[The Outdated Parkour Thread] It Finally Happened! (Voice Your Opinion In The Poll!)

[unknow99]

No they did not. They went back and looked at AI shooting precision, and all the whinge threads on "the AI is now aimbotting" and decided "hey, you know what? we will throw an extra variable in with player movement speeds, so when they get sniped across the map, we can blame THEM for standing still"

Wow, harsh.(you're just tooo harsh everytime you give feedback man! :p )

...But it can be possible.

 

Did everyone see the last stream? Momma Lotus tried to wallclimb again (in the hubs) and it also clearly showed that we got a problem with parkour(smoothness,accuracy,angles)...(she managed to succeed, after dozens of tries.Geoff plz)

Edited November 30, 2014 by unknow99

[DSpite]

Wow, harsh.(you're just tooo harsh everytime you give feedback man! :p )

...But it can be possible.

 

Did everyone see the last stream? Momma Lotus tried to wallclimb again (in the hubs) and it also clearly showed that we got a problem with parkour(smoothness,accuracy,angles)...(she managed to succeed, after dozens of tries.Geoff plz)

 

Sorry. I'm old and jaded.

 

I don't know for sure, but I did see a ton on complaints on enemy AI accuracy, which I tested as best as I could and found not to be a noticeable change, and I fully agree that this "move to dodge" is a step in the right direction.

 

You can now technically hit us with less enemies, and we would have a reason to move around. I mean, why dodge Flux Rifle fire, when you KNOW it's un-dodgeable?

 

One thing I would like to add to the Parkour thing, is that although I still don't agree with many things here, air melee is currently ... OP is the only stupid word that comes to mind. I was on a tile and thought "hey ... I can hop HERE and then hop THERE" then discovered I could just hop THERE and bypass the HERE bit with a heavy weapon.

 

It's Super Jump and Worm Hole in one, kinda. I mean, it's great fun to experiment with, but the distances it gets are a little insane.

 

If DE tweaked the mechanics to allow far greater control of chaining wallrunning and Air Melee it would be kinda interesting. Maybe it's just me, but launching myself into walls, I can't get a decent "sticking" most of the time. I think it's what the game thinks is a "valid wall" or something.

 

Needs more testing.

Edited November 30, 2014 by DSpite

[DarkSlayer220]

Yes, Parkour is cool but making an animation and how/when/where it should be triggered is the hard part... I bet There will gonna be a lot of glitches and it'll take a a lot of fixes before it looks perfect. :)

[unknow99]

Sorry. I'm old and jaded.

 

I don't know for sure, but I did see a ton on complaints on enemy AI accuracy, which I tested as best as I could and found not to be a noticeable change, and I fully agree that this "move to dodge" is a step in the right direction.

 

You can now technically hit us with less enemies, and we would have a reason to move around. I mean, why dodge Flux Rifle fire, when you KNOW it's un-dodgeable?

 

One thing I would like to add to the Parkour thing, is that although I still don't agree with many things here, air melee is currently ... OP is the only stupid word that comes to mind. I was on a tile and thought "hey ... I can hop HERE and then hop THERE" then discovered I could just hop THERE and bypass the HERE bit with a heavy weapon.

 

It's Super Jump and Worm Hole in one, kinda. I mean, it's great fun to experiment with, but the distances it gets are a little insane.

 

If DE tweaked the mechanics to allow far greater control of chaining wallrunning and Air Melee it would be kinda interesting. Maybe it's just me, but launching myself into walls, I can't get a decent "sticking" most of the time. I think it's what the game thinks is a "valid wall" or something.

 

Needs more testing.

Yeah, directional melee was added as a way to deal with flying enemies when we go sword alone : Ok,it works as intended.

They give it a mobility purpose : okay, but an area this big?Wow this might destroy other movements (especially zorencoptering.When I first saw it,I thought that it'd give them a way to replace it.)...

 

On-topic : I made a thread with ideas about ledges mechanic, for those interested. :)

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/355484-moves-20-ledge-mechanics/#entry3954527

Edited November 30, 2014 by unknow99

[Qynchou]

Theres 1 problem with this whole thing - delay and hosting.

 

Theres always going to be massive delay with things like these because of P2P hosting.

 

Transitioning between parkour animations, controlling direction of wallrun etc etc will always be problematic with P2P hosting.

[taiiat]

Transitioning between parkour animations, controlling direction of wallrun etc etc will always be problematic with P2P hosting.

Client movements are not scrictly determined by Host.

