Universal Vacuum, and a New Passive for Mag

[Probably_Asleep]

Universal Vacuum is something everyone wants (everyone being 99% of the player-base; there's always that one person...). But there's one thing in the way of that: Mag's Passive. Solution? Give Mag a new Passive, and give everyone a Universal Vacuum. This thread is to propose what that passive might be. I'll mimic a pinned comment by continually updating the original post.

 

Today's Featured Passive Replacement for Mag:
Kyuveebee Sinomega
Every Mag in Affinity Range lowers Enemy Accuracy by 20%. Mag is immune to projectiles while in contact with any Mag's Magnetize bubble.^💬
(4/30/2024)

^💬 - More details in comments

_{Prior Passives Index:}

Spoiler

• 2023/02/23 Original Batch (with Edits) - 10 Ideas that started all of this
• 2023/09/07 Batch of 10 - An additional set of ideas presented when this thread was revisited
• 2023/09/13 Loot dropped Crates/Enemies destroyed by Mag are automatically retrieved by all squad members in Affinity Range regardless of distance
• 2024/03/02 Auroral Deflection - Shield Damage Reduction scales with Ability Strength 
• 2024/03/04 Magnetic Ubiety - Increase Aim-Glide / Wall-Latch Duration by expending Energy per second
• 2024/03/04 Inductance - Instant lateral acceleration on while grounded or airborne
• 2024/03/05 Monopolarity - Universal Polarity available after enough Forma investment
• 2024/03/06 Opposites Attract - Violating Mod Polarity grants broad spectrum Stat Boosts
• 2024/03/08 Attractive Chassis - Move and strike faster the more enemies/allies that are close
• 2024/03/10 EM Radiation - Every x ability cast gains additional effects
• 2024/03/12 Reversal - Magnetize (Hold) + Pull = Reverse polarities(behavior) on Abilities
• 2024/03/14 Field Harmonics - Each Mag in Squad gives x2 Affinity Range, +15m Loot Radar, and more Affinity when standing nearby
• 2024/03/20 Magrail - Crouch and draw useful magnetic shapes with Mag's bidents
• 2024/03/27 Hysteresis - Mag has status immunity for the first 2 seconds of each negative status
• 2024/04/01 Faraday Break - Opening lockers breaks crates, unlocks more lockers, and increases Shield Capacity
• 2024/04/04 Lorentz Reinforcement - Slide-kills with Magnetic Damage increase Mag's Ability Range by 1%
• 2024/04/09 Stable Field - Mag never has to worry about Abilities being disabled or Energy being drained
• 2024/04/10 Magnetoreception - Mag has a full map that gets better the more resources she obtains
• 2024/04/15 Magnetic Recording - Copy and distribute Affinity to your equipment with Mag's Ability Strength
• 2024/04/19 Flux Compression - Crouch to boost Ability Strength and affect CC-Immune enemies
• 2024/04/24 Geometrical Frustration - Magnetic can apply to Overguard and behaves like Viral when Mag is nearby
• 2024/04/25 Extended Visible Spectrum - Mag can see and everything when aiming and crouching
• 2024/04/30 Kyuveebee Sinomega - Mag lowers accuracy and can't be hit by projectiles while touching her bubble

 

Edited Tuesday at 10:13 PM by Probably_Asleep

[Drasiel]

having her vacuum stack with other sources of vacuum would be nice and probably the least amount of work.

[Probably_Asleep]

20 minutes ago, Drasiel said:

having her vacuum stack with other sources of vacuum would be nice and probably the least amount of work.

I think you're right, and I'd be fine with that even! It might help her energy economy being able to retrieve orbs from that distance.

[Zahnny]

Personally I'd love to see an Overhaul of many Warframes passive abilities.

Either turn them into something that has synergy with their kit, or just something more noteworthy.

 

Looking at Rhino. According to the wiki, it stacks with mods that do the same effect but after testing it a few weeks ago I can confirm that is false.

Made a rework concept for Rhino's passive here.

 

[RLanzinger]

Mag's Passive is not bad, unlike Frost's one, but Greedy Pull is a bit redundant with her passive.

Something that could combo with like Master thief instead of vacuum should be more usefull.

[(PSN)M00n_Slippers]

A lot of the older frames have bad passives. i also feel Mags is pretty lame, though I'll admit it is act least useful for new players, whereas some aren't useful ever. I like the idea of the vacuum range stacking. Even at higher levels, you can never have too much vacuum and it would be a very minor change. I think a lot of the other suggestions are a bit too much considering how good Mag is already.

