Universal Vacuum, and a New Passive for Mag

[Qriist]

25 minutes ago, AsffluffyZ said:

This is also unhealthy for the game because 3 party members can go full afk and still get all the loot from the 4th

Afk timers already prevent this.

[Tiltskillet]

3 minutes ago, Qriist said:

Afk timers already prevent this.

They certainly try.    I think a few moves DE has made imply they don't work well enough for their tastes.  Reading into their motives, of course, since they rarely say anything directly about afk exploits, bots, and so on.  One that's vaguely on-topic being the changes to Pull and the goofy 50% range nerf it got as an injected ability when things like Ensnare have no penalty.  An idea I have is this was intended to be  just as much  a Greedy Pull nerf.

[Qriist]

1 hour ago, Tiltskillet said:

They certainly try.    I think a few moves DE has made imply they don't work well enough for their tastes. 

You're right, the timers are imperfect at catching AFKers (and sometimes scoop up active players who are stationary while shooting to defend a location). There is work to be done (such as not matching with people/AFKers on the blocklist) but I think my basic idea moves the needle towards healthier gameplay in a way that universal vacuum does not.

[Probably_Asleep]

On 2023-11-22 at 1:41 AM, Qriist said:

I do not. I've slowly come to the opinion that expanded vacuums are unhealthy for the game.

What I would like to see is the removal of all expanded vacuum mods coupled with enabling party-wide loot pickups (ala railjack). This makes it so people still have pay attention to the game instead of mindlessly blasting AOE through the mission, BUT a given item only has to be picked up once by any player. I think this solves multiple balancing issues at once. 

My perspective is coming from a solo player. Having to physically approach each drop is brutal. For example, I've been working on finishing all the research at my Dojo, and one of the items is the Hema:

HEMA: Bio Lab Research (+10,000 Clan Affinity)
Credits 5,000	Mutagen Sample 5,000	Plastids 10,000	Nano Spores 45,000	Neurodes 50	Time: 3 Day(s)
					Prereq: Torid

I ran the numbers and I'm looking at anywhere between 6 and 34 hours of running Deimos missions (depending on if I buy boosters and Smeeta helps out).

But if I had to cease mobility and look around, eyeing and approaching each resource before moving on, then that would easily add another 50% to my mission times, bringing the range up to about a 10 to 50 hour range. And while Hema is an extreme example, Warframe requires a lot of resources.

 

The only way I could see them removing Vacuum in its entirety is if they make resources a mission completion reward instead; don't even have drops. Every time you break a crate, just show a little "Crate Broke!" floating text or something, and then when you're at the completion screen it would say something like:

• Crates Broke: 53
• Enemies Defeated: 126
• Lockers Opened: 22

And then those numbers would cycle down to zero and the resources you get rewarded would add up as they do, and you'd end up with about the same amount as you would have if you had collected them by hand.

 

But actually while this would work great for solo, it would be terrible for squad. And what about energy and health drops? So actually Vacuum is really the only solution here...

[Qriist]

5 hours ago, (NSW)Probably_Asleep said:

My perspective is coming from a solo player. Having to physically approach each drop is brutal.

I can appreciate that, but I'm (respectfully!) intentionally disregarding your perspective. The vast majority of Warframe is open to a 4-man squad so the game should primarily balance around, and encourage, having that full squad. Concessions should be made only in places where the mechanic physically doesn't work (such as friendship doors not needing two people when playing solo).

I recall that you also made another thread asking for a change to Mag's Pull ability specifically to better enable your solo play. I don't have any real opinion on that ability change request but I'm highlighting it to illustrate that we're arguing for the game to go in two very different directions. You want your single preferred frame to be able to handle all content on its own but I explicitly do not want your frame to be able to overcome all obstacles. My attitude does not come from malice towards you or hatred of Mag. Rather, I want all frames to have some kind of content they are weak against.

