How Come The More I Read, The More I Hate?

[SJunior]

It may be "his" game but nobody can know every line of code in the game. Datamining is a bigger, harder deal than you seem to think it is. It took all the dedicated dataminers on Reddit to find the incorrect entry. Typos happen. It was a new guy apparently. *Shrugs*

I guess I'm more willing to accept things as a mistake then some, but I've never been much of a conspiracy theorist.

You are currently over emotional, and you're clearly baiting DE. Getting locked and banned proves nothing.

More in depth response:

-People get bored of things. The fact that your friends left has nothing to do with DE.

-Cedric got too invested and couldn't be impartial. That's why he left.

-Frost Prime: True, but a ferociously bad idea I'm glad they reversed. If it had been the whole frame it could have made sense, but not the blueprint alone. You did technically get an exclusive head start.

-Snipertron: It was given as a last chance because the community asked and DE listened.

-The Jupiter Golem is being replaced by Alad V. You don't pay attention well do you?

-Super easy to farm navs. Seriously, try looking at it from a newby point of view. By the time they are ready to face Lephantis they have hundreds of the things.

-So what if Nekros isn't a tank? He's fun. You're just looking for whine material.

-First, DE is Canadian and not subject to American fraud laws, and second you have literally no case.

 

Agree.

Edited November 2, 2013 by SJunior

[General_Krull]

It may be "his" game but nobody can know every line of code in the game. Datamining is a bigger, harder deal than you seem to think it is. It took all the dedicated dataminers on Reddit to find the incorrect entry. Typos happen. It was a new guy apparently. *Shrugs*

I guess I'm more willing to accept things as a mistake then some, but I've never been much of a conspiracy theorist.

But if someone says something seems to be off in game you check it properly. HOW DO YOU MISS THAT!? Especially when you are specifically looking for discrepancies.

[thatdamnlobster]

 

 

Level of interaction? How about they replace twitch with something like omegle or skype? How do we even know that those questions they ask are from real players? And besides, how do they filter questions?

 

 

DE often goes to DC for livestream questions. That's not the only place, but it is a perk. Rebecca asked my question once.

 

Edit: I believe that the moment a game stops being fun for you you should stop playing. 

<------850+ hours ingame, 2000+ in steam. Playing since march.

Edited November 2, 2013 by thatdamnlobster

[Luminati07]

The QQ is strong with this one.

I passed 1000 hours on steam today, and I got this game on the 5th of April.

You moan about support, yet what other game has a team that dedicated?
The level of interaction of the Devs with the community is above and beyond what I have experienced in any other game. We get weekly updates, each making the game better, and adding more.
Sure there have been things that haven't been as good as they could have been, but that is what beta is about, trying crazy stuff and seeing if it works or not.

And all of this from a F2P game. You can get EVERY non-cosmetic-only item in this game without coughing up a single cent.

I could rant on for days about how you are wrong but I honestly can't be bothered. Cry more and don't let the door hit you on your way out.

1) Someone being disappointed is QQ?
There's plenty of players who are disappointed, and the majority of them have completely valid reasons.

2) CD Projekt Red.

3) And, how long will the beta excuse last?
These days, I don't even pay attention to a beta tag.

So many devs out there use it as a way to justify the state of the game.

Plus. If a dev team is charging up to $250 for founders. Then they do not get any kind of pass when it comes to the state of the game, imo.

 

Warframe has been in "beta" for a very long time, and still has issues that have been around for months.
Sure, hotfixes have been released, and they're absolutely great. Doesn't change the fact that there's still pressing issues that have been flat out ignored, or promised they they are "working on it".

 

4) "Cry more and don't let the door hit you on your way out."

Oh, stfu.

Someone gives some feedback about the game, and he gets this?

 

I'd understand if his post was "OMG, DE sucks. I hate DE. You guys are S#&amp;&#036;ty devs."

But, it wasn't.

It was thought out, made sense, and he has completely valid points.

 

Edited November 2, 2013 by Nugget_

[General_Krull]

DE often goes to DC for livestream questions. That's not the only place, but it is a perk. Rebecca asked my question once.

WOW! I bet it was a hard hitting question too. Like asking sound team "what's the craziest thing you've done". They systematically ignore the hard questions in favour of silly questions. It's pointless.

[Sixty5]

What other team? How about Path of Exile? How about Kojima productions? How about Projekt Red? I've been playing since the 80's and I know my teams.

 

Level of interaction? How about they replace twitch with something like omegle or skype? How do we even know that those questions they ask are from real players? And besides, how do they filter questions?

