Devstream 86 and Kuva Liches

[PhiThagRaid]

At 51:22 they have a discussion about the kingpin{Lich} system.

A friend of mine recently linked me this with regards to the Kuva Lich system. Back when this devstream happened I was not too interested in the kingpin system, since I had never heard about it at that time. I therefore do not have a big issue that the Lich system did not turn into the sprawling interconnected investigation mentioned here. It does sadden me that the Kuva Liches turned out exactly as Steve described the first draft here.

There is no clan interaction or missions
No real ranks among the liches, only the liches themselves and the thralls.
The only dojo interaction is lich trading.
"Kind of a random enemy lacked a bit of long term engagement"

For what is missing, it does not seem like it would be too difficult to introduce something that addresses many of these issues. If the current Lich system was kept, but a boss above them were introduced that were tied to clans (and possibly a boss above that tied to alliances). Each lich taken down would then contribute toward progress in defeating the boss above it.

With the above suggestion, clan missions could be introduced as the bosses of the liches would be clan based.
The ranks among the liches would start to take form.
The dojo will then become the interaction point when taking down the bosses (this could possibly interact with railjack, where normal liches can only be found on ground missions and the bosses in railjack missions).
And finally the long term engagement will be set up due to multiple liches being taken out per lich boss. The normal lich count could scale with clan size to prevent large clans from defeating their bosses 100 times faster. (This scaling should be lower than the amount of people in the clan to still encourage clans to expand)

As I said at the start, I'm not too bothered that the Lich system did not turn out as suggested, but I would still like to see it improve.

 

[Kaotyke]

1 hour ago, PhiThagRaid said:

There is no clan interaction or missions

There would be outrage if there was... but then again, there was outrage when it didnt.

1 hour ago, PhiThagRaid said:

No real ranks among the liches, only the liches themselves and the thralls.

Yeah, imagine if they did have that and people screaming about "Layers of RNG" even more than they did.

1 hour ago, PhiThagRaid said:

The only dojo interaction is lich trading.

See the #1

1 hour ago, PhiThagRaid said:

"Kind of a random enemy lacked a bit of long term engagement"

It was adressed in a later stream, about a Lich lasting over a month to kill... then we would have the outrage of time gates to get their weapon. But then we had the outrage of they not being what DE first envisioned.

1 hour ago, PhiThagRaid said:

For what is missing, it does not seem like it would be too difficult to introduce something that addresses many of these issues. If the current Lich system was kept, but a boss above them were introduced that were tied to clans (and possibly a boss above that tied to alliances). Each lich taken down would then contribute toward progress in defeating the boss above it.

See #1 and #2.

My dude... there is no winning in this. You will see. People will post about these 2 points, if there is need for interaction with Clans/Friends, the "Social Distancing" crowd will come bellowing "at top of lungs".

And those who want more Clan interaction would complain about the lack of porpuse of Clans/Alliances. The Railjack Drydock was a step towards that, but then..."Social Distancing crowd".

I'm in the part of giving clans more porpuse, even if my little Ghost Clan only has 5 people that dont even trade words, but then the headache of "Social Distancing" and "What of Solo clans?"  will come even though one of the objectives of a "Clan" is to socialize with others of equal interesst.

But then... it would be "unfair" for the "Social Distancing" crowd, wouldnt it? Think of the children.

[Hypernaut1]

Things like this is why they will be reluctant to share any spitballing ideas with the community. 

Harping on "but you said in devstream 5!" Will only make devstream become rigid boring PR ads instead of devs talking about their hopes and dreams for game

[SneakyErvin]

When they were thought of as "kingpins" I could have seen the whole clan connection thing, some powerful warlord or crimelord sitting there and bullying one or several planets, then our unified clan could do some superhero cosplay and go "tennovengers assemble!", followed by heading out to kick the kingpin's teeth in.

As a nemesis though it is on a far more personal level and likely no one above gives a flying crap if we beat our corpse-or-friend to be into bloody pulp.

Plus a clan mission just gives me bad flashbacks of Guild Wars 2 guild quests.

[CrimsonSpawn]

The current lich system is very much a solo experience (despite you seeing murmur squads in the recruiting tab). Spawning the larvling, figuring out the correct requiem mods and building an arsenal to counter your lich's weaknesses and resistances, are all a solo experience. The only things being more efficient with more players are farming murmurs and actually downing the liches. 

So, if you wan't to make it more Co-op and clan member's related. You'll have to either A) make it a limited time experience with clan exclusive rewards, which will mean that liches will come and go (like Plague Star).... or B) make it like railjack....