exalted melees need a rework

[(PSN)thegarada]

3 hours ago, (NSW)nabster666 said:

as for valkyr doing more damage, could you show me please? and i doubt most hysteria builds focus on strength. ive only seen builds focusing on efficiency and duration. please correct me if im wrong, because i only play valkitty with her 2

You are mostly right. First, you do not build around hysteria. It is a by product of building around warcry. Your goal is to get the skill to cost below 1 energy (before increase) wither using duration or efficiency. However you do need ability str. Makes a huge difference in damage. Every % in ability str. is full damage increase applied to all damage mods you have in the claws.

I think Valkyr claws are good, as long as you forma the claws, have at least 50% ability str. and energy cost base below 1. Many requirements, but should be a by product of building for warcry, beside formaing the claws. And above all, the claws are not meant to be open indefinitely. They are meant for short parses and primarily for the invulnerability. I use them mostly when I need invulnerability. But they can dish high damage real fast.

Probably not a popular opinion, I think Valkyr claws are the only exalted weapon that is in a good place. It is a powerful tool in your arsenal, but one with specific uses. However, most exalted melee weapons now suck, since the damage is not there, and if they offer nothing else, then they are obsolete.

Just now, (NSW)nabster666 said:

i know others need more attention but i hold a bond with those two frames. valkyr was my second frame after excalibur and i loved her and she is still a really cool warframe. and i main wukong, so i really care for these frames compared to, lets say nyx

Wukong now... not bad, but no good either. No melee damage modifiers, and IMO staff now is obsolete. 

Edited April 17, 2020 by (PS4)thegarada

[(NSW)nabster666]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)thegarada said:

You are mostly right. First, you do not build around hysteria. It is a by product of building around warcry. Your goal is to get the skill to cost below 1 energy (before increase) wither using duration or efficiency. However you do need ability str. Makes a huge difference in damage. Every % in ability str. is full damage increase applied to all damage mods you have in the claws.

I think Valkyr claws are good, as long as you forma the claws, have at least 50% ability str. and energy cost base below 1. Many requirements, but should be a by product of building for warcry, beside formaing the claws. And above all, the claws are not meant to be open indefinitely. They are meant for short parses and primarily for the invulnerability. I use them mostly when I need invulnerability. But they can dish high damage real fast.

Probably not a popular opinion, I think Valkyr claws are the only exalted weapon that is in a good place. It is a powerful tool in your arsenal, but one with specific uses. However, most exalted melee weapons now suck, since the damage is not there, and if they offer nothing else, then they are obsolete.

Wukong now... not bad, but no good either. No melee damage modifiers, and IMO staff now is obsolete. 

hmm, i think the fact that ur invincible kinda puts valkyr in a higher position. but i mod for her 2, a much more complex, and rewarding playstyle IMO. as a wukong main, im crying about what happened to his stick 

 

Edited April 17, 2020 by (NSW)nabster666

[(NSW)nabster666]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)thegarada said:

You are mostly right. First, you do not build around hysteria. It is a by product of building around warcry. Your goal is to get the skill to cost below 1 energy (before increase) wither using duration or efficiency. However you do need ability str. Makes a huge difference in damage. Every % in ability str. is full damage increase applied to all damage mods you have in the claws.

I think Valkyr claws are good, as long as you forma the claws, have at least 50% ability str. and energy cost base below 1. Many requirements, but should be a by product of building for warcry, beside formaing the claws. And above all, the claws are not meant to be open indefinitely. They are meant for short parses and primarily for the invulnerability. I use them mostly when I need invulnerability. But they can dish high damage real fast.

Probably not a popular opinion, I think Valkyr claws are the only exalted weapon that is in a good place. It is a powerful tool in your arsenal, but one with specific uses. However, most exalted melee weapons now suck, since the damage is not there, and if they offer nothing else, then they are obsolete.

Wukong now... not bad, but no good either. No melee damage modifiers, and IMO staff now is obsolete. 

in my opinion, i think acolyte mods and outright buffs will make exalted weapons viable again. i know its not about numbers but the logical thing is that a person would rather use a weapon that deals more damage and doesnt drain energy compared to a weapon that does

[Maxim_M_Payne]

Rework of Exalteds: Acceptable.

