corrosive back to infinite duration, and remove impact procs

[CopperBezel]

1 hour ago, SaidTheRogue said:

But actually let's not get into that. If someone is gonna start down the road of logic in game design based on suspension of disbelief blah blah you may as well just uninstall every game from your PC. 

I know you thought I was referring to in-universe logic when I referred to old Corrosive being "magic", so it was purely by accident that you're the first person in this thread to have made an argument based on in-universe logic (that armor shouldn't be able to "grow back"). But @Grey_Star_Rival_Defender was quoting you talking about that when they posted the list of all of the other status effects that are exactly equally nonsensical in-universe but necessary for gameplay. So I kinda have to do it to you:

"No fair using logic against me! Only I'm allowed to use logic in this thread."

[GrimAtrament]

On 2020-03-06 at 12:32 PM, SenorClipClop said:

What things? Is it normal to multi-hit an enemy to whittle away their Armor, and then leave them alone for long periods of time?

i agree with this statement. 

 

On 2020-03-09 at 3:16 AM, Traumtulpe said:

Our armor is alive.

and made form the same materials as grenieer corpus and infested. also nanomechines exist. 

Edited March 11, 2020 by hazerddex

[SaidTheRogue]

Have you guys done content with enemies of about level 1 thousand? Sometimes, shiz happens. You're attacking enemy A, at SOME point a dangerous enemy gets a good shot on you, or you notice your life support just reached 6 percent, or this or that, so you have to stop and deal with more pressing matters. Come back to enemy A and the armor is back?

 

It's literally having to partially do the same thing again, as some of the damage that gets eaten by armor, wouldn't have been, the first time around. My objections partly pertain to time. Meanwhile some of you making jokes about logic seem to argue based on what you think Tony Stark would dream up.

Balance decisions should take into account actual gameplay and dealing with armor, repeatedly cuz it has a goddamned duration now, just doesn't feel OK. 

And yes I SUPPOSE that the universally hated impact procs (best thing ever, distant target laid flat on its back) can sorta be dealt with by workarounds such as bullet jumping upward to get a better top-down angle. 

But we shouldn't have to. Surely there could be something else.. 

[CopperBezel]

Anything that happens after about level 130 or 150 in the very extreme is kinda outside of the domain of what the game is balanced around. That landscape was massively changed by the new armor scaling formula, the changes to Corrosive Projection, etc. that were all made in service of the normal content of the game. What is meta against a level 300 enemy is always subject to sudden and dramatic change.

In the normal content, it doesn't make sense for any status effect to be set and forget because most enemies have a very brief TTK, but the ones that don't, bosses and the very toughest of heavies, need to be able to shake it off if you're not staying on top of them.

But yeah, I also just really doubt that you're running into the duration problem before you're running into the stacking problem here. 

[SaidTheRogue]

Your argument falls apart basically at very low and very high stages of the game. All this is fixed by just putting corrosive back to unlimited duration. 

[CopperBezel]

The low stages of the game where armor accounts for half of eHP or the high stages beyond the content of the game DE is interested in balancing for? 

Edited March 13, 2020 by CopperBezel

[SaidTheRogue]

answer to your question is as above: i said 'and' while you said 'or' *sigh* but, where do you and other ppl get this notion, a myth really, that DE doesn't balance for high level content?

there's a reason they allow enemies to reach level 10000. if they really wanted to keep things down low, they'd just make the max enemy level far, far lower. to be clear, i'm not proposing that they anywhere near balance for enemies THAT high, but saying that all their decisions and numbers are somehow only for stuff below lv50 or whatever simply isn't supported by things like all the power creep, min maxing, etc... and beyond that basically amounts to hubris.

only the devs can say what the devs do, and for what reasons. in other words, you cant. and much of your argument seems based on "well the devs intended XYZ" lets just stick with the practical applications.

corrosive having a duration suddenly, kinda sucks. impact causing mobs to go through all sorts of gymnastics sucks.

corrosive procs having a duration at low stages sucks because at that stage of the game, a player who'd generally be newer doesn't have the horsepower to kill off mobs quickly, so the advantage enjoyed by corrosive is time gated. time to kill and duration of engagement aren't the same thing. as previously mentioned, at lower and higher stages of the game, there's too much difference between player horsepower and enemy toughness, and the time gating effect provided by corrosive stacks falling off just serves as a proxy enemy in itself.