One of my favorite and most used frames, Nezha, even has such a weakness. Between constant party-wide burst heals, stripping armor, and being nigh unkillable, he excels at the support tank role I've given him... but fully sucks at point defense. He needs someone around to help defend a cryopod or an excavator. I keep the offensive and defensive frames upright while they fend off waves and directly protect the target. We fill in the role gaps that the other squadmates have to provide a more solid mission experience.

If you've ever played Magic: The Gathering, then an analogy you might be familiar with is the concept of the color pie. Each color of mana has things they do well and things they struggle against. You have to combine colors in your deck if you want to cover all your bases. Discreet warframes aren't quite a mix-n-match as a Magic deck can be but the concept holds true if you look at your squad as your "deck".

Bringing it back around to the topic at hand: I want the game's mechanics to implicitly encourage teamwork. So, to that end, the removal of expanded vacuums + party loot would, in my opinion, encourage better teamwork and communication. Yes, that is to the detriment of solo players, and yes, I am okay with that.

Edited November 24, 2023 by Qriist

[Probably_Asleep]

12 hours ago, Qriist said:

I can appreciate that, but I'm (respectfully!) intentionally disregarding your perspective. The vast majority of Warframe is open to a 4-man squad so the game should primarily balance around, and encourage, having that full squad. Concessions should be made only in places where the mechanic physically doesn't work (such as friendship doors not needing two people when playing solo).

Thanks for being so respectful, and that's a very interesting take! While I've encountered many who prefer squad over solo, you're the first to believe that solo should not exist at all.

I think this should be obvious, but it's not like they're mutually exclusive playstyles. In fact, a good multiplayer game has to be built on top of a positive individual experience. A bad game with good teamwork will fail, a good game with bad teamwork will endure, and a good game with good teamwork with thrive. The multiplayer features are a multiplicative bonus, but the core gameplay is the base number.

Also, multiplayer can be a toxic environment, so I'm glad DE hasn't forced minors into that environment like some other game developers.

 

12 hours ago, Qriist said:

You want your single preferred frame to be able to handle all content on its own but I explicitly do not want your frame to be able to overcome all obstacles.

I'd like to correct something. I've only played Mag/Prime, I'm MR 27, and I've beaten all available content. So I'm not arguing for DE to make something possible. It already is. I'm arguing for the path to be made smoother because I am aware of just how enjoyable it is.

 

13 hours ago, Qriist said:

One of my favorite and most used frames, Nezha, even has such a weakness. Between constant party-wide burst heals, stripping armor, and being nigh unkillable, he excels at the support tank role I've given him... but fully sucks at point defense. He needs someone around to help defend a cryopod or an excavator. I keep the offensive and defensive frames upright while they fend off waves and directly protect the target. We fill in the role gaps that the other squadmates have to provide a more solid mission experience.

It would make sense for there to be niche frames that specialize in a single area, but I think it would be a gap in the character roster to make only specialists. There should be all-rounders for those that want to play as all-rounders, and my feedback is presented as one.

And actually, what you're describing is a good analogue for life in general. I've met people who want to depend on others; they blossom when everyone works together. I have nothing but respect for them. I on the other hand am a jack-of-all-trades in life, so I naturally gravitate towards that style in my hobbies as well.

 

13 hours ago, Qriist said:

Bringing it back around to the topic at hand: I want the game's mechanics to implicitly encourage teamwork. So, to that end, the removal of expanded vacuums + party loot would, in my opinion, encourage better teamwork and communication. Yes, that is to the detriment of solo players, and yes, I am okay with that.

I can respect that we stand on opposite sides of this, but I'm glad that DE wants a good solo experience. Be it greed to want everyone play, insight about what makes a good multiplayer game, or even just artistic caprice, DE has made it clear that they want the single player to want to keep coming back. As long as they continue to make solo-only content and amenities then I'll assume they want to keep getting feedback about it.