 

if they were, you would have trouble even walking because you would need to 'OK' your planned movement with the Host.

[ThePresident777]

I keep hearing that directional melee is ooo lala, but, I've had no such luck with it except in Archwing.  I think the real reason for directional melee is Archwing.  The distances are too long, the areas are too wide open, and 3D can be very disorienting, for melee without directional melee.  But, either way, it's for melee.  You can't cover long empty stetchs with directional melee because it's empty, there is nothing to melee.  Unless, I just don't know how to directional melee the empty air.

[RSITH]

Fist Bump?

[Lukap99]

I keep hearing that directional melee is ooo lala, but, I've had no such luck with it except in Archwing. 

 

What?

Are we talking about the same directional melee here?

[dashashou]

DE has show their intent with  there maps ,  their new maps  -  no longer are they designing  the're levels  with player focus in mind   look at  the infested maps where we can  copter between a few ledges , and  that 's pretty much it ,  or  the new ice map , where  you can't use the ice walls as a movement tool , and  there's no real cleaver parkour spots   sadly  the new maps are design to hamper players , and taking away our combat  mobility  

 

And with  the new mission types coming out it's becomes all about def , in various types  - interception , excavation , even void sabotage  which is just run to a point then defend  a point then kill a boss.  

 

there focus has become  reduction on player agency on reducing they way players can rush maps  and  to design their new maps  to  make it so  that a skilled  player can't speed parkour  through there maps  in less than there expected time frame  even  the added updates to the maps are just  trigger switch slows ,  all design to hamper 

 

and the direction air  was it added as a melee feature?  or was it added as hard cap to  our ability to further parkour . It's in a way it 's what auto  vault did to our ground parkour 

[(PSN)KaxMcc]

Since DE has said that they're going to look at parkour and this thread will inevitably be looked
at I just want to give my spiel on what changes I think should be made. I may end up treading over
already covered ground but, whatever, I'm in the mood to ramble.

 

Let the rambling begin!!!

 

An ideal parkour system for warframe needs to be able to do a couple of things. It needs to be
entirely skill based with a decent skill ceiling, it needs to offer a wide range of control, It
needs to use the least amounts of input possible without hindering control, It needs to mesh well
with gunplay, and it needs to mesh well with various environments.

So, lets talk skill. To begin with, skill based gamepay needs a definitive win state and fail
state. In the context of Warframe the win state, in concerns to movement, should probably be
evasion. And the fail state can be, of course, taking damage. So, we then have to ask how do we
allow players to move towards the win state? Players can control positioning and speed through
movement and since Warfame isn't a cover shooter lets go with speed. So the goal would be to craft
a system that allows players to increase their speed and subsequently decrease their chances of
taking damage through skillful execution. Which brings me to my first change.

 

Acceleration. Allowing players to accelerate would give them a clear goal in concerns to movement.
Go fast and stay fast. Players wol be presented with various obstacles to overcome through vaults
jumps and so forth. Player would be able to use the layout to their advantage to keep momentum.
Gunplay  would become increasingly difficult to perform at higher speeds but would never become
impossible. And allowing certain actions to maitain momentum while punishing others(within reason)
would increase the relevancy of parkour related movements.

So, accelerating to top speed and maintaining would be at the core of parkour related gameplay
but how should speed increases and decreases be handled? And how can we offer a various number
possible movement paths Without over complicating inputs?

 

As far as parkour movements go, the player needs to be able to control four basic movement types.
Horizontal direction, parkour up, parkour forward, and parkour down. Keep in mind that "parkour X"
can mean jumps, vaults, wall ruhs etc. I'm going to put each movement type into its own section
and cover all of these movement types in order

 

Running, Jumping and Horizontal direction

 

**Rambling Intensifies**

Basic WASD or an analog stick can control horizontal movement on the ground and can set the
trajectory for jumps initiated from the ground. But as of right now horizontal movement cant not
be controlled when jumping from a wall run. This is due to the fact that the directional movement
input is occupied throughout the wall run. I would suggest that during wall runs the player would
jump off in the direction that they are currently aiming. since aiming is controlled with the
mouse/right analog lining up a jump off of a wall run would require the same type of reflexes as
aiming and shooting. It comes with the drawback that players wont be able to consistently stay on
target while wall hopping but players with good reflexes should still be able to score hits while
on each wall and in midair. As I mentioned above running should cause the player character to
accelerate but it's important to restrict it somewhat so that players don't take advantage of the
movement system. Sharp turns of more than 60 degrees or more should reduce movement speed and
total 180s should reset movement speed to base. Actions like jumping and sliding should maintain
speed whilst collisions and improper landings should nullify it. A proper landing would be the
standard roll that we currently have. This should be able to be done manually via pressing the
jump key right before landing. Otherwise the player should stick the landing and speed should be
lost. Proper landings should decrease speed as well but to a less extent. Also, this thread
mentions that being able to charge your jump by holding and releasing would allow for more
controlled vertical movement and I'm inclined to agree.

