[The Outdated Parkour Thread] It Finally Happened! (Voice Your Opinion In The Poll!)

[ThePresident777]

Movement is not fluid if it has pauses.  Pauses are clunky.  They have to go.

[Aspari]

Bump. 

Ok so we've been teased with Parkour 2.0 on TennoLive. For those who have missed the livestream:

 

 

So anyway (assuming if all of that we've seen will be implemented ingame), let's make some analysis.

 

1. Walljump

Okay so the walljump can be a bit flashy, Excal transitions from a horizontal wallrun to jump and does a (unnecessary but kinda cool) barrel roll to get to the other wall and continue wallrunning. This, I think, would address point #3. Players won't just catapult far ahead after a short wallrun, it would be more controllable, and perhaps aimable.

 

2. Horizontal wallrun -> Vertical wallrun

I think this would be the solution for point #1, albeit a bit differently. The transition is done by a slight pause, and then continuing to wallrun upwards. Point #1 states that "The distinction between vertical and horizontal wallrun needs to be removed when player is not shooting or aiming." Well it does remove the distinction, but with a slight pause instead of seamless transition. Although I may only be half-right about it (more on this later).

 

3. Grabbing onto the wall

Later on we see Excal walljump and then grabbing onto the other wall, being stationary. I think this has to do with point #5, except that you don't slide down. Seems a bit vulnerable because being immobile means you're still being prone to enemy fire. Perhaps, in its defense, that the distance between you and the enemies are quite far that the probability to hit the Tenno is not that significant. But still...

 

4. Zipline transitioning

There are 2 parts here, one is that Excal transitions from the stationary wall grab to ziplining, and then transitioning to another zipline below. I don't see the OP addressing this one (correct me if there is), maybe because of the level design. To make this happen the tilesets would probably have to be tweaked for this particular maneuver, basically a zipline on top of another zipline. 

 

5. Zipline -> Vertical wallrun

Here we see Excal brakes with his legs, and then swings to the other wall pad. Again, a slight pause for the transition. Perhaps there will be a key that enables us to brake from ziplining, being stationary and then enables us to swing to either side. Not a bad idea, but again, being immobile makes players susceptible to enemy fire.

 

6. Aimable Vertical wallrun + Vertical walljump

On the last part we see Excal wallrunning towards the rooftop by changing its vertical orientation, jumps to another wall pad, and continues to vertical wallrun. Excal does this twice. Again, this would address point #1 where players could aim the wallrun orientation to a certain extent. It only shows a bit of vertical orientation but there's a chance that we might be able to transition to horizontal wallrunning by applying this orientation. Also, it could address point #6 where we could transition from a vertical wallrun into jumping towards a platform on either side. Still, the vertical walljump is quite a nice idea, but again, level design would have to tweaked to make this possible.

 

7. Yet at the very last part we still see Excal grabbing the ledge and then does a front handspring, like usual. If i'm not mistaken, the OP does address this before, but I don't seem to find it. A simple ledge grab and then raising your legs towards the platform would be a simpler solution, it's how Parkour practicioners does it and it takes a shorter time to execute. The front handspring, while being a cool factor in WF, still takes time; I guess DE can compensate this by making the animation quick, and I mean really quick. 

 

 

I just want to clarify that all of the points I mentioned are under "Further improving it with new additions and overhauls" section, not the "Much needed fixes". Anyway, Thoughts?

Those are great. I'm wondering if they're going to change up sprinting, vaulting, and other acrobatic maneuvers on the ground. 

[Aure7]

Bump. 

Ok so we've been teased with Parkour 2.0 on TennoLive. For those who have missed the livestream:

 

 

So anyway (assuming if all of that we've seen will be implemented ingame), let's make some analysis.

 

1. Walljump

Okay so the walljump can be a bit flashy, Excal transitions from a horizontal wallrun to jump and does a (unnecessary but kinda cool) barrel roll to get to the other wall and continue wallrunning. This, I think, would address point #3. Players won't just catapult far ahead after a short wallrun, it would be more controllable, and perhaps aimable.

 

2. Horizontal wallrun -> Vertical wallrun

I think this would be the solution for point #1, albeit a bit differently. The transition is done by a slight pause, and then continuing to wallrun upwards. Point #1 states that "The distinction between vertical and horizontal wallrun needs to be removed when player is not shooting or aiming." Well it does remove the distinction, but with a slight pause instead of seamless transition. Although I may only be half-right about it (more on this later).

