[The Outdated Parkour Thread] It Finally Happened! (Voice Your Opinion In The Poll!)

[rockscl]

if the spawner is a problem, then ask for it to be tweaked, dont blame it on the movement system, the same for extra time in missions, ask for extra creds, drop chances, etc, those things can be tweaked

Edited July 1, 2015 by rockscl

[ThePresident777]

There is no way that the OP originally advocated for nerfing coptoring in this thread because I would have never up voted that no matter how good the rest of the post would have been.  Also, the thread starter has a separate topic on getting rid of coptor that was written 10 months after this topic was started.

[(PSN)Gaelic-_-Flame]

There is no way that the OP originally advocated for nerfing coptoring in this thread because I would have never up voted that no matter how good the rest of the post would have been.  Also, the thread starter has a separate topic on getting rid of coptor that was written 10 months after this topic was started.

Are you sure? There are quite a few lines in there mentioning that directional melee and coptering needs to go, when new parkour is introduced. Sure it's not the main point in here, but you can clearly read that coptering and improved parkour can't coexist together.

Let tenno move fast and far with acrobatic parkour, instead of melee attacks meant to deal damage. It is entirely possible to bring new maneuvers and systems in place of aerial melee and copter to let players jump great distances just like they currently can with melee attacks.

 

 

on directional melee (also fits to coptering):

Wearing_socks says: "As it stands, directional melee has completely removed all need for any of the existing parkour elements. White streaks on the wall that show parkour is possible but they can be bypassed with directional melee. Using directional melee in these cases instead of parkour allows for angular travel, not like parkours vertical or horizontal only, faster travel, unlike parkour which is slower than even sprinting, and quicker recovery, unlike parkour which forces you into one direction for the entirety of the wallrun. Parkour is slow and unrewarding. Directional melee beats it out in every category."

 

Not only it provides loads of weird momentum, it doesn't function as good as it could for actual aerial melee purposes.

If parkour got better and therefore provided movement power similar to directional melee, DE should definitively tweak dir melee since it provides loads of unnecessary flight that just takes away your time and control.

Currently it is pretty hard to hit a flying enemy because they are usually moving and directional melee sends you off a long path of which actual melee part is very tiny and short. Also the actual swing often misses the target in front of you. DE wanted it to help "get to places" but ironically they did it so well that directional melee is now worse for actual aerial melee.

Every time you do it, it is helping you to "get to places" instead of killing flying enemies. Thanks... I guess? Wasn't parkour supposed to be used to "get to places"? I guess it's a wrong game, you have to swing your melee to move around here.

So basically we have this (just imagine it slower):

And I am suggesting this:

this GIF covers a melee while player is stationary in air

Falling down instantly would mean you can instantly get back to action and control your character. If player was previously in air and in quick motion, this attack would boost you where you're aiming but wouldn't add any extra momentum, leaving your speed and previous direction unchanged.That quick burst forward would ensure attacks are responsible and do their job. If enemy is further away, (hopefuly improved) parkour would be used to get closer and THEN initiate this attack mid air.

 

Moving around should feel natural and should flow smoothly if level geometry is jagged. There should also be less of these "magical" momentum gains so player would be encouraged to use environment to kick off and run on instead of just flying. However directional melee is a good excuse if done right.

 

 

8) Constant and quick butt sliding, coptering and aerial melee attacks used to move around are all breaking the feel of the game.

Veteran players get used to tapping crouch key to repeatedly gain free momentum and spam various melee attacks (which are usually meant to deal damage). The result is never something that looks fluid and satisfying. Ninjas are awkwardly slipping on every step and spinning with their melee weapons.

DE should reconsider changes to sprint speeds and stamina system. Sprinting in relays should be possible. Stamina can still be limiting for melee attacks, blocking and powerful maneuvers, but should work in a way to encourage sprinting and skillful player traversal using intuitive movement instead of melee attacks. 

Also rereading the post, I feel like DE did quite a good choice with the new system, because almost every example showed in this topic can be performed with the new wall jumping mechanic. They took a different approach, but the final result would be very similar, and maybe have even more control.

[ApoMaTu3aTop]

Great ideas! +1

[Aure7]

Yes I am kind of voting for copter removal but with this thread I am trying to encourage the most healthy approach to it. I was basically saying that we could really have the same thing but in a different skin and configurable by mods and balanced across equipment. It really could be just a "charge" jump that flings you across the map or whatever. It also could simply be a buff to sprinting and stamina removal (hey, just like they did now!).

 

Polished, fun and fast parkour comes first and after that some smart nerfs to copter and dir melee could benefit the game overall. (explained in the op)

 

I am pretty sure they said that with this new parkour 2.0 jumping mechanic, each jump grants you more momentum. After few of these jumps it shouldn't be nowhere as slow as they showed.