 

And as a final note (bringing it back to Vacuum). I think most squad players actually do want Vacuum, and I believe that strengthens my point. They want loot for their individual goals, but they don't want their solo efforts to benefit lazy parasites. It might be squad play, but the motivations behind it are solo in nature. I don't think this applies to you though, because by the looks of it you didn't even consider how party loot would encourage selfishness. That's pretty cool.

[Sojufueled]

Anyone else find it odd that she doesn't really interact much with magnetic status? That is somewhere the passive can go. It can give a benefit when attacking enemies afflicted by magnetic status 

[Probably_Asleep]

1 hour ago, Sojufueled said:

Anyone else find it odd that she doesn't really interact much with magnetic status? That is somewhere the passive can go. It can give a benefit when attacking enemies afflicted by magnetic status 

I agree! Even something simple like Magnetic Damage done by Mag is doubled would conceptually make sense. But it would be cool if it was something like striking magnetized (or "disrupted") enemies restores energy for Mag. Or maybe corpses that die to magnetic damage can be shot through to spawn orbs and ammo.

And I think all elemental Warframes should be immune to both the damage and the status of their element. (At least the status) I mean, Mag can bend light itself with magnetism! It would be technically possible to strip a black hole and rewrite the entire universe! But a sensor bar on a door or a purple zombie slapping her will make her involuntarily toot out energy. And doesn't Frost still take damage from the cold on Pluto and Europa?

[Probably_Asleep]

On 2023-02-23 at 12:13 PM, (NSW)Probably_Asleep said:

^{EDIT: I'm going to add any ideas I get to the top post as well, so I'm restructuring this opener a bit...}

Give 'em an inch and they'll ask for a mile. At first, only Hildryn had Shield Gating, but we wanted it on everyone. At first, Enemy Radar required a Mod, but we wanted it universal. I get it, we're greedy. But with that said: We want Universal Vacuum!

Thing is, though, Mag already has it. It's a less-powerful, buggy version of Vacuum that doesn't work in several game modes and is completely obsoleted very early into the game. I feel like eventually you're going to give us Universal Vacuum, and when that day comes, what is Mag's passive going to be instead? I hope you consider these possibilities...

  Reveal hidden contents

OLD Opener: Please improve Mag's passive. It's just vacuum. It saves a slot on companions, which don't have a lot of mods competing for slots in the first place. Here are 10 alternatives that I think are still Mag-themed, would work well with her kit, and would still be relevant after the SECOND PLANET on the star chart:

1. Attacks or environmental hazards that reduce energy (Like Magnetic fields, water, Eximus, Ancients, etc.) will not drain Mag's energy (but will still damage her where applicable)
2. Mag's natural vacuum stacks additively with companion loot gathering mods like Vacuum or Fetch, giving her 19.5m or 21.5m gather range respectively
3. When using Vacuum/Fetch, Mag's 8m ability upgrades to pull all objects, including Ayatan Stars/Scuptures, Index Points, Citrine Remnants, Vitoplast, etc.
4. Mag has electromagnetic sense, allowing her to see line of sight enemies more clearly, and even outlines through 8m of wall
5. Mag has a 25% chance to instantly recover all shields when fully depleted
6. Mag gains energy when taking Cold, Electric, or Magnetic Damage
7. When Mag shoots Health Orbs, an energy restoring pulse provides energy to Mag and Allies within 8m for 25% Health Orb value
8. When Mag performs a Ground Finisher, Mag gains invulnerability to Status Effects and Damage for 4s
9. Mag's shields block Toxin Damage
10. Mag generates 1 energy/second for every 100 points of Overshields active
11. Every 100 Overshield points add +0.1x Sprint Speed
12. All abilities can be charged by holding before casting, increasing Ability Strength by +5% every second (this would get rid of her #2's hold ability)
13. Natural vacuum starts at 8m but is affected by Ability Range and shared with Squad members in Affinity Range
14. Sliding is frictionless and generates 1 energy/meter
15. No limit to her Overshields
16. Touching an enemy has a 50% chance of sticking current negative statuses to enemy, clearing them from Mag
17. Mag gets an extra mid-air jump every time she casts an ability while in air
18. Picking up shrapnel has a 0.1% chance of obtaining a rare resource
19. Base armor scales with Ability Strength
20. Every 1 point of Energy spent on Abilities adds +0.1x to next Primary Weapon attack (max 20x)
21. Walking through an enemy corpse that has been killed from Magnetic damage increases HP regeneration by +1/s (max 50 stacks)
22. Applying Magnetic Procs to enemies increases parkour velocity by +5% per status for 30 seconds (max 10 stacks, stacks reset counter)
23. Mag has zero friction and double slide speed
24. With no Melee equipped, Ranged Weapons get +100% Magnetic Damage
25. With no Ranged Weapons equipped, Mag's shields get an additional +40% Damage Reduction
26. Mag gets +2% Ability Strength on next Ability cast for every 1m she falls (reset on jump)
27. Crates drop double loot when Mag breaks them with Magnetic Damage
28. Shooting a magnetized corpse creates an Energy Orb
29. Mag gets +1.5 Punch Through in Ranged and x1.5 Follow Through on Melee
30. Mag has a compass on her Map that point toward rare items when within 50m

