Mastery Filtering for Public Groups

[dwqrf]

il y a 11 minutes, SpicyDinosaur a dit :

I don't believe you are lying, I just don't believe it's possible.

I know the feeling. I'm just really sad I don't have a proof to share.

Now, let's have a look, for a really exagerated example :

There is a 410 "normal" weapons (primary, secondaries, and melee, only). That's making, roughly 136 set of three weapons (this is incorrect as there is fewer secondaries than melee, but you get the point). You can level them up to max in 5mn in two round of ESO, considering one saryn and a affinity booster. You'd need only 11 hours to max all of that. That's NOTHING. While you are maxing all of those weapon, you can easily max in the same time any warframe, any companions, sentinels and their weapons.

Then you'd have to "only" level up Amp, Archwing and their weapons (while farming Intrinsics), Kdrive, unlock nodes and junctions. Nothing that take thousand of hours either.

You can buy a lot of weapons in the market. Most come from Dojo ; Farming Ressources, Credits would be the biggest pain, right, but all of those can be bought in Plat in the market, and any crafting time doesn't count in time played and can also be accelerated.

From a far wild guess, i think only the log in rewards weapons can't be bought in any way, and maybe some stuff like Excalibur Umbra. You still have a huge marging between mastery 28 and 29.

[Pie_mastyr]

One idea along the lines of a player filter is a sort of opt in role mechanic. (For pugs)

Basically, once you have met the requirements for a specific role, you can matchmake into groups looking for that role. An example let's say is dps. Once a player has  ended 20 missions with more tha 25% team damage they are eligible to be dps. So in public matchmaking they can check a box that will mark them as such and stop them from connecting to squads who aren't looking for one, and connect them to someone who is. A healer could be like, heal 100 allies. Enough basically to prove they at least have the equipment to perform the task. Then from there if you want some sort of skill check you could have an end of mission rating from teammates. No thumbs down just thumbs up to hopefully keep things from being toxic. Important to note here the system would be pug only so you wouldn't be able to just farm up votes from friends (alternatively make it 1 vote per role per player? Not sure on this)

 

A few reasons why it wouldnt be implemented? It's open to trolling ( someone could matchmake as support but build their loadout as dps) 

It would be mostly for new players who dont have a group of friends to help them. So not really mass appeal

Finding the right player statistics to use for role eligibility would be a pain

Getting players to rate their teammates could get toxic.

 

Anyway that's the approach I'd take to a player filter. Targetted to intermediate players without a consistent group who have a limited inventory. 

 

Edited June 11, 2020 by Pie_mastyr

[dwqrf]

il y a 3 minutes, kaotis a dit :

You stil didn't answer how you see players with 300h and mr  28 but i guess that's how online trolls work

What ? I see them with my eyes, on a computer screen, after writing /profile. Is that the answer you were looking for ?

Edited June 11, 2020 by dwqrf

[(PSN)Mr_ClapClap]

vor 13 Minuten schrieb Pie_mastyr:

Anyway that's the approach I'd take to a player filter. Targetted to intermediate players without a consistent group who have a limited inventory. 

 

Yes why not, that sounds pretty good. So everyone can flag her in the the kind of groups an go to public groups. 

It is similar better than a factory MR filter..

 

[Kaotis]

hace 27 minutos, dwqrf dijo:

What ? I see them with my eyes, on a computer screen, after writing /profile. Is that the answer you were looking for ?

So basically : " believe me i'm saying the truth i promise and not saying all this just to troll this post" 

Also only the 130 primary , 111 secondary and 164 melee (not including others , 15 rounds of defense +/- for lev 30 on a weapon that take 5 mins each +/-  =>130+111+164=(405*(15*5))=30375 mins = 506 h leveling up 1 by 1 every weapon nonstop.

The argument ... well you can lev up several simultaneously is valid but considering that instead of 1 weapon getting 75% of the exp per round it will get 25% actually taking you more or less the same time to lev up all of them. Sure trow in the 70 frames in the mix and the total amount of hours would likely go to 400h +/-  (I'm not going to go out of my way to get you the exact numbers) 

All this numbers are from the top of my head and with the most optimal of teams that don't miss a beat, not considering side tracks like stalker , syndicates , host migration , random bug , random crash , random net failure etc etc and totally hypothetical and not something that real humans would do. So yea i don't believe you , have a nice day.

