AABC AABC -> ABCCCCC.. everywhere, please

[Scar.brother.help.me]

Since Disruptions appeared I was hoping that all rotations would be changed the same way. Why not do it now? Look how well it works with Disruptions:

you need lith and meso relics - you go to Mars
for neo and axi - Sedna/Lua
and some in between
and if you need an item from rotation C - you just stay longer and farm it, if you need A or B u leave early.

AABC AABC is an old and outdated system and has to go (maybe many years ago it was good, but for the 4+ years I play - I never understood why is it even that way), every rotation after wave 20, minute 20, etc should remain C for as long as tenno stay.

 

[taiiat]

it's kinda wack.
if you want something from say, A, the game tells you to fail your Objective in order to get it. intentionally failing is some.... peculiar design.

it works nicely as long as you only ever want C, but then that makes A and B just padding filler, doesn't it.

[Xaero]

4 hours ago, Scar.brother.help.me said:

every rotation after wave 20, minute 20, etc should remain C for as long as tenno stay.

So you want it to be AABCCC? Or ABCCC you mentioned in the title? If it's the latter, then wave/minute 15.

[Drasiel]

3 hours ago, taiiat said:

it's kinda wack.
if you want something from say, A, the game tells you to fail your Objective in order to get it. intentionally failing is some.... peculiar design.

it works nicely as long as you only ever want C, but then that makes A and B just padding filler, doesn't it.

I already ran into that exact issue with disruption. I needed one of the A rewards but I had to quit after every 4 rounds because you can't get A anymore that.

[DstroyR_Prime]

Hm... Maybe, it is time for adding the optional mission types in combat regimes working in rotation system... Something like same regimes and mechanics, but with special condition "only A (B or C) rewards for each 100% sucess round (4/4 conduits for disruption regime) and some ammount of credits for rounds with 25, 50 or 75% of succes". In it case, you can be sure that other tenno in your sqad fighting for same rewards as you.

[Scar.brother.help.me]

5 hours ago, Xaero said:

So you want it to be AABCCC? Or ABCCC you mentioned in the title? If it's the latter, then wave/minute 15.

I think Disruption system is not perfect in every way but much better than AABC AABC. So ABCCCCCCC if you need a clarification (But AABCCCCC is fine too)

[Xaero]

1 hour ago, Scar.brother.help.me said:

I think Disruption system is not perfect in every way but much better than AABC AABC. So ABCCCCCCC if you need a clarification (But AABCCCCC is fine too)

Ok, got it.

Though I'd rather have AABCAABC with shifted chances towards more rare items from the rotation pool. Like with relics but gradually over time.

[Pizzarugi]

The problem with ABCCCC+ for anything not Disruption is that if you want something from the A or B reward pool, you will have to quit the mission and jump back in so you can do it again. With Disruption, it's just a matter of deliberately allowing demos to break conduits.

[SDGDen]

1 hour ago, Pizzarugi said:

The problem with ABCCCC+ for anything not Disruption is that if you want something from the A or B reward pool, you will have to quit the mission and jump back in so you can do it again. With Disruption, it's just a matter of deliberately allowing demos to break conduits.

to be fair, for C rotation I tend to do the exact same thing, extracting after 20 minutes in survival or 20 waves in defense. 

 

no real point in going until 40 or 60 unless i found a really good squad and after 20 the chances of someone in your squad not holding up anymore grow by *a lot*

 

how about:
 

every reward rotation drops an A reward
every 2 rotations the chance of getting a B reward goes up by 50%
every 4 rotations the chance of getting a C reward goes up by 50%

so you get:

1: A
2: A
3: A + 50% B
4: A + 50% B
5: A+ 100% B +50% C
6: A+ 100% B + 50% C
7: A+ 150% B + 50% C
8: A+ 150% B + 50% C
9: A+ 200% B + 100% C
10: A + 200% B + 100% C

etc.
maybe not with those exact numbers (maybe like... 25% reward increase per rotation), but reward chance and amount of rewards per rotation increasing over time would make endless modes actually valuable as an endless mode, since going longer would get you more rewards. currently for most endless modes, it's better to extract at C rotation and launch again. 

with the above system, hitting 2 hours of survival (24 rotations in) would net you an A reward, 5 or 6 B rewards and 2 or 3 C rewards. for just the 2 hour mark rotation.

