Please remove all rewards from abusers of abort in Lich Hunt and Sisters of Parvos hunts!

[(PSN)magusat999]

Whats going on here is players are purposely not completing the missions, and not helping squadmates if their Sister / Lich shows up first. The leech behavior also includes finish killing all the Thralls / Hounds for themselves (we might share those kills but nonetheless ANNOYING when you bust them down and here comes Cracky to finish it...) AND THEN aborting.

This abort almost always creates a host migration, which almost always failed. I went to three planets, only to have a few successful missions. My last encounter with my Sister of Parvos, I was in the midst of the fight when another player aborted - a player I helped earlier, and caused the whole game to crash. Besides the abort is the self extraction. I had players get my help, then run to extraction while Im fighting my target, giving me the digital middle finger.

I think changes are in order! Here are my suggesions:

• No rewards for aborting, no murmur, no hunt progress - NOTHING. The squadmates who stayed will still get their portion, tyvm, but YOU WONT.
• No early or self extract in hunt stages. You have to stay until the mission is over and extract as a group, just like the RJ portion of the missions.
• I'd like the fight to be self contained - like Ropalyst - ALL PLAYERS are locked into the fight, each one, until they are over. There shouldn't be this one dude killing Thralls and Hounds 100 meters away and then running to extraction!
• Players may not go to extraction during hunts! Extraction is CLOSED until all enemies have been dealt with.
• Missions MUST BE COMPLETED to get ANY rewards, including Murmurs and Hunt progress.

I think those changes can address the leeching going on. Those people are messing up the joy of play and wasting our time

[Jivy]

I mean this has been happening with non lich stuff as well just report if someone is leeching on support 

[(PSN)magusat999]

Just now, Jivy said:

I mean this has been happening with non lich stuff as well just report if someone is leeching on support 

Reporting individual cases would be a full time job. We need overall changes so it cannot happen in the first place.

[Cerikus]

6 minutes ago, (PSN)magusat999 said:

I think changes are in order! Here are my suggesions:

I don't know if these specific suggestions would actually help, but I agree with you totally.

The system unfortunatelly needs another revisit. The way it works is simply flawed from the begining. The behavior you describe is an outcome of people trying to grind through this bad system as quickly as possible, because when you do liches/sisters, you are not doing anything else, which is horrible.

[AntifreezeUnder0]

I would like simply each time lich or sister spawns and you ignore them, they lvl up. Either if good guess, bad guess or ignore(maybe if ignored it lvls up by 2, but then again with enough of requiem beacons one can do cheese strats )

But with game bugs which can occuer often times ones who play geniunly will get punished due to errors.

Beside to avoid this type behaviour people just play solo or form similar minded people squad.

I often times rather play solo, since the no stabbers where  too much and blocking other people murmur progress or lich progress by ignoring their lich and wasting potential of other people liches. 

 

 

 

[SolStreak]

One way I can think for Lich ignorer, is to make the their Lich teleports to them if they go like 2 rooms away.

Might also disables the extraction/triggers lockdown if the Lich is still active (I mean, it's their conquered planet, why don't they have full system control).

Funnier yet, when their Lich teleport they'll get that stunlock throw animation Liches usually do.

[Grommile]

Better plan:

Redesign the missions so that there is no motive for people to want to do this.

[(PSN)haphazardlynamed]

One reason that people leave immediately after stabbing their Lich, is that after doing so any further thrall/murmer progress does not apply to them; as their Lich Immediately changes territories.

-so there's no benefit to staying.

 

Note that this was not always the case, before the Lich rework it was possible to work towards your next requiem symbol within the same mission.

 

?perhaps that should be changed back? to incentivize players to stay the rest of the mission?

-After stabbing a lich, additional murmur gained in mission should apply to unlocking your next requiem. Don't have the lich swap territory until After returning to orbiter.

[(PSN)haphazardlynamed]

2 hours ago, AntifreezeUnder0 said:

I would like simply each time lich or sister spawns and you ignore them, they lvl up.

 

 

 

That would be terribly punishing to new players.

A low-ranked player who has difficulty fighting a rank5 lich has a legitimate reason to avoid stabbing. They need to proceed carefully and only stab when they are certain of their Requiem.

Your proposal just makes it worse for these new players; now their lich Always ranks up whether they're ready or not, trapping them in an unwinnable situation.

[-AncientWarrior-]

Best plan: - Make all final confrontations solo! no more problems ever

[AntifreezeUnder0]

On 2023-06-11 at 6:28 PM, (PSN)haphazardlynamed said:

That would be terribly punishing to new players.