Removal of Exalteds: Unacceptable.

Removal of Exalted Weapons Having Their Own Unique Stances: Really, Really Bad.

"Rework" to "improve" them with the same competency shown to normal Stances: I'd really rather shoot my own fingers off.

[kevoisvevo]

On 2020-04-17 at 5:01 PM, Marine027 said:

Then ignore it if you think it is so bad, alot of frames have one abiltiy no one ever uses or onyl run one all day.

Alot still ahve it worse and Wukong still is better without it as you say, so move on, we have far more worse problems then some underpowered exaled weapons, cry me a river. Look at older weapons never getting a chance to get buffed with the borken Riven bandaid that should be removed.

Maybe wanna add Rviens to exaled to? Bcause you feel them to weak despite there other inbuild advantages? They are goddamn balance around a theme.

Wukong can do damage AND tank. Of course his damage has to be a gorund middle, the exaled weapons are not supposed to REPLaCE your equipment, jsut be an addition. Go play any meta weapon if your worse worry is the damage. Seriously.

All iread lately is how people want everything deal damage, even pure CC frames, we needa rework of the game mechanci and gameplay not give everything jsut damge numbers, playign for fun you know! DE itself and people like you ruin that,

I rather had far more problems fixed by now, incoduign bugs, gameplay, Rviens rather remvoed and weapons buffed on a decent level and frames which are in dire need of rework for years now and onyl gettign minor tweaks as mentioned.

Feeling better after that rant?

[(NSW)nabster666]

10 hours ago, kevoisvevo said:

Feeling better after that rant?

do u agree with him/her? 

[kevoisvevo]

5 hours ago, (NSW)nabster666 said:

do u agree with him/her? 

No

[KVenom]

В 17.04.2020 в 13:58, (NSW)nabster666 сказал:

since melee 3.0 exalted weapons are obsolete compared normal melee weapons, which doesnt make sense at all since exalted weapons drain energy and are a warframes ultimate ability. solutions to this problem would be to allow acolyte mods on exalted weapons. most melees are good because of blood rush or weeping wounds, buff exalted weapons damage or crit or status that need buffing. let exalted weapons run normal stances too and make it so exalted weapons' stances give you the same capacity boost like normal stances. lots of warframes have been heavily hit by melee 3.0. there is no point in using wukongs iron staff anymore since other polearms can easily outperform it. valkyrs talons does not do enough damage to compete with weapons like venka prime and gauss can do what valkyr can do but with  better weapons. this is a heavy blow since valkyr already needed a rework on her 3 (its stun is too short and it does about enough damage to kill lvl 1 enemies) and her 1 (which doesnt really provide enough mobility and its damage is quite low). 

 

You..... do realise Baruuk and Excalibur would be unable to profit from Blood Rush, since they don't use combo counter?
Usually everything dies before you manage to get close enough for that, and if it doesn't - then you are screwed, cuz those would be level 300 enemies.
So yah, I'd rather rework those weapons interaction with Heavy Attacks and Combo Counter first.
Like giving Ex.Blade's Heavy Attack a wave, akin to it's light attack, and enabling it and Desert Wind to get the combo counter from said waves on light attacks, albeit in a lower chance.
(Since combo counter chance exists now)
And only then I'd allow Acolyte mods there, but with some penalty. After all, those weapons are already quite powerfull if you increase you Ability Strength atribute.
That, and Condition Overload/Magnum Force/Heavy Caliber making those weapons absolute beasts.
A penalty like, say, a requirement to install some sort of special Forma or Adaptor into a slot in question to make that mod slot in Exalted Weapon compatible with Acolyte mods.
And make that Forma/Adaptor only obtainable trough some cool special hard test, with ~11% chance. Implementing said trial into an "Anomaly"(Murex outa Scarlet Spear) would also provide an opportunity to return Umbra Forma drop, since DE could make it a rare, ~0,9% chance Drop from completion of the trial. As well as to pack some other sentient/Ballas-related rewards in said challenge, in order to clutter the remaining chance window(around 88.1%).

 

[(XBOX)Onyx Schnee]

As someone who has played valkyr for years i can, without a doubt say this:

due to having the highest crit chance(tied with baruuk's 4.) and a..respectable status chance at minimum, her talons are more than capable of shredding apart heavy grineer up to level 140(this is the highest i can spawn in the sim....no AI is NOT off...been playing for 6 years, i know how the f---ing sim works...)

