Give us Vote Kick function

[KVenom]

Listen up Fogde, and listen closely:

Trolls like Shoddy-an and ignoramuses with a "moral high ground" complex like Emmi-mimimi will tell you that "it's a bad Idea" or make points that make no sense about "things being toxic" or whatever.

Here's how it really is - Forums Dewellers hate change. They either been not playing the game for ages, or just playing among their sensitive closed friend group. Like there is never a middle ground with them.

The reality is - People are already kicking those they don't like. Without any voting may I add. Netbalancer is just one of the examples that I made, there are plenty of other traffic-regulating apps that would allow you to disconnect anyone who is conected to the host. Or they can just pull the Ethernet cable out for 1 second, thus kicking EVERYONE in their squad or leaving it themselves.

But we don't want that, do we? No, we want things to be done the RIGHT WAY, without risking bans  for Netbalancer, without damaging our Ethernet cable sockets, and OF COURSE while being able to remove harmfull elements from the mission Squad. And, obviously, all of it being decided not by Host, not by 1 squad member, but the whole squad. That's why Voting is important. And same for the option to leave Squad without leaving the mission.

[KIREEK]

On 2023-04-16 at 1:47 PM, Fogde said:

Please, for the love of all that is holy, give us the function to Vote Kick players.. I see so many bounty leeches, especially on Orb Vallis, but you can't do anything about them. They just fly somewhere where they wont get killed by mobs and then go afk till you have done the bounty for them.
I dispise these low life players who just enters a bounty and expect to get free rep., so please, give us a way to get rid of these players. Preferable also that if they get kicked enough times within a certain timeframe, they can't enter bounties again for like 72 hours as punishment.

Sadly it has been discussed before.

Your best bet would be to report the player avoiding the main objective bounties and it's possible that by stating in chat they will quickly realize what's going on and either join you or bail the squad.
I've had my share of users who asked if "a report would happen if they went mining instead", upon confirming it the player would instantly bail.

You also have the abuse.
As an example you have the Ignis wraith bp for 50 pl, countless users, incentivized by youtubers, reddit users, alliances and discord servers went on to cause hundreds of ingame reports and quite a significant number of support tickets or reports in the forums, this resulted in warnings being issued on some users and the clogging of the ticket system.

If you have punishments being sent for users and the situation happens, then what do you think will happen when there are no rules or punishments for the abuse?

While i can't say is common, i have landed in squads where all 3 players are buddies or clanmembers, when one is negleted after dying or when one user is called for an afk report, all users in squad will report you.
If you give those users a kick tool, the afk gameplay, toxicity and behavior will continue and you, the player bringing a reality check to them will be kicked, potentially before you gathered enough proof for the afk report.

While i understand that you want something to change, i assure you the best option will be for you to report the user, takes 5 minutes but it will always be better than the usual "right click, kick", the ammount of effort that takes is proportional to the results, aka terrible.

[Yrkul]

Oh. It's that discussion again. And the answer is once again (for the 481th time), that it'll just be abused to a degree, that it'll make the original problem seem minuscule in comparison. A lot of MMOs have a problem with griefing through abuse of their vote-to-kick function. It is astounding, that people still seem oblivious to the damage potential.

If only the ignore function would also block players from grouping up with us, we wouldn't have this discussion every 3½ weeks. Acting like a 🍆 should be a lonely experience. And again, a lot of MMOs already have this function. With DE's penchant for stealing getting inspiration from other games, one would expect this to be implemented after vote-to-kick being requested for the 42th time.

[KVenom]

15 минут назад, Yrkul сказал:

It is astounding, that people still seem oblivious to the damage potential.

The damage may only come if we ignore the "VOTE" part of this thing.

I guess some of you forgot how votes work, so lemme F%^KING spell it for you:

1 Guy initiates, 2 others vote. If 50% or more votes "no" or not voting - No kick. 50% here is literally 1 person. 1 Person saying no or not voting.