A low-ranked player who has difficulty fighting a rank5 lich has a legitimate reason to avoid stabbing. They need to proceed carefully and only stab when they are certain of their Requiem.

Your proposal just makes it worse for these new players; now their lich Always ranks up whether they're ready or not, trapping them in an unwinnable situation.

Well its the cost you pay to get op weapons. And would be that you actualy get them when you are able to utilize skill and knowledge of proper building and the usual cheese strats to get kuva or tenet weps which will be top tear for rest of the game and only incarnon wep type comes close to be on par or better.

Still not stabbing in group play you halt progress of other people  murmurs. Because each stab of lich, if bad gives 1/3 to 1/4 of progress barr per mission on top of thrall murmurs. 

You dont go into eidolons and hope to go tridolons with bad set up, you improve untill you can do them. Lich/sister system should be same. But game always go bit offroad in that part. OP weps have easy method to get, and mediocre or bad weapons you have invest hefty to get dissapointment and go back to you kuva weps you got at mr5.

[(PSN)haphazardlynamed]

23 minutes ago, AntifreezeUnder0 said:

Well its the cost you pay to get op weapons. And would be that you actualy get them when you are able to utilize skill and knowledge of proper building and the usual cheese strats to get kuva or tenet weps which will be top tear for rest of the game and only incarnon wep type comes close to be on par or better.

Still not stabbing in group play you halt progress of other people  murmurs. Because each stab of lich, if bad gives 1/3 to 1/4 of progress barr per mission on top of thrall murmurs. 

You dont go into eidolons and hope to go tridolons with bad set up, you improve untill you can do them. Lich/sister system should be same. But game always go bit offroad in that part. OP weps have easy method to get, and mediocre or bad weapons you have invest hefty to get dissapointment and go back to you kuva weps you got at mr5.

 

I have to disagree with that Elitist attitude.

Liches are open to MR5, and the 'slow and steady' careful strategy is legitimate; in fact it was the exact gameplay loop DE initially described when they were first introduced. Thralls were intended as the primary means of gaining Murmer, not Fail Stabs.

The Fast Stab method came later on, and is primarially geared towards high level speed runners; who do not represent All Players. Especially in a Public Match. If you want to exclude low-ranked players from your squad, use LFG. Public is open to all levels.

[DdraigTheRedd]

if u mad just go play solo dude, sometimes ignoring a lich is the best option for not sure about the requiem mod or its just faster, have you ever grinded a 60% wep or ephemeras, I would get mad at someone slowing me down, just play ALONE if you are not comfortable with what players do.

[AntifreezeUnder0]

On 2023-06-13 at 6:00 AM, (PSN)haphazardlynamed said:

 

I have to disagree with that Elitist attitude.

Liches are open to MR5, and the 'slow and steady' careful strategy is legitimate; in fact it was the exact gameplay loop DE initially described when they were first introduced. Thralls were intended as the primary means of gaining Murmer, not Fail Stabs.

The Fast Stab method came later on, and is primarially geared towards high level speed runners; who do not represent All Players. Especially in a Public Match. If you want to exclude low-ranked players from your squad, use LFG. Public is open to all levels.

What so elitist if i want others to not hinder progress for others due to certain people simply ignore stabbing, blocking chance to spawn other persons lich and blocking murmur progress. 

Which sounds more of abuse, kill thralls and stab lich, gain mumur progress and simply get you lich to next lvl, or 1 person messes with 3 other people lich hunt progress because for them its better to leech off other 3 , and if by chance their lich spawns, ignore it and block for rest of squad their lich.

Of course in both scenarios solo play is safe option. But still in public match no stabbers are the ones greifing which results on progress hindering for rest of squad.

It has nothing to do with low lvls, since ones using and abusing such method are ones who done their research and know what they are doing.

[Grommile]

13 hours ago, AntifreezeUnder0 said:

Which sounds more of abuse, kill thralls and stab lich, gain mumur progress and simply get you lich to next lvl, or 1 person messes with 3 other people lich hunt progress because for them its better to leech off other 3 , and if by chance their lich spawns, ignore it and block for rest of squad their lich.

Neither.

The first sounds like naïve stoicism, and the second like pragmatism.

[(PSN)CptCombustanut]

On 2023-06-17 at 9:46 PM, AntifreezeUnder0 said:

What so elitist if i want others to not hinder progress for others due to certain people simply ignore stabbing, blocking chance to spawn other persons lich and blocking murmur progress. 

Which sounds more of abuse, kill thralls and stab lich, gain mumur progress and simply get you lich to next lvl, or 1 person messes with 3 other people lich hunt progress because for them its better to leech off other 3 , and if by chance their lich spawns, ignore it and block for rest of squad their lich.