 

3. Grabbing onto the wall

Later on we see Excal walljump and then grabbing onto the other wall, being stationary. I think this has to do with point #5, except that you don't slide down. Seems a bit vulnerable because being immobile means you're still being prone to enemy fire. Perhaps, in its defense, that the distance between you and the enemies are quite far that the probability to hit the Tenno is not that significant. But still...

 

4. Zipline transitioning

There are 2 parts here, one is that Excal transitions from the stationary wall grab to ziplining, and then transitioning to another zipline below. I don't see the OP addressing this one (correct me if there is), maybe because of the level design. To make this happen the tilesets would probably have to be tweaked for this particular maneuver, basically a zipline on top of another zipline. 

 

5. Zipline -> Vertical wallrun

Here we see Excal brakes with his legs, and then swings to the other wall pad. Again, a slight pause for the transition. Perhaps there will be a key that enables us to brake from ziplining, being stationary and then enables us to swing to either side. Not a bad idea, but again, being immobile makes players susceptible to enemy fire.

 

6. Aimable Vertical wallrun + Vertical walljump

On the last part we see Excal wallrunning towards the rooftop by changing its vertical orientation, jumps to another wall pad, and continues to vertical wallrun. Excal does this twice. Again, this would address point #1 where players could aim the wallrun orientation to a certain extent. It only shows a bit of vertical orientation but there's a chance that we might be able to transition to horizontal wallrunning by applying this orientation. Also, it could address point #6 where we could transition from a vertical wallrun into jumping towards a platform on either side. Still, the vertical walljump is quite a nice idea, but again, level design would have to tweaked to make this possible.

 

7. Yet at the very last part we still see Excal grabbing the ledge and then does a front handspring, like usual. If i'm not mistaken, the OP does address this before, but I don't seem to find it. A simple ledge grab and then raising your legs towards the platform would be a simpler solution, it's how Parkour practicioners does it and it takes a shorter time to execute. The front handspring, while being a cool factor in WF, still takes time; I guess DE can compensate this by making the animation quick, and I mean really quick. 

 

 

I just want to clarify that all of the points I mentioned are under "Further improving it with new additions and overhauls" section, not the "Much needed fixes". Anyway, Thoughts?

DON'T make assumptions from the trailer please, since it's more like a cinematic. All past trailers only showed polished animations that only partly represent what you can do in game. It will be different in game. There will still be wall flinging, players will cry if ANY change happens to it even though it might be for the better. We can only be sure about obvious maneuvers like that rope swing and zip line to line transition. The rest is premade and polished animation made to look good for cinematic but not for gameplay.

Movement is not fluid if it has pauses.  Pauses are clunky.  They have to go.

exactly, that's why I hope that's just for the trailer. There's no way players are gonna do this instead of copter and aerial melee.

[StonedMakak]

 

3. Grabbing onto the wall

Later on we see Excal walljump and then grabbing onto the other wall, being stationary. I think this has to do with point #5, except that you don't slide down. Seems a bit vulnerable because being immobile means you're still being prone to enemy fire. Perhaps, in its defense, that the distance between you and the enemies are quite far that the probability to hit the Tenno is not that significant. But still...

 

Actually, many times I wanted to just grab and stay on the wall without sliding down for stealth purposes. I know it's just a trailer and all that but I would be very glad if it was part of Parkour 2.0. And have minimal stamina drain. 

 

Movement is not fluid if it has pauses.  Pauses are clunky.  They have to go.

 

Very much agreed. 

[taiiat]

Wall 'flinging' still existing doesn't have to be a bad thing.

if Players have the control and capability to EITHER do a massive launch to bridge to far away surfaces without Coptering, or a less insane push off to get to a closer surface - then it's all good.

Wall 'flinging' has as much good reason to exist as any other part of Parkour. we want to make it more flexible and smoother, which means as many possible functions as we can get, so that you hopefully always have the options that you need.

the only other choice for hitting surfaces that are a little further away is to either fall or Copter, so what's the lesser of two evils here?

i'll take being able to Wall 'fling' to be an alterior option to SpinDashes.

[Aspari]

Wall 'flinging' still existing doesn't have to be a bad thing.

if Players have the control and capability to EITHER do a massive launch to bridge to far away surfaces without Coptering, or a less insane push off to get to a closer surface - then it's all good.

Wall 'flinging' has as much good reason to exist as any other part of Parkour. we want to make it more flexible and smoother, which means as many possible functions as we can get, so that you hopefully always have the options that you need.

the only other choice for hitting surfaces that are a little further away is to either fall or Copter, so what's the lesser of two evils here?

i'll take being able to Wall 'fling' to be an alterior option to SpinDashes.

