I don't like the sentients (Edited)

[SordidDreams]

19 minutes ago, (PS4)reidy35 said:

You missed the point in what I said. Pay attention. "A varied loadout is the key to defeating sentients without using void damage". Key word there being varied. If you have different elements on your primary, secondary and melee, they won't be able to adapt to all of them.

You seem to have missed the point. Here, try again and pay attention this time: That's exactly why you use void damage. The thing about them is that even if you use damage types they are vulnerable to (mostly corrosive for their ferrite armor), they just adapt to them and cease being vulnerable. They go directly against your whole idea of different factions being vulnerable to different things.

20 minutes ago, (PS4)reidy35 said:

Last devstream it was mentioned that there are changes coming to armor shields, and... infested pathing. Shield changes seem to be that they're bulkier, and have a constant recharge. Armor, scaling is being toned down, and infested... will be faster, and hit harder. Going off memory.

Oh, that. This is like the third time DE have discussed such major changes to the damage system. I'll believe it when I see it.

21 minutes ago, (PS4)reidy35 said:

Mechanic wise I meant the procs of elements and such. Because there are a lot of under used options.

Yeah, because they're less useful than the ones that are used. Intentionally and by design.

22 minutes ago, (PS4)reidy35 said:

Consider the comparison of say... radiations effect to corrosive. That is a trade off. SIngle elements are always going to be less worthwhile than combined, because combined requires two mod slots to reach. Some singles however, do have potential, which currently is squandered by corrosive being an infinite debuff, and by far the most powerful due to how out of control enemy armor is.

Literally none of that is true. Radiation and corrosive are not a trade-off, the corrosive proc is just strictly better. Single element toxin is way better than anything else against Corpus on a high-crit, low-status weapon due to the way it bypasses shields. Even corrosive depends on your weapon; it's only good on rapid-fire guns that put out a lot of status. On slow-firing hard-hitters you're better off with viral and Hunter Munitions. Sounds to me like you still have a lot to learn about damage in WF.

[(PSN)grayscale358]

2 minutes ago, SordidDreams said:

You seem to have missed the point. Here, try again and pay attention this time: That's exactly why you use void damage. The thing about them is that even if you use damage types they are vulnerable to (mostly corrosive for their ferrite armor), they just adapt to them and cease being vulnerable. They go directly against your whole idea of different factions being vulnerable to different things.

 

The main factions are vulnerable to different things. The sentients are designed to adapt to damage. Having a weapon with corrosive, one with radiation, and another with gas can bypass their adaptation. That's what I'm saying. They adapt to corrosive, swap weapons. They adapt to radiation, swap again. Bam, they're dead, because their adaption is at a percentile gate. no matter what level they are, a battalyst will only have three adaptations.

 

11 minutes ago, SordidDreams said:

Yeah, because they're less useful than the ones that are used. Intentionally and by design.

Radiation, is not less useful than corrosive in the term of procs. Both have their value, except corrosive is incredibly overvalued, because of the out of control armor scaling. That's what you don't seem to understand. Bringing armor under control will allow for more varied builds. Whether we have to build for each faction or not, bringing armor under control will be a net positive to the games damage system.

 

11 minutes ago, SordidDreams said:

Literally none of that is true. Radiation and corrosive are not a trade-off, the corrosive proc is just strictly better. Single element toxin is way better than anything else against Corpus on a high-crit, low-status weapon due to the way it bypasses shields. Even corrosive depends on your weapon; it's only good on rapid-fire guns that put out a lot of status. On slow-firing hard-hitters you're better off with viral and Hunter Munitions. Sounds to me like you still have a lot to learn about damage in WF.

Corrosive procs are only 'better' because of the Grineer and their armor scaling. If you were fighting corpus, the radiation proc would be better, because most general corpus enemies have no armor, therefore making enemies attack each other is more beneficial than reducing something that they do not have. You need to actually read what I'm saying, and pay attention to it. I am making this as simple as possible for you.