 

Being "BETA" is just a marketing scheme. Read up. "Beta" yet hauling in moolah from players? Product testing should be a cost, not a profit center.

 

You know well as much as I do that not all non-cosmetic-only item in this game can be acquired without paying up. Just look at your badge.

 

I could also rant on for days about how uninformed you are, but honestly I can't be bothered. Sorry, I don't cry just for some stranger I hardly know, and we actually use door stoppers in my apartment.

I will give you the other teams thing, but DE is still well above the average Developer in that respect.

 

As to the interactivity, next time you watch a livestream have the question topic open, and read through it with the stream, you'll see that they are real questions. Hell I've even had MINE answered. Questions are filtered based on relevance, what can be answered, and what hasn't been answered before IIRC

Also replacing twitch with Omegle or Skype limits audience and is less controlled

 

With the Beta thing, it is a formality as to say "lots of stuff will change" which is the gist of the EULA. Also considering the fact that DE is self producing as well as developing this game they have to make money from it somehow, and offering the full product for free and then giving the option to pay is a fair way to do it.

 

As to the items, there  is no non-cosmetic item in this game that you have to pay for, everything can be acquired for free. I purchased Masters after reaching Rank 4 back in the day, which was at that point the level you needed to get everything in the game. Sure the Plat was a factor in purchasing it, but I mainly purchased Masters because at that point I felt I had experienced enough of the game to say that it was worth supporting its Devs and that it was a good investment.

I suppose there are the founders items, which were cash only, but with the introduction of Forma, they are still really just re-skins.

 

[_Rue_]

some people want to play finished products and some want to be part of the creation.

 

bye.

 

Played 1173 hours. Just got GM (event though i live in a 3rd world country which really amplifies the cost). Joined in January. Ditched gw2 for this game.

 

I loved the game when it was in u6... the amount of change and improvement this game has gone though is amazing.

 

You ignored all that and highlighted a few problems.

 

DE isn't perfect. They at least try. I love them for that.

[thatdamnlobster]

WOW! I bet it was a hard hitting question too. Like asking sound team "what's the craziest thing you've done". They systematically ignore the hard questions in favour of silly questions. It's pointless.

Now you are just being difficult. I recall them asking a ton of trading, about changing the net code, about nerfing or buffing and the list goes on and on. silly question do get asked but the ones we care about do also.

[ValhaHazred]

But if someone says something seems to be off in game you check it properly. HOW DO YOU MISS THAT!? Especially when you are specifically looking for discrepancies.

It happens, I see stuff like that at work all the time. One of the iCreate guys recently missed an update and screwed up a month and a half of data entry.

It's Hanlon's Razor, "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."

It doesn't have to be stupidity obviously. In this case it was cramming in stuff for a deadline, inadequate sleep and no time to decompress over the following week. The same thing probably happened to DE.

[Sidathe]

Being "BETA" is just a marketing scheme. Read up. "Beta" yet hauling in moolah from players? Product testing should be a cost, not a profit center.

Games have gotten expensive as holy hell, lately, and the more complex you're gonna make them, the more investment you need...which requires that you either have a fifth job and do the game development on the side, or have people giving you money. :L Because new IPs are risky business and no one really wants to back something expensive and might not bring a good enough return.

[xethier]

I'm new here. Admittedly.

 

DE has a long history in gaming.

This is their first foray into anything resembling an MMO.

The mistakes they are making are typical of a single player dev house going into the "live" environment that is an mmo.

If you watched today's livestream you'd see just how glaringly obvious that is.

 

Personally, I've done a TON of reading on these forums and on DE in general. (as well as being a raving fan of their work since Unreal and I've actually played things like epic pinball)

 

Now, as a company incurring the costs of running a semi-persistent system as well as them being a privately owned corporation, I can see the need for making money while still being in beta, I don't agree with it, but I understand it and will deal with it.

 

Beyond that, everything they've done has been consistent with the norms of a beta. Try, fail, repeat. It's called iteration.

It's a nasty, irritating, frustrating monster, but it's necessary to polish the final product.

 

This is the price you pay to play in a beta. 

Edited November 2, 2013 by xethier

[ErudiusNacht]

What other team? How about Path of Exile? How about Kojima productions? How about Projekt Red? I've been playing since the 80's and I know my teams.

 

Level of interaction? How about they replace twitch with something like omegle or skype? How do we even know that those questions they ask are from real players? And besides, how do they filter questions?