We can replace wall "fling" with a charged wall jump. An example of this is the way you can charge a jump while grabbed onto a wall in Prototype. Keep it a potent mobility tool but make it situational.

[taiiat]

We can replace wall "fling" with a charged wall jump.

hmm, that could be good. a variable Charge to allow you to cover just about any distance you might need to.

whether that be a single meter, or 30 meters.

Edited March 7, 2015 by taiiat

[Lukap99]

We can replace wall "fling" with a charged wall jump. An example of this is the way you can charge a jump while grabbed onto a wall in Prototype. Keep it a potent mobility tool but make it situational.

I like wall-flinging. It's certainly less broken emergent gameplay than coptering. And it actually requires skill to chain and use properly!

I would be happywith DE refining Wall flinging, so we can control it and use it more skillfully.

[Rakshal]

I like wall-flinging. It's certainly less broken emergent gameplay than coptering. And it actually requires skill to chain and use properly!

I would be happywith DE refining Wall flinging, so we can control it and use it more skillfully.

So much this, especially the top part.

[unknow99]

Movement is not fluid if it has pauses.  Pauses are clunky.  They have to go.

ThePresident777 for president

 

Vote now! 2015-2015

[StonedMakak]

I like wall-flinging. It's certainly less broken emergent gameplay than coptering. And it actually requires skill to chain and use properly!

I would be happywith DE refining Wall flinging, so we can control it and use it more skillfully.

 

Yeah the charge wall-jump/wall-fling mechanics would allow us just that, just like taiiat says, whether it's 3 o 30 meters, you have full control over it.

 

Also seeing as we're not getting any traditional stealth mechanics anytime soon (or ever), imagine how this would affect that aspect of gameplay. Stealth would be all about staying high, timing you wall-grabs and charged jumps to avoid enemy detection. DE could also reduce enemy awareness for players that are actively parkouring. The lack of cover/shadow mechanic and spawning behind your back would be a non issue, as long as you maintain the right altitude so to speak (indirect buff to Zephyr), making for a pretty unique stealth system.

 

Not trying to sidetrack the thread towards stealth, just sayin' there is a opportunity to kill two birds with one stone here. 

[unknow99]

Yeah the charge wall-jump/wall-fling mechanics would allow us just that, just like taiiat says, whether it's 3 o 30 meters, you have full control over it.

 

Also seeing as we're not getting any traditional stealth mechanics anytime soon (or ever), imagine how this would affect that aspect of gameplay. Stealth would be all about staying high, timing you wall-grabs and charged jumps to avoid enemy detection. DE could also reduce enemy awareness for players that are actively parkouring. The lack of cover/shadow mechanic and spawning behind your back would be a non issue, as long as you maintain the right altitude so to speak (indirect buff to Zephyr), making for a pretty unique stealth system.

 

Not trying to sidetrack the thread towards stealth, just sayin' there is a opportunity to kill two birds with one stone here. 

Stealth with a Parkour approach? How can I upvote you multiple times?!!

[CombatantFrost4]

Yeah, I think coptering and directional melee is unrealistic, DE should also introduce new vaulting styles( something like that)

I never copter, or directional melee for no reason( unless there is an enemy in front of me), I always try to use traditional parkour as much as possible.

BESIDES, PARKOUR 2.0 IS COMING

[RawGritz]

Sweeet!

 

Trailer is DEFinitely Parkour 2.0 teaser. How much will make it in is unknown.

 

See from DE's own press release about Tenno Live and PAX

 

"Details revealed at TennoLive included the unveiling of Parkour 2.0, a new enemy faction, a new Dragon-themed Warframe, new Melee Weapons, and a New Prime Warframe.  With the new Parkour system coming, Warframes will have new ways to navigate both new and familiar tricky areas with swag moves.  There will be a trio of new weapons to wield while doing so, including the Community Concept weapon, the Mios, the Puncture Glaive and the Dark Dakra, in honor of the two year-anniversary of Warframe."

 

- unedited press release published @ http://www.gamasutra.com/view/pressreleases/238333/WARFRAME_CONTINUES_MAJOR_DESIGN_LEAPS_WITH_BIG_REVEALS_AT_PAXEAST.php

[FrameUnity]

+1 OP has presented a very extensive and in depth suggestions and improvements to the parkour aspect of Warframe and I honestly hope that DE would take this more seriously as I'm very sure this will make huge difference in the overall gameplay in a very good way

[VandalisedKiwi]

ur a smart potato <3

But its all okay.. the potential behind parkour 2.0 may have quite a few of your concepts behind it

[ThePresident777]

So, parkour 2.0, is it here yet?  I'm not sure I noticed anything different about this yesterday except that melee is more clunky now.

