Being helped or being alone?

[(PSN)KyomaSatomi]

THis is game related but also somewhat more general and I hope people do understand where I'm coming from.

One thing that is eating at me for quite a while is that I have a problem with my builds. Despite me playing RPGs for quite a while, I never really got an eye for the numbers game or for synergies between characters and equipment.

In Warframe, this means I barely see any synergies between frames, weapons, mods and abilities unless some explicitly tells me. As a result, my builds are usually more than generic as I mainly go with which stats support most of the abilities. It also means that I mainly use abilities as is unless someone tells me how they synergize.

That said, looking into guides or having others tell me how these things work doesn't sit right with me either. It makes me feel like I am taking advantage of the work others put into coming up with those builds or looking for those synergies. I'm always thinking that this is something I am supposed to work out myself (while at the same time barely being able to).

This might sound stupid, but this puts me in somewhat of a pickle.
(it also doesn't help that I still have hesitation using certain mods)

Feedback on this is highly appreciated

[Tyreaus]

16 minutes ago, (PSN)KyomaSatomi said:

That said, looking into guides or having others tell me how these things work doesn't sit right with me either. It makes me feel like I am taking advantage of the work others put into coming up with those builds or looking for those synergies. I'm always thinking that this is something I am supposed to work out myself (while at the same time barely being able to).

I think an analogy might be someone doing mathematics with a calculator. You're "taking advantage" of someone's hard work by doing so. But I don't think many, aside from a few elderly curmudgeons, would begrudge you doing so because you can't figure it out in your head. Humans are both tool-builders and social creatures. Using external things to supplement or enhance our capabilities is kind of our thing. Helping others do that is also our thing. Doing all the things all by ourselves? An impressive rarity, but far from a standard.

Moreover, I think it's wrong to say you're taking advantage of the work others put into things. They built those guides for that reason. You are literally fulfilling the purpose behind them publishing that work. That could be literally, in terms of Youtube views, or more psychologically. But whatever the other rationales, the breakdown is that they published it for you to read and use.

[(PSN)KyomaSatomi]

vor 4 Stunden schrieb Tyreaus:

Moreover, I think it's wrong to say you're taking advantage of the work others put into things. They built those guides for that reason. You are literally fulfilling the purpose behind them publishing that work. That could be literally, in terms of Youtube views, or more psychologically. But whatever the other rationales, the breakdown is that they published it for you to read and use.

I know these people spend lots of time and effort trying to figure all that stuff out, only for me to come in and take what they have worked for without doing anything for it myself.
At least, that's how it looks for me.

And there is another part to it I haven't yet talked about. When I have to look up a guide because I can't do something on my own, it always does feel like a defeat for me. Like I am not capable of holding my own without outside help.

[Tyreaus]

1 hour ago, (PSN)KyomaSatomi said:

I know these people spend lots of time and effort trying to figure all that stuff out, only for me to come in and take what they have worked for without doing anything for it myself.
At least, that's how it looks for me.

Well, to be honest, if you're watching a Youtube guide, you're literally helping the person make money. They make bucks off views, after all. Even if not, to hear it's helping people is often reward enough. Some people are genuinely altruistic and get their rocks off from being kind. :) It's also the fact that you aren't taking what they've worked on. They've made a copy and thrown it in your lap. They could have kept it to themselves but they decided to share it with everyone. You picking up that guide is exactly what they want. _{And you've fallen right into their trap...}

1 hour ago, (PSN)KyomaSatomi said:

And there is another part to it I haven't yet talked about. When I have to look up a guide because I can't do something on my own, it always does feel like a defeat for me. Like I am not capable of holding my own without outside help.

An aerospace engineer is not capable of fixing his broken arm without help from a doctor. He hasn't been defeated, he is working within the confines of human capability. And humans are like puzzle pieces. We all have different shapes of what we're capable of. Some people are spectacular mathematicians and horrible public relations people. Some are the best party organizers on planet Earth but couldn't sit through reading a science paper if their life depended on it. And, in the grand scheme of things, someone has to make up those individual differences - just like puzzle pieces.

What you see as defeat is simply the shape of your potential. Someone, at some point, is meant to fill in that part to continue building the whole. The guides you find are perfect examples. And, likewise, you'll have skills and knowledge that'll fill in part of where someone else is lacking. Maybe it's in Warframe, maybe it's somewhere else in life. They pass on their potential, and so on, and so forth, throughout all of human society. There is nothing shameful about being part of the flow. Those connections are what brings the whole picture together.