Alright, lemme educate you on a very, very old game called Team Fortress 2.  It has problems with bot accounts, cheaters, trolls, etc. It's been mostly abandoned by devs. Like, no updates for 5 years abandoned. And guess bloody what? People still play it.

"But Mister KVenom, how are they handling all of these harmfull people?"  - you might ask.

VOTE KICKING. It's been there for all the 16 years game been existing. And despite the odds, it still helps.

"buT pEOPle wILL AbuSE it" - Honey, sweetie, people will abuse everything. Always. Heck, they are already doing the "DAMAGE" that you and your kindred-thinking bretheren are so afraid of. As I already said TWICE - By pulling out Ethernet cables or using questionable apps.

[(XBOX)Shodian]

35 minutes ago, KVenom said:

The damage may only come if we ignore the "VOTE" part of this thing.

Let's say your most played/favorite warframe is hated by the community, you are good with it and don't use it to troll. You enter a pub game. Bam, you're voted to be kicked cause you're playing the warframe everyone hate. 

Oh you didn't bring a meta weapon? Bam! Kicked. See how that can get frustrating? That's why vote to kick systems are bad.

38 minutes ago, KVenom said:

people will abuse everything.

Ah yes, the whole "well everyone will abuse everything so why bother trying" argument. 

39 minutes ago, KVenom said:

so lemme F%^KING spell it for you:

Dude eat a snickers. You're not yourself when you're hungry.

[rhoenix]

Another way to put the issue is that in most games with a Vote Kick function, there are more than 4 total players - usually 8 or more.  With a larger number of players in a given game, trolling with vote kicking is much harder.  

In the context of Warframe, there are 4 total players for a group only, which means the potential for abuse for a vote kick is much, much higher.

I think this is DE's reasoning for why it hasn't been implemented until now, but I cannot say for certain.

Given that issue, can you think of a better way of resolving the original problem of bad actor players than vote kicking, given its potential for abuse in the context of Warframe?

Someone even suggested matchmaking based on positive forum reputation once, which was shot down (rightfully) because it placed new players by necessity in the same pool as bad actors.

[(NSW)Probably_Asleep]

Sort of related, funny story:

Typically I play solo because my friends all stopped playing. Also, solo is actually really fun; I'd recommend it for anyone who struggles with human interaction or has a low tolerance for unfairness. But I digress! This is when I WAS playing with friends...

 

My friend and I were playing with the mics on, and a rando joined our squad. She spent the entire mission talking about the new guy. Things like "aw, this noob still hasn't learned to stretch out their bullet jumps." And "I wonder if the noob wants us to wait." She wasn't saying it in a mean tone of voice; it was more like she was relating to what it's like being a new player.

Then, near the end of the mission, I asked: "Hey, if I can hear you, wouldn't that mean that everyone on the squad can?"

And my friend gasped and was like: "Wait... oh no... does that mean? I'm so sorry, noob! I didn't mean anything! Please don't leave!"

As soon as the mission was over, the noob left. And to this day we still tease my friend for how much of a jerk she unintentionally was.

[Yrkul]

30 minutes ago, KVenom said:

The damage may only come if we ignore the "VOTE" part of this thing.

I guess some of you forgot how votes work, so lemme F%^KING spell it for you:

1 Guy initiates, 2 others vote. If 50% or more votes "no" or not voting - No kick. 50% here is literally 1 person. 1 Person saying no or not voting.

And once you have a couple of people in on the joke, the result is as sure as a russian election. It has been pointed out before, here and in other threads. But I guess your argument would fall flat on its face, if you didn't ignore that.

30 minutes ago, KVenom said:

Alright, lemme educate you on a very, very old game called Team Fortress 2.  It has problems with bot accounts, cheaters, trolls, etc. It's been mostly abandoned by devs. Like, no updates for 5 years abandoned. And guess bloody what? People still play it.

"But Mister KVenom, how are they handling all of these harmfull people?"  - you might ask.

VOTE KICKING. It's been there for all the 16 years game been existing. And despite the odds, it still helps.

