Making Trinity a more Helpful Support

[(PSN)Frost_Nephilim]

So Trins a support based warframe whos focused on keeping allies in the fight. An issue she's currently suffering a lot from is that players are growing better at doing everything she provides for themself. Her abilities are still really helpful, but i think they may need to apply a few other affects to bring back the excitement of seeing such a frame in your squad again.

Passive: Changed to now allow Trinity to instantly revive a fallen ally within 30m instantly, every 30 seconds.

A lot of players just waste revives nowadays, instead of waiting for a player to revive them. So this just helps her a bit in keeping players from using that revive.

Well of Life: Has an added effect to now have a 25% chance to revive fallen allies, or let them do it themself by killing the affected enemy.

Sometimes its hard to revive players while so many enemies are around. With this you can now keep up the pressure against enemies and have a fairly solid chance of picking the ally up. Just another way to keep players in the fight without them quitting or using up self revives

Energy Vampire: Since vampires abilities also get stronger as they feed, same should apply here. While an enemy is under the effects of energy vampire, nearby allies draw energy, power strength, power duration, and power efficency from  each pulse. killing the enemy maxes the potential of the buffs out. If you cannot kill the enemy, it may take 4 cast of the ability to max out the effects. The duration of the buffs last 10 seconds, the buffs can be stacked within that time, however the duration will not be refreshed. The range to recieve buffs is a fixed 20m

It now offers a little something for everybody to enjoy, with a small amount of range to make it be used more strategically and be more at the choice of players who want to recieve the buff.

Link: Can now be casted on allies as well, linking 25% of the damage they take to Trinity's shields, as long as she has more than 10% of her total shields. The player will also die while Trinity is over 10% of her shields too, and also cause the ally to go invulnerable for 1.5 seconds when they arent transfering damage to Trinity. Duration of the ability is increased to 25 seconds

Reviving an ally is one thing, but its all meaningless if that player can simply not survive as well as you can. It can cause the player to wish to quit they feel like they simply cant stay alive. 

Blessing: If Trinity is able to wait for the duration of her previous cast of blessing to end, it will grant her next cast of the ability a random new effect to a randomly chosen ally player, almost like what one experiences during fissure missions after collecting enough reactant. The player can gain infinite ammo for the duration, or a large increase in range of abilities. A true blessing

As i said before, even with all of these effects, players still are often pretty good at keeping themselves alive on their own, so this little change gives her just a little extra boost to still help the players out

Thoughts? Is it too op?

[taiiat]

the Passive doesn't even need to be isntant, being able to Revive at like, triple the speed from triple the distance would be plenty.

Well of Life being able to Revive has to be less time and effort than just doing it yourself, for anyone to really bother. everyone can self Revive now, baring extreme circumstances, after all. 

[(PSN)Frost_Nephilim]

4 minutes ago, taiiat said:

Well of Life being able to Revive has to be less time and effort than just doing it yourself, for anyone to really bother. everyone can self Revive now, baring extreme circumstances, after all. 

It does, i was considering situations where you might not be able to finish reviving the ally due to enemy pressure. So this way you can both eliminate pressure and revive the ally, ima change it to a percent chance to revive

4 minutes ago, taiiat said:

the Passive doesn't even need to be isntant, being able to Revive at like, triple the speed from triple the distance would be plenty.

Speed at which players revive themselves though? Hardly time to get close

[(PSN)LeBlingKing]

If Trinity was released in 2022.

[PatrioticEagle]

it is actually a good thing players can sustain themselves instead of banking on someone to maybe help out, since a fair amount of players couldn't care less if you drop dead in a mission or not. That means you can concern yourself or your buddies. trinity is fine as is honestly. she can armor strip which is handy in steel path albeit limited to three, if the link was increase to like 5-7 now that would be great. She can provide plenty of energy as it is already just shorten the duration for faster pulses (i think), and can fully heal if necessary. But its also why people wanted to find a way to better heal themselves because relying on someone else to actually have the decency to help out in a MMORPG type game where you'd think peeps would be more willing to help out, is not as common as it ought to be. me personally i prefer the pet to heal me back as its more sustainable like a panzer vulp with hunter recovery that i can reliably count on vs a person using trinity who will only just notice i got downed and leaves because of a superiority complex (happened once, not a defining moment in general). The supposed changes the OP wants is ok i suppose but really not necessary.

[(PSN)Frost_Nephilim]

1 minute ago, PatrioticEagle said:

it is actually a good thing players can sustain themselves instead of banking on someone to maybe help out

I couldnt agree more, ive had my fair share of team based games where one must heavily rely on allies and i dont enjoy it much. Theres so many people that just go brain dead on you, i really can live without it

Was playing saints row with Ai squad and found my self with much less headaches

[Tyreaus]

1 hour ago, PatrioticEagle said:

it is actually a good thing players can sustain themselves instead of banking on someone to maybe help out, since a fair amount of players couldn't care less if you drop dead in a mission or not.

That and solo mode. Players have a variety of reasons for that. Mine is that I have a potato for a PC that doesn't fancy multiplayer all that much.