Something related to buffing sentinels might be nice, since they need all the help they can get and are generally something early players rely on, but will also help people who use sentinels in general when they play mag. Somethign like, extra lives for sentinels, extra healing, evasion or something.

[Probably_Asleep]

3 hours ago, Zahnny said:

Personally I'd love to see an Overhaul of many Warframes passive abilities.

Either turn them into something that has synergy with their kit, or just something more noteworthy.

 

Looking at Rhino. According to the wiki, it stacks with mods that do the same effect but after testing it a few weeks ago I can confirm that is false.

Made a rework concept for Rhino's passive here.

 

That's an intriguing catch with Rhino! I wonder if that's a bug or if the Wiki is wrong. And I agree on the passives. Some frames have passives that are intimately connected to the rest of their abilities. But others just look like they pulled a random card out of a deck and took the bonus.

 

3 hours ago, RLanzinger said:

Mag's Passive is not bad, unlike Frost's one, but Greedy Pull is a bit redundant with her passive.

Something that could combo with like Master thief instead of vacuum should be more usefull.

I did actually review all the frame's passives before starting the thread because I wanted to know if I could use any words like "worst" or "least" with Mag's passive. And you're right; Mag's passive is by no means the worst or least scalable.

That's an interesting idea to include Master Thief. It's one of those mods that have such a high drain that it's not worth it, but I always find myself wanting it on a mission. (It's annoying having lockers there but no way to open them; the gamer in me feels like all loot should be available) And the companion equivalent is beast-only.

 

1 hour ago, (PSN)M00n_Slippers said:

A lot of the older frames have bad passives. i also feel Mags is pretty lame, though I'll admit it is act least useful for new players, whereas some aren't useful ever. I like the idea of the vacuum range stacking. Even at higher levels, you can never have too much vacuum and it would be a very minor change. I think a lot of the other suggestions are a bit too much considering how good Mag is already.

Something related to buffing sentinels might be nice, since they need all the help they can get and are generally something early players rely on, but will also help people who use sentinels in general when they play mag. Somethign like, extra lives for sentinels, extra healing, evasion or something.

The "whereas some aren't useful ever" got a laugh out of me. Mag is good already; I'll give you that. The idea of stacking Vacuum seems like a winner in that sense. A quick change that adds long-term value. (Although seeing as 5 out of 10 of my suggestions are related to energy, it would seem I really want something in her kit to help her thirst)

 

Now it's just a matter of time before DE reads their forum and comes across this thread. I'm sure it'll be ANY day now... maybe I can help with some keywords that might get caught in a search query though:
_{DE IS GREAT! -- DELICIOUS -- BUGS -- GAME BREAKING -- DESTINY 2 -- POTATO -- PINK SHORTS -- ZAMARIN -- VEILBREAKER -- SYANAX -- VORUNA -- CITRINE -- DUVIRI PARADOX -- PR -- CONQUERA -- OFFENSIVE -- KITTENS}

[Drasiel]

12 minutes ago, (NSW)Probably_Asleep said:

That's an intriguing catch with Rhino! I wonder if that's a bug or if the Wiki is wrong. And I agree on the passives. Some frames have passives that are intimately connected to the rest of their abilities. But others just look like they pulled a random card out of a deck and took the bonus.

 

I did actually review all the frame's passives before starting the thread because I wanted to know if I could use any words like "worst" or "least" with Mag's passive. And you're right; Mag's passive is by no means the worst or least scalable.

That's an interesting idea to include Master Thief. It's one of those mods that have such a high drain that it's not worth it, but I always find myself wanting it on a mission. (It's annoying having lockers there but no way to open them; the gamer in me feels like all loot should be available) And the companion equivalent is beast-only.

 

The "whereas some aren't useful ever" got a laugh out of me. Mag is good already; I'll give you that. The idea of stacking Vacuum seems like a winner in that sense. A quick change that adds long-term value. (Although seeing as 5 out of 10 of my suggestions are related to energy, it would seem I really want something in her kit to help her thirst)

 

Now it's just a matter of time before DE reads their forum and comes across this thread. I'm sure it'll be ANY day now... maybe I can help with some keywords that might get caught in a search query though:
_{DE IS GREAT! -- DELICIOUS -- BUGS -- GAME BREAKING -- DESTINY 2 -- POTATO -- PINK SHORTS -- ZAMARIN -- VEILBREAKER -- SYANAX -- VORUNA -- CITRINE -- DUVIRI PARADOX -- PR -- CONQUERA -- OFFENSIVE -- KITTENS}

as a rhino main good god is his passive just completely useless. The last time I knew that Rhino's passive was stacking with heavy impact would have been when Neptune released I believe. Even then Heavy impact was barely worth slotting as it's just not useful compared to nearly any other option. The passive version rhino has is too short to even be useful or noticeable unless you land right beside an enemy. I also have a very fuzzy memory it might have a target cap too.