Apples, meet oranges. Here's another old game: World of Warcraft. Remember? Bit of a cess pit at times. Had the vote-to-kick function too. I remember. I got kicked for everything from not having BiS, being the wrong class, being in the dungeon for the first time, needing on an upgrade, or simply just for a laugh. I've been kicked at the start of a dungeon, during loot rolls and even just before exiting. So don't give me your false equivalencies. I, and so many others, here and in so many reiterations of this thread, are pointing out the problem as experienced in games more akin to Warframe, than TF2.

Oh, and FYI, you haven't earned being called 'Mister'. You are way in the deficit in that regard.

30 minutes ago, KVenom said:

"buT pEOPle wILL AbuSE it" - Honey, sweetie, people will abuse everything. Always. Heck, they are already doing the "DAMAGE" that you and your kindred-thinking bretheren are so afraid of. As I already said TWICE - By pulling out Ethernet cables or using questionable apps.

And you can always spot a faltering argumentation, once someone starts using demeaning names and repeating faulty arguments, as if that would make them more valid.

I'd rather have people ruin their computer or get permabanned while grieving other players. Giving them an in-game function to do the same and removing those risks would encourage such behaviour, and could even be interpreted as a tacit endorsement by some. Plenty of functions in the game are already being used to grief players, and I don't really feel we need another one.

I do find your fervor for this feature's implementation a bit... curious. And judging by your displayed demeanor, that vote-to-kick button would get used a lot on your end. But maybe that is just it. Maybe you just want a new toy to sour the gaming experience of your fellow players, and don't want to ruin your cable socket.

Again, being able to block people from grouping up with you if they're on your ignore list would over time solve the problem, without the collateral damage.

[AntifreezeUnder0]

11 hours ago, KVenom said:

Oh, you are so "smart". Bravoooo. Tell me what happens, when you use Quit Mission? Do your rewards save? Does your spent time MAGICALLY RETURNS?

Does the timed mission like a Void Fissure returns back, if it was expired?

We need "Leave Squad" button to be availiable outside of Eidolon, in order to to not loose progress if we are in an unfit party or we want to stay alone on the mission.

And we need Vote Kick to remove malicious actors who do their best to disrupt the mission, like Banish Spammers.

Just because one is lazy to set party to solo or invite only, or make squad for specific purposes, one does not get to complain later that he went into public matchmaking and then gets to whine how someone did not act as one wanted or call them leeches because one just did not happen to be meta slaves rushing and killing everything or did not do the min max, high dps builds.

All the tools to punish bad behaviour is in game. You have report option and if they actualy did anything wrong game will punish them or one reporting falsely.

You dont run into burning house, and then complaint you got burnt. Same as public matchmaking, you dont go into thinking everyone will have telepathic powers to align to ones way of how mission should be played.

[TheSarkY]

We really dont need kick option, it would be abused alot and many would be kicked for stupid reasons, you have invite only, solo and in open worlds you can just leave squad and keep going alone. If you want something serious just recruit people. Vote kick would just bring much more hate. i dont agree with all decision DE made (old credit farm, railjack with corpus that is not railjack, nerf of every "op" warframe or weapon instead of buffing others and so on) but they do make most good decision and thats why game is still great and keeps going. So small thing and vote kick would bring alot of hate between people.

[KVenom]

10 часов назад, Yrkul сказал:

World of Warcraft. Remember? Bit of a cess pit at times.

Yup, and it's dead for all the different reasons. As you pointed out - apples meet oranges. WOW died because of it's financial model and very boring and unchangeable gameplay model - meanwhile TF2 and Warframe are completely free-to-play action-based character shooters. And are still alive.

10 часов назад, Yrkul сказал:

And you can always spot a faltering argumentation, once someone starts using demeaning names and repeating faulty arguments, as if that would make them more valid.