Sliding and coptering

Sliding should NOT give free momentum. Sliding comes with the benefit of being able to fire whilst
maintaining momentum when grounded and it can also transition well into various other parkour
moves. Coptering should provide a boost of momentum but it should reset speed to base upon
completion. Coptering should also be able to transition into all other parkour moves such as vaults
wall runs and so forth without momentum loss so that it can be useful as a transitional tool in
parkour. It will still also be spammable for the people who enjoy that style of movement. It will
provide a brief moment of high speed movement but should not be as fast as the max speed that can
be reached through acceleration. This is because max speed offers total evasion to incoming fire
from enemies perpendicular to your movement path. Coptering is both and attack and a high speed
movement so if it offered total evasion as well it would harbor no drawback and could eclipse
parkour entirely. But that doesn't mean coptering has to be useless. It's movement speed would
still reduce incoming damage just not offer total evasion.

I'm not really spun up on how coptering players like to play or how they would like their
playstyle to be improved upon. If this change is somehow game breaking let me know and I'll
attempt to come up with an alternate solution.

Vaulting

Vaulting as of now is very basic and I currently have it disabled because it can interfere with
jumping. I think forward vaulting should be handled using the context action key. When vaulting
anything while sprinting there should be two separate vault types regular and perfect. A perfect
vault should trigger if the player presses the key right before impact whereas the area before that
would trigger a regular vault. Perfect vaults should reward players with extra speed.

 

Forward

 

Forward vaults should only occur when the player is sprinting and pressing in the direction of the
object to be vaulted. Short vaults(to jump over and fall or jump over and hang) should be
performed when not sprinting. Context actions should take priority and should always trigger over
vaults when the player is not moving. Since you need to be moving to vault anyways there shouln't
be much of an issue with the two interfering with each other.

 

Downward

 

downward vaults can be performed by holding the crouch key and performing a vault same as above.

 

Upward

upward vaults are a little trickier. I don't want to add an extra input but binding it to the jump
key would result in it interfering with the jumping. So I came up with two possible solutions. It
can either have an option to bind it to the jump key for those who don't mind it. Or it can be
performed by holding the jump key and pressing the context action key. This could get a little
funky for controller players but if they switched reload and context action it could work.

 

Wall Running

Wall running can work in a number of ways whether it be resulting in an arc due to gravity taking
effect or the classic infinity run that we currently have. I'm more inclined to the former due to
the fact that it limits the wallrun and forces players to keep hopping between walls to keep their
verticality. Now, players shouldn't drop as fast as they do in midair but they should  be forced
to the ground steadily maybe at about half or a quarter of the speed(possibly make a new stat for
grip to increase wall run/wall grab effectiveness via mods).

 

 

Horizontal

Players should be able to initiate a wall run in a couple of ways. Horizontal wall runs should
initiate by simply colliding with a wall in midair at the right angle. If the player collides with
the wall while they are pressing in the direction of the wall the wall run should initiate.
The run will sustain while the player continues pressing in any direction and the player will fall
when all directions are released. Initiating a wall run should maintain speed and wall ejects should as well.

Vertical

 

vertical wall runs should only be able to be initiated when the player collides with the wall at
the correct angle and whilst moving upwards significantly. When a player collides with a wall at
about 90 degrees without significant upward movement they should hit the wall and lose
momentum.Since the player is not moving horizontally when initiating a vert wall run, they should
be able to move horizontally by pressing in either direction and fall off the wall by pressing in
the direction opposite to the wall. That way vert wall runs aren't locked into going straight up.

Diagonal

 

I think that there should definitely be a threshold for diagonal wall runs. Hitting the wall with
both a significant amount of upward movement and significant amount of forward movement should
result in a wall run that moves upwards diagonally. The run can either peak and return back
downwards at roughly the same angle or you could implement it so that it levels out into  a
horizontal wall run. Controls should work the same as Horizontal wall runs due to the predetermined
horizontal movement.