Armor scaling = bad

Fixed armor scaling = good

More threatening  non-grineer enemies = good

Enemy dies quickly = not threatening

[SordidDreams]

Just now, (PS4)reidy35 said:

The main factions are vulnerable to different things. The sentients are designed to adapt to damage. Having a weapon with corrosive, one with radiation, and another with gas can bypass their adaptation. That's what I'm saying.

Well you're just plain wrong, because they can adapt to four different elements, so you're going to end up having to use void damage anyway. Again, you still have a lot to learn about damage in WF.

1 minute ago, (PS4)reidy35 said:

Radiation, is not less useful than corrosive in the term of procs.

If that were true, it would be used as often. It is not. That's what you don't seem to understand.

2 minutes ago, (PS4)reidy35 said:

Bringing armor under control will allow for more varied builds. Whether we have to build for each faction or not, bringing armor under control will be a net positive to the games damage system.

We've been through this. No, it won't. The whole point of the exponential armor scaling is to keep the factions mostly equal at low levels to force you to vary your builds in the early game, then cut down on the hassle and just let you get on with shooting people in the late game.

4 minutes ago, (PS4)reidy35 said:

Corrosive procs are only 'better' because of the Grineer and their armor scaling.

Well yeah. That's like saying a Ferrari is only fast because it has a big engine. Yes, it does, but that doesn't change the fact that it's fast.

5 minutes ago, (PS4)reidy35 said:

If you were fighting corpus, the radiation proc would be better, because most general corpus enemies have no armor, therefore making enemies attack each other is more beneficial than reducing something that they do not have.

They can't attack each other if they're dead, which they are once you attack them.

5 minutes ago, (PS4)reidy35 said:

You need to actually read what I'm saying, and pay attention to it. I am making this as simple as possible for you.

Right back at you. You seem stubbornly determined not to admit that you're wrong, just repeating the same debunked falsehoods over and over.

[(PSN)grayscale358]

1 minute ago, SordidDreams said:

Well you're just plain wrong, because they can adapt to four different elements, so you're going to end up having to use void damage anyway. Again, you still have a lot to learn about damage in WF.

So now you're insulting me? Wow. I apologized and explained my thought process before
And four elements? Sorry I made a mistake, but there's going to be at least one IPS type in there.

1 minute ago, SordidDreams said:

If that were true, it would be used as often. It is not. That's what you don't seem to understand.

What you don't understand, is that corrosive is only powerful, because ENEMY ARMOR IS BROKEN. If armor wasn't as insane as it is, then corrosive wouldn't be seen as powerful as it is. Think about it this way, if armor was fine, but shields were completely insane, toxin/gas would be the most powerful. Health? Viral.

1 minute ago, SordidDreams said:

We've been through this. No, it won't. The whole point of the exponential armor scaling is to keep the factions mostly equal at low levels to force you to vary your builds in the early game, then cut down on the hassle and just let you get on with shooting people in the late game.

Then why does DE add things like corpus Arbitrations, or Corpus Railjack? Or anything Corpus/Infested post starchart? Because armored enemies are the only ones who can pose a threat that late in the game. Why is the game not all Grineer if the other factions pose no threat?

1 minute ago, SordidDreams said:

Well yeah. That's like saying a Ferrari is only fast because it has a big engine. Yes, it does, but that doesn't change the fact that it's fast.

No. Its not. It's like saying This car is only fast under this circumstance, and other times its just okay

1 minute ago, SordidDreams said:

They can't attack each other if they're dead, which they are once you attack them.

They shouldn't be dead that quickly. They should be able to survive just as long as the grineer can so that they can pose an adequate threat to the player. That's the point. If things die too fast, they are not a threat. A player should be threatened by the enemies in the game. All of the enemies, should be able to pose a threat to the player, not one faction.

 

[JackHargreav]

50 minutes ago, (PS4)reidy35 said:

That's due to the armor type. Which Sentients should have a different variant of. Not just the same as Grineer. They shouldn't have weaknesses and resistances like normal enemies due to their adaptive mechanic, just like, everything does normal damage until they know what it is

Except void. That should remain hyper effective

I'm liking this idea.

[SordidDreams]

15 minutes ago, (PS4)reidy35 said:

So now you're insulting me? Wow. I apologized and explained my thought process before
And four elements? Sorry I made a mistake, but there's going to be at least one IPS type in there.