Master thief could be a cool passive for mag (and useful when paired with greedy pull). Locks are just mechanisms or electronics, right? makes sense she could manipulate the fields. Fun fact about master thief it was released back when lockers were one of the main sources for resources. Its high cost is partially due to how much it helped with farming back then. That isn't the case anymore but it's kept its ludicrously high mod cost despite there being far better looting options even if you just kill enemies now. The companion equivalent is far worse than just being restricted to only beasts, it has a moderate-length animation that has to play on every single locked locker, it only opens one at a time, and it doesn't unlock until the animation is over. If the animation was shortened or sped up, if the locker unlocked at the beginning of the animation, if the precept was available on all quadrupeds companions, and if it opened every locker in a radius around the pet it would absolutely be considered a useful tool and worth equipping.

 

[Probably_Asleep]

8 hours ago, Drasiel said:

as a rhino main good god is his passive just completely useless. The last time I knew that Rhino's passive was stacking with heavy impact would have been when Neptune released I believe. Even then Heavy impact was barely worth slotting as it's just not useful compared to nearly any other option. The passive version rhino has is too short to even be useful or noticeable unless you land right beside an enemy. I also have a very fuzzy memory it might have a target cap too.

Master thief could be a cool passive for mag (and useful when paired with greedy pull). Locks are just mechanisms or electronics, right? makes sense she could manipulate the fields. Fun fact about master thief it was released back when lockers were one of the main sources for resources. Its high cost is partially due to how much it helped with farming back then. That isn't the case anymore but it's kept its ludicrously high mod cost despite there being far better looting options even if you just kill enemies now. The companion equivalent is far worse than just being restricted to only beasts, it has a moderate-length animation that has to play on every single locked locker, it only opens one at a time, and it doesn't unlock until the animation is over. If the animation was shortened or sped up, if the locker unlocked at the beginning of the animation, if the precept was available on all quadrupeds companions, and if it opened every locker in a radius around the pet it would absolutely be considered a useful tool and worth equipping.

 

It could be that the newer passives have raised the bar, but I feel like (with Mag as well as Rhino's case) a passive shouldn't just be an inferior version of an existing Mod. Both Excalibur and Volt even have passives that encourage you to play to their strengths. (Although I do feel like Mag is meant to be more of a canvas to create your own play style, so I wouldn't want a passive that locked you into a certain style)

That makes a lot of sense now why Master ^Chief Thief has declined in use and started with such a high drain. The companion version (Scavenger I think?) is a pain, yes. It took me months to realize how to even trigger it (actually it was when I got and tried Master Thief that I realized it requires touching the locker for a time). Prior to that I'd just sit and stare at my Kavat thinking: "You gonna do your job anytime soon little guy?" But to your point even when you do know how to trigger it, the animation is a slog to wait through, especially in Corpus locker rooms.

[RLanzinger]

6 hours ago, (NSW)Probably_Asleep said:

It took me months to realize how to even trigger it (actually it was when I got and tried Master Thief that I realized it requires touching the locker for a time). Prior to that I'd just sit and stare at my Kavat thinking: "You gonna do your job anytime soon little guy?" But to your point even when you do know how to trigger it, the animation is a slog to wait through, especially in Corpus locker rooms.

XD... remind me a lot of things : like going on the top of lockers for my pet try to open it.

[Drasiel]

7 hours ago, (NSW)Probably_Asleep said:

It could be that the newer passives have raised the bar, but I feel like (with Mag as well as Rhino's case) a passive shouldn't just be an inferior version of an existing Mod. Both Excalibur and Volt even have passives that encourage you to play to their strengths. (Although I do feel like Mag is meant to be more of a canvas to create your own play style, so I wouldn't want a passive that locked you into a certain style)

That makes a lot of sense now why Master ^Chief Thief has declined in use and started with such a high drain. The companion version (Scavenger I think?) is a pain, yes. It took me months to realize how to even trigger it (actually it was when I got and tried Master Thief that I realized it requires touching the locker for a time). Prior to that I'd just sit and stare at my Kavat thinking: "You gonna do your job anytime soon little guy?" But to your point even when you do know how to trigger it, the animation is a slog to wait through, especially in Corpus locker rooms.