Wall ejects

 

I mentioned directional wall ejects above but I wanted to re touch on the subject. Whilst engaged
in a wall run the player should be able to hit the jump button to jump in whatever direction they
are aiming. When aiming anywhere away from the wall they are currently on they can simply project
themselves in that direction. But if they aim towards the wall they are on they should still be
able to jump just not in the same way. When they aim towards the wall they should kick off
parallel to the wall but at whatever angle they specify. Since the player pushes away from the
wall slightly they should not be able to re-engage the same wall before hitting the ground. But it
would be a good way to get that little extra push to get to hard to reach places.

side note : When a player hits a wall at 90 degrees in midair and loses their speed they should
react based on how fast they are going. At significant speeds they should hit the wall and bounce
off without the chance to jump. If the incoming speed is reasonable, though, they should be able
to hit the wall and  jump off.

 

I don't really need to go into gunplay since that is pretty self explanatory. The increasing speed
as well as the difficulty of precision aiming in midair and whilst wall running will ensure that
combat will not be too easy while maintaining speed. And all I can really say about level design is
that it has to be made with parkour in mind not in one or two spots but in ALL tiles. The tiles
should scale in difficulty as well as the enemies.

Well that's my whole spiel. I didn't cover other parts of parkour like ledge climbing and stuff
but I'll come back and edit that in later. I've been typing this for too long.

Edited December 5, 2014 by (PS4)KaxMcc

[Volume]

snip

 

Very nice, well-said, upvoted

[Aure7]

Since DE has said that they're going to look at parkour and this thread will inevitably be looked

at I just want to give my spiel on what changes I think should be made. I may end up treading over

already covered ground but, whatever, I'm in the mood to ramble.

 

Let the rambling begin!!!

 

An ideal parkour system for warframe needs to be able to do a couple of things. It needs to be

entirely skill based with a decent skill ceiling, it needs to offer a wide range of control, It

needs to use the least amounts of input possible without hindering control, It needs to mesh well

with gunplay, and it needs to mesh well with various environments.

So, lets talk skill. To begin with, skill based gamepay needs a definitive win state and fail

state. In the context of Warframe the win state, in concerns to movement, should probably be

evasion. And the fail state can be, of course, taking damage. So, we then have to ask how do we

allow players to move towards the win state? Players can control positioning and speed through

movement and since Warfame isn't a cover shooter lets go with speed. So the goal would be to craft

a system that allows players to increase their speed and subsequently decrease their chances of

taking damage through skillful execution. Which brings me to my first change.

 

Acceleration. Allowing players to accelerate would give them a clear goal in concerns to movement.

Go fast and stay fast. Players wol be presented with various obstacles to overcome through vaults

jumps and so forth. Player would be able to use the layout to their advantage to keep momentum.

Gunplay  would become increasingly difficult to perform at higher speeds but would never become

impossible. And allowing certain actions to maitain momentum while punishing others(within reason)

would increase the relevancy of parkour related movements.

So, accelerating to top speed and maintaining would be at the core of parkour related gameplay

but how should speed increases and decreases be handled? And how can we offer a various number

possible movement paths Without over complicating inputs?

 

As far as parkour movements go, the player needs to be able to control four basic movement types.

Horizontal direction, parkour up, parkour forward, and parkour down. Keep in mind that "parkour X"

can mean jumps, vaults, wall ruhs etc. I'm going to put each movement type into its own section

and cover all of these movement types in order

 

Running, Jumping and Horizontal direction

 

**Rambling Intensifies**

Basic WASD or an analog stick can control horizontal movement on the ground and can set the

trajectory for jumps initiated from the ground. But as of right now horizontal movement cant not

be controlled when jumping from a wall run. This is due to the fact that the directional movement

input is occupied throughout the wall run. I would suggest that during wall runs the player would

jump off in the direction that they are currently aiming. since aiming is controlled with the

mouse/right analog lining up a jump off of a wall run would require the same type of reflexes as

aiming and shooting. It comes with the drawback that players wont be able to consistently stay on

target while wall hopping but players with good reflexes should still be able to score hits while

on each wall and in midair. As I mentioned above running should cause the player character to

accelerate but it's important to restrict it somewhat so that players don't take advantage of the

movement system. Sharp turns of more than 60 degrees or more should reduce movement speed and

total 180s should reset movement speed to base. Actions like jumping and sliding should maintain

speed whilst collisions and improper landings should nullify it. A proper landing would be the

standard roll that we currently have. This should be able to be done manually via pressing the

jump key right before landing. Otherwise the player should stick the landing and speed should be

lost. Proper landings should decrease speed as well but to a less extent. Also, this thread

mentions that being able to charge your jump by holding and releasing would allow for more

controlled vertical movement and I'm inclined to agree.

