Make Nekros Useful

[Alliedtropa]

Nekros costs about 177k in credits and he needs a lot of effort to craft. He is also priced at 375 platinum. His appearance and helmets are really nice, but "beauty" aside, he is an over rated warframe. 

 

First off, he has 100 health and 100 power which is not something bad, but his skills and abilities don't fill the shoes of this warframe. 

 

Now, let's talk abilities. Two of his abilities are really good, soul punch and shadows of the dead. Soul punch is a really powerful and really good 1st ability, it has a power strength of 500 and a 50m range. Shadows of the dead is an ok ability, but really good when you go solo, it summons fallen enemies that join your side, and fight until they die or up to 30 seconds elapse. The two other abilities flaw though. Let's start with the by far most useless nekro ability, desecrate. You get a 60% chance (fully leveled card) of getting an extra orb from fallen enemies, and then a 90% chance (fully leveled card) of rolling the enemy's drop again. Yes ladies and gentlemen, with this ability, you could get another health or energy orb, and a re-roll of the enemy's drops! The other ability is terrify. Terrify causes surrounding enemies to panic. This state of panic makes enemies not attack and flee from battle, while reducing enemy armor. Sounds good right? This ability is lacking of a lot though. This ability affects only 5/7/8/12 enemies, and it has a range of 5/10/15/20 meters. The state of panic lasts for 9/15/20/25 seconds. Not only that it starts with a low enemy count, it has a low starting range, and duration. This ability really helps if you are solo, and it's weaker in comparison of other warframes' third abilities.

 

Make him better, please.

[Mysteryman2000]

Sir, if you have had as much experience in the game as I have, Nekros does not need anymore power.  He can be a very late game warframe, and with support from other warframes Nekros makes it easy to last to an hour in survivals.

[Casardis]

Desecrate + Nova's Mprime is pretty much one of the reasons my team could do about an hour of survival relatively easily since it can give O2 boxes. It allows a better chance to get mods and materials as well (got a few orokin cells in Kiste - Ceres thanks to Desecrate). It's a good farming technique, and it has relatively good range to it.

 

Terrify, however, is quite lackluster for a 75 energy power.

[Criticalanarchy]

After putting several dozen hours playing Nekros I can say that he's just fine where he is, in fact he's my favorite frame. Terrify is an amazing ability that gives you plenty of time to breathe in heavy situations. *See a friend down, run in and pop it* *About to get raped by heavy's pop it* Frankly the range is amazing coupled with Stretch, it can effectively TERRIFY whole rooms giving you time to Desecrate/SOTD/Shoot everything while it doesn't shoot/fight back. It's a great tool to help your TEAM, even in solo it's amazingly effective once you get past the 20+min mark on survival. 

 

Desecrate, really? Pops whole rooms - more loot - nuff said.

[Nitresco]

Nekros is a god of Survival. His desecrate allows extremely long runs due to capsule drops. The abundance of heavy units allow him to summon extremely powerful squads of shadow clones. Have you see 15 Napalms summoned at once under a duration increase? If that isn't useful, I don't know what is.

[Anatolius]

A good nekros pretty much shines brightest in long term survival missions. Right up there with Trinity.

 

also desecrate helped me get Rage so...

 

I only wish desecrate where in the 2nd slot so that I dont get confused all the time.

 

I can not say anything for terrify since i only use it when I have to revive or dude or as a last resort.

 

Also soul punch may seem hunky doory to you but in later games its power becomes negligible (to me) but its ragdoll effect is what saves my butt 9/10 times

[honeybadger]

You have overlooked the armor debuff that Soul Punch and Terrify apply.

"Helloooo viable end-game mechanic."

[Archistopheles]

Keep playing Nekros more, Alliedtropa, you'll figure him out.

[Alliedtropa]

If I wanted a warframe just to do survival runs and stun enemies I would certainly not give 375 plat or 177k and a hell a lot of effort and resources for him.

[Mysteryman2000]

Who pays for a warframe?  And why in the world does it take so much effort to work him up into a state that might brake the system.  Sir you do not play Nekros right.

[Archistopheles]

If I wanted a warframe just to do survival runs and stun enemies I would certainly not give 375 plat or 177k and a hell a lot of effort and resources for him.

 

And that's your right and freedom as a gamer and a paying customer.

[Nedwin]

Nekros Is The King Of Survival

 

Cause He Can Make Corpses Drop Oxygen

Which combined with carrier can easily make you God of survival - with health+ energy+ ammo+ oxygen drops. PLUS you have your OWN army, Aoe Crowd Control and ragdoll nuke that can punch away lvl 115 toxic ancient in 0.5 sec away from you.

 

What more do you need?

Edited November 6, 2013 by Nedwin

[Archistopheles]

Nekros Is The King Of Survival

 

Ersshknsria?

 

I was hoping for a secret message...

