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The Prime Access Discussion and Feedback Megathread

GAstarblade

By GAstarblade,
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Nitresco

Nitresco

Posted
Posted

Came home from work. Played some Warframe. Some guy called me a greedy, selfish bastard and left the game after trying to compliment (asskiss) me on my Misa and Primescalibur just because I told him I won't give him free plat.

 

Related, so I thought I'd share.

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Mak_Gohae

Mak_Gohae

Posted
Posted

A scarf today...a whole part of the game content later when they realize no one care on what they are doing.

 

Slippery slope yaaayyy!!!

 

If there one things that is messing up the game is that they ALWAYS have everyone get access to everything.

Turning Nightmare mode into general player friendly, the Void can be accessed by anyone, etc, etc.

Pretty sure that they are not going to do a 180 simply because people did not complain about a scarf.

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--MANA--

--MANA--

Posted
Posted

While I fully approve trading for platinum and stuff, I am against exclusive things. Sorry, but exclusivity is not cool. All players, no, all humans must be equal by any material means, all their status and things they should be able to obtain with their mind, knowledge and hard work. Money can be a shortcut to something, but money and timing should not make something exclusive. My two cents.

 

even tho i agree with you when you say that everyone should be equal. the cruel truth is that it's never gonna be equal. its the same as things will always be unfair in life. exclusivity exist for a reason but the reason is not because of money like you said.

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JollierThanThou

JollierThanThou

Posted
Posted

SECONDLY. The people who are hating the exclusive packs. The word "EXCLUSIVE" stands in there for a purpose!

EXCLUSIVE is "limited to a particular person, thing, or group and not shared with others" "catering or available to only a few, select people" "Catering to a wealthyclientele"  "very expensive, and therefore available only to people who have a lot of money"

 

These definitions came from the dictionary.

 

Plus the DE are not forcing you to buy those exclusive items. they are only available for the people who are willing to buy it and by buying it you are actually supporting the game. Lets just say that those Misa Syandana and Prime Extractors serves as a "Thank you" or "Complimentary" gift from them.

 

I don't like exclusive items.

 

My beef isn't with the definition of the English word "exclusive." My problem is, when DE introduced exclusive items, they created an ugly, community-fracturing, fun-killing cancer. I fully understand their reasons for using exclusivity, and I utterly reject them.

 

You continue to see whining about exclusives like Primed Chamber, Braton Vandal, and Natural Talent because they continue to be problems. The negative feedback will stop when DE learns from its mistakes.

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Vandoore

Vandoore

Posted
Posted

I think they should get stuck in doors or stepped on my heavies.

 

I would rofl if some warframe with a scarf got yanked backwards by it.

 

:D

Now that would be hilarious, maybe something like this. Scarf stats: 100% knockdown immunity, 50% snag chance when fighting, and 75% clothesline while running.

 

 

But in seriousness The only way to sell expensive stuff in f2p games is to offer something exclusive. Hell all major game publishers do that and DE will be looking at the feedback of the prime access to adjust for the next release.

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druindo

druindo

Posted
Posted

WARNING: Wall of Text

 

First off, I may wind up re-iterating some points that have already been made. Since I spent over an hour reading through the mega-thread, I know that this will happen and I know that there may have been posts that were missed being read by some players due to the merger.

 

Second, I apologize for how long I waited to respond to some of the posts.

 

Third, I chose these posts to respond to because there is a limit on how many posts I can quote. These posts seem to give the best "slice" of the responses posted in this megathread, in my opinion. I do not necessarily like all of these posts, however, but I feel that I can best address certain questions I have and comments I would like to make to various posters in the most effective manner by using these posts.

If Prime Access packages are going to become something people buy regularly then there needs to be a way for us (as in people who have spent a certain amount already, not just Founders) to buy it on our own terms.

 

Bleghy, I wish there was a button for +100, because your first sentence made me extremely happy. There were a number of other posters who voiced similar feelings. Instead of just wanting this cheaper and more limited purchase for Founders, you are willing to include everyone who has spent a large amount of money. That is awesome!

"Why does it always have to be about you! Because why would it be about someone else right. It's Me that counts the most! The first player to get in line. Everyone after me I couldn't care less! So please, do only stuff that I care about for this game or I will make sure I create every day a new whiny thread to explain how you are such jerks to me!"