My post contained no insults.

IPS is generally so low as to be almost irrelevant.

15 minutes ago, (PS4)reidy35 said:

What you don't understand, is that corrosive is only powerful, because ENEMY ARMOR IS BROKEN. If armor wasn't as insane as it is, then corrosive wouldn't be seen as powerful as it is.

That's just a tautology.

15 minutes ago, (PS4)reidy35 said:

Then why does DE add things like corpus Arbitrations, or Corpus Railjack? Or anything Corpus/Infested post starchart? Because armored enemies are the only ones who can pose a threat that late in the game. Why is the game not all Grineer if the other factions pose no threat?

For variety, obviously. Though I do feel obliged to point out grineer are represented much more often than the other factions. There's no corpus or infested equivalent of liches, they have no presence in railjack, the infested haven't even received an open world yet, there are more grineer tilesets than corups or infested, etc. When WF first released, it contained only one faction, grineer. Grineer are always first, they're what the game revolves around, and the other factions are merely afterthoughts.

15 minutes ago, (PS4)reidy35 said:

They shouldn't be dead that quickly. They should be able to survive just as long as the grineer can so that they can pose an adequate threat to the player.

The grineer die quickly too if your guns are modded right. Again, that's the whole point. In late game you mod your guns for grineer so that they die quickly, and the other factions die quickly anyway because they're weak. That means you never have to change your build, which is a good thing because doing so is an annoying hassle.

Edited February 24, 2020 by SordidDreams

[(PSN)grayscale358]

2 minutes ago, SordidDreams said:

My post contained no insults.

"You still have a lot to learn about the damage in Warframe"

When I'm here trying to explain that enemy armor shouldn't be reaching insane points like it does.

2 minutes ago, SordidDreams said:

IPS is generally so low as to be almost irrelevant.

But it's still damage that a sentient adapts to. Use this to your advantage 4 health gates can easily be bypassed

2 minutes ago, SordidDreams said:

That's just a tautology.

It may be, but you still don't seem to understand that if armor is brought in line, or other factions are brought up to the grineer, other elements will become more viable. What is the problem with that? Honestly, where is your issue with Radiation, or Gas, or anything but Corrosive and Viral being powerful?

[SordidDreams]

2 hours ago, (PS4)reidy35 said:

"You still have a lot to learn about the damage in Warframe"

When I'm here trying to explain that enemy armor shouldn't be reaching insane points like it does.

That sentence contains no insults.

I believe that would be why DE are reworking it. Point is, grineer still need to be much stronger than other factions.

2 hours ago, (PS4)reidy35 said:

But it's still damage that a sentient adapts to. Use this to your advantage 4 health gates can easily be bypassed

Technically yes, but you're going to spend so much time whittling away at them with it to make that happen that you're much better off just using void damage to reset them.

2 hours ago, (PS4)reidy35 said:

It may be, but you still don't seem to understand that if armor is brought in line, or other factions are brought up to the grineer, other elements will become more viable. What is the problem with that? Honestly, where is your issue with Radiation, or Gas, or anything but Corrosive and Viral being powerful?

You seem to have mistaken my lack of agreement for a lack of understanding. I explained why I think the way I do like five times already. I don't want to have to swap builds before every mission, it's an annoying hassle. If you don't understand that, it's simply due to the fact that you haven't played the game long enough yet.

Edited February 24, 2020 by SordidDreams

[(PSN)grayscale358]

2 hours ago, SordidDreams said:

That sentence contains no insults.

I believe that would be why DE are reworking it. Point is, grineer still need to be much stronger than other factions.

Technically yes, but you're going to spend so much time whittling away at them with it to make that happen that you're much better off just using void damage to reset them.

You seem to have mistaken my lack of agreement for a lack of understanding. I explained why I think the way I do like five times already. I don't want to have to swap builds before every mission, it's an annoying hassle. If you don't understand that, it's simply due to the fact that you haven't played the game long enough yet.

Alright then. Explain to me why the grineer should be more powerful?

Why every element shouldn't be viable?