[ThePresident777]

Again, the OP was edited to add a call for the removal of coptor, AFTER I up voted it for the parkour improvements.  There is no way I would have voted for coptor removal no matter how good the suggested parkour improvements are.

 

Also, building up momentum is Stamina in reverse.  It's a speed limiter just the same.  Warframe is not a racing game, so players will be too busy shooting and using powers to build up speed.  Starting slow and eventually getting fast is slow.

[Thalahssalyst]

Again, the OP was edited to add a call for the removal of coptor, AFTER I up voted it for the parkour improvements.  There is no way I would have voted for coptor removal no matter how good the suggested parkour improvements are.

 

Also, building up momentum is Stamina in reverse.  It's a speed limiter just the same.  Warframe is not a racing game, so players will be too busy shooting and using powers to build up speed.  Starting slow and eventually getting fast is slow.

So your point is....

[(PSN)OMGITSNUKERXD]

+infinity and beyond

[(PSN)MikeCopa]

+1 we need more threads like this

[unknow99]

Again, the OP was edited to add a call for the removal of coptor, AFTER I up voted it for the parkour improvements.  There is no way I would have voted for coptor removal no matter how good the suggested parkour improvements are.

 

Also, building up momentum is Stamina in reverse.  It's a speed limiter just the same.  Warframe is not a racing game, so players will be too busy shooting and using powers to build up speed.  Starting slow and eventually getting fast is slow.

Mr president, if you give me the permission to ask you something, you already suggested something really important in your post :

 

"Warframe is not a racing game."

 

Furthermore mr president : the loss of coptering can be counter balanced by an overall increase of all the usual moves...

 

Thank you for taking the time to read my reply, mr president.

[Basilisk1991]

If DE had bother polishing Copetering and balancing it better I wouldn't hate it nearly as much as I do now. For one the animation for coptering is the exact same as the normal slide and sliding melee, the body and feet even remain parallel to the ground throughout the entire animation. I'm not saying they needed to spend weeks handcrafting a unique animation for every weapon available, just a bit of polish would make it less stupid looking IMO. Also the lack of consistent baseline for coptering means that unless you specifically select a given melee weapon for it (E,G, the Tipedo) you're basically wasting time even trying it.

[StonedMakak]

If DE had bother polishing Copetering and balancing it better I wouldn't hate it nearly as much as I do now. For one the animation for coptering is the exact same as the normal slide and sliding melee, the body and feet even remain parallel to the ground throughout the entire animation. I'm not saying they needed to spend weeks handcrafting a unique animation for every weapon available, just a bit of polish would make it less stupid looking IMO. Also the lack of consistent baseline for coptering means that unless you specifically select a given melee weapon for it (E,G, the Tipedo) you're basically wasting time even trying it.

 

It was convenient. They didn't have to focus on improving movement in the game, because an unintentional bug provided players with ridiculously fast traversal option. Now that they do have the time, it's going away. The only mistake DE made, IMHO, is acknowledging it a something cool that is here to stay. That's why he have people screaming betrayal now.   

 

In a weird way, the wall hopping is this refinement to coptering. Geoff said that we will built momentum with each successful jump. I think we will be able to achieve a comparable speed but it will require more engagement that just a combination of three buttons.  

[ThePresident777]

In racing games, speed has to be built up.  In racing games, cars become difficult to control as speed increases.  That is why Warframe is not a racing game.  It does not warrant or require loss of control with speed increase or speed build up.  That was obviously implied by my post.

Edited July 6, 2015 by ThePresident777

[rockscl]

In racing games, speed has to be built up.  In racing games, cars become difficult to control as speed increases.  That is why Warframe is not a racing game.  It does not warrant or require loss of control with speed increase or building up speed.  That was obviously implied by my post.

 

lies, in warframe you build your speed, you have to time what you are doing and mod accordingly for the speed you want under the conditions you want, and most players are smacking their head against walls without even attempting to chain slingshots, so its also more difficult to control the faster you go, and btw what is obvious for you is a little segment in a minority, so write it solidly or it doesnt exist

[Basilisk1991]

It was convenient. They didn't have to focus on improving movement in the game, because an unintentional bug provided players with ridiculously fast traversal option. Now that they do have the time, it's going away. The only mistake DE made, IMHO, is acknowledging it a something cool that is here to stay. That's why he have people screaming betrayal now.   

 

In a weird way, the wall hopping is this refinement to coptering. Geoff said that we will built momentum with each successful jump. I think we will be able to achieve a comparable speed but it will require more engagement that just a combination of three buttons.  