Sliding and coptering

Sliding should NOT give free momentum. Sliding comes with the benefit of being able to fire whilst

maintaining momentum when grounded and it can also transition well into various other parkour

moves. Coptering should provide a boost of momentum but it should reset speed to base upon

completion. Coptering should also be able to transition into all other parkour moves such as vaults

wall runs and so forth without momentum loss so that it can be useful as a transitional tool in

parkour. It will still also be spammable for the people who enjoy that style of movement. It will

provide a brief moment of high speed movement but should not be as fast as the max speed that can

be reached through acceleration. This is because max speed offers total evasion to incoming fire

from enemies perpendicular to your movement path. Coptering is both and attack and a high speed

movement so if it offered total evasion as well it would harbor no drawback and could eclipse

parkour entirely. But that doesn't mean coptering has to be useless. It's movement speed would

still reduce incoming damage just not offer total evasion.

I'm not really spun up on how coptering players like to play or how they would like their

playstyle to be improved upon. If this change is somehow game breaking let me know and I'll

attempt to come up with an alternate solution.

Vaulting

Vaulting as of now is very basic and I currently have it disabled because it can interfere with

jumping. I think forward vaulting should be handled using the context action key. When vaulting

anything while sprinting there should be two separate vault types regular and perfect. A perfect

vault should trigger if the player presses the key right before impact whereas the area before that

would trigger a regular vault. Perfect vaults should reward players with extra speed.

 

Forward

 

Forward vaults should only occur when the player is sprinting and pressing in the direction of the

object to be vaulted. Short vaults(to jump over and fall or jump over and hang) should be

performed when not sprinting. Context actions should take priority and should always trigger over

vaults when the player is not moving. Since you need to be moving to vault anyways there shouln't

be much of an issue with the two interfering with each other.

 

Downward

 

downward vaults can be performed by holding the crouch key and performing a vault same as above.

 

Upward

upward vaults are a little trickier. I don't want to add an extra input but binding it to the jump

key would result in it interfering with the jumping. So I came up with two possible solutions. It

can either have an option to bind it to the jump key for those who don't mind it. Or it can be

performed by holding the jump key and pressing the context action key. This could get a little

funky for controller players but if they switched reload and context action it could work.

 

Wall Running

Wall running can work in a number of ways whether it be resulting in an arc due to gravity taking

effect or the classic infinity run that we currently have. I'm more inclined to the former due to

the fact that it limits the wallrun and forces players to keep hopping between walls to keep their

verticality. Now, players shouldn't drop as fast as they do in midair but they should  be forced

to the ground steadily maybe at about half or a quarter of the speed(possibly make a new stat for

grip to increase wall run/wall grab effectiveness via mods).

 

 

Horizontal

Players should be able to initiate a wall run in a couple of ways. Horizontal wall runs should

initiate by simply colliding with a wall in midair at the right angle. If the player collides with

the wall while they are pressing in the direction of the wall the wall run should initiate.

The run will sustain while the player continues pressing in any direction and the player will fall

when all directions are released. Initiating a wall run should maintain speed and wall ejects should as well.

Vertical

 

vertical wall runs should only be able to be initiated when the player collides with the wall at

the correct angle and whilst moving upwards significantly. When a player collides with a wall at

about 90 degrees without significant upward movement they should hit the wall and lose

momentum.Since the player is not moving horizontally when initiating a vert wall run, they should

be able to move horizontally by pressing in either direction and fall off the wall by pressing in

the direction opposite to the wall. That way vert wall runs aren't locked into going straight up.

Diagonal

 

I think that there should definitely be a threshold for diagonal wall runs. Hitting the wall with

both a significant amount of upward movement and significant amount of forward movement should

result in a wall run that moves upwards diagonally. The run can either peak and return back

downwards at roughly the same angle or you could implement it so that it levels out into  a

horizontal wall run. Controls should work the same as Horizontal wall runs due to the predetermined

horizontal movement.