[StonedMakak]

So, parkour 2.0, is it here yet?  I'm not sure I noticed anything different about this yesterday except that melee is more clunky now.

 

Don't think so, no mention of it in the patch notes, and the godawful stamina system is as much of a nuisance as ever. They haven't touched it. On a side note - PvP has fully exposed the ridiculousness of both directional melee and coptering, so I think that at least in PvP those mechanics will be removed/tuned down. Unless there is no one sane left at DE...

[unknow99]

So, parkour 2.0, is it here yet?  I'm not sure I noticed anything different about this yesterday except that melee is more clunky now.

Nope, it's not here yet man.

 

Neither do Uranus tilesets & Regor. :/

[tmtke]

I think you've seen the last devstream. To be honest, I thought the tennolive sentients trailer just got special moves because it's a movie. I was really happy to hear that the guys will do targeted jumps, some control over wallrunning (even stopping and hanging there) and ziplining controls. Looks really good so far!

[.Czern]

I think you've seen the last devstream. To be honest, I thought the tennolive sentients trailer just got special moves because it's a movie. I was really happy to hear that the guys will do targeted jumps, some control over wallrunning (even stopping and hanging there) and ziplining controls. Looks really good so far!

Can't wait :<

[Mr.Lube]

Every time I try to suggest something like this I get shut down by coptering and directional melee lovers saying "if you don't like it, don't do it". But the truth is, using your melee weapon is the only viable way to keep up with your team. What if I wanted to run a mission without a melee? I would be left in the dust.

[unknow99]

Every time I try to suggest something like this I get shut down by coptering and directional melee lovers saying "if you don't like it, don't do it". But the truth is, using your melee weapon is the only viable way to keep up with your team. What if I wanted to run a mission without a melee? I would be left in the dust.

Hey that's an excellent counter-argument mr.Lewd : "you like to copter everywhere but...What if you enter a mission that doesn't let you melee?...Hn?!"

 

Everyone shouldn't rely on a glitch to play normally! Because playing normally is...different than using a glitch.

Edited March 30, 2015 by unknow99

[unknow99]

I think you've seen the last devstream. To be honest, I thought the tennolive sentients trailer just got special moves because it's a movie. I was really happy to hear that the guys will do targeted jumps, some control over wallrunning (even stopping and hanging there) and ziplining controls. Looks really good so far!

Yup, I had the same good surprise!!

 

It shows how rare this kind of addition come...

 

Edit : 56 pages!! Keep it coming!!!

Edited March 30, 2015 by unknow99

[Ryjeon]

So many people want to nerf an entire skillset. So rather than asking for more options and adding new skillsets into the game they'd rather just see everyone who utilizes those skillsets to move as slowly as them.

 

Mobility and reactivity are a core part of survivability. It let's squishier frames and melee frames have a chance to stay alive versus higher enemy pressure. Warframe is supposed to be about options. If you prefer to focus on developing different skillsets other than the currently available mobility ones you can play tankier warframes with more defensive abilities, or frames with skills that provide mobility of their own.

 

I'm all for getting a cap on the velocity and distance traveled of the faster weapons, or for limiting the ability to endlessly chain-copter. I repeat. I am for toning Coptering down.But these skillsets need to remain for the sake of the mobility and reactiveness they promote.  Or maybe these tools need to be limited by stamina more. But if so we need our warframe mod loadout expanded so that players who enjoy this playstyle can still mod to support it. At least then it would  be a conscious choice to concentrate on that aspect. This is my perspective as a melee player as well as someone who can move quickly even without a melee equipped.

 

It's like asking for all the Smash Brothers Melee fans to stop playing their game and switch to Brawl. You might like the slower and shinier game, but a lot of players fell in love with the faster one.

 

I don't think I'd be able to play like this without this skillset: http://i.imgur.com/rocOzqD.jpg?1 Or at least I wouldn't of had as much of a good time doing it.

 

edit: I just want to reiterate I'm not saying "Just deal with it." I'm still trying to contribute constructively by offering suggestions on how it might be toned down. Yes, something needs to change. And Warframe's mobility needs to evolve. I just think the core reactivity offered by these mobility combos should remain, though perhaps in a somewhat more limited form. Keep in mind combos were originally an unintentional design aspect in the game Street Fighter II that was eventually embraced. And in many other games one's attacks are also a core part of one's mobility. Please don't make me play Jogframe.

Edited March 30, 2015 by Ryjeon