[Phatose]

I don't understand.  If resources are valuable to you, then why is an ability that gives you 90% more not "Woohoo!"?  Heck, start factoring in enemy bisection, and it's over 90% extra resources.  If they aren't valuable to you, why does it matter how much he costs to make?

[Charismo]

Head on over here: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/122003-nekros-critiques-and-proposals/page-4 There's already good discussion on what's right and wrong with Nekros happening there, so join in after reading over it. Some of the post are starting to jumping the shark a bit, but there are still some good ideas.

 

People get defensive when you say their baby isn't perfect, which is what you're getting so far in this thread. Just abandon ship.

[darklord5830]

Terrify should do more to make Nekros terrifying. A movement/melee speed increase (to catch fleeing enemies) and/or a melee damage increase would be a nice change. A smoke effect would also add to the terror aspect.

[-dicht.ThanksFrost-]

Nekros is the most useful support frame in the game. Not only can you create cover and cannon fodder for your teammates with SoD, you can heal your teammates and reload the drop table (farming) using desecrate. Thanks to desecrate survival is a breeze. My nekros build is super strong and it can cast so that porbs why i love using him so much.

[kamimegurine]

Nekros suck this is why for those who thinks he is good for late game (click the spoiler button).

 

Once u meet mobs lv 200+ one shot= no shields 2-3 shields= dead.

You are telling me that you will have the time and energy to get enough energy orbs to heal a saryn? while in battle? each orb = 25HP, saryn with 1kHP... (1100 max with only 100 hp left) you will need to get her 40 Energy orbs, which means 40 desecrate... 40*50energy=2,000 Energy!!!

Make me know when you can get 2,000 energy in less than 15s. Nekros is NOT A HEALER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Can create cover using SoD, less than 15 enemies wont do the trick sorry only if your squad stays so damn close they can have a chance... once again 1 shot= no shields, 2-3 shots= dead... Are you telling me you would face mobs lv 200+ with nekros and not rhino/frost/trinity????

Nyx Chaos have no enemies limit, with the right mods you can keep it all the time (min duration, max streamline) over all the enemies, sure you may die as with SoD difference here is that every1 in the fight is an enemy so even if they fall its a win for the team, Also SoD has a really long Cast time, do you will have the time to get this one finished before you get shoted to dead?

 

Soul punch is ok... for a 1st power. not pull lv but its ok

 

Terrify sucks so hard, only 'cause of the enemy restriction... and also it should be able to recast over and over... but no you maybe wasting time of use 'cause 1 enemy is hiding from you and you cant kill him so you cant cast this one again...

 

If you had all the warframes and mods and weapons... tell where and why would you go with Nekros and not any other Warframe. (Functional way not just 'cause he looks like X thing)

Edited November 6, 2013 by kamimegurine

[Archwizard]

So three things.

 

First, saying Nekros is fine because Desecrate is great for survivals, is like saying Frost is fine because Snow Globe is great for defenses. Please, do tell me about all the use you get out of Freeze and Avalanche!

 

Second, Terrify has the energy cost of Chaos and Bastille but doesn't begin to compare to either. Maybe it compares to Radial Blind (which has a lower energy cost), but between the target limit, the inability to cast it on-demand and the fact that you have to chase down the people affected, it's a sub-par crowd control.

 

Third, his abilities are a pain to use. Soul Punch requires a nameplate AND line-of-sight to the target, and is only reliable to hit one enemy. Desecrate requires very precise timing when you're paired with strong AoE frames or using certain damage-types in terms of weaponry. Don't even get me started on Shadows of the Dead's AI!

 

You have overlooked the armor debuff that Soul Punch and Terrify apply.

"Helloooo viable end-game mechanic."

 

Just Terrify, actually. They scrapped that part of Soul Punch.

Seriously, do the math on it. 20% reduced armor translates to only ~6% bonus damage to the target, tops- it slopes back down around the 200 armor mark, which most Grineer have as a base.

You can push that to 45% reduced armor with Focus and Blind Rage, but that's only around 15% bonus damage at that same point.

And did I mention Soul Punch ignores the boost anyway?

Edited November 6, 2013 by Archwizard

[Phatose]

Nekros has two main purposes.  Survival, and resource farming in low level missions.  He's not a frame for doing level 200 content.  But, most frames aren't fit for that anyway.

 

His other abilities could certainly use some love.  Much like Frost, he's essentially a one trick pony.  And much like Frost, that one trick is good enough that he deserve a slot in your stable. 

 

 

You are telling me that you will have the time and energy to get enough energy orbs to heal a saryn? while in battle? each orb = 25HP, saryn with 1kHP... (1100 max with only 100 hp left) you will need to get her 40 Energy orbs, which means 40 desecrate... 40*50energy=2,000 Energy!!!

 

Desecrate does not work the way you seem think it does.  You don't need to cast desecrate 40 times for 40 health orbs.  It's an AoE, with a 60% chance per corpse in range.  Theoretically, you can cast it once and get 40 energy orbs.  That's very unlikely, but having to cast it 40 times is even more unlikely.