But that's also what puts Trinity in an iffy spot, unfortunately. Her use-case very heavily leans on groups. She becomes a fragment of herself when playing solo. Other support Warframes either perform about the same (Wisp) or can actively enjoy solo (Harrow).

With that said, I don't think this rework avoids that as much as it could. The EV buff looks nice and the numbers increases, especially to Link, are welcome. But the same question arises: if everyone's handling themselves just fine, why would I bring Trinity? Wisp answers this with buffs that aren't easily gained elsewhere plus her CC blind, and Harrow has a bit of that with his 4, plus a bit of CC with his 1, and health and energy generation values that can reach the level of "stupid" to both flex on Emergence Dissipate and to fuel his CC ability forever for more shields. This Trinity can answer that with Energy Vampire, but it feels like a timid response: she has the one ability while the other two flex with fuller kits, whether or not their team needs the support side.

I think if we were to rework Trinity, it might help to look at it from that angle, ask what she can do solo, and build up those capabilities for when a squad doesn't need her support side. It's why I've advocated emphasizing the CC aspects of her kit, which is surprisingly high: both WoL and EV have direct CC and Link can CC if enemies proc such a status on her. On a per-ability basis, that either matches or beats Wisp, depending how you measure Wisp's 2.

Anyway, there is one nitpick I did notice:

6 hours ago, (PSN)Frost_Nephilim said:

Well of Life: Has an added effect to now have a 25% chance to revive fallen allies, or let them do it themself by killing the affected enemy.

Sometimes its hard to revive players while so many enemies are around. With this you can now keep up the pressure against enemies and have a fairly solid chance of picking the ally up. Just another way to keep players in the fight without them quitting or using up self revives

Well of Life makes enemies invulnerable, and for this to work for downed allies, ought to anyway. Don't want people popping the life preserver, after all. Problem is communication: how is the game going to tell a downed player to shoot the once-invulnerable enemy to get revived? That is hecka abstract logic that would be hard just to remember, let alone find out yourself. An RNG on a revive feels too haphazard to be reliable, either.

It might be more effective to take the other player out of the equation. For example, if an ally is downed in WoL's radius, you can either shoot the enemy or release it or...something of that sort, and that'll revive the player, either instantly or over a duration depending on implementation. Let it serve the same sort of "revive" function, but without leaning on the other player knowing what to do.

(And as a frequent support player, I can only imagine the frantic typing and mouse-clutching frustration of having Well of Life right beside someone who just self-revives anyway because they don't know what to do. Please don't take more years off my life.)

[(PSN)Frost_Nephilim]

3 minutes ago, Tyreaus said:

And as a frequent support player, I can only imagine the frantic typing and mouse-clutching frustration of having Well of Life right beside someone who just self-revives anyway because they don't know what to do. Please don't take more years off my life.)

Lmao well said, i thought of this as a problem but discarded because often times i imagine a player will have either played as or encountered a a trinity before to know of it, but you make a good point

[taiiat]

5 hours ago, (PSN)Frost_Nephilim said:

It does, i was considering situations where you might not be able to finish reviving the ally due to enemy pressure. So this way you can both eliminate pressure and revive the ally, ima change it to a percent chance to revive

but again, will it be able to compete with self Reviving. if it's not better than the thing we already have by default, People probably won't use it.

7 minutes ago, Tyreaus said:

But that's also what puts Trinity in an iffy spot, unfortunately. Her use-case very heavily leans on groups. She becomes a fragment of herself when playing solo. Other support Warframes either perform about the same (Wisp) or can actively enjoy solo (Harrow).

Trinity does fine alone? no other Warframe can reach that level of hypertank. whether we need that level of hypertank is another matter, but if you want to soak Bullets, that's the prime candidate.

[Tyreaus]

2 minutes ago, taiiat said:

Trinity does fine alone? no other Warframe can reach that level of hypertank. whether we need that level of hypertank is another matter, but if you want to soak Bullets, that's the prime candidate.

That's the thing: she becomes a tank, but she's designed as a support. Sleep deprivation is making it hard to articulate but, consider Wisp and Harrow. They throw out buffs and if there's allies around to get them, good times. If not, nothing lost. They don't really change between solo and squad. Trinity's kit wants a group much more than that. Her passive is the most obvious part. Energy Vampire is fine to generate energy and shields, but it's paltry compared to Harrow. What it does, however, is wash Trinity's hands. She casts it, someone else can come along and kill the target during that short recovery window, and she can keep casting EV to rack up energy and shields for the team. Doing that solo really emphasizes EV's cast times and makes it feel clunky. It's like she can operate solo, but she doesn't operate as designed when solo. That's what I was trying to get across, and what I see in this proposal too.

[taiiat]

55 minutes ago, Tyreaus said:

 but she doesn't operate as designed when solo. 

i'd say that's quite subjective. those Abilities work great Solo if you ask me. the Cast times aren't "oddly convenient", but that's a small price to pay for the results that you get out of those Abilities.

[CosoMalvadoNG]

The way healing is today it would be more substantive to simply make supports much more offensive, defensive or skills that give boosts to others and oneself and do not come to me with the augment's we know that this can give variety but does not solve the problem. After all I don't need anyone to heal me u know we all have so many ways to healing.