 

BUT. Like any and all aspects of this game, modding is important if you build for hysteria instead of eternal war.

Valkyr herself needs to be built for 2 things primarily: survival outside of hystera(this is done with two options: vitality and steel fiber, or the umbral versions...adaptation is required either way.) and efficiency(this requires 3 mods: primed flow or flow, fleeting expertise and streamline.) her hysteria augment will cover hysteria's range problems. and finally; rage(she doesn't need power strength for this build...don't see why since it's powerful enough as is.)

 

her talons now require a good hybrid build that can scale well: both sacrificial mods if you have them(not exactly needed, but useful) berserker and primed fury(yes.) two 60/60 mods for viral(this gives her somewhere between 20-30% status chance, at the speeds you'll be attacking, this is more than enough.) for that 325% damage increase. gladiator might(oddly enough, its either a visual bug or legit but i can red crit with her talons like this.) and drifting contact(to maintain your combo counter, boost your status to 28% and give you some hefty heavy attack dmg.)

 

this is the first time i've decided to share this build and it's been altered to keep my setup mostly unique, but allows valkyr[prime] to bounce in and out of hysteria while keeping her survival up. Rage will help her maintain energy(since you can soft shut off exalted weapons now without deactivating the power.) and immediately return to hysteria when energy is high enough to start killing and refilling her hp. if you let a heavy grineer shoot her, she can tank all it's damage for roughly 7 seconds before she dies. this is more than enough time for you to kill it first, enter hysteria and heal.

 

My playstyle revolves around not only maximizing hysteria's strengths, but banking on my valkyr prime's survival being pretty much unmatched by any enemy barring the tankiest from the arena and level 150+. even then, if you're using a decent weapon, even they won't survive long by comparison.

 

what's the takeaway here? exalted weapons are fine(have you SEEN mesa's?) i mean, exalted blade has been the king of them since melee 2.0 hit.

[Twilight-Knight]

Agree, the change make things weird. Obviously exalted weapon need some looks back. Exalted blade seem more powerful when artemis bow look weaker than paris prime.

[(NSW)nabster666]

On 2020-04-21 at 1:02 AM, KVenom said:

You..... do realise Baruuk and Excalibur would be unable to profit from Blood Rush, since they don't use combo counter?
Usually everything dies before you manage to get close enough for that, and if it doesn't - then you are screwed, cuz those would be level 300 enemies.
So yah, I'd rather rework those weapons interaction with Heavy Attacks and Combo Counter first.
Like giving Ex.Blade's Heavy Attack a wave, akin to it's light attack, and enabling it and Desert Wind to get the combo counter from said waves on light attacks, albeit in a lower chance.
(Since combo counter chance exists now)
And only then I'd allow Acolyte mods there, but with some penalty. After all, those weapons are already quite powerfull if you increase you Ability Strength atribute.
That, and Condition Overload/Magnum Force/Heavy Caliber making those weapons absolute beasts.
A penalty like, say, a requirement to install some sort of special Forma or Adaptor into a slot in question to make that mod slot in Exalted Weapon compatible with Acolyte mods.
And make that Forma/Adaptor only obtainable trough some cool special hard test, with ~11% chance. Implementing said trial into an "Anomaly"(Murex outa Scarlet Spear) would also provide an opportunity to return Umbra Forma drop, since DE could make it a rare, ~0,9% chance Drop from completion of the trial. As well as to pack some other sentient/Ballas-related rewards in said challenge, in order to clutter the remaining chance window(around 88.1%).

 

yes but wukong and valkitty will

 

[KVenom]

17 часов назад, (NSW)nabster666 сказал:

yes but wukong and valkitty will

 

Bruh, buffing those two while neglecting others is pretty much of a bad move.
We need to rebalance all Exalted melee weapons. Also please try reading other people's posts completely, instead of just skimming through.

Edited May 13, 2020 by KVenom

[(NSW)nabster666]

3 hours ago, KVenom said:

Bruh, buffing those two while neglecting others is pretty much of a bad move.
We need to rebalance all Exalted melee weapons. Also please try reading other people's posts completely, instead of just skimming through.

nah i read all of it bro and i never said we should only buff valkyr and wukong.