[Lutesque]

12 hours ago, (PSN)KyomaSatomi said:

Feedback on this is highly appreciated

Warframe is Bad at explaining Things....

So yeah.... Do whatever you want with That Information... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

8 hours ago, (PSN)KyomaSatomi said:

I know these people spend lots of time and effort trying to figure all that stuff out, only for me to come in and take what they have worked for without doing anything for it myself.
At least, that's how it looks for me.

And there is another part to it I haven't yet talked about. When I have to look up a guide because I can't do something on my own, it always does feel like a defeat for me. Like I am not capable of holding my own without outside help.

Well.... Here's something I do....

I look up a Good and Confirm with The Wiki....

But instead of Copying The Build Whole Sale.... I use my now Much Better Understanding of the Abilities to make my Own Build....

A Guide will Tell you that Duration and Efficiency are Good For Ivara but I prefer Range and Strength because that Works better for the way I use her in the Content that I normally do....

That's why I have no issues putting 3 Umbral Polarities on the Warframe's I like Most....

The Same goes for Weapons....

Guides will tell you that you don't have to Use Serration anymore since you can Get your Base Damage from The Arcanes....  

I myself use Both simply because Arcanes like Merciless are more Difficult to build up and maintain than people think....

 

Basically what I'm saying is.... You're not looking these things Up just to copy them Whole Sale.... 

You just look them up so you can Understand how they work.... Then you can build it to your Preferences....

12 hours ago, (PSN)KyomaSatomi said:

This might sound stupid, but this puts me in somewhat of a pickle.
(it also doesn't help that I still have hesitation using certain mods)

I think the Reason why you feel this way is Because most Guides Actually Don't Explain in detail why they use the Mods they do.... And how the Abilities/Weapons Actually Work....

I can name 4 Popular Content Creators that Do this....  But I won't....

I will say that if you really want to Understand how something Works.... Check Out The Kengineer's Videos....

Here's a nice one:

I used what I learned in this Video to just achieve the same Result without having to Use the Exact same Items in the Video.... Because the Video explicitly Stated that the main Weakness of Liches is anything that is Not Factored into the Damage Attenuation Formula.....

In this case it's Head Shot Multipliers.....

 

[(PSN)KyomaSatomi]

vor 9 Stunden schrieb Lutesque:

But instead of Copying The Build Whole Sale.... I use my now Much Better Understanding of the Abilities to make my Own Build....

I've made the experience that my understanding of abilities, mods, arcanes and synergies is actually rather poor.

Yet I also hesitate to just ask other people to tell me their understanding because I don't feel I'm not in the position to ask for something I haven't tried to grasp in the way they most likely have done.

I could wreck my brain get to the other's level eventually, but at the likely cost of taking out the fun of the game for me.

vor 9 Stunden schrieb Lutesque:

I think the Reason why you feel this way is Because most Guides Actually Don't Explain in detail why they use the Mods they do.... And how the Abilities/Weapons Actually Work....

My general gripe with the mods I'm referring to is the fact that they hurt one stat while buffing another. That stat penalty was something I have never really gotten on board with in any system where you can change stats on your characters.

[(XBOX)TehChubbyDugan]

You're putting artificial limitations on yourself in the form of not wanting to use mods (which are in the game so totally fair play.) and not wanting to use help from others.  There is no point in doing this in a game or in life.  We have a whole profession of teachers for a reason.  It is easier to learn from someone who already knows.  If you use any kind of math or science or technology in your life, you are 100% piggybacking on the success of others, and that is fine.  That's the whole point of having communities and not all living completely alone.

On top of that, in terms of in-game explanations for how things work, this might be the worst game I have ever played in terms of telling players what the mechanics are.  After years of playing this game it really feels like they leave the explanations absent or vague on purpose because someone at DE has this idea that the fun in a game is failing because you have no idea what's going on.

[(PSN)KyomaSatomi]

vor 21 Minuten schrieb (XBOX)TehChubbyDugan:

You're putting artificial limitations on yourself in the form of not wanting to use mods (which are in the game so totally fair play.) and not wanting to use help from others.  There is no point in doing this in a game or in life.  We have a whole profession of teachers for a reason.  It is easier to learn from someone who already knows.  If you use any kind of math or science or technology in your life, you are 100% piggybacking on the success of others, and that is fine.  That's the whole point of having communities and not all living completely alone.