 

imo getting that many drops from hitting the 2 hour mark should be fine since going for 2 hours is not that easy. 

 

[Pizzarugi]

52 minutes ago, SDGDen said:

to be fair, for C rotation I tend to do the exact same thing, extracting after 20 minutes in survival or 20 waves in defense. 

 

no real point in going until 40 or 60 unless i found a really good squad and after 20 the chances of someone in your squad not holding up anymore grow by *a lot*

If you come built to solo the mission to max level, the reliability of your teammates becomes a moot point. They're really helpful in getting the ball rolling with the extra spawns, though! :P

I'm just someone who hates quitting and remaking endless missions, especially if my teammates want to bail sooner than I would've liked. The time wasted loading into your orbiter and then back into the mission adds up.

52 minutes ago, SDGDen said:

how about:
 

every reward rotation drops an A reward
every 2 rotations the chance of getting a B reward goes up by 50%
every 4 rotations the chance of getting a C reward goes up by 50%

so you get:

1: A
2: A
3: A + 50% B
4: A + 50% B
5: A+ 100% B +50% C
6: A+ 100% B + 50% C
7: A+ 150% B + 50% C
8: A+ 150% B + 50% C
9: A+ 200% B + 100% C
10: A + 200% B + 100% C

etc.
maybe not with those exact numbers (maybe like... 25% reward increase per rotation), but reward chance and amount of rewards per rotation increasing over time would make endless modes actually valuable as an endless mode, since going longer would get you more rewards. currently for most endless modes, it's better to extract at C rotation and launch again. 

with the above system, hitting 2 hours of survival (24 rotations in) would net you an A reward, 5 or 6 B rewards and 2 or 3 C rewards. for just the 2 hour mark rotation.

Maybe not an endlessly scaling bonus reward (could you imagine getting 5 Cs every 5 minutes past a certain point in survival?), but getting ABC all in one rotation from prolonged stays sounds like a good workaround.

[SDGDen]

1 hour ago, Pizzarugi said:

If you come built to solo the mission to max level, the reliability of your teammates becomes a moot point. They're really helpful in getting the ball rolling with the extra spawns, though! :P

I'm just someone who hates quitting and remaking endless missions, especially if my teammates want to bail sooner than I would've liked. The time wasted loading into your orbiter and then back into the mission adds up.

Maybe not an endlessly scaling bonus reward (could you imagine getting 5 Cs every 5 minutes past a certain point in survival?), but getting ABC all in one rotation from prolonged stays sounds like a good workaround.

oh yeah, even if there's a cap, if the cap isn't reached until well over an hour in it'd still be more worth continuing as long as you can over restarting because restarting with that base bonus would mean having to spend time building it up again. much more significant than the maybe 1 minute you spend restarting the mission every C rotation.

[taiiat]

7 hours ago, Scar.brother.help.me said:

I think Disruption system is not perfect in every way but much better than AABC AABC. So ABCCCCCCC if you need a clarification (But AABCCCCC is fine too)

other options can just be for Missions to have multiple Reward streams. so that you don't have to have Pools competing against each other.

[Frendh]

I would rather keep the rotations the way they are. Saves some time for the rebalancing of the droprates too.

[Pizzarugi]

On 2022-11-26 at 1:57 PM, taiiat said:

other options can just be for Missions to have multiple Reward streams. so that you don't have to have Pools competing against each other.

That works for me. If I select a non-Disruption endless mission which then lets me choose what pool I want to take rewards from, I think it would be a great idea.

[taiiat]

1 hour ago, Pizzarugi said:

That works for me. If I select a non-Disruption endless mission which then lets me choose what pool I want to take rewards from, I think it would be a great idea.

i was thinking more of Missions always having more than one Objective, hence massively reducing fighting over Reward Pools.

[Pizzarugi]

57 minutes ago, taiiat said:

i was thinking more of Missions always having more than one Objective, hence massively reducing fighting over Reward Pools.

How would this work for something like survival or defense?

[taiiat]

1 hour ago, Pizzarugi said:

How would this work for something like survival or defense?

idunno, get creative. multiple Objectives, only one of which is mandatory, is the simplest form. like Archwing Defense was. if you wanted to go for a risk option.
or main and side Objectives, much like Railjack.
the hinge on it is just creativity, there's plenty of options.

