Why Prime Weapons Need Buffs

[Jamescell]

I'm tired, so this won't be the article of the year. Prime weapons are one of the few categories of weapons that are not buy-able through he market. Although void keys are purchasable, buyers are still subject to RNG, and have to complete missions in order to craft what they desire. Along with the fact that these weapons are not pay to win and are extremely hard to get with the broken system of acquisition, is that the lore more or less conflicts with the weapon stats of primes. Orokin tech is supposedly top tier, almost godlike in nature, and that is why the Tenno are such a powerful force, even with so little in numbers. It's also the reason that both the Corpus and Grineer fight to attain relics of the ancient race. Primes may look great, (Frost and Mag Prime excluded) but the stats on the weapons are far from endgame level. The Orokin had tech that current factions in Warframe cannot rival, yet they made mediocre weapons that most players abandon due to lackluster stats upon hitting mastery 7? I find that hard to agree with. Then there is clan tech... clan tech weapons are more or less replicas of weapons from factions Tenno easily hold their own against, factions that in no way rival the Orokin or value elite unit tactics, yet these copied (or in the infested's case, altered) weapons are what DE thinks should be endgame? For example the OGRIS is a less potent version of a weapon mass produced for heavy Grineer units, and that should be endgame level weaponry? Players are not subject to RNG when building clan tech, and are not required to do any work if the clan has carried them, nor actually play the game. Clan tech IS more or less buy-able. Credits, resources , and forwarding building times are all buy able with platinum, prime parts are not. I know few people who own all prime gear, and if they do, most were able to snag each wave before the drop rates dwindled. Anyway... Not sure where I'm going with this. Yeah. Primes should be buffed. Oh and the Prime Frames too. 

[alchemistjkt]

wall of text.

didnt even read.

:D

:D

:D

 

 on topic... sorta:

prime weps need to be better than the non prime/vandal/wraith version.

otherwise, whats the point of wasting all the time to farm and build them?

Edited November 8, 2013 by alchemistjkt

[Jamescell]

^Yeah...I forgot to mention that. More or less my point though, how are modern day Tenno, tinkering with other factions weapons, beating Orokin tech weapons.

[Lactamid]

I do agree on Prime frames only having a 3:rd polarity and being able to get some occational energy from the balls in Void being quite underwhelming. I can agree that some of the prime gear is also rather "meh".

Before i thought that with Prime stuff, maybe we would see prime mods, that would make things different, but... we have not.

 

For now i put my hopes on the damage rework.

 

Edit: one thing though, lets say the Orokin were "God-like" in their time...some 3000 years ago? That is a hell of a long time, even for Grineer and Corpus to evolve. (This would support Clan tech being rather good)
However, the weapons that are Prime usually have a non prime counterpart, suggesting that the Orokin were not gone for very long. or that the weapons now used have been reproduced resembling those...it gets messy.

Edited November 8, 2013 by Lactamid

[CausticFibre]

Agreed.

[Quamobrem]

There don't really need to be explicit tiers, imo. Sidegrades, not upgrades. Prime weapons should be unique and badass, not just "hurr better stat".

The issue is more that clantech weapons are too powerful, and the endgame is a pointless joke. Of course, most of the clantech weapons that are good for the endgame are such because they ignore armor, so hopefully Armor 2.0 will power them down a bit while it ends the endgame being Bullet Sponges: The Game: The Musical.

[alchemistjkt]

I do agree on Prime frames only having a 3:rd polarity and being able to get some occational energy from the balls in Void being quite underwhelming.

 

For now i put my hopes on the damage rework.

im still waiting for them to do like they originally said they would... giving each prime frame an aura (of sorts).

would actually give the frames a point past "bling".

[Jamescell]

I'm not talking about the endgame. I'm talking about weapons viable on high level stuff, aka current endgame.

[alchemistjkt]

I'm not talking about the endgame. I'm talking about weapons viable on high level stuff, aka current endgame.

then there is no point to this thread.

with armor/dmg/element 2.0 on the way, any talk about op/up weps or viability, is just as pointless as beating a well dead horse.

wait till we have the new dmg model, then we can have a real discussion.

[theangelbelow88]

Primes have an extra polarity, better stats and a unique look, and they're not worth farming? Okay....