  Reveal hidden contents

Old Closer: I love Mag and think her kit is amazing, so I'll continue to use her even if this never happens. And I also get that some other frames (including their passives) are in desperate need of a rework. But because we just had a starter frame update I'm sure the code is still fresh in the dev's minds and I think now is the time to strike while the iron is hot.

Please consider and thank you for all you've done so far.

Passives have evolved over the years from random highly-situational perks to thematic mechanisms that synergize with a Warframe's unique playstyle. But they have become such a defining attribute of newer and reworked frames that the old passives are comparatively nonexistent. I know you can do so much more for the older frames! (But please start with Mag)

I'm storing the original Post as a quote on the thread so I can edit it. I don't know why I didn't think of this earlier...

[Probably_Asleep]

On 2023-02-23 at 12:13 PM, (NSW)Probably_Asleep said:

Universal Vacuum is something everyone wants (everyone being 99% of the playerbase; there's always that one person...). But there's one thing in the way of that: Mag's Passive. Solution? Give Mag a new Passive, and give everyone a Universal Vacuum. This thread is to propose what that passive might be. I'll mimic a pinned comment by continually updating the original post.

Today's Featured Passive Replacement for Mag:

Auroral Deflection

• Mag's Damage Reduction on her Shields scales with Ability Strength
• When Mag's Shields are struck, particle effects resembling the Aurora Borealis erupt from her where she took the hit (throttled on rapid-fire to preserve FPS)

It would give Mag a unique survivability strategy, and the particle effects while pretty would also give you a quick indicator to the direction an attack came from.

^(3/2/2024)

Now that this is playing out I'm realizing I should just put the bear minimum down on the top post and I can put extra details and justifications down on the quote/bump post.

[Probably_Asleep]

On 2023-02-23 at 12:13 PM, (NSW)Probably_Asleep said:

Universal Vacuum is something everyone wants (everyone being 99% of the playerbase; there's always that one person...). But there's one thing in the way of that: Mag's Passive. Solution? Give Mag a new Passive, and give everyone a Universal Vacuum. This thread is to propose what that passive might be. I'll mimic a pinned comment by continually updating the original post.

 

Today's Featured Passive Replacement for Mag:
Magnetic Ubiety
Mag Expends 4 Energy/Sec to Extend Aim Glide / Wall Latch Duration (Affected by Ability Efficiency)^💬
(3/4/2024)

^💬 - More details in comments

Magnetic Ubiety would start after your natural Aim Glide / Wall Latch Duration wears off. Mag uses her own ability to force her location. This would synergize well with Mag's kit by giving her some mobility that she doesn't have already, as well as a natural damage reduction in that enemies have less accuracy when aiming at in-air targets.

