Lutesque Posted April 5, 2022 Author Share Posted April 5, 2022 1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said: It still wouldnt matter since you'd need to kill every single target individually if they survive long enough for the bubble to take effect. Say you have 10 enemies lined up in a row that can take more than 1 hit, then all of a sudden your chromatic blade gets stopped by the first enemy in that line due to the bubble, resulting in a massive slowdown in killing. Chromatic Blade is pretty Underwhelming Anyway.... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said: Whisper is really only good for single target weapons, and even there it can hinder performace if a body shot happens to land the void proc. It's good for AoE Weapons too.... 1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said: Whisper is really only good for single target weapons, and even there it can hinder performace if a body shot happens to land the void proc. Roar works for everything and doesnt risk hindering your damage output. It sure is a hoot when you face a Noximus or Nox Demo high up in the levels and happen to use whisper and get off an unlucky bubble at the wrong bodypart, same deal for certain bursa demos. Yep, lets keep dealing those 0's of damage or extremely low numbers as it goes beep-beep-beep, and lets hope one of those other shots didnt further proc another bubble on the wrong bodypart. Hey even if you don't kill the Nox atleast he still won't be able to shoot you anymore.... Besides.... It's no Different with Roar.... Shooting the wrong part of the Nox is still not going to kill it even with Double Dipping.... 1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said: But it does in fact deal Void Damage, it just doesnt work versus eidolons etc. Then it's not Void Damage.... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said: But it still deals the damage type when it comes to resistances of enemies and the proc itself, which is innate to void damage as a damage type. I'm not sure which damage type you think it inflicts otherwise? Since we don't care about the actual Damage it Deals then we can call it Chocolate Damage for all I care.... All that matters is that it's not Void Damage... Void Damage is the only thing that Damages Eidolon Shields.... Anything that doesn't do that obviously is not Void Damage.... 😝 1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said: Yes, it very much depends on the weapon used. It is terrible on weapons that already effect an area and are projectile based/can be sucked up by the bubble, since it completely removes the point of using those types of weapons in the first place. Yeah I used to think that too.... But it turns out you actually can use that to your Advantage.... Aznvasion made a void showing a build that does utilize Xata's Whisper on AoE weapons.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SneakyErvin Posted April 6, 2022 Share Posted April 6, 2022 22 hours ago, Lutesque said: Chromatic Blade is pretty Underwhelming Anyway.... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ It's good for AoE Weapons too.... Hey even if you don't kill the Nox atleast he still won't be able to shoot you anymore.... Besides.... It's no Different with Roar.... Shooting the wrong part of the Nox is still not going to kill it even with Double Dipping.... Then it's not Void Damage.... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Since we don't care about the actual Damage it Deals then we can call it Chocolate Damage for all I care.... All that matters is that it's not Void Damage... Void Damage is the only thing that Damages Eidolon Shields.... Anything that doesn't do that obviously is not Void Damage.... 😝 Yeah I used to think that too.... But it turns out you actually can use that to your Advantage.... Aznvasion made a void showing a build that does utilize Xata's Whisper on AoE weapons.... But why use it as an example as something Whisper syncs well with? Whisper has its uses, but on the type of attacks that EB and CB represent it just doesnt have those uses. Just as there is no reason to use it on AoE guns. What projectile do you want to attract exactly on an AoE gun? As to the Nox, yeah if you aim poorly you'll hit another spot... but it doesnt force you to land all following shots in that same bad spot for several seconds, that is the whole issue with Whisper. And if the Nox shooting at you is a problem, then maybe it would be wise to start using the roll move. So you claim something isnt void damage because it doesnt work against eidolons, or can reset resistances? So how about Whisper being able to hurt eidolon health and sentients all the same while amps are restricted to damaging eidolon shields and sentients only? Or paracesis that shares a key trait with void damage, which is resistance reset, but it doesnt deal the damage type nor has the proc that comes with it? Being able to hurt eidolon shields is the very last thing that was added to void damage, or more accurately amps. And a video shows what exactly? Does he extensively compare Whisper to the performance of other skills or simply compared to not using whisper at all? Yes sure, you can utilize Whisper on AoE guns, but it is not a good option except for the utility in the skill. No one has implied otherwise. What is implied is that it isnt some new particuarly universal great skill, it is just an option and people do not sleep on