Edited June 11, 2020 by kaotis

[dwqrf]

il y a 5 minutes, kaotis a dit :

15 rounds of defense +/- for lev 30 on a weapon

Do you even know ESO ?

il y a 5 minutes, kaotis a dit :

So basically : " believe me i'm saying the truth i promise and not saying all this just to troll this post"

tHe MoOn LaNdInD iS fAke AnD eArTh Is FlAt

[Pie_mastyr]

Just now, kaotis said:

So basically : " believe me i'm saying the truth i promise and not saying all this just to troll this post" 

Also only the 130 primary , 111 secondary and 164 melee (not including others , 15 rounds of defense +/- for lev 30 on a weapon that take 5 mins each +/-  =>130+111+164=(405*(15*5))=30375 mins = 506 h leveling up 1 by 1 every weapon nonstop.

The argument ... well you can lev up several simultaneously is valid but considering that instead of 1 weapon getting 75% of the exp per round it will get 25% actually taking you more or less the same time. Sure trow in the 70 frames in the mix and the total amount of hours would likely go to 400h +/-  (I'm not going to go out of my way to get you the exact numbers) 

All this numbers are from the top of my head and with the most optimal of teams that don't miss a beat, not considering side tracks like stalker , syndicates , host migration , random bug , random crash , random net failure etc etc and totally hypothetical and not something that real humans would do. So yea i don't believe you , have a nice da.

Well a good eso team would be quite a bit faster. With a booster it's possible to get 3 unranked weapons to 30 in 1-2 rounds so like 2:30-5 minutes for 3. Frames would need to be done on regular SO but it would still be a bit faster. Snagging a double xp weekend as well to minmax could cut a lot of that time out.

That being said you'd need at least 2 friends who would be willing to help for best results.

I do think the given scenario is unlikely but I think this is getting off topic. The point still stands: MR isn't necessarily the best way to judge player ability since its fulfillment requirements are unrelated to skill. There is some correlation since generally high mr players have more time in game which means they've had longer to learn it, but it is not always the case and tends to be unreliable.

[dwqrf]

il y a 11 minutes, kaotis a dit :

130+111+164=(405* WEAPONS (15 WAVES *5 MINUTES ))=30375 mins = 506 h

According to your math, every wave of defense is 5 mn long, for a 25mn round. This isn't how warframe works.

[Kaotis]

hace 4 minutos, dwqrf dijo:

Do you even know ESO ?

So you are implying that this player has a slave that kils enemies for him/her 24/7 ? Or that he goes into public maches until he gets saryins or any other room nukers? 

hace 7 minutos, dwqrf dijo:

tHe MoOn LaNdInD iS fAke AnD eArTh Is FlAt

As long as you don't go into the hollow earth theory we good fam.

[Kaotis]

hace 2 minutos, dwqrf dijo:

According to your math, every wave of defense is 5 mn long, for a 25mn round. This isn't how warframe works.

it's an estimation taking into account variables between waves (such as not all enemies rushing out or camping a door etc. 

[dwqrf]

à l’instant, kaotis a dit :

So you are implying that this player has a slave that kils enemies for him/her 24/7 ? Or that he goes into public maches until he gets saryins or any other room nukers?

There is groups of people out there which enjoy the challenge of speed running the game. They have a carry, and a carried. Maybe for you Warframe is only a public experience, for some it's only a solo experience, for some hardcore grinder it's only a closed community experience. It's not because you don't know about it that it doesn't exist.

 

il y a 2 minutes, kaotis a dit :

As long as you don't go into the hollow earth theory we good fam.

So earth is flat and the moon landing is fake ? That's what you believe ? Nasa lied to anyone ? Anyone on the internet is a liar as soon as you can't understand/imagine as a possibility   that what they said may be true ?