this has little or nothing to do with time-to-kill. no, it doesn't take long to kill an enemy for which you're appropriately geared. but do you just go from one enemy, to the next, to the next, perfectly in order without reversing, never deviating? i know that game, its called duck hunt. furthermore, does nothing ever go 'wrong' in your missions? do you never fat finger the wrong key? do you never get some unlucky RNG? do you never have an oh-S#&$ moment where you gotta bail and take cover or otherwise do whatever for a few moments to recover? meanwhile, your precious corrosive stacks just fell off. mechanical changes to an opponent shouldn't disappear not nearly so quickly.. meanwhile something like a radiation proc does/should (even nyx mind control has a modest duration for largely same reasons) since crowd control is one thing that shouldn't last long.

i'm starting to think you never go over lv60 or thereabout. what frames do you play? what are your rivens like? can you kill a lv300 target before it kills you? i mean if you don't understand yet (granted, i'm no poet) then i dunno what to tell ya. the problem relates to time, not raw throughput.

the issue with impact is obvious. they want more skillful play then make it hard or impossible in some cases to headshot due to the drunken dancing or being laid out on the floor etcetc? OK DE... and sure, just cuz something is moving around alot = skill needed, shuddup and take the shot, either hit or miss, right? but the point is that the movement from the procs is a BIT much and often results in a situation where you CANT get a headshot at all.

Edited March 13, 2020 by SaidTheRogue

[(PSN)Spider_Enigma]

let me ask u 1 simple question

where in the game do u actually need corrosive PROCS?

 

[Redfeather75]

25 minutes ago, (PS4)Spider_Enigma said:

let me ask u 1 simple question

where in the game do u actually need corrosive PROCS?

 

I think I understand what you are trying to say.

If I have corrosive on a weapon it helps against alloy amour too by stripping it.

[(PSN)Spider_Enigma]

1 minute ago, Redfeather75 said:

I think I understand what you are trying to say.

If I have corrosive on a weapon it helps against alloy amour too by stripping it.

but y do u need to strip armors on enemies that die instantly?

enemies that need armor stripped r imune 

[Redfeather75]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Spider_Enigma said:

but y do u need to strip armors on enemies that die instantly?

enemies that need armor stripped r imune 

I am pretty sure now that I don't understand what you are talking about. Sorry, I thought I did.

[(PSN)Spider_Enigma]

1 minute ago, Redfeather75 said:

I am pretty sure now that I don't understand what you are talking about. Sorry, I thought I did.

if  enemy dies in 5 shots, y do u need corrosive if ur using a grakata that fires 20 bullets instantly?

[SaidTheRogue]

weak enemies die fast, yes. some of us go higher.

[(PSN)Crixus044]

Here is a situation where logic and game mechanics meet at a crossroads. Logically, it makes sense that a virus makes you weaker ,but enemies get over viral infections (as will we all hopefully). It makes sense that cuts from a slashing item will bleed for a limited time, until clotting begins. It makes sense that people freak out when they have fire on them. It makes sense that heat makes armor weaker and damages those on fire, but a fire eventually does go out. It makes sense that poisons injure people and are eventually neutralized. It makes sense that a puncture wound makes enemies weaker (though I think there are still issues with the damage type). It makes sense that being cold will slow you down.

It makes sense that corrosion can weaken armor. Does it make sense that armor rebuilds itself? AH, here is the discrepancy. No, it doesn't really make sense, although there are modern day attempts of a self-healing armor. What then, is the reason for this? The answer is simply an attempt of game balance and mechanics. I personally believe that the current formula is flawed and a vast overshoot in the balance department.

I believe the idea of each proc having its own duration is ludicrous. The procs stack on eachother, so should their durations. The duration should be reset every proc, much like heat and old viral. Viral and Magnetic should also fall along these lines. It makes sense that any instance of damage is unrelated to the other, thus the duration of damage procs like slash should be independent, but percentage and total body effects like radiation, viral, corrosive, and heat should have duration resets. This would greatly help the feel of the status effect without affecting performance that much.

Should you be taking more than 10 second to kill any enemy? No, That's bad kps for any high end mission unless you are utilizing AoE and multihit. So infinite duration isn't really needed at all since you shouldn't rely on infinite time anyways. Duration resets allow you to maintain maximum effectiveness after an investment of reaching maximum stacks. 10 stacks take a while on some weapons. The least you could do is give them equal chance to reach peak performance