 

All the founders crying for more it's pathetic. We already had a great deal in the Founder packages. Why beg for more everytime they create a new bundle of goods?

 

I like that they added this. Might give new players an incentive to invest in this great game and play more. I think It gives them enough stuff that they can feel they won't be eternally behind everyone else. That is how you take care of your playerbase, you invest in the new blood so the game can keep running.

 

They aren't slapping us in the face with this. We don't even have the content ourselves yet. Of course we can farm it, but it takes time, everything they add isn't pay-to-win it's for convenience. For people that want to invest in the game but do not have the time to farm the items. If you plan on farming it, why would you care in the first place? It's childish.

 

Theo, while I respect your right to have an opinion, I do not respect this opinion. You are painting ALL Founders with the same brush, whether or not they deserve it and I personally cannot condone that.

 

In regards to your opinion, you say "That is how you take care of your playerbase, you invest in the new blood so the game can keep running." This sentence, coupled with the attitude of "Just because you spent hundreds of dollars does not entitle you to anything," mindset that you and many others exhibit concerns me. There is a flaw in this logic. What you are advocating, it seems, is the Developer-Consumer equivalent of strip-mining. The developer exploits as much of a resource as possible before moving on to the next target, leaving the first victim destitute. Yes, DE must invest in new blood, but DE must NOT disregard their veteran supporters. Attempting to cycle whom they care about would mean older players leaving in droves and said players potentially discouraging new blood from playing the game and from playing DE games at all.

 

Yes, you may feel that we are unjustly upset about the issue, but even if you are not upset about it, you should not just sweep this issue, and the opinions of those who are upset about it, under the rug.

i see A LOT of ppl crying about basically the same thing

and every single one of them is wrong on the same premise

yer premise is that DE is required to provide you with every little thing, this is just not true

DE is perfectly capable of designing content that not everyone will buy or can afford, hell GGG with PoE have support packs upto $10k

im not buying the prime access packs myself, but im also not complaining all over the boards (because i dont have a problem with not obtaining them, no epenis worries, no jimmies rustled, etc)

Good for you that aren't letting yourself get upset about Prime Access, even when you cannot afford it yourself.

Your casual disregard for the opinions of others lost you any respect I might even have had for that opinion or for you.

I find your reasoning flawed, especially since you are painting everyone who has said anything negative about the Prime Access with the same brush. Many of us are concerned players. We worry what Prime Access will mean for the future of Warframe. Will Prime Access start us on the path of pay-to-win? Many of us are also proposing ideas that we feel could make DE quite a bit of money from their loyal fans, were they to implement them, without leaving a bad taste in our mouths.

While I do feel a bit of angst when I can't get the exclusive items (aesthetically) unless I dish out another $140, there is some validity in providing very strong incentives for new players to pick those packs.

 

What I will argue for is that I believe DE is missing out on another potential source of income if they just repackage their bundles. I would have no problem if they would even bundle up all the Founder 'primes' and sold that given that there is a market there for people who are completionists. As a Founder, you chose to support DE and they reciprocated with a mountain of plat, unique badges, and a constant reminder you contributed into making Warframe what it is today. I think this should be enough of a reminder of why you chose to support DE, rather than that shiny Excal, Lato or Skana (this is negligible in comparison and hence I believe this can be rebundled in the future).

 

Besides that, I just feel like some cost calculations are off track:

 

I find it funny how the basis for some of the pricing comes from just taking away the cost of plat and I will just do a quick calculation to show how absurd it is following that logic. If anything you need to consider the "discount' you put on plat (which was 50%), so really the cost of everything (prime parts and exclusive stuff) in that case would be 40 x 2 = $80. So let's do some more backwards calculation then we have lets say at current market pricing for the boosters (being conservative we take the highest price being 40 plat for 3 days), it would cost you 1200 plat ~= $65. This would make all the primes and the exclusive titan and scarf be valued at just $15 (which I think is absurdly low, considering the time taken to get all the prime parts). --------

 

Well you might say the boosters will have move value as you increase the time period, given that 7 days cost 80 plat. So lets try extrapolate a reasonable savings. 30 days 300 plat. 90 days = 800 plat. still going to cost you around $45. Again the price of remaining items only total to $35 which again I believe is a tad low but close to what I would expect it to cost ($60ish).