[Venefik]

 I like this idea, though I honestly find 4 Eps to be a little too much, even if efficiency affects it (which btw can go the other way around if you have negative efficiency, which would put her passive to drain Effigy levels of Eps).

 I'd also like to see her having no gravity (like Aero Vantage) during aim glide, but I could understand someone not being into it.

[Probably_Asleep]

  

6 hours ago, Venefik said:

Spoiler

Today's Featured Passive Replacement for Mag:
Magnetic Ubiety
Mag Expends 4 Energy/Sec to Extend Aim Glide / Wall Latch Duration (Affected by Ability Efficiency)^💬
(3/4/2024)

I like this idea, though I honestly find 4 Eps to be a little too much, even if efficiency affects it (which btw can go the other way around if you have negative efficiency, which would put her passive to drain Effigy levels of Eps).

 I'd also like to see her having no gravity (like Aero Vantage) during aim glide, but I could understand someone not being into it.

I agree that, as a starter frame, 4 EPS would be a big drain. On day one it would allow Mag to wall latch for an additional 35 seconds. (Or Aim Glide, but without zero gravity that wouldn't really matter) 35 seconds is no laughing matter, but the problem is that it would also drain your energy during normal gameplay. While bullet-jumping around you'd occasionally be gliding for over 3 seconds and end up losing some energy here and there. (And Mag needs all the energy she can get, especially early game)

But end-game, Mag Prime could potentially be built to Aim Glide for upwards of 781 seconds! (If you scored the correct Invigoration then it could even go as high as 1,311 seconds) And if you equipped Greedy Pull or Energizing Shot then you could continue to float forever as long as you had enemies to kill. Throw in some Airborne-DR Mods with Arcane Aegis (just spit-balling but maybe something like this) and you'd have yourself an immortal aerial bomber.

 

That said, if DE was offering to make it 2 EPS with built-in zero gravity then you wouldn't see me complaining!

[Probably_Asleep]

On 2023-02-23 at 12:13 PM, (NSW)Probably_Asleep said:

Universal Vacuum is something everyone wants (everyone being 99% of the playerbase; there's always that one person...). But there's one thing in the way of that: Mag's Passive. Solution? Give Mag a new Passive, and give everyone a Universal Vacuum. This thread is to propose what that passive might be. I'll mimic a pinned comment by continually updating the original post.

 

Today's Featured Passive Replacement for Mag:
Inductance
Mag can accelerate to full sprint, turn, and stop immediately. Mag can also stop, change direction, and accelerate while Aim-Gliding as though she were on the ground.
(3/4/2024 B)

This one is related to the last one in that it affects Aim Glide. With this passive, Mag would be able to use her innate interaction with electromagnetic fields to increase her agility. This would give Mag more survivability based on player skill, as it would allow players with good reaction time to dodge incoming projectiles and avoid melee attackers. The Aim-Glide control would also let Mag take full advantage of playstyles like those encouraged by Aerial Ace, because she would not see any loss of mobility even while in the air.

While not that synergistic with her kit, it does harmonize very well from a lore perspective. A "Space Ninja" that could use their abilities to enhance their agility would do so.

[Probably_Asleep]

On 2023-02-23 at 12:13 PM, (NSW)Probably_Asleep said:

Universal Vacuum is something everyone wants (everyone being 99% of the playerbase; there's always that one person...). But there's one thing in the way of that: Mag's Passive. Solution? Give Mag a new Passive, and give everyone a Universal Vacuum. This thread is to propose what that passive might be. I'll mimic a pinned comment by continually updating the original post.