I am not demeaning you, your ignorance of the actual problem is what literally makes me see you and likes of you as foolish children. Nothing more, nothing less.
As I said - the damage of abuse that you are SO AFRAID OF is already done. And DE does nothing about it yet. So the best course of action is simple:

If you can't beat them - join them and rule over them. That way you can minimize the damage and actually make things easier.

Also nice assumptions. Personally, I will be mostly using "Leave Squad" button more than a vote, since Warframe's community still has 2 problems - Idiots(like you, no offence) and trolls. First are abundant and second are traveling in groups.

5 часов назад, AntifreezeUnder0 сказал:

Just because one is lazy to set party to solo or invite only,

It's not about lazyness you fool. It's about a situation like "I wanna go for 10 minutes more on Survival, but my teammates wanna leave and it's a Survival, so Mob spawning gets screwed when people separate too far". Fixing mob spawning mechanics would take too long and too much, so Leave Squad is the next best thing. As for voting - there are plenty of trolls, including those that spam Banish maliciously to stop you from doing the objective.

[KVenom]

Alright, personall matters finally closed, I am way less irritable. Sorry for that.

I tried to look at the sitution by the eyes of @Yrkul (sorry for calling you an idiot outright, btw), and I saw a few actual reasons why you really guys should fear Vote kicks.

So yah, for starters, vote kicking system should work like this:

1. The system only kicks the player out of squad, not from the mission. It's like the forced Host migration, but without pulling out the plug.
2. Vote Kicking should be only available within first 5 minutes/5 waves of the mission. This is to prevent trolling people by kicking them late-wave.
3. The one who started the vote and the one who is not being kicked are not voting. Only the other 2 squad members vote. If even 1 votes "no" or doesn't vote - the voting is cancelled. For Raids, shall they return, it should be at least 4 votes for "Yes", or else Voting is cancelled.

And yes, I agree with Yrkul, ignoring system should prevent people from joining your mission. I personally was under impression that it already does? I have no evidence to either prove or disprove that, so I'd like context.

[Yrkul]

Nah. That apology wasn't all that sincere, as your later posts so thoroughly demonstrated

[Yrkul]

As for ignore not blocking group-ups, I've ended up with several people on my ignore list over the years, and while I don't hear them... Well, there are other reasons they're on that list.

[KVenom]

8 минут назад, Yrkul сказал:

And here I was about to press "send" on a rather brutal reply

Ahahahaha, don't flatter yourself, kid. Also that "russian election" comment - NEWS FLASH: all major elections are a SCAM. So yah, no point getting political, my edgy friend.

It's not as intrusive, as you think tho. In my 10+ years of experience, it only gets "abused" in the way you think for the first  year or so. After that - people just get annoyed by it and don't do sh#%, unless they are harmed themselves by either of the parties. As I said, you guys should have actual reasons to be afraid, but not the silly ones that you listed.

 

[Yrkul]

And we're right back where we started.

And you might want to dial back on the whole "kid" thing. One of the things I'm spending my time in retirement on is geopolitical analysis and information warfare. So your generalization on elections is a bit comical, as is your assumption of our age difference.

And I was playing WoW in its prime, and through the years, a  whole host of other online games. In my 15+ years of MMOs, I've seen plenty to contradict your claims... kid.

[KVenom]

1 час назад, Yrkul сказал:

One of the things I'm spending my time in retirement on is geopolitical analysis and information warfare.

Riiight. And I am the Queen of England, squirt. You do realise  it's the internet and such bold claims will be laughed at, at best? =)

1 час назад, Yrkul сказал:

And I was playing WoW in its prime, and through the years, a  whole host of other online games. In my 15- years of MMOs, I've seen plenty to contradict your claims

Go ahead, show any examples. So far you only proven me right by being even more obnoxious and self-righteous than I am. And it's quite an achievement. Bravo. Almost made me retract my apology.

I mean, come on, are you seriously trying to start a dong measuring competition here with numbers? So far, you are just being edgy and/or showing 0 proof, considering that WOW right now has quite small player numbers, compared to TF2 or Warframe. Not to mention the gameplay is radically different, and so is Community dynamic.

