Felarx - Pretty Bad

[TnaneverRisen]

The Felarx just doesn't compare to the other Incarnon guns.  A player has to spend a lot of forma and put in a lot more playing effort into making it function decently, and it's still far behind the brain-dead ease of use of the others.  Somehow the Incarnon Form is worse than the normal form.  I don't get what DE was going for here.

Something like these changes could put it on the same level as the others:

-Base projectile speed should be around 30% faster (both normal and Incarnon form).
-Base magazine size (normal form) should be higher - maybe 8 or 10.
-It should reload 2 shells at a time, and get the bugged fake shell reload animation fixed.
-Incarnon Form - Give it about 50% more damage, and either explode on impact or have infinite punchthrough.

[gamingchair1121]

you know that the incarnon form has worse stats in almost everything

[TnaneverRisen]

5 hours ago, gamingchair1121 said:

you know that the incarnon form has worse stats in almost everything

...yeah, that's what I said.  I don't know what DE was thinking.

[bnuy]

Here are my suggestions for Felarx changes copied from a thread of mine.

I revamped the evolution tree as well because it's got plenty of issues!
 

Felarx Shotgun Mode Changes:

• magazine capacity increased to 9
• status chance increased to 6.0%
• reload animations tweaked
  • 'per shell' reduced to 0.3s
  • 'end time' reduced to 0.5s
  • total reload time remains unchanged at 3.7s
     

Felarx Incarnon Mode Changes:

• now has two Incarnon pistols with unique stats, both fire independently of one another
  • can spend Incarnon charge firing the Incarnon weapon of your choice that aligns with your build
• Incarnon mode transform animation time reduced to 0.4s
  • animation speed is affected by reload speed
     
• Left Hand: 'Corruption' (left mouse button to shoot)
  • Accuracy: 7.5
  • Fall-off: 12.0m (0%) - 24.0m (99%)
  • Fire-rate: 1.0
  • Punch Through: none
  • Damage: 2,000
    • 400 Impact
    • 400 Puncture
    • 1,200 Radiation
    • damage divided amongst multishot pellets 
  • Multishot: 10.0
  • Critical Chance: 8.0%
  • Critical Multiplier: 1.8x
  • Status Chance: 32.0%
    • per pellet
       
• Right Hand: 'Purity' (middle mouse button to shoot)
  • Accuracy: 11.0
  • Fall-off: none
  • Fire-rate: 2.20
  • Punch Through: 2.0m
  • Damage: 1,400
    • 200 Puncture
    • 200 Slash
    • 1,000 Radiation
    • damage divided amongst multishot pellets 
  • Multishot: 4.0
  • Critical Chance: 30.0%
  • Critical Multiplier: 3.0x
  • Status Chance: 6.0%
    • per pellet

Felarx Incarnon Charge Changes:

• Incarnon Charge gained on headshot increased to 6.25%
  • maximum Incarnon Charge requires 16 headshots to reach
• maximum Incarnon Charge has been reduced
  • maximum Incarnon Charge is a total of 2 shots
• Incarnon mode swapping no longer consumes remaining Incarnon Charge
   

Felarx Evolution Changes:

• Tier 1:
  • Unlocks Incarnon mode.
     
• Tier 2: 
  • (Tweaked) 'Elemental Excess'
    • +10% status chance, -10% critical chance
      • bonuses apply per pellet
  • (Tweaked) 'Kinetic Baffle'
    • -30% recoil, +25% firerate
  • (Tweaked) 'Attuned Accuracy'
    • +30% accuracy, +2.0m punch through
       
• Tier 3:
  • (New!) 'Draining Touch'
    • on hit gain 5.0% Incarnon Charge for each unique status afflicting the enemy
  • (New!) 'Marksman's Efficiency'
    • each pellet from a shot that hits an enemy beyond the first grants 5.0% Incarnon Charge
      • first hit on an enemy per shot grants nothing, every further hit grants 5.0%
      • if four pellets hit one target you gain 15.0% Incarnon Charge
  • (New!) 'Echoing Eclipse'
    • Incarnon mode headshots have a 15% chance to refill 50% of Felarx's magazine
      • can only trigger once per shot
         
• Tier 4:
  • (New!) 'Lucky Shells'
    • On Pellet Punch-through 2 Enemies: +50% ammo efficiency for 6.0s
  • (New!) 'Repeating Rhythm'
    • On Reload or Mode-swap: +75% fire-rate for 4.0s
  • (New!) 'Gunslinger's Stead'
    • On 2 Head Hits in one Shot: +30% reload speed for 4.0s (stacks 3x, +90% maximum)
      • can only trigger once per shot
      • stacks fall off one at a time
         