 

Today's Featured Passive Replacement for Mag:
Monopolarity
After applying 5 Forma, additional Formas applied to Non-Aura Mod Slots can apply a Universal Polarity.^💬
(3/5/2024)

This passive is two-pronged. First, Mag is a starter frame, so she has some responsibility to help a learning players get used to all things Warframe. With this, she would encourage players to use Forma, and give them the freedom to try many different Mod configurations. Secondly though, this same flexibility extends into end game. As new Mods get introduced and new challenges get revealed, players will always have their starter frame available to try things out before deciding how they want to invest in their main frames.

Also, Mag and "Polarity" draw an obvious conception connection.

[Probably_Asleep]

On 2023-02-23 at 12:13 PM, (NSW)Probably_Asleep said:

Universal Vacuum is something everyone wants (everyone being 99% of the playerbase; there's always that one person...). But there's one thing in the way of that: Mag's Passive. Solution? Give Mag a new Passive, and give everyone a Universal Vacuum. This thread is to propose what that passive might be. I'll mimic a pinned comment by continually updating the original post.

 

Today's Featured Passive Replacement for Mag:
Opposites Attract
Mag receives +10% to all Stats for each Mod equipped on a nonmatching Polarity.^💬
(3/6/2024)

This would be another Mod-related passive that could help in both the early and late game. In early game, the player may not have the Forma, Mods, or Endo needed to create a great build for Mag. In that case, this passive would help by adding bonuses to just using Mods even if they're not perfect. Later on though, players might find unique ways of taking advantage of this. It's a passive that helps novices as they learn and veterans as they grow their creativity.

[Aevire]

Making her passive stack with universal vacuum seems the best solution. Failing that, replacing it with a combat relevant passive (maybe something to deal with Magnetic status?) could give her something new to replace what she'd lose.

[Probably_Asleep]

On 2024-03-07 at 3:08 PM, Aevire said:

Making her passive stack with universal vacuum seems the best solution. Failing that, replacing it with a combat relevant passive (maybe something to deal with Magnetic status?) could give her something new to replace what she'd lose.

You're probably right. I think everyone should get something like a 8m Universal Vacuum. Fetch/Vacuum Mods would add an additional 6m/4m respectively, and Mag would add an additional 8m on top of both of those.

But for the sake of having fun and being imaginative (and on the off-chance DE reads this thread and actually likes some of these idea), I'm going to shoot for the stars and recommend things that will make the game more fun. (Although a massive vacuum range would be a big QoL boost) 

[Probably_Asleep]

On 2023-02-23 at 12:13 PM, (NSW)Probably_Asleep said:

Today's Featured Passive Replacement for Mag:
Attractive Chassis
Mag's movement and melee attack speed is increased by 25% for each enemy/ally within vacuum range.^💬
(3/8/2024)

Mag uses her mastery over attraction to supplement her strength and agility by piggybacking off of the electromagnetic properties of nearby equipment, shields, and armor. Mag's overall strength scales primarily with enemy quantity. This Passive would align with that principle by boosting her melee and movement abilities in proportion to surrounding enemies. Also Mag's Range-Weapon game is already top-tier. She turns powerful single-target weapons into DoT AoE chokepoints culminating into SP-obliterating explosions. She groups enemies so densely that AoE weapon falloff is a nonfactor. She guarantees headshots uses every single centimeter of Punch Through. But what about her melee? (Actually with ground finishers that's not doing so bad either, now that I think of it...) Her melee is okay, but it doesn't have the same oomf as her range game. This passive would lift that up.