 

Being "BETA" is just a marketing scheme. Read up. "Beta" yet hauling in moolah from players? Product testing should be a cost, not a profit center.

 

You know well as much as I do that not all non-cosmetic-only item in this game can be acquired without paying up. Just look at your badge.

 

I could also rant on for days about how uninformed you are, but honestly I can't be bothered. Sorry, I don't cry just for some stranger I hardly know, and we actually use door stoppers in my apartment.

 

 

1) Someone being disappointed is QQ?

There's plenty of players who are disappointed, and the majority of them have completely valid reasons.

 

2) CD Projekt Red.

 

3) And, how long will the beta excuse last?

These days, I don't even pay attention to a beta tag.

 

So many devs out there use it as a way to justify the state of the game.

 

Warframe has been in "beta" for a very long time, and still has issues that have been around for months.

Sure, hotfixes have been released, and they're absolutely great. Doesn't change the fact that there's still pressing issues that have been flat out ignored, or promised they they are "working on it".

 

4) "Cry more and don't let the door hit you on your way out."

Oh, stfu.

Someone gives some feedback about the game, and he gets this?

 

I'd understand if his post was "OMG, DE sucks. I hate DE. You guys are S#&$ty devs".

But, it isn't.

It was thought out, and made sense. He had valid points.

 

Thanks man, I know I was harsh in my OP, but we maid the same response to this uninformed person.

 

I totally agree with CD Projekt Red, we named it as a good team. Well, they are a good team. They had humbler beginnings than DE but was able to satisfy and communicate with more players, without resorting to "BETA". The next installment of their game shall be open world online, I guess we know where my money is going to next.

[General_Krull]

It happens, I see stuff like that at work all the time. One of the iCreate guys recently missed an update and screwed up a month and a half of data entry.

It's Hanlon's Razor, "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."

It doesn't have to be stupidity obviously. In this case it was cramming in stuff for a deadline, inadequate sleep and no time to decompress over the following week. The same thing probably happened to DE.

But it was a week or two after U10. Plenty of time to rest and recheck it PROPERLY. Especially when people noticed something was off. It's not a minor thing either. And even if it was incompetence it doesn't excuse it. It was such a massive mess up and do you know what it looks like when few weeks after they ENCRYPT the drop tables? It seems like the problem to them wasn't ridiculously low drop rates, it was the people finding out about them.

[thatdamnlobster]

But it was a week or two after U10. Plenty of time to rest and recheck it PROPERLY. Especially when people noticed something was off. It's not a minor thing either. And even if it was incompetence it doesn't excuse it. It was such a massive mess up and do you know what it looks like when few weeks after they ENCRYPT the drop tables? It seems like the problem to them wasn't ridiculously low drop rates, it was the people finding out about them.

I dont recall it being that big of a deal. It was bad, but DE isn't trying to fool people. And they are human. If you think you can do better, please, make me a game.

[ValhaHazred]

snip

And now they are in the process of making sure the game itself autogenerates a drop table so they can take human error out of the picture. If they where covering things up they wouldn't be doing that.

I'm not sure why they encrypted the files, I guess it's probably really annoying to get hacked every time you release new content.

[ErudiusNacht]

some people want to play finished products and some want to be part of the creation.

 

bye.

 

Played 1173 hours. Just got GM (event though i live in a 3rd world country which really amplifies the cost). Joined in January. Ditched gw2 for this game.

 

I loved the game when it was in u6... the amount of change and improvement this game has gone though is amazing.

 

You ignored all that and highlighted a few problems.

 

DE isn't perfect. They at least try. I love them for that.

 

Yes DE isn't perfect, nobody is. Dang, in the my first paragraph I insulted myself. Some Mod spoke his mind in the first page asking why I was complaining when I clearly enjoyed the game if I had 650+ hours. Yes, I did enjoy the game. But that is the point, it's in past tense.

 

I also live in a 3rd world country, and I know how frustrating it is to be limited by that. But still, with the growing player base and their income going up, they should spend some more for the players. It feels as if they just continued what they were doing from before there were few players.

 

I'm not saying that what they're doing is wrong, or that they are not trying. I admit they try. But it's not enough. Not close enough. Not by a lightyear.

Edited November 2, 2013 by ErudiusNacht

[General_Krull]

I dont recall it being that big of a deal. It was bad, but DE isn't trying to fool people. And they are human. If you think you can do better, please, make me a game.

I'm resisting urge here. really.