[Jamescell]

@Alchemist That's what people said when the damage 2.0 was announced what... two updates ago? People use the (damage 2.0 is coming!) thing as an excuse to ignore pretty much anything. Warframe needs development? No it doesn't cuzz damage 2.0! From what I've seen damage 2.0 will not drastically change weapon balance, and definitely will not change how effective primes are IN COMPARISON to other weapons. This isn't about stats is stats IN COMPARISON to everything else. 

Edited November 9, 2013 by Jamescell

[alchemistjkt]

@Alchemist That's what people said when the damage 2.0 was announced what... two updates ago? People use the (damage 2.0 is coming!) thing as an excuse to ignore pretty much anything. Warframe needs development? No it doesn't cuzz damage 2.0!

the only reason why we can say that now is because we have some data about the dmg table.

if we didnt have that little bit, i would be right there at the front asking for crap to be changed.

please do not assume you understand my stance on the issue (by using the ridiculous examples you used).

 

From what I've seen damage 2.0 will not drastically change weapon balance, and definitely will not change how effective primes are IN COMPARISON to other weapons. This isn't about stats is stats IN COMPARISON to everything else. 

they will have to make a balance pass on all weps.

they said they would already.

 

all that aside:

if DE does not do what they said they would, i assure you, there will be hell to pay, and many of us who are saying "lets wait" will be leading the charge.

Edited November 9, 2013 by alchemistjkt

[theangelbelow88]

Prime weapons are one of the few categories of weapons that are not buy-able through he market. Although void keys are purchasable, buyers are still subject to RNG, and have to complete missions in order to craft what they desire. Along with the fact that these weapons are not pay to win and are extremely hard to get with the broken system of acquisition,

You lost me and to some extent sickened me with two thing.

1.) Buying keys: you don't have to buy keys, I have never bought keys and I have most of the prime weapons and frames, my guild helps, recruiting channel helps and when you do mission that give keys, it allows you to help yourself and others.

2.) Now here is the part that kinda sickened me, I quote "Along with the fact that these weapons are not pay", DE never wanted this game to be pay to win by any means, and just because something is hard to acquire doesn't mean it has to be top tier, there are many reason to run void mission, helping others, chance at formas, prime items, rare mods, or just to collect, most of the time people get prime items without even trying, and just because its not "top tier" doesn't mean it isn't good, most of the prime weapon(aside from the S#&$ty Reaper Prime...) Are good all around weapons, and honestly there are very few top tier weapons.

Personaly, I think for the most part prime weapons are fine, some could use a slight re-working but nothing too over the top.

Edited November 9, 2013 by theangelbelow88

[Jamescell]

@theangelbelow You misunderstood me about having to buy keys. I was making the comparison between prime acquisition and clan tech, and that you can buy keys if you want to speed up the process of acquiring prime stuff, but it is not certain, and the keys still need to be used. I did not say what you claim, but since you're so savvy at quoting, try quoting where I say that you need to buy keys. 

 

@ Your "2.)" Formas replace prime drops. Rarer mods than normal missions is debatable. Just to collect? What in the bloody %^&*() does that mean? And they aren't top tier, try looking at the stats. 

 

And really? I don't think you know the definition of disgust, either that or you're hypersensitive. "I disagree with you, that's just so disgusting."

Edited November 9, 2013 by Jamescell

[SquirmyBurrito]

wall of text.

didnt even read.

:D

:D

:D

 

 on topic... sorta:

prime weps need to be better than the non prime/vandal/wraith version.

otherwise, whats the point of wasting all the time to farm and build them?

 

I don't exactly agree one them being better than their vandal/wraith counterpart. Mostly because vandals and wraiths are usually harder to obtain.

[alchemistjkt]

I don't exactly agree one them being better than their vandal/wraith counterpart. Mostly because vandals and wraiths are usually harder to obtain.

"better than the non prime/vandal/wraith version"

(im in agreement with you)

[weirdee]

with the exception of the flux rifle (which just freaking hurts anyway even without mods), the clantech weapons are actually cranked up tenno versions of their enemy counterparts anyway. so they have their excuses for not being the same

 

however, I do agree that the prime weapons should at least be on the same level as the other current high end weapons due to their cost and difficulty of obtaining

[CaveCricket48]

Harder-to-acquire weapons need to be more powerful than easier-to-acquire weapons, is the best way to sum things up, and I agree.