 

The fact it started as a bug kind of ties into my issues with the wonky scaling and the animations, IMO directional melee should have just outright replaced coptering to begin with since it's a similar idea (A quick mid-air dash centered around your melee weapon), it's easier to execute (Point your camera & press E) and overall it fixed both of my issues with coperting. The animation looks much better (Outside of the longer weapons looking a bit dumb when performing it), it's more consistent in terms of distance traveled regardless of weapon equipped, and it even fixes another issue I've noticed since then and that is the fact that the button-input is much simpler and far more reliable.

 

If I may go on a slight tangent, I do have one small issue with DE's very open and transparent development environment it's the fact that they'll implement stuff like this "by fan demand" but once it becomes a issue and they have to address it those initial fans who demanded it in the first place kind of feel screwed over.

[StonedMakak]

The fact it started as a bug kind of ties into my issues with the wonky scaling and the animations, IMO directional melee should have just outright replaced coptering to begin with since it's a similar idea (A quick mid-air dash centered around your melee weapon), it's easier to execute (Point your camera & press E) and overall it fixed both of my issues with coperting. The animation looks much better (Outside of the longer weapons looking a bit dumb when performing it), it's more consistent in terms of distance traveled regardless of weapon equipped, and it even fixes another issue I've noticed since then and that is the fact that the button-input is much simpler and far more reliable.

 

If I may go on a slight tangent, I do have one small issue with DE's very open and transparent development environment it's the fact that they'll implement stuff like this "by fan demand" but once it becomes a issue and they have to address it those initial fans who demanded it in the first place kind of feel screwed over.

 

Well I don't know, if it's been posted yet, but apparently DE reads your mind.

 

Bulletjump:  https://twitter.com/sj_sinclair/status/618979291355856897

 

My best guess that it is intended for those long stretches of open space, where you can't easily pin-pong off the walls. Seems like combining air melee with double jump will give you more horizontal velocity, similar to that refined directional melee you describe. Hope it's not how new air melee acts by default, because it'd be nice if it actually hit things. 

 

Also, I hope wall hopping creates more momentum than this, otherwise parkour will again be outshined, this time by air dashing. But I doubt it, the distance it covers seems reasonable. 

 

Edit: Oh you're right about that last part. Downsides of very open approach to your playerbase I guess. 

Edited July 9, 2015 by tisdfogg

[unknow99]

Another example of bullet jump :

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/3cmval/bulletjumptm_double_jump_we_can_still_fly_around/

 

(inb4 people laugh at bullet jump's acronym...)

[StonedMakak]

Another example of bullet jump :

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/3cmval/bulletjumptm_double_jump_we_can_still_fly_around/

 

(inb4 people laugh at bullet jump's acronym...)

 

Indeed, forums are about to get really weird.

 

Inb4 "More complains about coptering removal? OMG, learn to BJ you scrub!"

 

If any mod reads this, I deeply regret that joke.

 

[Basilisk1991]

Another example of bullet jump :

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/3cmval/bulletjumptm_double_jump_we_can_still_fly_around/

 

(inb4 people laugh at bullet jump's acronym...)

 

Hey I like Bon Jovi...I kid I know exactly what you mean. I'm just looking forward to the whole system being way more open-ended in terms of being able to easily link together moves.

 

Also just so we're clear a Bullet Jump is just the jump from a slide combined with a second jump at the top of the arc right, kind hard to tell from the pixelated GIF.

[unknow99]

Hey I like Bon Jovi...I kid I know exactly what you mean. I'm just looking forward to the whole system being way more open-ended in terms of being able to easily link together moves.

 

Also just so we're clear a Bullet Jump is just the jump from a slide combined with a second jump at the top of the arc right, kind hard to tell from the pixelated GIF.

Bon Jovi huh? How didn't I think of this? Let me steal that good one... :p

Edited July 22, 2015 by unknow99

[unknow99]

I made a thread to raise awareness about what their Parkour 2.0 might miss :

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/494478-parkour-20-is-comingyay-but-hold-onmoves-20/

[Thalahssalyst]

Aure, how do you feel with this upcoming change on general movements?

[Aure7]

Hype booooyyzzz 

www.twitch.tv/Warframe

Edited July 24, 2015 by Aure7

[Deidaku]

Hype booooyyzzz 

www.twitch.tv/Warframe

It looks sooo goood don't you think :)

 

the bullet jump/rocet jump looks awesome

[Aure7]

The only few things that still worry me are:

directional melee as a combat tool since it wastes a lot of time now and has poor hit detection. (more in op)

kinda goofy aim glide animation, could be a bit more vertical sometimes

no mentions of charge jumps and vault improvements (but they both were talked about previously, so shouldn't be a problem)

and @(*()$ butt scooting still seems extremely viable and important to move around :(

...and just basically few minor animation quirks that could get polished soon anyway. (more about that in animation thread)

 

That's an incredibly short list when compared to the entire original thread of problems and requests.