• Tier 5: 
  • (Tweaked) 'Devastating Attrition'
    • On Non-critical Hit: 50% chance for +350% total damage to hit
  • (New!) 'Festering Torment'
    • On Hitting 2 Enemies in one Shot: +500% status damage for 4.0s
  • (New!) 'Mounting Volley'
    • On 25% of a Shot's Pellets Hit: +15% base critical chance to remaining pellets (stacks 3x, +45% maximum)
      • base critical chance applies before modded bonuses
      • for every X pellets in a shot that hit, the remaining pellets from that shot are buffed

[quxier]

14 hours ago, bnuy said:

Felarx Incarnon Mode Changes:

• now has two Incarnon pistols with unique stats, both fire independently of one another
  • can spend Incarnon charge firing the Incarnon weapon of your choice that aligns with your build
• Incarnon mode transform animation time reduced to 0.4s
  • animation speed is affected by reload speed
     
• Left Hand: 'Corruption' (left mouse button to shoot)
  • Accuracy: 7.5
  • Fall-off: 12.0m (0%) - 24.0m (99%)
  • Fire-rate: 1.0
  • Punch Through: none
  • Damage: 2,000
    • 400 Impact
    • 400 Puncture
    • 1,200 Radiation
    • damage divided amongst multishot pellets 
  • Multishot: 10.0
  • Critical Chance: 8.0%
  • Critical Multiplier: 1.8x
  • Status Chance: 32.0%
    • per pellet
       
• Right Hand: 'Purity' (middle mouse button to shoot)
  • Accuracy: 11.0
  • Fall-off: none
  • Fire-rate: 2.20
  • Punch Through: 2.0m
  • Damage: 1,400
    • 200 Puncture
    • 200 Slash
    • 1,000 Radiation
    • damage divided amongst multishot pellets 
  • Multishot: 4.0
  • Critical Chance: 30.0%
  • Critical Multiplier: 3.0x
  • Status Chance: 6.0%
    • per pellet

And this is how you make interesting weapons. Not just slap +N damage/status/crit.

I'm not sure about Pekrs (I would have to test them in game) but 2 guns that works differently is something interesting. If we could mod them differently then it would be even better.

[Mag_Gaming]

I invested 9 forma into that stupid gun because I´m somebody who loves the strun reload so while I did mostly enjoy felarx, the bad things just kept coming and coming.

 

You need 4 bandaids to make the weapon usable especially in longer mission.

(Primed ammo stock + Primed tactical pump + vigilante supplies/any other mutation mod + galvanized acceleration).

I effectively fixed all of the weapon´s flaws but I had to use 3 more mod slots instead of just an exilus mod on a single target shotgun (thank GOD it has 4.0 innate punch through otherwise it would be sooooooooooooo bad) while weapons like the zarr exist which are beyond cringe.

 

3 extra mod slots instead of putting it more damage since the only damage I have is basically raw viral with no slash and no heat.

[Kainosh]

On 2022-07-22 at 2:23 AM, TnaneverRisen said:

It should reload 2 shells at a time, and get the bugged fake shell reload animation fixed.

I would make 1st shell on empty mag reload MUCH faster (as soon as "open" animation plays).

With that, you can continue firing at decent rate even with empty Magazine, fast-loading a shell after every shot (tenno are well trained).

Reference video

 

On 2022-07-22 at 2:23 AM, TnaneverRisen said:

-Incarnon Form - Give it about 50% more damage, and either explode on impact or have infinite punchthrough.

Dunno, more firerate and a bit less drain seems like a better option for me.   

Also, Wave (plasmor) projectiles would be better than Explosive.

 

[Silligoose]

1 hour ago, Mag_Gaming said:

I invested 9 forma into that stupid gun because I´m somebody who loves the strun reload so while I did mostly enjoy felarx, the bad things just kept coming and coming.

 

You need 4 bandaids to make the weapon usable especially in longer mission.

(Primed ammo stock + Primed tactical pump + vigilante supplies/any other mutation mod + galvanized acceleration).

I effectively fixed all of the weapon´s flaws but I had to use 3 more mod slots instead of just an exilus mod on a single target shotgun (thank GOD it has 4.0 innate punch through otherwise it would be sooooooooooooo bad) while weapons like the zarr exist which are beyond cringe.

 

3 extra mod slots instead of putting it more damage since the only damage I have is basically raw viral with no slash and no heat.

Depending on which perks one chooses, both Primed Ammo Stock and Primed Tactical Pump result in much greater DPS. 

[Silligoose]

On 2022-07-22 at 1:23 AM, TnaneverRisen said:

The Felarx just doesn't compare to the other Incarnon guns.  A player has to spend a lot of forma and put in a lot more playing effort into making it function decently, and it's still far behind the brain-dead ease of use of the others.  Somehow the Incarnon Form is worse than the normal form.  I don't get what DE was going for here.