[Drasiel]

On 2022-11-26 at 7:18 AM, Pizzarugi said:

The problem with ABCCCC+ for anything not Disruption is that if you want something from the A or B reward pool, you will have to quit the mission and jump back in so you can do it again. With Disruption, it's just a matter of deliberately allowing demos to break conduits.

that's actually not correct. Once you have reached the fourth conduit you can no longer get the A reward pool even if you fail all but one of the conduits. At 4+ rounds the rewards for each conduit are B,B,C,C respectively.

[Pizzarugi]

1 hour ago, Drasiel said:

that's actually not correct. Once you have reached the fourth conduit you can no longer get the A reward pool even if you fail all but one of the conduits. At 4+ rounds the rewards for each conduit are B,B,C,C respectively.

Ah, then I rest my case that anything which ramps up and sticks to C is bad. Disruption just so happens to do it first. :P

[Scar.brother.help.me]

Actually I would just prefer if ALL ENDLESS missions had just one rotation, and whatever rewards are in A, B, C to be split between planets (at least meaningful rewards like void relics, I'll use it as an example here). It might sound frightening to people who defend status quo but Disruptions with it's "ABCCCCC.." rotations already do it, at least that's how players play it:

Mars - Olympus: A,B - for Lith relics (players that farm it - play 2-3 rounds and quit)
Mars - Olympus: C - for Meso (long runs for the same rotation)
Uranus - Ur: B,C - for Neo (long runs for the same rotation)
Lua - Apollo: B,C - for Axi (long runs for the same rotation)
or if you hate nullifiers like I do - Sedna - Kappa rotation C when there are enough players (please, go there instead of Lua )

So in practice right now in game:
Mars is a short Lith rotation and an endless Meso rotation,
Uranus - endless Neo rotation,
Lua - endless Axi rotation.

I don't know how it is for you guys, but if I could decide I would make every endless mission on
Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars and tier 1 Void  drop only Lith relics
Phobos, Deimos, Ceres, Jupiter, Europa and tier 2 Void - Meso relics
Saturn, Uranus, Neptune and tier 3 Void - Neo relics
Pluto, Eris, Sedna, tier 4 Void and Lua - Axi relics
(and some little bonus the longer you stay maybe loot more reactant or more refined relics after each 4th rotation, just something not OP, but pleasant)

Making all endless missions ABCCCCCC would make it very close to that with minimal work required from DE (I beleive so), much less than diving into debris of the rewards we have now.

[thetdw2000]

On 2022-11-25 at 10:53 PM, taiiat said:

it's kinda wack.
if you want something from say, A, the game tells you to fail your Objective in order to get it. intentionally failing is some.... peculiar design.

it works nicely as long as you only ever want C, but then that makes A and B just padding filler, doesn't it.

Move A rewards to exterminate and other non-endless missions

simple as

[taiiat]

7 hours ago, Scar.brother.help.me said:

Actually I would just prefer if ALL ENDLESS missions had just one rotation, and whatever rewards are in A, B, C to be split between planets

we create the same Void Tears problem all over again with that - being forced to play Lv1 Missions when you're long past that in the game.

1 hour ago, thetdw2000 said:

Move A rewards to exterminate and other non-endless missions

plenty of those Missions already have their own Rewards. multiple Objective streams seems more practical.

[Scar.brother.help.me]

9 hours ago, taiiat said:

we create the same Void Tears problem all over again with that - being forced to play Lv1 Missions when you're long past that in the game.

we have steel path now, there is no big difference between lv101 and lv141
I don't see any problem at all

[taiiat]

7 minutes ago, Scar.brother.help.me said:

we have steel path now, there is no big difference between lv101 and lv141
I don't see any problem at all

Steel Path is a different Matchmaking group - it's a bandaid kinda but every time we fracture the Playerbase more, the game becomes less of a Multiplayer game.

[Scar.brother.help.me]

9 hours ago, taiiat said:

we create the same Void Tears problem all over again with that - being forced to play Lv1 Missions when you're long past that in the game.

I just counted my Lith, Meso, Neo and Axi relics to compare what situation we have now (I never farmed any tier of relics intentionally, this is what I have after 4+ years):

Lith - 1340
Meso - 1276
Neo - 1910
Axi - 148

I'd say we have this problem, but it's the opposit (since my fav planets before Steel Path were Sedna, Void4, Pluto and Lua)

Are you implying that I will have shortages with Lith like I have with Axi now?