 

If anything I would price the two exclusives at $20 and you want all the prime parts at $15 for the sicarus/glaive and $25 for the ember. (bundle the prime parts for $45). Hell even provide an option to buy a 90 day booster for $45 or 800 plat.

And how.

 

Kudos for using math to prove a point.

I really don't see why so many people seem to think they're entitled to extra stuff because they bought an unrelated pack.

We got what we paid for with the founders packs. We got our shinies and platinum, that's it, that's all that was agreed upon. There was no mention of discounts on future packs or anything like that.

You don't want to pay for the whole pack? Fine. Don't. You don't have any obligation to. Just like DE has no obligation to give you discounts on unrelated things. Missing out on a scarf and a more useful resource drone isn't going to kill you.

Being a Founder doesn't mean you're super special. There are tons of founders. It was available for months. At the moment founders are the only ones with access to the design council (although everything there inevitably gets leaked anyway) .

Quick question: How many posters have actually said "I feel entitled to this because of XYZ." I have not seen a single post saying "I am entitled to this." Once again, painting a group of people with the same brush is unfair to those involved, however you make a statement of what you see, not what you view as fact.

 

You are correct, we did get what we paid for and were not promised future discounts or other such perks.

 

I greatly appreciate hearing from someone who's opinion differs from my own, especially when they use logic and reason instead of resorting to looking down on others. Thank you for that.

It's just DE's way to rake in some cash from people who don't understand the point of this game. What is the fun in buying all the new prime weapons with cash? It's kind of like paying to be at endgame. Ruins the fun, at least to me. 

 

As far as ridiculous prices, I say not.

 

Buy Platinum vs Prime Access

4300 Platinum usually cost 199.99 US dollars if you were to normally buy plat.

4300 Platinum + 2 prime weapons + Prime frame + Random bullsh!t + $&*&*#(%& amount of boosters + new prime avatars + prime scarf = 139.99 US dollars

 

That's a 60 dollar discount for the same amount of plat + WAAAAAY more.

 

I think people just get jealous that other players are getting the content before them. I mean if people have money to blow, why shouldn't they give it DE to help keep this game afloat? If they want to pay their way through this game, instead of play their way through this game, who cares? This game is predominantly PvE, therefore these people, if anything, are on your team. No reason to get booty tickled.

For you and everyone else would would like to justify the Prime Access by citing "savings": It is not a discount if one must purchase more than what one intended.

 

I quite dislike the fact that you are willing to paint a large number of people as "jealous." That's quite rude and does not help your argument at all, in my opinion.

 

I do agree, if people have money to blow, helping this game continue is one way for them to use it. I also don't have any problem with people purchasing cosmetic or time-saving items or items that can be accessed by any player. 

 

The Titan Prime is very much a large mechanical benefit, especially since, if I recall correctly from the most recent Prime Time, DE is considering implementing a cap on the number of extractors a player can have in use, based on Mastery Rank. This would exacerbate the mechanical benefits of the Prime version, since the Blueprint is reusable.

Does no one understand that DE is not a poor game company? I'm all for supporting and all but warframe isn't small anymore. There are millions of players now and most people do buy these outrageously priced objects or packs! I bet DE on average has made more money regular 60 dollar game partly because people feel bad for them thinking they have no money when INFACT F2P games have been shown to make more money that regular games. Grant it I have payed a lot of money to this game. More than I would normally ever spend. In the end it doesn't matter how nice DE is or attentive. It's actually worse because they completely ignore their extremely high prices even though the model is still the same model they used when they only had a thousand players. It's a rip off If there ever was one. Does no one see this?

I quite agree with this. Digital Extremes has had some rather large successes. Here's a list of games DE has made that you might have heard of:

Unreal

Unreal Tournament

Unreal Championship

Unreal Tournament 2003

Unreal Tournament 2004

Bioshock

Bioshock 2

The Darkness 2

 

For those of you who may want to tear into this:

Yes, I understand that the game development process can be expensive, but it is not so expensive that Digital Extremes would need to gouge their customers for $140 every month or two. Not even Electronic Arts does this!