it, they simply decide not to use it because they dont need it or dont want the massive drawbacks that come with it. I've used it on a few frames myself, on gun builds. Both Roar and Smite Infusion outperforms it on those same builds since I just dont need the defense that Whisper provides. It lacks in both upfront damage and as an attrition skill. And if the frame I wanna buff the damage on has atleast 1 damaging skill, I will without a doubt pick Roar since it buffs that skill aswell and not just guns/melee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh486 Posted April 6, 2022 Share Posted April 6, 2022 On 2022-04-05 at 9:05 AM, Lutesque said: Aznvasion made a void showing a build that does utilize Xata's Whisper on AoE weapons.... Why do you keep bringing up Azn as if he uses xata’s all the time? It’s a niche ability, if it wasn’t it’d be on all his builds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)jaggerwanderer Posted April 6, 2022 Share Posted April 6, 2022 For one thing, the bubble spawn at weird places on the enemy. Go fight Sargas Ruk with the ability. Another thing is tons of enemies dies before you even get to see the bubble. Especially when you have team mates. Hmm.. I think it works on Kuva Clouds. It's been a while since I've use Xata's Whisper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lutesque Posted April 6, 2022 Author Share Posted April 6, 2022 7 hours ago, SneakyErvin said: But why use it as an example as something Whisper syncs well with? Why not ? I've always wanted to try it... 😝 7 hours ago, SneakyErvin said: What projectile do you want to attract exactly on an AoE gun? The Bramma and The Zarr.... 7 hours ago, SneakyErvin said: As to the Nox, yeah if you aim poorly you'll hit another spot... but it doesnt force you to land all following shots in that same bad spot for several seconds, that is the whole issue with Whisper. And if the Nox shooting at you is a problem, then maybe it would be wise to start using the roll move. It will simply shoot you while you are Rolling.... Have you never played Warframe before ? Enemies don't miss.... 7 hours ago, SneakyErvin said: So you claim something isnt void damage because it doesnt work against eidolons, or can reset resistances? Do you know of anything Thing Else that can hurt Eidolon Shields ? 7 hours ago, SneakyErvin said: So how about Whisper being able to hurt eidolon health and sentients all the same while amps are restricted to damaging eidolon shields and sentients only? You do realise EVERYTHING can hurt Eidolon's Health ? 🤔 7 hours ago, SneakyErvin said: Or paracesis that shares a key trait with void damage, which is resistance reset, but it doesnt deal the damage type nor has the proc that comes with it? Am I suppose to Care ? No Shield Damage = Not Void Damage.... It really is that Simple... 7 hours ago, SneakyErvin said: Being able to hurt eidolon shields is the very last thing that was added to void damage, or more accurately amps. You point being ? Wether it got added first or last the Defining Trait of Void Damage is it's Ability To Damage Eidolon Shields... Anything that Doesn't do that Isn't Void Damage.... It's the same Deal with True Damage.... It deals Damage directly to Health.... Anything that doesn't Do That Simply isn't True Damage.... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ As if Warframe wasn't confusing Enough Already..... 7 hours ago, SneakyErvin said: And a video shows what exactly? Does he extensively compare Whisper to the performance of other skills or simply compared to not using whisper at all? I don't remember... I only watched it once.... 7 hours ago, SneakyErvin said: What is implied is that it isnt some new particuarly universal great skill, it is just an option and people do not sleep on it, they simply decide not to use it because they dont need it or dont want the massive drawbacks that come with it. You just Described exactly how people are sleeping on it.... It's not Xata's Whispers Fault if people are not using Weapons that Compliment it any more than it would be if you do the samething with Ivara or Harrow.... I slept on Xata's Whisper because I didn't know these Things.... 8 hours ago, SneakyErvin said: I've used it on a few frames myself, on gun builds. Both Roar and Smite Infusion outperforms it on those same builds since I just dont need the defense that Whisper provides. Which Builds ? 🤔 7 hours ago, Josh486 said: Why do you keep bringing up Azn as if he uses xata’s all the time? It’s a niche ability, if it wasn’t it’d be on all his builds. I only bring up that one content Creator because he's the only one Ive seen making atleast 4 Videos about it..... The others only made one or simply didn't Bother At All.... 6 hours ago, (PSN)jaggerwanderer said: For one thing, the bubble spawn at weird places on the enemy. Go fight Sargas Ruk with the ability. Another thing is tons of enemies dies before you even get to see the bubble. Especially when you have team mates. Hmm.. I think it works on Kuva Clouds. It's been a while since I've use Xata's Whisper. It's actually pretty Difficult to tell exactly where the Bubble Is Attached too from what little Testing I did the Enemies are always Encase inside the Bubble directly in the Centre.... I don't know exactly where it's Attached.