So... I can trade, but a shouldn't because my account could be locked... nice...

[Zimzala]

12 minutes ago, Skaleek said:

Indeed this feels more accurate, but then are you equating increased fees to holding victims accounts locked till they shell out cash?

People talk about 'who pays' and in the end, we, as the victims of fraud and as consumers, are the ones that 'pay' in both the short and long term for the nefarious actions of the bad actors.

In the specific case of an account having enough 'bad plat' revoked from a reversed CC transaction to cause it to go negative, DE works with the individual as best they can to fix the problem.

If, in fact, the user spent the 'bad' plat on things DE cannot return for refund to get the balance positive, then and only then is the user with the negative plat balance paying to counter the specific scammed 'bad plat' amount.

The Internet Urban Legend of this happening with any regularity drives the FUD of users to fear trades.

There are simply no actual statistics on the numbers involved here, nor is there any guarantee that the user that ends up with a negative balance was not, in fact, part of the scam.

Therefore, from the point of view of someone that deals with bad actors as a daily occurrence, I think the method DE uses here is sound, even if those that think 'corporations' are rolling the $$ and should just roll over to the emotional whims of consumers and give away product.

Bad things happen in the world, DE, just like any company dealing with CC chargebacks, is not responsible for the actions of those bad actors.

[Skaleek]

28 minutes ago, Zimzala said:

The Internet Urban Legend of this happening with any regularity drives the FUD of users to fear trades.

There are simply no actual statistics on the numbers involved here, nor is there any guarantee that the user that ends up with a negative balance was not, in fact, part of the scam.

Therefore, from the point of view of someone that deals with bad actors as a daily occurrence, I think the method DE uses here is sound, even if those that think 'corporations' are rolling the $$ and should just roll over to the emotional whims of consumers and give away product.

I think even if it happened once, its too many times. Thats my opinion though and I see what you're saying as a generalization.

[Zimzala]

13 minutes ago, Skaleek said:

I think even if it happened once, its too many times. Thats my opinion though and I see what you're saying as a generalization.

I get it, but bad people do bad things and DE, like any company, is just as much of a victim, if not more, than the players when it comes to chargebacks.

This idea that DE, or any company, should just 'suck up' these losses turns into higher fees for all users/consumers/players.

So, let's say DE chose to 'fix' negative plat players. That would equate to all prices increasing to cover the cost.

Do we ALL pay more, or do we go with the idea that just the few who get extremely unlucky or make bad trades have to pay?

That's the question, in my experience.

[AzureWaffle]

I currently have -679 platinum and I understand about getting it, I checked if my bank refunded but nothing, so I'm thinking it must have been an unlucky trade, the only thing is I bought ~350 plat from nyx prime accessory and discount, and have only traded around 50 plat, but now have -679? that's crazy, that's like $50, I might pay but just waiting on support to give me what they know.

[xombob89]

What, Ive never even heard of this "bad plat"? Can someone explain what this is, like a hacker giving himself free plat, and if he then buys something off you with that youll lose the item and then the plat? 

Im at a point where I only trade the more expensive items (full sets of primes, liches, maxed arcanes etc) which take a lot of effort to farm so this is - well - worrying news. Even though Ive never seen it happen in all these years. 

[MqToasty]

41 minutes ago, xombob89 said:

What, Ive never even heard of this "bad plat"? Can someone explain what this is, like a hacker giving himself free plat, and if he then buys something off you with that youll lose the item and then the plat? 

Im at a point where I only trade the more expensive items (full sets of primes, liches, maxed arcanes etc) which take a lot of effort to farm so this is - well - worrying news. Even though Ive never seen it happen in all these years. 

So a basic version of the scam goes like this (and this is applicable to any game selling virtual currency):

1. A bunch of thieves steal / buy a ton of stolen credit card numbers.
2. They advertise "Discounted plat!  90% off the full price!", but in order to buy it from them, you have to give them your login credentials.
3. Using one of the stolen credit card numbers, they buy plat from DE as you (logging in with your Warframe account).
4. If the credit card's real owner is diligent with their own accounting, they find out in a month or so on their credit card statement and contest the charge with their bank.  The bank issues a chargeback, meaning they do not release the funds to DE, and the plat that was bought gets marked as "bad".  If the credit card's real owner is not diligent enough, then they are suckers who get stuck paying for your plat, but as far as DE and the rest of us know, the plat is still "good".

Now if you are in on the scam or just wish to hide your tracks a little better, you might use a dummy account for Step 3.  After that you will intentionally overpay your real account in plat for a worthless riven mod or something.  Basic money laundering.

What we are discussing in most of this thread is what happens if a legitimate user trades with a user who obtains plat through fraudulent means, and that plat eventually turns "bad"?  DE's recordkeeping allows them to keep track of all player plat transactions, so they can actually trace that "bad" plat to where it has been spent, and remove it from the system.  Unfortunately, this does mean that some legitimate users may get the short end of the stick as they have now lost both what they sold and the plat they made from it.

From several of the anecdotal accounts above, DE is very willing to work with legitimate users to recover the goods sold.  But as a seller you need to protect yourself with careful recordkeeping and not accept any trades that look too good to be true.  The more callous the buyer appears to be about spending big bucks, the more suspicious you should be about the buyer and the trade.

[xombob89]

1 hour ago, MqToasty said:

3 hours ago, xombob89 said:

So a basic version of the scam goes like this

Oh ok. Have to pay more attention when trading but I doubt there's much to do beyond watching for the most obvious clues.