[lumine99]

How about

Every x ability cast triggers Cordon like effect

Or

Mag is immune to magnetic proc

Or

Mag upon getting mag proc pushes away enemies

Edited March 11 by lumine99

[Probably_Asleep]

2 hours ago, lumine99 said:

How about

Every x ability cast triggers Cordon like effect

Or

Mag is immune to magnetic proc

Or

Mag upon getting mag proc pushes away enemies

I hope you don't mind but I really like the "every x ability cast triggers..." idea. I'm crediting you on the featured ability. While I think Cordon might end up making gameplay more difficult (like if you're doing a stealth run and you're casting Rest & Rage repeatedly, it could end up alerting enemies and ruining your affinity farm). But I do like the idea that extra effect some after a certain amount of casts! I think it would be cool to have it depend on the ability that gets cast, so something along these lines:

I'm calling it "EM Radiation." The lore will be that Mag herself becomes charged as she channels abilities through her body, which involuntarily erupt from her during her next ability cast, making that ability a "radiating" ability with augmented effects.

Every 6th/5th/4th/3rd (depending on Mag's rank, 3rd at level 30), Mag's ability will gain additional effects. If the ability cast is...

• Pull - Vortex in front of Mag scales with Ability Duration (by default it lasts for 2 seconds). If Pull is held during this cast, then vortex moves with Mag.
• Magnetize (Tap) - Mag & Allies are immune to Ranged and AoE damage while standing inside bubble.
• Magnetize (Hold)
  • Primary/Secondary ammo restored at 5% per shot absorbed.
  • Absorbing >1000 Damage and releasing it inside a Magnetize bubble adds to that bubble's duration by 1 Second per 100 Damage absorbed.
• Polarize - Shield/Armor stripping increases by 50% for every meter traveled and an additional 25% for every enemy hit by wave.
• Crush - Enemies stay on the ground for 5 seconds (affected by Ability Duration) and remain vulnerable to Ground Finishers during that time.
• Subsumed - "Radiating" a subsumed ability has a random effect from costing no energy, doubling the strength, instantaneous cast time, and more. 

When Mag's next ability is going to be "radiating," she will emit and aura that looks like a magnetic field according to her energy color.

 

The following rant isn't just for this idea. I'd like to address my thoughts on the possible objection that this (or any former/future idea) is too overpowered.

Spoiler

Mag has long been one of if not the most powerful frame in the game when in the right hands. But at the same time, she's not at all popular because the "right hands" are masochistic min/maxers who think playing speed chess with guns pointed at your head sounds like entertainment. There are plenty of other frames out there where you can just slap a YouTube build on and blitz through content without thinking. Mag on the other hand has to be built right and played right. She can level-cap with half of her Mod slots empty, but she can also die on low-level content with a 5-Forma build.

What I'm trying to say is that there's a reason Mag isn't popular, and it's not because she's a bad frame. She's like a longbow when crossbows are available. If you tell a new soldier: "You could either train for a year to get good with the longbow, or train for a day to get good with the crossbow." then most are going to pick the second option. (I realized I'm oversimplifying the longbow/crossbow debate; I'm only using this illustratively) But Mag is the first option. Like the physical strength needed to draw 150+ pound bows, you need Focus, Forma, Rare/Corrupt Mods, Auras, Augments, Archon Shards, Helminth, and more. And like the accuracy training, you need to study her abilities, learn parkour for battle, inanimately understand Modding, gain a familiarity of the enemies you fight, and learn battle tactics. You need to invest in Mag and yourself, or you can spend some plat on another frame and skip that entire journey. Of course Mag isn't popular.

To clarify, I don't think it's wrong to choose the "crossbow" option. I don't think any Mag-mains look down on the rest of the playerbase or resent them for their quicker progress to similar efficacy. I think it's just a matter of what is fun to you. If you want the big numbers and the quick wins and don't care about how you get there, then get a crossbow. That's the normal and completely understandable decision. If on the other hand you want to start as a baby snake and fight your way to become a divine dragon, then use Mag. That's the abnormal and often difficult to understand decision.

TL;DR
We can't make Mag OP with an awesome passive, because Mag already is OP for the ones who understand her. She won't ever break the balance of the game, because she'll never be popular enough. She's not a born-deadly demon; she's a grow-forever goddess. Her learning curve is a far better deterrent than any nerf ever would be.