Wall ejects

 

I mentioned directional wall ejects above but I wanted to re touch on the subject. Whilst engaged

in a wall run the player should be able to hit the jump button to jump in whatever direction they

are aiming. When aiming anywhere away from the wall they are currently on they can simply project

themselves in that direction. But if they aim towards the wall they are on they should still be

able to jump just not in the same way. When they aim towards the wall they should kick off

parallel to the wall but at whatever angle they specify. Since the player pushes away from the

wall slightly they should not be able to re-engage the same wall before hitting the ground. But it

would be a good way to get that little extra push to get to hard to reach places.

side note : When a player hits a wall at 90 degrees in midair and loses their speed they should

react based on how fast they are going. At significant speeds they should hit the wall and bounce

off without the chance to jump. If the incoming speed is reasonable, though, they should be able

to hit the wall and  jump off.

 

I don't really need to go into gunplay since that is pretty self explanatory. The increasing speed

as well as the difficulty of precision aiming in midair and whilst wall running will ensure that

combat will not be too easy while maintaining speed. And all I can really say about level design is

that it has to be made with parkour in mind not in one or two spots but in ALL tiles. The tiles

should scale in difficulty as well as the enemies.

Well that's my whole spiel. I didn't cover other parts of parkour like ledge climbing and stuff

but I'll come back and edit that in later. I've been typing this for too long.

It would be easier to read this if you told the differences when compared to my suggestions. Now you just ignored OP + 36 pages and slapped us with this magnificent wall of text. I got bored reading it simply because I already told most of it myself. 

[ThePresident777]

Because I enjoy fast, and hate slow, I want fast to be the default state so that I enjoy the game by default.  I appreciate things that I enjoy by default much more than things that I do not.  Things that I enjoy by default put me in a generous mood.  Other things, not so much.  I find them antagonizing and I fight back.  I don't reward antagonists.

 

By making fast the win state, DE will more likely than not be tempted to not make fast the default state.  Usually, players start in the not-win state.  If fast is the win state then players are more likely to start in the not-fast state, even the slow state.  Yuck.  Because fast would be the win state, slow would more likely be considered the challenge state.  Therefore DE will more likely increase slow to increase the challenge.  They tried this with Significant Stamina, which was loudly rejected.

 

I think that introducing the concepts of win and not-win states has advanced our dialog greatly.  It would be interesting to see what else can be expressed in this paradigm.  But, I would prefer to see these states as sub-games(or missions, Tactical Alert, Nightmare Mode Challenges, call them whatever you want) rather than the game as a whole.  It would produce variety for players and a broad customer base for DE.

Edited December 5, 2014 by ThePresident777

[unknow99]

Because I enjoy fast, and hate slow, I want fast to be the default state so that I enjoy the game by default.  I appreciate things that I enjoy by default much more than things that I do not.  Things that I enjoy by default put me in a generous mood.  Other things, not so much.  I find them antagonizing and I fight back.  I don't reward antagonists.

 

By making fast the win state, DE will more likely than not be tempted to not make fast the default state.  Usually, players start in the not-win state.  If fast is the win state then players are more likely to start in the not-fast state, even the slow state.  Yuck.  Because fast would be the win state, slow would more likely be considered the challenge state.  Therefore DE will more likely increase slow to increase the challenge.  They tried this with Significant Stamina, which was loudly rejected.

 

I think that introducing the concepts of win and not-win states has advanced our dialog greatly.  It would be interesting to see what else can be expressed in this paradigm.  But, I would prefer to see these states as sub-games(or missions, Tactical Alert, Nightmare Mode Challenges, call them whatever you want) rather than the game as a whole.  It would produce variety for players and a broad customer base for DE.

This game has a fast & a slow pace : in the best case, both worlds need to be enjoyable. :)

 

I know some tenno who just wander in the tilesets of Jupiter/Europa/Erff to enjoy the view...

[Aspari]

Because I enjoy fast, and hate slow, I want fast to be the default state so that I enjoy the game by default.  I appreciate things that I enjoy by default much more than things that I do not.  Things that I enjoy by default put me in a generous mood.  Other things, not so much.  I find them antagonizing and I fight back.  I don't reward antagonists.

 

By making fast the win state, DE will more likely than not be tempted to not make fast the default state.  Usually, players start in the not-win state.  If fast is the win state then players are more likely to start in the not-fast state, even the slow state.  Yuck.  Because fast would be the win state, slow would more likely be considered the challenge state.  Therefore DE will more likely increase slow to increase the challenge.  They tried this with Significant Stamina, which was loudly rejected.

 

I think that introducing the concepts of win and not-win states has advanced our dialog greatly.  It would be interesting to see what else can be expressed in this paradigm.  But, I would prefer to see these states as sub-games(or missions, Tactical Alert, Nightmare Mode Challenges, call them whatever you want) rather than the game as a whole.  It would produce variety for players and a broad customer base for DE.