Of course in both scenarios solo play is safe option. But still in public match no stabbers are the ones greifing which results on progress hindering for rest of squad.

It has nothing to do with low lvls, since ones using and abusing such method are ones who done their research and know what they are doing.

What? You make it sound like people who are playing on public are actively trying to screw people over. Like sure, blast it as fast as you can if you’re not gonna stab, but stop pretending like it’s not normally just people making the tedious grind faster for themselves. 
 

I go in publics and do this often. People will do the same. Now, I usually keep that Kuva Hek on me and shred the guy immediately anyway, but I’ve taken murmurs from people, and people have taken murmurs from me. It’s a community, and your obsession for optimal run time is just not something you should force on everyone. it’s a give and take. No one is abusing YOU. They would probably let you do the same thing if y’all stuck together through the rest of the system.

If they leave after the mission or even just leave early, whatever my lich hunt takes an extra 2-3 minutes or god forbid, an extra 5 minutes! Whatever shall I do? I’m only a mr27 who has so much time on my hands I’m spawning liches for Ephemeras and maxing out bonuses, and kullervo won’t be finished crafting until saturday! I have such a tight schedule.

If it dampers your fun, it’s not cause it’s bad. You just don’t like it. You can do what they do and benefit from the system  that’s in place in that way too, but you don’t.

[AntifreezeUnder0]

2 minutes ago, (PSN)CptCombustanut said:

What? You make it sound like people who are playing on public are actively trying to screw people over. Like sure, blast it as fast as you can if you’re not gonna stab, but stop pretending like it’s not normally just people making the tedious grind faster for themselves. 
 

I go in publics and do this often. People will do the same. Now, I usually keep that Kuva Hek on me and shred the guy immediately anyway, but I’ve taken murmurs from people, and people have taken murmurs from me. It’s a community, and your obsession for optimal run time is just not something you should force on everyone. it’s a give and take. No one is abusing YOU. They would probably let you do the same thing if y’all stuck together through the rest of the system.

If they leave after the mission or even just leave early, whatever my lich hunt takes an extra 2-3 minutes or god forbid, an extra 5 minutes! Whatever shall I do? I’m only a mr27 who has so much time on my hands I’m spawning liches for Ephemeras and maxing out bonuses, and kullervo won’t be finished crafting until saturday! I have such a tight schedule.

If it dampers your fun, it’s not cause it’s bad. You just don’t like it. You can do what they do and benefit from the system  that’s in place in that way too, but you don’t.

Its not about fun.

If 1 player on purpose ignores his lich, and doesnt stab, it hinders other 3 player progress and as you said if mission it self is just 2-3 min it just block 3 other people chance for their lich to spawn, because of 1 hindering murmur progress and lich spawn. Its not big deal, but if you face multiple people in full squad in 20 missions in a row who just ignore  their lich it is an issue. 

Basic line is that of 1 player on purpose grief 3 other player progress for sake of oww easier lich kill it`s a problem.

Imagine if 1 players actions ment you loos your mission progress overall and you would not be singing same song. 

 

[(PSN)CptCombustanut]

2 minutes ago, AntifreezeUnder0 said:

Its not about fun.

If 1 player on purpose ignores his lich, and doesnt stab, it hinders other 3 player progress and as you said if mission it self is just 2-3 min it just block 3 other people chance for their lich to spawn, because of 1 hindering murmur progress and lich spawn. Its not big deal, but if you face multiple people in full squad in 20 missions in a row who just ignore  their lich it is an issue. 

Basic line is that of 1 player on purpose grief 3 other player progress for sake of oww easier lich kill it`s a problem.

Imagine if 1 players actions ment you loos your mission progress overall and you would not be singing same song. 

 

Yeah but that doesn’t happen. I’m far enough along that if I really care, I could down all 4 liches in less than 2 minutes and get no stabs. Sure at that point, it’s a bit annoying, but hey I bring the right tools along so that it’s not more annoying. The sped up process is just worth that for me (I’m on lich number 5 this week, I really want that gosh darn impact ephemera and this current one has it, I’m so excited). 
 

It’s just not a huge deal to the point where I think it’s worth calling it abuse (in the sense of it being malicious, i wouldn’t even call it an abuse of the system, because its doing things they way things are intended.)

If we start calling not stabbing a lich, for any reason besides just inconveniencing everybody, griefing then we get into really gritty line drawing like running around an invasion and doing the objective before anyone else and not running public fissures with at least exceptional (I think that’s what tier 2 is called) relics because of the loss of chance at specific rewards, and at that point, you should just be running curated squads for everything and it would probably just be easier to remove public matchmaking from the game. 
 