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)jaggerwanderer Posted April 9, 2022 Share Posted April 9, 2022 The bubble is just a visual. The actually part bullets gravitate to isn't really shown. It's even worse with pellet base guns since it's damn impossible to tell which pellet hit first. Xata's Whisper also have funny interaction with beam weapons too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berzerkules Posted April 9, 2022 Share Posted April 9, 2022 On 2022-04-05 at 3:05 AM, SneakyErvin said: It sure is a hoot when you face a Noximus or Nox Demo high up in the levels and happen to use whisper and get off an unlucky bubble at the wrong bodypart, On 2022-04-05 at 5:05 AM, Lutesque said: Hey even if you don't kill the Nox atleast he still won't be able to shoot you anymore.... What's the point of arguing about the effects of xata's whisper on a Nox when you can't actually proc void status on a Nox with Xata's Whisper or an amp. The closest you can do is Unairu magnetic blast but that's just a mini mag bubble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SneakyErvin Posted April 9, 2022 Share Posted April 9, 2022 On 2022-04-06 at 10:46 PM, Lutesque said: Why not ? I've always wanted to try it... 😝 The Bramma and The Zarr.... It will simply shoot you while you are Rolling.... Have you never played Warframe before ? Enemies don't miss.... Do you know of anything Thing Else that can hurt Eidolon Shields ? You do realise EVERYTHING can hurt Eidolon's Health ? 🤔 Am I suppose to Care ? No Shield Damage = Not Void Damage.... It really is that Simple... You point being ? Wether it got added first or last the Defining Trait of Void Damage is it's Ability To Damage Eidolon Shields... Anything that Doesn't do that Isn't Void Damage.... It's the same Deal with True Damage.... It deals Damage directly to Health.... Anything that doesn't Do That Simply isn't True Damage.... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ As if Warframe wasn't confusing Enough Already..... I don't remember... I only watched it once.... You just Described exactly how people are sleeping on it.... It's not Xata's Whispers Fault if people are not using Weapons that Compliment it any more than it would be if you do the samething with Ivara or Harrow.... I slept on Xata's Whisper because I didn't know these Things.... Which Builds ? 🤔 Wanting Whisper on Bramma and Zarr kinda removes what makes them so good, which is the very wide spread of multiple hits inflicting massive damage, slash and other dot procs. Centering it all on a single mob will be overkill while also gimping the range from several individual spread AoE splashes to multiple centered splashes under 1 target, a target that will likely get hit by the splashes eitherway. You are aware that rolling away from a Nox effecitvely makes it not deal any damage right? Since it needs the goo-balls to expload to deal any real damage to you, and rolling makes those fall off and do nothing. "Everything" cant hurt eidolons, one of those things being amps, along with void powered warframe abilities. So where is the line drawn between what is and isnt void? It deals the damage type, treats enemy resistances as the damage type and it procs the status of the damage type, thus it is void damage. Whatever external mechanics are applied to fights individually to counter certain cheese does not change that. A 25% void damage bonus applied to a weapon being allowed to hurt shields would be insanely imbalanced given all other stats it would combine with before the final damage instance is produced against the eidolon. You are also wrong on true damage since it does not avoid shields. So again an example of the game changing damage types based on balance while the damage type is still the damage type. So in your reasoning, Toxin is in reality true damage since it directly attacks health through shields, while slash attacks health directly through armor but not directly through shields. It isnt sleeping on something when you effectively avoid it to avoid drawbacks it brings. Sleeping on it would imply it being universaly good and just overlooked cos reasons. People are very aware of why they do or do not use it. Like I said initially which you seem to have ignored or missed, it isnt a bad skill, it is just specific. If you need pure damage it will not be the option to go for, if you need the utility it brings, then yeah it is a good subsitute for other things if you also want some damage. Which builds? Pretty much any gun or melee build I've used since I dont need the void bubble for protection and it doesnt improve damaging statuses or bring the upfront damage of smite. with pretty basic strength investments Whisper ends up at 50% void damage, at the same time smite infusion adds 200% radiation damage for a frontload build. On status builds the same strength investment adds 75% double dip damage through Roar, mostly on weapons that cannot even bounce in the bubble. And on Tarca Plasmor, Zarr, Lacer and Catchmoon I just gimp my AoE coverage by having the massive projectiles or bomblets consumed by a bubble. 8 hours ago, Berzerkules said: What's the point of arguing about the effects of xata's whisper on a Nox when you can't actually proc void status on a Nox with Xata's Whisper or an amp. The closest you can do is Unairu magnetic blast but that's just a mini mag bubble. That really depends on if the fishbowl is gone or not, which is the moment you really just wanna finish it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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