Why you are so opposed to everything being equalized, when the only content you'd really need to alter you loadout for is arbis, sorties, lich missions and railjack? There's no content in the majority where, if armor scaling is fixed and corpus are lifted up to be equal, having an element that differs from an enemies resistances would be overly impactful.

Arbis you'll be fighting one faction throughout, same with sorties. Lich missions is legit just corrosive, or lich weaknesses, and railjack, is likely an on mission basis, but you have the arsenal on the ship. Crossfires and events are different, but rare.

[SordidDreams]

18 minutes ago, (PS4)reidy35 said:

the only content you'd really need to alter you loadout for is arbis, sorties, lich missions and railjack

You mean only all the content I do?

19 minutes ago, (PS4)reidy35 said:

railjack, is likely an on mission basis, but you have the arsenal on the ship

If only it were actually usable and not just an inert decoration when the ship is out of dry dock...

[(PSN)grayscale358]

5 minutes ago, SordidDreams said:

You mean only all the content I do?

Arbis change hourly. Sorties stay for a day. Lich missions might as well be just corrosive missions until corpus liches are introduced. Surely you can change a weapons mod set up in an hour.

Quote

If only it were actually usable and not just an inert decoration when the ship is out of dry dock...

I tried to use the arsenal on the ship once in the dry dock and my entire game broke, so I never tried again. So that's new information to me. Thank you for telling me

Edited February 24, 2020 by (PS4)reidy35

[SordidDreams]

2 hours ago, (PS4)reidy35 said:

Arbis change hourly. Sorties stay for a day. Lich missions might as well be just corrosive missions until corpus liches are introduced. Surely you can change a weapons mod set up in an hour.

I can change a mod setup in a minute, point is I don't wanna. There's a good reason why many games discard certain elements of gameplay once they have no more fun to offer and just become a chore; fast-travel systems are a classic example. Reworking the Warframe damage system to force us to swap mods would be like reworking Skyrim to disable fast travel. Yes, there are mods that do that for the handful of masochists who enjoy it, but for the vast majority of players it's just stupid.

Edited February 24, 2020 by SordidDreams

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

Sentients are dope 

Their design is dope 

Their weapons and fighting style is dope

Maybe their scaling is a bit broken right now 

Considering they have HUGE damage HUGE armor and DAMAGE ADAPTATION they need a nerf 

But i still like their design

My fashion frame gauss is based on an amalgam betwee corpus and sentient technology 

[(PSN)grayscale358]

9 hours ago, SordidDreams said:

I can change a mod setup in a minute, point is I don't wanna. There's a good reason why many games discard certain elements of gameplay once they have no more fun to offer and just become a chore; fast-travel systems are a classic example. Reworking the Warframe damage system to force us to swap mods would be like reworking Skyrim to disable fast travel. Yes, there are mods that do that for the handful of masochists who enjoy it, but for the vast majority of players it's just stupid.

Then you can wait until whatever new meta is found, or create a setup with enough variation to be powerful against everything? A fast firing/attacking weapon with corrosive, a hard hitting crit weapon with high slash and viral, and then whatever else you want in slot 3. Mixing up your loadout is a net positive to the game. It means you won't ever have to alter your builds, you'll be consistently powerful, and Sentients will be kinda meaningless to you due to the variation.

[SordidDreams]

5 hours ago, (PS4)reidy35 said:

Then you can wait until whatever new meta is found, or create a setup with enough variation to be powerful against everything? A fast firing/attacking weapon with corrosive, a hard hitting crit weapon with high slash and viral, and then whatever else you want in slot 3. Mixing up your loadout is a net positive to the game. It means you won't ever have to alter your builds, you'll be consistently powerful, and Sentients will be kinda meaningless to you due to the variation.

Yeah, that's what I do currently. But if you and people like you have your way, the supposedly upcoming damage rework might run that. And the thing about sentients that makes them so annoying is that all other enemy types that require a specific build only require one weapon; sentients don't require a specific build, but they do affect the builds of all of your weapons (and you probably still end up having to use void damage anyway). And they're a PITA to fight.

Edited February 25, 2020 by SordidDreams