I agree with this. Allow me to add my thoughts to it.

 

 

People like going fast, but going the fastest you can go requires the use of an exploit. Coptering isn't treated like a mechanic yet, so until it is I'm going to refer to it as an exploit. Personally, I want to go fast too. But I can't do it on my Rhino, my Frost, or my Excalibur unless I copter. We need other ways to move fast.

 

Let me just share my opinion on this: Even though it's sorely needed, a better parkour system isn't going to make us move all that much faster. I love parkour, but I also feel that we need a lot more to keep the speedsters feeling speedy without the use of an exploit.

 

I had ideas for the slowest frames in the game.

 

Rhino: Sprinting causes Rhino to build up more speed over time, and after getting to a certain speed he's also able to knock down enemies in his path. With this, Rhino will be able to be very fast if he's going in a relatively straight line.

 

Frost: Frost can ride his own ice waves to get around, just like Ice Man. If he runs into any enemies while riding his ice wave, those enemies will get hit with a 100% chance of ice proc and take damage. He can also combo into wall running with this.

 

 

Some of you may also disagree with me on this one as well, and my opinion isn't going to change no matter what your reasoning is, but I feel that directional melee has way too much mobility on it. It needs its thrusting mechanic removed. The thrusting mechanic is completely unnecessary. Distance covered with directional melee needs to be completely dependent on how fast the Warframe is moving and the angle of which the Warframe to the area the Warframe wants to attack. We also need better physics for this game in general.

[taiiat]

Distance covered with directional melee needs to be completely dependent on how fast the Warframe is moving and the angle of which the Warframe to the area the Warframe wants to attack.

that's... exactly how Directional Melee works, actually. your distance moved is completely connected to your current Velocity.

[Aspari]

that's... exactly how Directional Melee works, actually. your distance moved is completely connected to your current Velocity.

No it doesn't. If I'm jumping straight up and use my Galatine, I'm thrusting even higher than the distance I just jumped.

[taiiat]

No it doesn't. If I'm jumping straight up and use my Galatine, I'm thrusting even higher than the distance I just jumped.

that's exactly the point! the faster you're moving when you use Directional Melee, the faster it will go.

[(PSN)theelix]

I agree with this. Allow me to add my thoughts to it.

 

 

People like going fast, but going the fastest you can go requires the use of an exploit. Coptering isn't treated like a mechanic yet, so until it is I'm going to refer to it as an exploit. Personally, I want to go fast too. But I can't do it on my Rhino, my Frost, or my Excalibur unless I copter. We need other ways to move fast.

 

Let me just share my opinion on this: Even though it's sorely needed, a better parkour system isn't going to make us move all that much faster. I love parkour, but I also feel that we need a lot more to keep the speedsters feeling speedy without the use of an exploit.

 

I had ideas for the slowest frames in the game.

 

Rhino: Sprinting causes Rhino to build up more speed over time, and after getting to a certain speed he's also able to knock down enemies in his path. With this, Rhino will be able to be very fast if he's going in a relatively straight line.

 

Frost: Frost can ride his own ice waves to get around, just like Ice Man. If he runs into any enemies while riding his ice wave, those enemies will get hit with a 100% chance of ice proc and take damage. He can also combo into wall running with this.

 

 

Some of you may also disagree with me on this one as well, and my opinion isn't going to change no matter what your reasoning is, but I feel that directional melee has way too much mobility on it. It needs its thrusting mechanic removed. The thrusting mechanic is completely unnecessary. Distance covered with directional melee needs to be completely dependent on how fast the Warframe is moving and the angle of which the Warframe to the area the Warframe wants to attack. We also need better physics for this game in general.

We don't need directional melee changed. It's already hard enough to hit things because where you're aiming =/= where you're hitting. So, In terms of gameplay, there's a security camera attached to the roof to your twelve o'clock and 65 degrees above you. In order to hit it, you need to aim 70 or more degrees above you, or behind where you're supposed to be aiming. 

 

It's stupid that they added directional melee with restricted, linear movements. Eg. you're always slashing horizontally and even if you aim straight up, you're never going to hit anything because directional melee is restricted to being horizontal. 

 

Edit: Also, exactly when will we be able to jump high enough to gain enough momentum for 45 degree or more jump attacks? A jump doesn't give you enough momentum to do anything and if your logic is completely dependent on momentum, jump attacks would be as stupid and as hard to perform as wall attacks. 