Something like these changes could put it on the same level as the others:

-Base projectile speed should be around 30% faster (both normal and Incarnon form).
-Base magazine size (normal form) should be higher - maybe 8 or 10.
-It should reload 2 shells at a time, and get the bugged fake shell reload animation fixed.
-Incarnon Form - Give it about 50% more damage, and either explode on impact or have infinite punchthrough.

The Felarx has issues, specifically the reload bug and Incarnon form being weaker, as well as a build being OP broken strong, a trait shared with other Incarnon weapons that should be addressed, but it does not fall far behind other Incarnon weapons and sits on top of the mountain when it comes to shotguns.

The weapop has massive damage potential thanks to the perk system and this is offset with weaknesses such as a lower magazine. Players have options to use mods to address those weaknesses, That what the mods are there for.

[sunderthefirmament]

On 2022-07-22 at 12:51 AM, TnaneverRisen said:

...yeah, that's what I said.  I don't know what DE was thinking.

I think DE has commented on it and said they're looking at ways to improve it, but that was before Tennocon, and now they're on their break.  If it doesn't get any fixes in the next big update, it's probably safe to write it off as MR fodder.  DE rarely goes back to old weapons to make changes outside of modifying riven disposition or releasing an augment mod through Nightwave or a new open world syndicate.

[Mag_Gaming]

2 hours ago, Silligoose said:

Depending on which perks one chooses, both Primed Ammo Stock and Primed Tactical Pump result in much greater DPS. 

The perk choices are pretty obvious and I even tested a crit version as well which deals even less dmg.

Evolutions:

-wep recoil

reload increases fire rate by 10% per shell

+20% sc   -10% cc

laetum perk

 

The weapon feels great but only with all those bandaids and because of them it lacks dots and just has raw damage which is way inferior.

The sole thing carrying it is the laetum evolution but that is also not enough.

I used the felarx quite a lot in SP cascade and this is where my build comes from.

 

I don´t care about baby mode starchart where everything dies to 1 bullet from any decently modded weapon. That is never a good proving ground for a weapon.

It hurt my soul to hear that clueless woman who was the lead weapons designer or something say she´s most proud of the incarnon weapons, specifically the felarx which she created and finished, but obviously never even took out for a spin herself. Cringe.

[Silligoose]

24 minutes ago, Mag_Gaming said:

The perk choices are pretty obvious and I even tested a crit version as well which deals even less dmg.

Evolutions:

-wep recoil

reload increases fire rate by 10% per shell

+20% sc   -10% cc

laetum perk

 

The weapon feels great but only with all those bandaids and because of them it lacks dots and just has raw damage which is way inferior.

The sole thing carrying it is the laetum evolution but that is also not enough.

I used the felarx quite a lot in SP cascade and this is where my build comes from.

 

I don´t care about baby mode starchart where everything dies to 1 bullet from any decently modded weapon. That is never a good proving ground for a weapon.

It hurt my soul to hear that clueless woman who was the lead weapons designer or something say she´s most proud of the incarnon weapons, specifically the felarx which she created and finished, but obviously never even took out for a spin herself. Cringe.

I assumed you were using that build, which is why the mods you use increase the DPS  substantially.

If anything, Devastating Attrition, as well as the other Incarnon weapon counterparts, are, WAY overtuned. It isn't about Devastating Attrition saving the Felarx, it is about Devastating Attrition pushing it far beyond what any weapon should be able to do, when looking at other weapons within its class, as well as enemy durability.

I'm going to disagree with you that raw damage can simply be classified inferior. Slash is great, but when you want to take care of something, you go full strip and full frontal... damage.

I too enjoy Void Cascade SP runs. In pubs especially I like to take something along for testing. A corrosive Felarx was one of those little tests, because I wanted to see how far the upfront damage can go. Right about lvl 2700 -  3500 is when I started to see it take two to three magazines against Thrax Centurion, in part due to me not keeping my primary weapon arcane stacked up. On paper, it pushes out around 11 million burst DPS and a 4.5 million sustained DPS. As you know, in actual combat that gets pushed well over x10 times, without Warframe buffs and it is too much.

The crit builds together with perks for it are more in line with what the performance should be, when compared to other ranged weapons, even if it doesn't have the slash one may be looking for.

The interview was certainly as illuminating as it was disappointing. I was unhappy to hear the designer was proud of the weapon in its current state and I am inclined to agree that she didn't test it properly. When it comes to the Incarnon weapons, especially the ranged weapons, it seems balance was an afterthought, if even that.