 

And market-buyable weapons should not completely outlcass both clantech AND primes (looking at you, Galatine and Soma).

 

Prime - best

Clantech - medium

Market - worst

 

And Event weapons should range from Clantech to slightly above Prime level, depending on the difficulty of obtaining them.

[Volthorne]

I don't exactly agree one them being better than their vandal/wraith counterpart. Mostly because vandals and wraiths are usually harder to obtain.

Vandal and Wraith versions should be sidegrades to Primed versions. Like a Prime weapon but want a better clip (by trading in accuracy)? Get a Vandal. Want better damage (by trading in RoF)? Get a Wraith.

 

That's how the system SHOULD have been done.

Edited November 9, 2013 by Volthorne

[Quamobrem]

Just to collect? What in the bloody %^&*() does that mean?

 

Exactly what it sounds like. I've got tons of sub-par guns because, since this game lacks a real endgame, I'm able to have the most fun with it by grinding out all kinds of weapons. Right now I'm working on various Clantech and Prime stuff, just because it's cool. Some people like having a variety of weapons for the sake of having them.

[MonkJayn]

no dont make them any better than they are, they are hideously ugly and as such i simply refuse to use them, it already sucks that using the regular versiosn puts me at a slight disadvantage any more would just be unfair, its not like any of them or anything for that matter is hard to get in game anyway, that is unless they allow a skin change to display the regular version and not the god awful gaudy completely non nninja like gold of the primes :P

 

laters

 

Monk

[fatpig84]

There don't really need to be explicit tiers, imo. Sidegrades, not upgrades. Prime weapons should be unique and badass, not just "hurr better stat".

The issue is more that clantech weapons are too powerful, and the endgame is a pointless joke. Of course, most of the clantech weapons that are good for the endgame are such because they ignore armor, so hopefully Armor 2.0 will power them down a bit while it ends the endgame being Bullet Sponges: The Game: The Musical.

I beg to differ.

Clan tech as a whole falls flat barring a handful of weapons.

Like Acrid, Flux, Dual Ichor, uhm Torid and Synapase.

The rest aren't even that good.

Ignis fails at level 100+

Same for Ogris.

Supra lolwut.

Dera, bleh.

Spectra hah

Embroilist lol

Prova uhm just no.

Lanka is imo comparable to the much much cheaper Vectis now (since it has a HIGHER critical rate + HIGHER CRIT damage and 1 free V). Some argue Lanka is far worse since Vectis can "make use" of the chamber mods and is insta hit.

Oh well.

Edited November 9, 2013 by fatpig84

[Pizzarugi]

Keep in mind primed weapons/frames are simply that: Primed. They are existing weapons/frames upgraded through the use of Orokin technology, they are not entirely Orokin. Just like Captain Vor's seer pistol. It is more or less a primed weapon since it incorporates Orokin tech into its design.

 

Think of Borderlands 2 as an example. Corporations took existing weapons and modified some of them with eridium to make them function differently or function better overall than their original counterparts.

 

And here's something to consider:

Both Corpus and Grineer salvage Orokin derelicts (Corpus more than Grineer) for technology and artifacts. It's quite likely the reason Corpus/Grineer weapons are getting so great lately compared to prime weapons is because the weapons use Orokin tech. Or simply constructed/blueprinted with the assistance of Orokin devices for greater efficiency.

 

That said, buffing primed weapons can only be done to an extent, but it becomes problematic for some people if they begin to excel the efficiency of other, newer weapons. If DE buffs bronco prime for instance, people who busted their &#! to get the brakk are not gonna be happy if it winds up being weaker than the now-buffed weapon. Same if they buffed boar prime to do just as good if not better than strun wraith.

[Wolfstorm18]

Wall of text.

 

But I read it.

 

And I agree entirely. All Prime weapons should be buffed, except the Orthos Prime which was already buffed.

[Jamescell]

Forgot to mention the open-market, easily built, new Tenno weapons are infinitely better than the primes.