 

Going from 12.67% to 0.67% isn't a big deal!? Sure maybe if you buy everything. But seriously?! Do you understand statistics? And make my own game?! That's such a cop out. Try making real arguments.

[alchemistjkt]

I'm not sure why they encrypted the files, I guess it's probably really annoying to get hacked every time you release new content.

to be fair... thats kinda their own fault.

had they given us some kind of table to begin with nobody would have needed to mine for the data.

and given the couple of times that they said "x" and we really got "y", we as a community have to be somewhat suspicious, lest we be taken as fools. (that sounded way "older" than i intended)

[General_Krull]

And now they are in the process of making sure the game itself autogenerates a drop table so they can take human error out of the picture. If they where covering things up they wouldn't be doing that.

I'm not sure why they encrypted the files, I guess it's probably really annoying to get hacked every time you release new content.

Datamining is not hacking, and if we had drop tables to begin with it wouldn't be needed. And even then datamining is just looking at the data, no changes is being made. It's harmless unless you got something to hide.

[ValhaHazred]

I'm not saying that what they're doing is wrong, or that they are not trying. I admit they try. But is not enough. Not close enough. Not by a lightyear.

I'm glad you understand that. It all comes down to a matter of perspective. Most of your complaints revolve around exclusivity, which is something I've never cared about. My complaints (things like the U10 stamina nerf, unbalanced damage types, lack of lore) are either fixed or in the pipeline. I've been consistently pleased by DE's actions so I can't help but defend them.

They can't please everyone and in some cases they flat out can't or won't.

[thatdamnlobster]

I'm resisting urge here. really.

 

Going from 12.67% to 0.67% isn't a big deal!? Sure maybe if you buy everything. But seriously?! Do you understand statistics? And make my own game?! That's such a cop out. Try making real arguments.

You got me, it was a cop out. Sorry. Seriously though, It didn't last too long and I never really saw that big of a change. To be honest I think this is a learning path for DE too. I know you can't see it, but DE really takes this stuff to heart, and they often time stay up way past when they should and go alot of nights without sleeping to fix these things so we have our fixes NOW. Sometimes I think this community is spoiled.

[TintedLenz]

And now they are in the process of making sure the game itself autogenerates a drop table so they can take human error out of the picture. If they where covering things up they wouldn't be doing that.

I'm not sure why they encrypted the files, I guess it's probably really annoying to get hacked every time you release new content.

The game already autogenerates the drop rates based on what DE classifies as common/uncommon/rare drops. They handwaved Forma rates from 12% to ~1% as dilution because that was what it was.

[General_Krull]

You got me, it was a cop out. Sorry. Seriously though, It didn't last too long and I never really saw that big of a change. To be honest I think this is a learning path for DE too. I know you can't see it, but DE really takes this stuff to heart, and they often time stay up way past when they should and go alot of nights without sleeping to fix these things so we have our fixes NOW. Sometimes I think this community is spoiled.

We are spoiled because we expect quality. Really? I'm not saying they owe me personally. I'm saying if they want to succeed they better listen to what we say. As much as you want to take everything they shovel out a lot of people won't. I don't think few hundred grand masters can keep this game afloat by themselves.

[ValhaHazred]

Datamining is not hacking, and if we had drop tables to begin with it wouldn't be needed. And even then datamining is just looking at the data, no changes is being made. It's harmless unless you got something to hide.

Fair enough. From what Google shows me it looks difficult and way over my head. I'm in administration, not a computer monkey :P

I still say the fact that the game is being made to show it's own drops is a sign of hard won experience, not past malfeasance.

to be fair... thats kinda their own fault.

had they given us some kind of table to begin with nobody would have needed to mine for the data.

and given the couple of times that they said "x" and we really got "y", we as a community have to be somewhat suspicious, lest we be taken as fools. (that sounded way "older" than i intended)

I'm sticking with Hanlon on this one. I don't think they realized they needed too. No game in their past has needed such a function.

[alchemistjkt]

Seriously though, It didn't last too long and I never really saw that big of a change.

a wise man once said: "its not what people do, but why they do it that we should be concerned".

i dont think DE is evil, but i think they lost sight of the big picture some time back.

mind you, i feel they have gotten a bit more on track, but still...

 

To be honest I think this is a learning path for DE too. I know you can't see it, but DE really takes this stuff to heart

the only issue i have with that is that it seems like DE continues to make the same kind of mistake over and over again.

you burn your hand once, you learn not to do it again.

DE seems to be doing the opposite.

(though as i said, i feel they are getting back on track more as of late).