If my next lich hunt gets the statistical anomaly that is scaring off everybodies liches, every mission and no one stabs, I’ll convert to your school of thought. Outside of that though, I think it’s a bit dramatic to say it’s a big a deal as it is.

Also what do you mean losing mission progress? Like them extracting and causing the dreaded host migration?

[(PSN)magusat999]

On 2023-06-12 at 11:36 PM, DdraigTheRedd said:

if u mad just go play solo dude, sometimes ignoring a lich is the best option for not sure about the requiem mod or its just faster, have you ever grinded a 60% wep or ephemeras, I would get mad at someone slowing me down, just play ALONE if you are not comfortable with what players do.

First of all its not about "being mad". Sounds like some grade school response. Its about promoting teamwork and helping each other. We are in the mission together, we all chose to play as a group, so the game should encourage us to stay that way. And suggesting solo play every time someone complains about how stupid other players are is a dumb, tired cop-out. Everyone cannot solo play - that's why some people choose groups to play with; I help people weaker than me, and people stronger than me helps me - I LIKE helping others, unlike selfish players like yourself. And since all chose group, then its expected to play as a group. Telling people to play solo is something any idiot can figure out and choose themselves, we shouldn't be forced to play solo when the game can be optimized - and playing solo all the damn time is not solving the issue. I think you can suggest better than that.

And screw your "slowing me down" crying. If you want to be with an elite group that prioritizes speed over teamwork and helping each other, go to recruiting, stop jumping into randoms and messing up people's games. I told you its more than just game play, its causing host migration problems, jumping out like that - but you didn't consider that part. Stop being selfish, help other players and play the game! You are the one who sounds like he needs to play solo, leeching help from other players then running away and leaving the people who just helped you! that kind of play is exactly why it needs an overhaul.

[TheReaverOfDarkness]

On 2023-06-11 at 4:33 AM, (PSN)magusat999 said:

Missions MUST BE COMPLETED to get ANY rewards, including Murmurs and Hunt progress.

This is already the case. The only things you can keep on mission failure or abandonment are selection of the larva and defeat or victory of the lich. You don't keep the murmurs, you don't keep the requiem reveal (that's why they make you wait until after the mission to see what it is), and it seems to me that if you fail or ditch a mission after collecting several murmurs, it feels like the total number of murmurs you need to progress goes up, and then your lich gets angrier at you anyway and is more likely to show up in missions even if you aren't ready to confront them.

[CrownOfShadows]

On 2023-06-11 at 6:33 AM, (PSN)magusat999 said:

Whats going on here is players are purposely not completing the missions, and not helping squadmates if their Sister / Lich shows up first. The leech behavior also includes finish killing all the Thralls / Hounds for themselves (we might share those kills but nonetheless ANNOYING when you bust them down and here comes Cracky to finish it...) AND THEN aborting.

This abort almost always creates a host migration, which almost always failed. I went to three planets, only to have a few successful missions. My last encounter with my Sister of Parvos, I was in the midst of the fight when another player aborted - a player I helped earlier, and caused the whole game to crash. Besides the abort is the self extraction. I had players get my help, then run to extraction while Im fighting my target, giving me the digital middle finger.

I think changes are in order! Here are my suggesions:

• No rewards for aborting, no murmur, no hunt progress - NOTHING. The squadmates who stayed will still get their portion, tyvm, but YOU WONT.
• No early or self extract in hunt stages. You have to stay until the mission is over and extract as a group, just like the RJ portion of the missions.
• I'd like the fight to be self contained - like Ropalyst - ALL PLAYERS are locked into the fight, each one, until they are over. There shouldn't be this one dude killing Thralls and Hounds 100 meters away and then running to extraction!
• Players may not go to extraction during hunts! Extraction is CLOSED until all enemies have been dealt with.
• Missions MUST BE COMPLETED to get ANY rewards, including Murmurs and Hunt progress.

I think those changes can address the leeching going on. Those people are messing up the joy of play and wasting our time

Yeah I've always despised this behavior, but I understand it. People are exploiting the lich mechanics for their own benefit, and could care less about their teammates. It's disgusting but well, people are disgusting.

They should definitely fix it. I run all my liches solo because of it. Sisters charge so fast that it's still worth it for me to go pub on those, at least for the first planet or two, but yeah, liches are a solo affair for me, any efficiency loss is paid for in peace of mind.

[BloodForCavalero]

This is a beat-horse subject that DE, obviously, has no interest in addressing.

Just do your Lich/Sister hunting solo. That's it.

- You can also throw me a tell, if you're on PC -