[Kaotis]

hace 1 minuto, dwqrf dijo:

So earth is flat and the moon landing is fake ? That's what you believe ? Nasa lied to anyone ? Anyone on the internet is a liar as soon as you can't understand/imagine as a possibility   that what they said may be true ?

It was actually a joke... Your other statements do are a bit flimsy, unlike nasa that actually put a video , several people on the moon and an actual reflective mirror that you can use to measure the distance between the earth and moon, your statements went from : " people that have 300 h and are mr 28 " to  "well maybe not so many"  and then to " well i do pvp and you don't 😛 " did i miss any part? 

[dwqrf]

à l’instant, kaotis a dit :

" people that have 300 h and are mr 28 " to  "well maybe not so many"  and then to " well i do pvp and you don't 😛 " did i miss any part? 

You are distorting everything.

I only pointed out the fact that MR doesn't reflect neither skill nor time played, as I've seen ONCE a player MR28 with 300hours played, and that the best pvp player I know is MR15, and will destroy you every single time even tough you have a higher MR (and a negative KD).

[Kaotis]

hace 27 minutos, dwqrf dijo:

You are distorting everything.

I only pointed out the fact that MR doesn't reflect neither skill nor time played, as I've seen ONCE a player MR28 with 300hours played, and that the best pvp player I know is MR15, and will destroy you every single time even tough you have a higher MR (and a negative KD).

What does my kd have to do with anything? I see in your profile that the flavor of the month comment i said about you is true so because i was right you have to point out content that i don't interact with? Good thing you didn't say anything about my 100% winrate in lunaro lol (<--sarcasm, got only 1 match) 

And "I know a MR X player that Y in this game mode " oke ever heard of the term outlier (here's a link maybe you learn something today : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outlier) ? Speaking in absolutes all day then "nono i only witnesed it once but that gives me the right to say every one is like that".

Like i said the moment i saw your first comment , don't trol post pls.

Edited June 11, 2020 by kaotis

[z3us32610]

Since I've hit MR 16, I've spent very little time actually pursuing mastery. The last several days I've played with a handful of weapons I've had built for months just because I was close to MR 27. 

I love playing with different weapons, but that little "mastered" badge the game gives us once we've ranked it to level 30 is completely misleading. One can easily jump into ESO and never use the thing, leeching xp to "master" the weapon."

Perhaps that mastered badge could be tied to kills with the weapon, rather than xp.

[KIREEK]

Equally good players, but in the title you mentioned a MR filtering.

Something is off.

Only the players on the low end of the spectrum will mention MR as a method to gauge competence, while the ones on the high end will require actual gameplay to determine how good a player trully is.

1st and foremost you must decide where you are exactly, do you want a MR filter or you want good players? pick one

[dwqrf]

1 hour ago, kaotis said:

 "nono i only witnesed it once but that gives me the right to say every one is like that".

I never said EVERY MR28 has only 300 hours of time played. Ever. You distort things again.
 

1 hour ago, kaotis said:

i was right you have to point out content that i don't interact with?

Which is exactly the point of this post. OP want to be matchmade with MR X only, which doesn't reflect anything about their Warframe experience, skill, or intelligence. Some people play conclave, some farm the codex, some are addicted to eidolon hunting, some afk in Hydron. All of those player can be MR 28. We could think MR is a time value, but it isn't true, as i'm using ONE example of a MR 28 with 300 hours played. I have the same MR as you, but twice the time played. Does that mean you are twice much more of a noob than me ? NO. Doesn't mean anything.

KD, or victory %, on the other hand, can give much more information, if you play against people of the same level : ELO in any competitive games (from Chess to Fortnite) is used to class people according to their performance against the players of same ELO. In warframe, conclave KD is worthless as you don't have enough player, and no ELO League, to truly be matchmade against people of the same level, and as you can exploit it by targeting only the bad players in Team deathmatch. But still, conclave is the only way to compare SKILL between players in Warframe. Not MR.