[(NSW)nabster666]

3 hours ago, KVenom said:

Bruh, buffing those two while neglecting others is pretty much of a bad move.
We need to rebalance all Exalted melee weapons. Also please try reading other people's posts completely, instead of just skimming through.

as for excal i think his waves should count as combo evenif it goes up less than normal. i dont know for barruuk sincew ive not got him yet

 

[KVenom]

В 13.05.2020 в 15:06, (NSW)nabster666 сказал:

as for excal i think his waves should count as combo evenif it goes up less than normal. i dont know for barruuk sincew ive not got him yet

 

His situation is same as Excal's. His waves are not counted to combo.

[Reppuzan]

Honestly, of the Exalted Weapons, the only ones with real performance problems are Wukong's Iron Staff and Hildryn's Balefire Charger.

The other Exalted Weapons have overtuned stats to justify their nature as special. Excalibur's 2 + 4 will obliterate literally anything in the game that's not status immune. Valkyr is invincible while using her talons and has massive crit stats to shred everything with a viral or corrosive build. Baruuk has amazing crit and status with Reactive Storm, goes through walls, and adapts to enemy weaknesses. Peacemaker has auto lock-on, amazing fire rate, and good base damage. Dex Pixia can be specced for huge base damage and will shred anything with the sheer number of status procs.

Wukong has... none of that. His auxiliary stats are honestly disappointing next to the other Exalted Weapons. They're great relative to starter melee weapons, but they're not special in any particular way. The animations on his stance are pretty janky, don't match up with your crosshairs, and have a lot of unnecessary pauses.

Hildryn's Balefire Launchers at least have the benefit of amazing base damage, but the explosion nerfs hit it hard. Hitting anything but a direct hit feels unrewarding and its auxiliary stats are atrocious. She's supposed to be the domina of armaments who brings the big guns to the fight. Yes, it runs off her virtually infinite shielding, but the awful fire rate, status chance, crit chance, and crit multiplier means that they simply don't scale well anymore.

Edited May 17, 2020 by Reppuzan

[Famecans]

On 2020-04-17 at 8:32 AM, Marine027 said:

Enemy dies, that is enough of a indicator for me, i not need ot turn any game in a #*!%ing math project. Even if the damge is higher it not changes how I or OTHERS play.

I envy your thought. 😅
I think that some players like me have a kind of Obsessive – compulsive disorder (OCD) in which everything needs to be updated and ready with maximum potential, everything needs to be experienced even if it does not involve math

[(NSW)nabster666]

On 2020-05-17 at 5:00 PM, Reppuzan said:

Honestly, of the Exalted Weapons, the only ones with real performance problems are Wukong's Iron Staff and Hildryn's Balefire Charger.

The other Exalted Weapons have overtuned stats to justify their nature as special. Excalibur's 2 + 4 will obliterate literally anything in the game that's not status immune. Valkyr is invincible while using her talons and has massive crit stats to shred everything with a viral or corrosive build. Baruuk has amazing crit and status with Reactive Storm, goes through walls, and adapts to enemy weaknesses. Peacemaker has auto lock-on, amazing fire rate, and good base damage. Dex Pixia can be specced for huge base damage and will shred anything with the sheer number of status procs.

Wukong has... none of that. His auxiliary stats are honestly disappointing next to the other Exalted Weapons. They're great relative to starter melee weapons, but they're not special in any particular way. The animations on his stance are pretty janky, don't match up with your crosshairs, and have a lot of unnecessary pauses.

Hildryn's Balefire Launchers at least have the benefit of amazing base damage, but the explosion nerfs hit it hard. Hitting anything but a direct hit feels unrewarding and its auxiliary stats are atrocious. She's supposed to be the domina of armaments who brings the big guns to the fight. Yes, it runs off her virtually infinite shielding, but the awful fire rate, status chance, crit chance, and crit multiplier means that they simply don't scale well anymore.

yes, but i think that valkyrs talons should still have abit more status. could it be that wukongs iron staff generates groundwaves that stun and deal damage overtime to any enemy that gets caught in the wave? not like excaliburs waves, but waves that travel through the ground ?