On top of that, in terms of in-game explanations for how things work, this might be the worst game I have ever played in terms of telling players what the mechanics are.  After years of playing this game it really feels like they leave the explanations absent or vague on purpose because someone at DE has this idea that the fun in a game is failing because you have no idea what's going on.

I guess a good part of it has to do with my fear of failing a task and not being considered being up for the task I'm given.

I just feel that I should be able to get by on my own, even if I am struggling miserably. Because that still would be better than having others help me out and consider me not fit for the task. (a feeling that I get quite regularly irl)
(I did make another post about that very matter some time ago.

This is also not helped by me being a rather solitary player. I usually play the game either solo or in a PUG. I don't really have friends to run missions with, nor am I really looking for people to reliably team up with.

[stormy505]

On 2022-04-30 at 11:29 AM, (PSN)KyomaSatomi said:

THis is game related but also somewhat more general and I hope people do understand where I'm coming from.

One thing that is eating at me for quite a while is that I have a problem with my builds. Despite me playing RPGs for quite a while, I never really got an eye for the numbers game or for synergies between characters and equipment.

In Warframe, this means I barely see any synergies between frames, weapons, mods and abilities unless some explicitly tells me. As a result, my builds are usually more than generic as I mainly go with which stats support most of the abilities. It also means that I mainly use abilities as is unless someone tells me how they synergize.

That said, looking into guides or having others tell me how these things work doesn't sit right with me either. It makes me feel like I am taking advantage of the work others put into coming up with those builds or looking for those synergies. I'm always thinking that this is something I am supposed to work out myself (while at the same time barely being able to).

This might sound stupid, but this puts me in somewhat of a pickle.
(it also doesn't help that I still have hesitation using certain mods)

Feedback on this is highly appreciated

The forma system actively deters experimentation, the build time, resources used in them and just the leveling process in general are awful and make you want to spend the least time possible on them. No one should blame you for taking someone else's build in this game.

[RazerXPrime]

On 2022-04-30 at 8:29 PM, (PSN)KyomaSatomi said:

THis is game related but also somewhat more general and I hope people do understand where I'm coming from.

One thing that is eating at me for quite a while is that I have a problem with my builds. Despite me playing RPGs for quite a while, I never really got an eye for the numbers game or for synergies between characters and equipment.

In Warframe, this means I barely see any synergies between frames, weapons, mods and abilities unless some explicitly tells me. As a result, my builds are usually more than generic as I mainly go with which stats support most of the abilities. It also means that I mainly use abilities as is unless someone tells me how they synergize.

That said, looking into guides or having others tell me how these things work doesn't sit right with me either. It makes me feel like I am taking advantage of the work others put into coming up with those builds or looking for those synergies. I'm always thinking that this is something I am supposed to work out myself (while at the same time barely being able to).

This might sound stupid, but this puts me in somewhat of a pickle.
(it also doesn't help that I still have hesitation using certain mods)

Feedback on this is highly appreciated

Do you have access to simulacrum? Playing in squads during hectic missions can make it hard to see what is working and what is not. If you have simulacrum you can test stuff out at your leisure. Nothing wrong with checking other builds, but you should at least understand how they work. 

The game has a built in section where you can read up on abilities. Go into your arsenal and check the abilities of the frame. It's the bottom option hovering over your frame name. On the next screen on the right side you'll see "Tips". Hover over it to see what abilities work together for that frame.

Everything else comes with experience and some experimentation.

[(XBOX)TehChubbyDugan]

On 2022-05-01 at 3:34 PM, (PSN)KyomaSatomi said:

I guess a good part of it has to do with my fear of failing a task and not being considered being up for the task I'm given.

I just feel that I should be able to get by on my own, even if I am struggling miserably. Because that still would be better than having others help me out and consider me not fit for the task. (a feeling that I get quite regularly irl)
(I did make another post about that very matter some time ago.

This is also not helped by me being a rather solitary player. I usually play the game either solo or in a PUG. I don't really have friends to run missions with, nor am I really looking for people to reliably team up with.

Every job I have ever had, I have ended up teaching what I do (welding) to new hires.  You can 100% learn to weld without anyone teaching you, it just takes longer.  But why?  Once they're good, they're good of their own accord.  They put in the work to get there, even if it was me or someone else that showed them a better way.

If you have someone come in the room and play the game for you, yeah, that's you not doing it.  If you have someone teach you what you're doing wrong, regardless of how much they help, eventually those abilities are yours and only yours.