Show me the real example. When voting actually ruined the game. Where it was "abused" for more than a year with simmilar restrictions to those I placed.

[AntifreezeUnder0]

4 hours ago, KVenom said:

It's not about lazyness you fool. It's about a situation like "I wanna go for 10 minutes more on Survival, but my teammates wanna leave and it's a Survival, so Mob spawning gets screwed when people separate too far". Fixing mob spawning mechanics would take too long and too much, so Leave Squad is the next best thing. As for voting - there are plenty of trolls, including those that spam Banish maliciously to stop you from doing the objective.

Well if you want specific lenght mission with specific goal, then recruite chat is made for reason, dont be lazy , else play solo or ask friends,its fine to leave in first 5 mins if others dont enjoy walking simulator when tryhards just kill everything or something comes up and need to leave. 

You got all the tools to make best squad there is, if you lazy and just like to complain then its different thing, and this inst about vote kick system, its more about others have telepathic powers and obligations follows one random player will else names follows.

[Yrkul]

32 minutes ago, KVenom said:

Riiight. And I am the Queen of England, squirt. You do realise  it's the internet and such bold claims will be laughed at, at best? =)

Whatever, kid. You obviously try to appeal to authority through seniority, and presented a very simplified claim regarding a democratic process. Both were fallacies, and I simply pointed that out.

32 minutes ago, KVenom said:

Go ahead, show any examples.

That is a very insincere request, as few people record their gaming activities and save them for decades, in case they have to prove a point. Besides, look at who is claiming the sky is falling, unless we get a way to kick people, who may or may not be the root of the problem.

32 minutes ago, KVenom said:

So far you only proven me right by being even more obnoxious and self-righteous than I am. And it's quite an achievement. Bravo.

I am proving the need of a vote-to-kick function by... being obnoxious? Pretzel logic much?

But at least you admit at being obnoxious and self-righteous.

32 minutes ago, KVenom said:

Almost made me retract my apology.

Do it! Your later posts made your apology ring more and more hollow with every reply. 

32 minutes ago, KVenom said:

I mean, come on, are you seriously trying to start a dong measuring competition here with numbers? So far, you are just being edgy and/or showing 0 proof, considering that WOW right now has quite small player numbers, compared to TF2 or Warframe. Not to mention the gameplay is radically different, and so is Community dynamic.

Show me the real example. When voting actually ruined the game. Where it was "abused" for more than a year with simmilar restrictions to those I placed.

The one trying to reinforce his claims with numbers were you, kid. And you are still comparing apples to oranges, building your arguments on false equivalency. You are also calling for proof, knowing full well, that such a presentation if thoroughly out of the scope of anyone without access to all the relevant data from each of the three games in question. That is a "burden of proof" fallacy, a rather telling tactic.

One thing your demand does show, is that you are now relying on underhanded tactics to try and "win" the discussion. It has devolved into you bundling up your claims with fallacies holding it together, and wielding it like a club. But do go on. You are showing everyone here your true self, bit by bit, post by ugly post.

Perhaps you should try to look at the old threads on this subject. Plenty of argumentation against the vote-to-kick function, far outweighing proponents.

[KVenom]

Nice wall of text, don't see examples. In the infamous words of Richter Belmont, "your words are as empty as your soul".

 

[Yrkul]

36 minutes ago, KVenom said:

Nice wall of text, don't see examples. In the infamous words of Richter Belmont, "your words are as empty as your soul".

 

Whatever, kid.

[KVenom]

Yup. All talk, mister "information warfare". Don't forget your Bud Light pack on the way out.

[(XBOX)Shodian]

[Yrkul]

1 hour ago, KVenom said:

Yup. All talk, mister "information warfare". Don't forget your Bud Light pack on the way out.

So much for not being political, kid.

[KVenom]

14 минут назад, Yrkul сказал:

So much for not being political, kid.

Huh????

What's the fact that you sound like you drink horrible beer got to do with anything political?

Okay buddy, you been hanging too long in /pol/.