[Mag_Gaming]

6 minutes ago, Silligoose said:

I assumed you were using that build, which is why the mods you use increase the DPS  substantially.

If anything, Devastating Attrition, as well as the other Incarnon weapon counterparts, are, WAY overtuned. It isn't about Devastating Attrition saving the Felarx, it is about Devastating Attrition pushing it far beyond what any weapon should be able to do, when looking at other weapons within its class, as well as enemy durability.

I'm going to disagree with you that raw damage can simply be classified inferior. Slash is great, but when you want to take care of something, you go full strip and full frontal... damage.

I too enjoy Void Cascade SP runs. In pubs especially I like to take something along for testing. A corrosive Felarx was one of those little tests, because I wanted to see how far the upfront damage can go. Right about lvl 2700 -  3500 is when I started to see it take two to three magazines against Thrax Centurion, in part due to me not keeping my primary weapon arcane stacked up. On paper, it pushes out around 11 million burst DPS and a 4.5 million sustained DPS. As you know, in actual combat that gets pushed well over x10 times, without Warframe buffs and it is too much.

The crit builds together with perks for it are more in line with what the performance should be, when compared to other ranged weapons, even if it doesn't have the slash one may be looking for.

The interview was certainly as illuminating as it was disappointing. I was unhappy to hear the designer was proud of the weapon in its current state and I am inclined to agree that she didn't test it properly. When it comes to the Incarnon weapons, especially the ranged weapons, it seems balance was an afterthought, if even that.

" WAY overtuned "

Save that for the AoE titans that are finally getting nerfed and not for a single target weapon that still nobody uses cus it has so many issues.

[Silligoose]

13 minutes ago, Mag_Gaming said:

" WAY overtuned "

Save that for the AoE titans that are finally getting nerfed and not for a single target weapon that still nobody uses cus it has so many issues.

It is. If DE ever wanted to present something like a heavy unit in normal missions that would take, say 3 seconds to kill with either the Felarx, or the Phenmor, most other weapons, excluding maybe a sniper rifle with good combo stacks, would take far, far longer.

AoE... Our weapon damage potential overall is too high. Either enemies need to be more durable at lategame, or Radial AoE needs to be nerfed along with Galv mods an Weapon Arcane mods,s so single target can also get nerfed.

[Mag_Gaming]

5 minutes ago, Silligoose said:

It is. If DE ever wanted to present something like a heavy unit in normal missions that would take, say 3 seconds to kill with either the Felarx, or the Phenmor, most other weapons, excluding maybe a sniper rifle with good combo stacks, would take far, far longer.

AoE... Our weapon damage potential overall is too high. Either enemies need to be more durable at lategame, or Radial AoE needs to be nerfed along with Galv mods an Weapon Arcane mods,s so single target can also get nerfed.

Don´t get me wrong I´m fully aware that the laetum perk is very, very powerful.

But there are far more prevalent and cringe things to be nerfed at the moment and the AoE meta making pubs beyond toxic is one of them.

[Silligoose]

28 minutes ago, Mag_Gaming said:

Don´t get me wrong I´m fully aware that the laetum perk is very, very powerful.

But there are far more prevalent and cringe things to be nerfed at the moment and the AoE meta making pubs beyond toxic is one of them.

I get where you are coming from, but I'd prefer one fell swoop to address it all... damage wise... kind of... ok not really, but at least in terms of weapon damage vs enemy durability. They can drop down AoE radial damage, drop down Weapon Arcane and Galv mod stack bonusses. To each their own.

[xDarkArchangelx]

I had a relatively simple idea to fix at least part of the issue, specifically the fact that the Incarnon form isn't worth using. Turn the pistols into 3 shot burst pistols with a rapid burst and very low recoil, and have the fire rate apply to each separately. It'll burn through the charge pretty quick, but that's okay because then at least you've got something that you can pull out to burst down a bigger target, and being a shotgun the Incarnon form charges up fast anyway.

[TnaneverRisen]

On 2022-07-23 at 5:17 PM, xDarkArchangelx said:

I had a relatively simple idea to fix at least part of the issue, specifically the fact that the Incarnon form isn't worth using. Turn the pistols into 3 shot burst pistols with a rapid burst and very low recoil, and have the fire rate apply to each separately. It'll burn through the charge pretty quick, but that's okay because then at least you've got something that you can pull out to burst down a bigger target, and being a shotgun the Incarnon form charges up fast anyway.

I think the pistol transformation is really lame in general.  Why would it convert to two smaller, weaker weapons?  Thematically it doesn't make sense.  It should just turn into a shinier/larger version of itself, like the rifle and secondary pistol do.  It should release BFG or railgun-like blasts.