[Charismo]

Nekros has two main purposes. Survival, and resource farming in low level missions. He's not a frame for doing level 200 content. But, most frames aren't fit for that anyway.

While he is good at the two things you listed, that's just highlighting the problem with him and many of the other frames. Ideally, your frame should be useful relative to your level, no matter the game mode. Whether that be right out of Mercury, or neck deep in level 100+ defense. Some frames can't do that, and that's a problem.

I think before we can really start to argue specifics about the effectiveness of his abilities, there are straight up bugs that need to be fixed. Enemy AI for one thing. It's easy to ignore or completely overlook the poor enemy pathfinding and targeting. With the pacing of Warframe and the sheer number of enemies that you kill at any given time, whether or not a grunt gets stuck under the stairs or runs continuously into a wall is a pretty minor issue. But when you're on the other side, and you're having to rely on that Enemy AI to fight for you, it becomes a pretty glaring problem.

As enemy AI gets better, and problems are fixed, so will problems with abilities like SoTD. There are other things that can be done as well. Having your summoned shadows actually follow you, for instance. Giving them a higher targeting priority on enemies that you're firing at, thereby making them a more effective force multiplier. Possibly even going as far as allowing them to phase through certain terrain objects to avoid glitching on geometry. They're just disembodied souls, right? Let them move around like it. Either way, once the AI issues are addressed, then we will have a more solid baseline of his Ult's strength and usefulness.

Terrify seems to be working as intended. Tho it does run up against some of the same AI issues, all that matters is that it causes enemies to run away. I can think of a few times where it seemed that the effect wasn't applied to enemies it should have affected, but I've not really sat down and tested it. You can argue that the mechanic itself is ineffective and deserves a rework. Personally I'd enjoy it if it were an AOE effect that emanated from your frame as you moved in the same way World on Fire does, causing enemies that got close to you to run away in fear for the duration of the ability. Having a complete dead zone around you while it was in effect would bring it closer to par with abilities like Bastille, and worthy of the casting time and price. Otherwise lower the casting price, or make it recastable.

Desecrate is fun and unique. It can really shine if you build your powers for it. But what if you don't specialize for it? Is it still worth casting? At a certain level, all those health orbs can be burned through really quickly, severely limiting his possible role as a healer. Maybe it would be worth splitting the drop chance between either health orbs, or energy orbs. No matter your level, everyone needs energy orbs.

Soul Punch seems to be in line with other frame's first direct damage abilities. It still suffers from scaling issues at higher levels, but this issue isn't limited to Nekros.

Edited November 6, 2013 by Charismo

[PrismBlack]

Well the Nekros wich I have been using lately finally got him day after Halloween - Is ok some abilities could use a look over

-Soul punch is nice but could say have a cone like backwards explosion from the target widened by say stretch and like mods.

-Terrify could use alittle help it work by allowing a person to use it more but yet not allowing it to stack.

-Desecrate seems ok but I would rather have a travel ability of some sort to switch this with when I am not farming resources in low level areas

-Shadows of the dead should be affected by focus (and like mods) by way of number of shades summoned.

 

Come to think of it I hope they are close to releasing a set of new ability mods for all frames - truthfully I would rather have some new abilities to play with then new weapons or frames atm

[shut]

Sir, if you have had as much experience in the game as I have, Nekros does not need anymore power.  He can be a very late game warframe, and with support from other warframes Nekros makes it easy to last to an hour in survivals.

Please. As a Nekros player, I can safely say that Survival is the only thing he truly excels at. Unlike other Frames, he has the burden of having to think twice about killing an enemy if he wants his "4" skill to be useful, and if he finds a target that he does want to kill, he has to do so before a teammate gets to it. That's not how cooperative gameplay should work, especially for a Frame that lacks offensive capabilities like Nekros.

 

Not to mention that the huge delay on Terrify makes it near useless in huge firefights. At least other Frames are allowed to use their skills when they're needed most.

[Phatose]

While he is good at the two things you listed, that's just highlighting the problem with him and many of the other frames. Ideally, your frame should be useful relative to your level, no matter the game mode. Whether that be right out of Mercury, or neck deep in level 100+ defense. Some frames can't do that, and that's a problem.

 

 

I don't think I agree with that.  There's nothing innately wrong with specialization, and I expect "must be able to do everything" would hurt variety.

[Charismo]

I don't think I agree with that.  There's nothing innately wrong with specialization, and I expect "must be able to do everything" would hurt variety.

 

Right, right. No, I wasn't advocating against specialization, just arguing that Nekros may in fact lack it, or that he doesn't excel in any one particular area. I don't consider "survival missions" to be a excuse. No frame should be completely regulated to one specific mission type, when other frames can excel over the entirety of the game, within their specified roles.