shields (overshields not included) as a function of EHP (max DR of 50%).  I just selected a handful of frames with variable stats because an analysis on all frames would take forever

GREEN = highest value

YELLOW = second highest (Ash has two of the same)

BLUE = third highest

Analysis was done at base value for ehp and with either Redirection, Steel Fiber, Vitality, or combinations therein applied.  The analysis also shows the values before DR to shields and after.  What's most interesting is that with this DR in effect, the EHP across frames normalizes most around building for Redirection and Steel Fiber. This closes the gap on low EHP frames.  Second most interesting is the huge boost to Zephyr when building for Vitality and Redirection, almost closing the gap with Rhino and Valkyr.  Of course none of this takes into account warframe abilities that effect EHP or additional mods and how they effect it

Of course the max DR of 50% could be lowered, thereby bringing the outliers down from current tank frames (though mainly Zephyr will be affected by this)

Either way, please feel free to review the table presented.  If nothing else it might give you an idea of where your builds for at least these five frames can be altered under the current scope of things