[lumine99]

While I enjoyed your take on my idea, I wished mag would have a simple passive. Nothing too strong or weak or complicated. She is one of the earliest frame a player can get.

 

Also the idea of x effect after a certain cast actually comes from protea's passive. Wanted something that fits her name, hence either pushing something or pulling something.

[Probably_Asleep]

5 hours ago, lumine99 said:

While I enjoyed your take on my idea, I wished mag would have a simple passive. Nothing too strong or weak or complicated. She is one of the earliest frame a player can get.

 

Also the idea of x effect after a certain cast actually comes from protea's passive. Wanted something that fits her name, hence either pushing something or pulling something.

I try to be polite by replying in a similar length. But I'm struggling; your posts are exact and to-the-point. I enjoyed your post as well, but I've covered all but the Cordon one, and Mag has great grouping abilities already.

 

I think Mag is known as a complicated frame, so a complicated passive would fit her theme. She doesn't have any "Push" ability though, I like that... another good idea.

[Probably_Asleep]

On 2023-02-23 at 12:13 PM, (NSW)Probably_Asleep said:

Universal Vacuum is something everyone wants (everyone being 99% of the playerbase; there's always that one person...). But there's one thing in the way of that: Mag's Passive. Solution? Give Mag a new Passive, and give everyone a Universal Vacuum. This thread is to propose what that passive might be. I'll mimic a pinned comment by continually updating the original post.

 

Today's Featured Passive Replacement for Mag:
Reversal
When using Pull during Protective Magnetize, Mag can reverse the polarities/behavior on her abilities.^💬
(3/12/2024 - Inspired by lumine99's post)

Mag's abilities are mainly attractive, so this could give her some repel capacity. Essentially it would work like this: While using Mag's #2 Ability (Held), you could do try to use her #1 Ability. This will invert and pop the singularity she's holding, and swap the polarity on her abilities:

• Pull - Becomes "Push" and will launch enemies depending on Strength and Range.
• Magnetize (Tap) - Becomes "Antimagnetic" which still creates a bubble, but this pushes enemies away form target and shoots projectiles back at their source.
• Magnetize (Hold) - Same as (Tap) but held in front of you. Projectiles are redirected back toward whoever fired them, and nearby enemies are pushed back.
• Polarize - Becomes "Degauss" and will instantly pop [Anti]Magnetic bubbles, deactivate enemy shields, and causes enemy weapons to misfire and explode.
• Crush - Becomes "Burst" and will make all enemies in range rupture. Enemy Armor and Slash Procs scale damage up. Puncture Procs change to Bleed Status.
• Subsumed - No effect except for an easter egg of sorts with Gauss's Helminth ability Thermal Sunder; the Tap/Hold gets inverted.

This passive would give Mag more versatility in gameplay as well as give her 3rd and 4th abilities some extra utility for stronger enemy levels. In particular, I'd be most excited about seeing "Push" in action. I can't think of anything more entertaining than a classic "Star Wars Jedi" attack that slams all the enemies you see against the wall. (Or off into oblivion)

[Probably_Asleep]

On 2023-02-23 at 12:13 PM, (NSW)Probably_Asleep said:

Universal Vacuum is something everyone wants (everyone being 99% of the playerbase; there's always that one person...). But there's one thing in the way of that: Mag's Passive. Solution? Give Mag a new Passive, and give everyone a Universal Vacuum. This thread is to propose what that passive might be. I'll mimic a pinned comment by continually updating the original post.

 

Today's Featured Passive Replacement for Mag:
Field Harmonics
Every Mag in the Squad doubles the Affinity Range and grants +15m Loot Radar. Affinity gain for self and Allies boosted by 25% with 100% Falloff.^💬
(3/14/2024)

This wouldn't be the most useful for myself personally because I play almost exclusively solo, but it would be a great assist for teammates, and the affinity boost would be a good bonus for new players (which is particularly useful in starter frames).