The trigger being to touch the locker might actually be a bug, at least when kubrows (and there were only kubrows at that time) would do it the trigger was to be within a certain radius of the locker and to have no other animations or precepts taking precedent. If there was an enemy they wouldn't touch the locker but once it was dead and a few seconds passed the kubrow would go back to tearing up lockers. Used to be when you were solo farming you'd pick the corpus cold planet (venus maps not europa) for locker volume then just idle at the start of the mission while your kubrow opened almost all the lockers in that one locker room we spawn in without you needing to move.

[Probably_Asleep]

3 hours ago, RLanzinger said:

XD... remind me a lot of things : like going on the top of lockers for my pet try to open it.

I did that too! I actually felt like I was dealing with a real animal sometimes. Like when my can goes to drink water and there's barely any left in his bowl, so I take it and give him a fresh bowl of clean water, and then he just stares at it. I'm like: "IT'S WATER! YOU'RE THIRSTY!" But instead he just wanders off. Then a few minutes later when I've given up I hear him licking out of the new water bowl. It's like he wants to, but it has to be his decision.

 

3 hours ago, Drasiel said:

The trigger being to touch the locker might actually be a bug, at least when kubrows (and there were only kubrows at that time) would do it the trigger was to be within a certain radius of the locker and to have no other animations or precepts taking precedent. If there was an enemy they wouldn't touch the locker but once it was dead and a few seconds passed the kubrow would go back to tearing up lockers. Used to be when you were solo farming you'd pick the corpus cold planet (venus maps not europa) for locker volume then just idle at the start of the mission while your kubrow opened almost all the lockers in that one locker room we spawn in without you needing to move.

I've never appreciated breakable containers more than after hearing your story.

[Zahnny]

1 hour ago, (NSW)Probably_Asleep said:

I did that too! I actually felt like I was dealing with a real animal sometimes. Like when my can goes to drink water and there's barely any left in his bowl, so I take it and give him a fresh bowl of clean water, and then he just stares at it. I'm like: "IT'S WATER! YOU'RE THIRSTY!" But instead he just wanders off. Then a few minutes later when I've given up I hear him licking out of the new water bowl. It's like he wants to, but it has to be his decision.

 

I've never appreciated breakable containers more than after hearing your story.

This reminds me of a Hot Take I had a while ago.

Remove needing to press X on Lockers/Containers. In a game like Warframe about speed, it unnecessarily slows you/the pacing of the mission down.

Just have it work like Master Thief does, where they unlock just by going near them, except they open when you get near them.

 

I think it'd be an overall positive change. Anyone who seriously enjoys the gameplay of having to manually open each locker enough to defend against this change has an odd idea of fun.

[Probably_Asleep]

2 minutes ago, Zahnny said:

This reminds me of a Hot Take I had a while ago.

Remove needing to press X on Lockers/Containers. In a game like Warframe about speed, it unnecessarily slows you/the pacing of the mission down.

Just have it work like Master Thief does, where they unlock just by going near them, except they open when you get near them.

 

I think it'd be an overall positive change. Anyone who seriously enjoys the gameplay of having to manually open each locker enough to defend against this change has an odd idea of fun.

I'm on board with that. I'm not sure if this happens to anyone else, but if I've got Specters or Syndicate Members tagging along and I'm opening lockers, it's easy to accidentall tell them to "Hold Position" while I'm rummaging through lockers. I'm several rooms away by the time I realize they're still holding that position.

I'd also like it if lockers could be opened with attacks (like Metroid doors I guess?). My reasoning is that sometimes I want to mark a resource, and I can't with lockers because I instantly pick it up given how close I am.

[Drasiel]

1 hour ago, Zahnny said:

This reminds me of a Hot Take I had a while ago.

Remove needing to press X on Lockers/Containers. In a game like Warframe about speed, it unnecessarily slows you/the pacing of the mission down.

Just have it work like Master Thief does, where they unlock just by going near them, except they open when you get near them.

 

I think it'd be an overall positive change. Anyone who seriously enjoys the gameplay of having to manually open each locker enough to defend against this change has an odd idea of fun.

one of my clanmates has wished for 5 years that we could just shoot or hit lockers to open them making them as accessible as crates. They could leave the prompt for caches and either open them by proximity or violence and it would be a lot better.

[Probably_Asleep]

With the recent Duviri updating specifying that all frames get a default vacuum, I just wanted to bump this.

Again, I know Mag is already an amazing Warframe and there are so many other frames out there that are starving for some more attention (including and in some cases especially their passives).

But doesn't it just itch in the back of your brain to have something so close to perfection and not take it the final 1%?

