new/changed augments: removing energy cost can be a NERF

[sunderthefirmament]

4 minutes ago, Kaichi16 said:

it's literally a 10m AoE xD a gram prime with primed reach and spring-loaded blade can reach 8m, is it a nuke too? with a riven, it can reach even more... you also dont have to aim, just spam E

i think the highest range weapon we have is kuva ogris, with 15m... nice range and big power, it could be considered a nuke, maybe... ~if we count nova's 2 as a nuke~

nukes IMO: saryn's 4 (20m BASE range and 4x extra damage to enemies affected by spore), equinox's 4 (18m BASE range and infinite damage potential), ... maybe explosive legerdemain? i mean, even if it has 8m base range, you can increase it and it affects base 40m around you. it's like creating mines in a huge area... maybe it's not a nuke, but it's way above a basic AoE weapon.

depending on the build thermal sunder counts too... it has base 12m range, but with enough range, it can easily reach over 20m and do a very nice amount of damage do low/mid content. 

I don't know where you're pulling this 10m from.  Don't you use Primed Firestorm?  Also, the bomblets spread.  And they penetrate walls.

 

Semantics aside, I deal way more damage and get way more kills than your average nuke frame in most exterminates.  Saryns will have an advantage on ESO and survival missions, sure.  But for general purposes, the bramma is incredibly effective at AOE destruction.  And so are most other AOE weapons, which is why nerf threads pop up so often.

[Kaichi16]

2 minutes ago, sunderthefirmament said:

I don't know where you're pulling this 10m from.  Don't you use Primed Firestorm?  Also, the bomblets spread.  And they penetrate walls.

 

Semantics aside, I deal way more damage and get way more kills than your average nuke frame in most exterminates.  Saryns will have an advantage on ESO and survival missions, sure.  But for general purposes, the bramma is incredibly effective at AOE destruction.  And so are most other AOE weapons, which is why nerf threads pop up so often.

8.3 + 66% = 13.7 

but okay then, everybody has different definitions... i just think like while you have to shoot over and over to multiple directions, a saryn 4 can kill many enemies in one press, like a nuclear weapon does. (kills lots of enemies in a large area in one hit). it's not a competition, it's about the word definition itself. 

 

i think AoE weapons became so effective because of DE's mismanagement of self-damage. other games can easily make self damage as a decent mechanic, but DE is either 1 or 100. have it or not. self-stagger is a crappy mechanic ~that only affects tenno, weirdly... enemies have explosive weapons too, DE~ that can be EASILY negated with a single mod/ability.

when you don't properly think about what you're introducing, this happens.

introduces shieldgating to stop 1-hit kills = people abusing it IN SORTIES just because it's easier to use than any other survivability tool (yes i saw that lol not only once).

introduces self-stagger to counter the benefits of AoE weapons and as a sucessor of self-damage = people easily negate it with 1 mod and abuse AoE weapons. 

the weapon isnt the problem, the whole situation that lead to this is.

[sunderthefirmament]

2 minutes ago, Kaichi16 said:

8.3 + 66% = 13.7 

It might be bigger than you think.  And I really don't think that 8.3 takes the bomblets into account.

 

From the wiki:

 

An increase of 66% in blast radius adds up to a 175.6% increase in the total blast area and a 357.4% increase in total blast volume.

[Perfectly_Framed_Waifu]

3 hours ago, Kaichi16 said:

wikipedia about nuke ↓

Quote

For example, to some individuals, to "nuke" is to deal the most possible damage to the most enemies possible (almost exclusively by means of an area of effect skill), whereas other individuals use the term by referring to the highest possible damage to a single target in the shortest amount of time, also known as a spike. Some individuals believe that the player, or players, nuking must do so by means of ranged combat (that is, out of melee range); others make no such distinction. It can also mean to critical hit often or just to deal high standard damage.

everybody has their definition, but based on the potential of warframe, i think we should use the "nuke" word a bit better.

if a kuva bramma that hits 10m is a nuke, what is saryn's 4 with max range? a over-nuke? nuke 2.0? lol

I like how you gave a third party quote and immediately ignored it. Even with its smaller range, the Bramma typically deals more damage to all enemies in its area than Saryn's 4 deals to all enemies in its area. Thus, by the definition above, the Bramma would be more of a nuke than Miasma. (And no, Miasma's effect on Spores doesn't make it a nuke - it makes it a damage amp for a DoT.) So, lol.

"Nuke" is quite a simple term to grasp - big damage over large area over short time. Miasma's large area, non-short time, alright damage. Bramma's big damage, decent area, short time (and non-short from Munitions).

[Zekkii]

7 hours ago, Kaichi16 said:

8.3 + 66% = 13.7 

Keep in mind that's the radius, the diameter is 27.6m.

[Birdframe_Prime]

13 hours ago, Kaichi16 said:

but the heal already applies to hydroid himself, doesnt it? 

Current mod just says 'allies', the new description that leaked says that it applies [heal amount] to Hydroid, maybe they mean it restores a burst similar to Oberon's Renewal in addition to the heal over time?