Edited December 5, 2014 by (PS4)theelix

[(PSN)theelix]

that's exactly the point! the faster you're moving when you use Directional Melee, the faster it will go.

He means actual dependence on velocity, not just an increase to the preset thrust. He wants the general thrusting, the instant manufacturing of thrust +- current velocity, removed so it's only current velocity. 

[Aspari]

We don't need directional melee changed. It's already hard enough to hit things because where you're aiming =/= where you're hitting. So, In terms of gameplay, there's a security camera attached to the roof to your twelve o'clock and 65 degrees above you. In order to hit it, you need to aim 70 or more degrees above you, or behind where you're supposed to be aiming. 

 

It's stupid that they added directional melee with restricted, linear movements. Eg. you're always slashing horizontally and even if you aim straight up, you're never going to hit anything because directional melee is restricted to being horizontal. 

 

Edit: Also, exactly when will we be able to jump high enough to gain enough momentum for 45 degree or more jump attacks? A jump doesn't give you enough momentum to do anything and if your logic is completely dependent on momentum, jump attacks would be as stupid and as hard to perform as wall attacks. 

Let me give you an example of what I'm talking about.

 

Red Faction: Guerilla. If you're sprinting forward and you jump in the air and want to hit the guy in your general direction or the piece of building you could reach by standing, you aim and you hit your melee button. If you time it right, and it's pretty easy, then you'll hit your target every time. That's directional melee done right. There's no flaw with that, unless you have aim assist on - or in our case melee assist.

Edited December 5, 2014 by Aspari

[taiiat]

Let me give you an example of what I'm talking about.

 

Red Faction: Guerilla.

*nerd explosion*

i love Red Faction: Guerrilla's Melee. it has like, 3 Melee Attacks. only 3 types of Attacks. but they damn well work. they're consistent and i can always expect them to work the way they're supposed to.

 

Melee in that game also is pendant on Velocity, so if you try to swing a hammer while it's already touching a wall, you will do jack all to it. but if you have enough space to get some inertia going, you'll cleave a wall in half.

 

Melee in Red Faction: Guerrilla is simple, but consistent and very satisfying.

(is now going to go play Guerrilla some more, especially since it got an update after 5 years of none :D)

[(PSN)KaxMcc]

It would be easier to read this if you told the differences when compared to my suggestions. Now you just ignored OP + 36 pages and slapped us with this magnificent wall of text. I got bored reading it simply because I already told most of it myself. 

 

While I admit that I restated a number of things you have already brought up(I even acknowledged the fact in the first couple of sentences) the entirety of my post is more specific to how parkour controls should work. Just about all of my ideas in concerns to how wall runs are controlled are different than yours. So you can check that section out if you want. But if you decide to skip over it that's fine. It was mostly a just rambling anyways.

 

Also, I didn't ignore the OP. I've read it several times. I just wanted to cover everything.

[-SLX-J3tAc3]

I agree with this. Allow me to add my thoughts to it.

 

 

People like going fast, but going the fastest you can go requires the use of an exploit. Coptering isn't treated like a mechanic yet, so until it is I'm going to refer to it as an exploit. Personally, I want to go fast too. But I can't do it on my Rhino, my Frost, or my Excalibur unless I copter. We need other ways to move fast.

 

Let me just share my opinion on this: Even though it's sorely needed, a better parkour system isn't going to make us move all that much faster. I love parkour, but I also feel that we need a lot more to keep the speedsters feeling speedy without the use of an exploit.

 

I had ideas for the slowest frames in the game.

 

Rhino: Sprinting causes Rhino to build up more speed over time, and after getting to a certain speed he's also able to knock down enemies in his path. With this, Rhino will be able to be very fast if he's going in a relatively straight line.

 

Frost: Frost can ride his own ice waves to get around, just like Ice Man. If he runs into any enemies while riding his ice wave, those enemies will get hit with a 100% chance of ice proc and take damage. He can also combo into wall running with this.

 

 

Some of you may also disagree with me on this one as well, and my opinion isn't going to change no matter what your reasoning is, but I feel that directional melee has way too much mobility on it. It needs its thrusting mechanic removed. The thrusting mechanic is completely unnecessary. Distance covered with directional melee needs to be completely dependent on how fast the Warframe is moving and the angle of which the Warframe to the area the Warframe wants to attack. We also need better physics for this game in general.

Slick, I like this!