Like, if I'm cleaning my house, I'm not going to go to the garage! I've got 8-foot high shelves filled with miscellaneous junk; it's going to take days to sort all that out.
But if I go to the living room and see a spoon that needs to be brought to the kitchen sink, no problem!

I think other frames are like my garage. They need a complete bottom-down reorganization, fumigation, and scrubbing. Mag is like my living room, just a quick tidying up.

Please tidy up Mag. Especially if you're introducing a game mode that grants her passive to everyone.

[(PSN)Sentiel]

16 minutes ago, (NSW)Probably_Asleep said:

With the recent Duviri updating specifying that all frames get a default vacuum, I just wanted to bump this.

Wait what? What did I miss? When and where was this stated?

[Probably_Asleep]

10 hours ago, (PSN)Sentiel said:

Wait what? What did I miss? When and where was this stated?

It won't be in the core game, but companions are not optional within the Duviri side. So as a compromise, everyone is going to have a built-in, mod-free, vacuum and enemy radar while doing to Duviri activities.

But my worry is that, especially since Duviri is aimed at new players, there's going go be pressure to make that a core gameplay perk even outside of Duviri. And if/when THAT happens, then Mag's passive will be completely useless.

[TKDancer]

42 minutes ago, (NSW)Probably_Asleep said:

But my worry is that, especially since Duviri is aimed at new players, there's going go be pressure to make that a core gameplay perk even outside of Duviri. And if/when THAT happens, then Mag's passive will be completely useless.

id rather it happen and then eventually get a new passive for mag

[Drasiel]

43 minutes ago, (NSW)Probably_Asleep said:

It won't be in the core game, but companions are not optional within the Duviri side. So as a compromise, everyone is going to have a built-in, mod-free, vacuum and enemy radar while doing to Duviri activities.

But my worry is that, especially since Duviri is aimed at new players, there's going go be pressure to make that a core gameplay perk even outside of Duviri. And if/when THAT happens, then Mag's passive will be completely useless.

did they mention the size of the innate vacuum? because depending on its size, mag increasing that radius might actually still be quite good.

[AsffluffyZ]

Passive 4 5 9 and 10 sound the best

[Probably_Asleep]

6 hours ago, TKDancer said:

id rather it happen and then eventually get a new passive for mag

That's a solid point. I do think innate vacuum/radar would be good, after all. I liked learning to play without them at the start, but now that I have them I'd never want to go back. I won't deny there's a part of me that thinks it's a beneficial learning phase, I'd rather have more new players stay and become long-term players.

 

6 hours ago, Drasiel said:

did they mention the size of the innate vacuum? because depending on its size, mag increasing that radius might actually still be quite good.

That's a good question. I'd try to hunt it down but, but it's buried somewhere in the Prime Time on Twitch. (Like 2+ hours) I just got the info from Brozime's summary which didn't indicate a number. (Although I'd like to think that Brozime would have mentioned the number if he thought it was too low or notably high)

 

6 hours ago, AsffluffyZ said:

Passive 4 5 9 and 10 sound the best

I think my favorites are 4 and 10, actually! 4 because I just suck at spotting enemies quickly. I usually know where they are from either enemy radar or because they're actively shooting me with their glowing bullets. But 10 would be wonderful! It would encourage shields, and provide Mag with her most needed resource right out of the gate.

[AsffluffyZ]

The wall hacks used to be a part of the naramon skill tree and it was nice 

[_Anise_]

On 2023-02-23 at 9:13 PM, (NSW)Probably_Asleep said:

Please improve Mag's passive. It's just vacuum.

its better than it was, it used to be vacuum only when you bullet jumped, at least now you can drop a companion mod when playing her

[Probably_Asleep]

On 2023-04-29 at 6:00 AM, _Anise_ said:

its better than it was, it used to be vacuum only when you bullet jumped, at least now you can drop a companion mod when playing her

That's true. I remember the bullet jump vacuum being a strange mechanic. It's like, if you know something is there that you want then it was easier to just walk around and pick things up than it was to try managing bullet jumps and camera adjustments to gather everything. The only thing I ever found to be handy at that time was on The Index where she could pull the points toward her doing that; it was handy for picking up a large pile all at once or getting points that fell into hard to reach areas. (Sadly her current passive doesn't work on Index Points any more)

So yes, I agree that it's been improved. But at least they could have made her passive the same radius as the companion mods! Mag's radius is 8m, while Vacuum is 11.5m and Fetch is 13.5m. So it's not even worth it to save a mod slot on companions. (Not like there's a lot of competition anyway for companion mod slots in the first place)