 

DE, if you would like to explain the expenses necessary to run Warframe, such as servers and different employees, I would happily read such information! It would grant me a much better perspective.

The Founders Packs and Prime Access packs are there for a simple reason;

 

People who can afford them but do not have a lot of time, can buy them to get cool things, support the game and get a nice gift out of it for giving money to a game that can be played for free.

 

There has to be an incentive for the upper-tier packs. Something that makes them more than just desirable, but exclusive.

 

Not everyone can afford them, that is unfortunate, but then again not everyone can afford an iPad. Just because you bought an iPod before does that entitle you to a discount on an iPad? Of course not. That is how trade and consumerism works.

 

This is a good option for those who could not be a founder and it supports the game. If you want the exclusives enough, then you'll pay for it. If you don't, then you will have to live without them.

I do not agree with your opinion entirely, but I do agree with the way you have presented your opinion in this forum. You are clear and concise and do not attempt to demean your fellow players. You back your opinions with fact.

 

I disagree with what you state the purpose of Prime Access and Founder's Program to be. These packs are to give players an incentive to give DE money so DE may pay to continue making the game. Yes, DE is giving shiny toys away to help reel in more people, but if they were to break it up for the "high rollers" then they could make even more money.

Founders does not = I get all exclusive!!!!!!!!!!

Founders got the best exclusives in the game by far, let other people get exclusives. If you want them badly buy them its that simple.

I'm pretty sure most of us understand that we do not = "I get all exclusive!!!!!!!!"

Your second point is debatable. What about Braton Vandal or Primed Chamber or Snipetron Vandal? Are you saying that Skana Prime is better than all of those?

 

As to your third point, I do not believe that anyone has advocated preventing others from getting exclusives. I for one think exclusives are a good idea. I don't think that a $140 paywall is the way to go for exclusivity. If DE broke down the packs for everyone, or even a select group of players, they could potentially gain more money because a much larger percentage of their customers would buy items from them. Sure, they wouldn't make as much per purchase, but the increase in the number of purchases would be liable to far outweigh the reduced profit per person.

Prime Access is great, end of discussion.

Why is it great? You have said you think it is great but your opinion has little weight unless you can back it. I would enjoy hearing what your reasoning is.

 

 

Okay, now that I have responded to individuals, here is some constructive criticism for Digital Extremes:

 

I would like to point out that EA has done a similar tactic with the Sims 3 expansions, but they release almost 100 times more content with any given expansion and for less than 1/3 the cost of the tier 3 Prime Access. The amount of content released here, sans Platinum, might be $10-20 on the Sims 3 store and would be marketed as extra content. To be honest, I think there are better ways for you to get paying customers and to make money from those customers, but I will not go into that, since that is off topic and is something you have asked players not to do.

 

 

Here is a suggestion for you, Digital Extremes:

Part 1a: Grant players, who have spent X amount of money on Warframe, the ability to buy individual parts of the Prime Access at a significantly reduced cost (but if each item is purchased individually, it will cost significantly more than buying a tier.) I have reason to believe that this would greatly increase the number of potential buyers you will have for these items.

Part 1b: Allow everyone to buy multiple instances of a given item if they either: a. Meet the X amount spent for part 1a or b. Buy the Prime Access Tier with the given item (i.e. Must buy tier 2 or 3 for Titan Prime).

Part 2: Allow the "exclusive" items from Prime Access to be traded in game. Your more financially sound players will be able to use this to introduce these items in game. Players who could not afford to buy the Prime Access could buy the items from players in game, using in game items and currencies which they can afford. This would also let players who bought a high Tier pack to get more of what they want if the Access pack does not completely fit their needs.

 

The downside to this idea would be that players could charge exorbitant prices for items, however, players would still have the option to simply not purchase the item in question. One of the best things would be that it would establish a player driven market. 

 

 

To those of you who made it this far, thank you for allowing me to give my opinion to you. I do apologize if I have offended you when I did not address you personally and I apologize if you found a post directed at you insulting. I am genuinely trying to express my opinion and explain my thought process on this issue. I have done my best to keep my post civil and informative for everyone, but I may have missed something.