[Kaotis]

1 hour ago, dwqrf said:

Which is exactly the point of this post. OP want to be matchmade with MR X only, which doesn't reflect anything about their Warframe experience, skill, or intelligence. Some people play conclave, some farm the codex, some are addicted to eidolon hunting, some afk in Hydron. All of those player can be MR 28. We could think MR is a time value, but it isn't true, as i'm using ONE example of a MR 28 with 300 hours played. I have the same MR as you, but twice the time played. Does that mean you are twice much more of a noob than me ? NO. Doesn't mean anything.

The OP was asking for a filter on public squads not pvp , MR tests guarantee a minimum level of skill in the game more or less.

1 hour ago, dwqrf said:

I never said EVERY MR28 has only 300 hours of time played. Ever. You distort things again.

No, but implying that they are common place yes. 

 

1 hour ago, dwqrf said:

I have the same MR as you, but twice the time played. Does that mean you are twice much more of a noob than me ? NO. Doesn't mean anything.

Curious what the first world you come up with to describe some one that has less hours than you in the game comes up. And it means you have more hours than me in this game , simple as that( given most of them spent in conclave but still ).

[dwqrf]

36 minutes ago, kaotis said:

MR tests guarantee a minimum level of skill in the game more or less.

It doesn't.

36 minutes ago, kaotis said:

No, but implying that they are common place yes.

Saying that I saw ONE MR 28 with 300 hours played doesn't imply it's a major part of the player base. Unless you think we are only four people playing the game.

 

36 minutes ago, kaotis said:

Curious what the first world you come up with to describe some one that has less hours than you in the game comes up. And it means you have more hours than me in this game , simple as that( given most of them spent in conclave but still ).

Someone with less time played just has less time played. Nothing else. Then we can compare time spent in Conclave, farming Codex, and many other gamemode, but then again, time spent doesn't reflect any form of progression. I can only say to you that I finished my codex, and that was the most time consuming on my time played.

It certainly wasn't conclave, as I didn't spend more than 200 hours in the conclave, which was enough of a pain, as it's the worst gamemode ever, but I forced myself to do it for the farm of mods and scene, to complete my collection. Again, time spent doesn't mean I'm a good pvp player, even though a positive KD is better than negative KD.

[dwqrf]

In the same line of idea, you could compare a "good" player to a "bad" player with the percentage of game won, game failed, and game quitted ; but then again, some specific farm (including codex, rivens) is making leaving missions quicker than just completing it, making stats irrelevant.

[Kaizal]

18 hours ago, (PS4)Mr_ClapClap said:

This also includes events and other missions and game modes such as Eidolon hunting. It is currently the case that you never play on public to avoid that you join a mr 4 mag or excalibur during the eidolon hunt.

To eidolon hunt efficiently you need specific setups, and a decent team coordination(with the rare outlier of the player that has nearly-perfect mechanics, and can basically solo 4x3s or more even sometimes, but that often needlessly consumes energy pads so most people who are actually able to do that, don't even bother for the most part).

If you are telling me that with 3 random high MRs you can get S#&amp;&#036; done in eidolons, well, let's just say i'm not convinced, most randos i play with don't know S#&amp;&#036; about how to actually do the mission or don't have good gear for it(because they'd be in recruit chat if they did).

And if you don't care about efficiency, and you're just doing it to have a good time, you should be able to solo pretty much all the mission, so what's actually the problem?(I mean, you're MR24, and that basically implies you can solo 3x3).

18 hours ago, (PS4)Mr_ClapClap said:

That breaks the fun for me and the player, because the level difference is too big.

>>>and the player<<< Press X to doubt, the amount of people begging in recruit chat to be carried is always astonishing. Furthermore, the nodes high MR player use where there are also new players, are very select for the most part, so even if newbs were bothered by it, it wouldn't be a huge issue. Also newish players are often the most receptive to advice and the more interested in it. The amount of them that have exteriorised discomfort for my presence in a mission amazes me because of how small it is.  Also if a new player asks me to stop nuking the map, i will, because it's not that difficult, it's not that common, and i'm not going for efficiency(if i was i wouldn't let noobs in). It seems to me that only a select few high MRish players are actually bothered by this.

Made evident by the fact that this suggestion has been done for the longest time, and everytime it happens it's an MR20+ making it.