 

Thank you to those players who created the original threads which were merged into this one. It's good to know we have an active community willing to voice their opinions on the issues that affect the community. I'm not sure if I would have come and voiced my thoughts at all if not for the existence of this thread.

 

 

Also, this thread seems to be insanely amorphous, so trying to pin down the information for long is a bit of a chore, so once again, sorry if I have re-iterated something you have already posted. 

 

And before anyone asks, I used the spoilers so this post did not take up 10 pages worth of space. Yes, it does create more work to read my thoughts, but I felt it necessary.

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Renan.Ruivo

Renan.Ruivo

Posted
Posted

Hey guys, just to throw something in the discussion and quote my boss[DE]Megan, in case you have missed it:

 

 

Prime Access

Prime Access is all about having access to new Prime Gear instantly. Questions such as:

 

Will the (Ember Prime) deal be available forever or will it be replaced with the next Prime?

  • When the next Prime is created, Ember will be rotated out.

Is the Prime Access deal a deal where you will get all upcoming primes?

  • You will need to re-purchase the new pack each time. Buying one Prime Access does not give you all the future Primes.

Will the exclusive items change?

  • The plan is to refresh the packs with new items each time.

Will the exclusive items be available in game after a new pack is available?

  • No. The exclusive items in Prime Access will stay exclusive to the pack. They will not be introduced in-game.

 

With feedback we can adjust packs moving forward when they get refreshed. Many discussion threads have emerged expressing concerns about what Prime Access means for those who have already significantly invested in the game, namely through the Founders program. The Founders Program is distinct in that it fundamentally allowed Warframe to grow in its infancy, and the content within these are items unique to Founders.

 

We’ve got a lot of feedback and these packs will cycle, so we can operate more consciously moving forward.

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Renan.Ruivo

Renan.Ruivo

Posted
Posted

Im sorry if i didn't get it but the only change we'll get is until the next pack is available?

 

I don't believe i got your question right. But i'll try anyway :P

 

1_)The current pack will be available until the next set of prime gear is released, after that it will be cycled out. 

2_)Buying this pack does not grant you access to the next future pack.

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Vilemyre

Vilemyre

Posted
Posted (edited)

 

Titan reactor prime and Misa Syandana Prime should be sold in market place, i have platinum i want to use. i'm not going to shell out another 140 dollars to get them. I think this is BS, what do you guys think?

 

No and not because I am a roodypoo who doesn't want stuff in the market, but because prime stuff isn't really supposed to go in the market. They should just get a new drop system for the void done and put them in the void.

Edited by Blk_Mage
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Drakontis

Drakontis

Posted
Posted (edited)

I don't believe i got your question right. But i'll try anyway :P

 

1_)The current pack will be available until the next set of prime gear is released, after that it will be cycled out. 

2_)Buying this pack does not grant you access to the next future pack.

I believe his question was rather arced towards "We'll only see a change in Prime Access after the current one is cycled out." meaning that they'll only shift exclusives, prices, etc, after THIS Prime Access is exhausted so to speak. Will they change things before this Prime Access is done or wait for the next one to change things around a little?

Edited by Drakontis
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Magnagar

Magnagar

Posted
Posted (edited)

Ah I'm sorry I didn't mean that lol .What I meant was is there still a possibility for the current Access packs to be tweaked or changed upon feedback or so or do we get no change until the next packs are released?

Edited by Magnagar88
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Vilemyre

Vilemyre

Posted
Posted (edited)

i think if you really want these things then bloody buy the prime access for god sake, stop trying to mooch

I would agree with you, if this wasn't to do with buying a scarf for $100+. Not everyone can crap out $100 or more for cosmetics, especially not with every new prime access.

 

It was stupid enough when valve did that with the dumb ring in TF2 and its just as stupid here, actually the entire idea of prime access was stupid to begin with.

Edited by Blk_Mage
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Renan.Ruivo

Renan.Ruivo

Posted
Posted

Ah I'm sorry I didn't mean that lol .What I meant was is there still a possibility for the current Access packs to be tweaked or changed upon feedback or do we get no change until the next packs are released?

 

Well that i wouldn't know, but wouldn't rule out either. Your best bet would be to ask this question directly on the Hot Topic thread so that [DE]Megan can answer.

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