Can DE JUST MAKE ABANDONING LICHES AN OPTION?!

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

16 hours ago, Circle_of_Psi said:

With the possibility of Infested Liches, I highly doute DE will care to implement this, Numbers and Profit is what is on the table right now and DE could lose that sweet dollar if Liches can be removed/killed easily 

At least that's my guess

I doubt people are buying plat specifically to trade for liches.

and outside of trading there is nothing connected to Liches that directly involve money outside of a 1 time purchase item and an overpriced req relic pack.

Liches aren’t profitable. And the inclusion of another faction of Liches just further showcases that we need a “delete lich” button.

[Vindicus8235]

I just returned to the game a few weeks ago.  I have 1k+ hours in WF but mostly around the time of the game's launch and some around 2018.  I recently decided to try and get a tenet primary weapon.  So, I followed a youtube guide (as you do for everything in this game as the game if you were to learn it simply by playing is a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma).  I ran the mission a number of times to get the spawn but it never showed up, so I was getting confused + frustrated.  Turns out, you can't spawn a Sister if you have an active Lich.  Oh, an active Lich I said, I don't have one of those, I don't even know what the hell that is.  Turns out, I do have one of those!  So, for a weapon I don't want or care about I would need to learn the Lich system, do all of the weird parazon stuff, do a bunch of railjack stuff just to "get rid of" my lich so I can get a sister.  Cool.  I think I will just uninstall instead lol.

[(XBOX)Architect Prime]

Uhhh the whole idea of the Nemesis is that they are a thorn in your side. It's bad enough that they can be traded, but I'm gonna have to hold the line at - they need to at least stick to you until you get rid of them. 

[Vindicus8235]

I literally didn't even know what I was engaging with when I acquired the lich.  What a silly comment.

[Foeglas]

Why do larvlings and candidates even spawn in regular starchart in the first place? Why aren't they simply objectives in bounties with progression locks and a New-War-style warning? The game tries so hard to warn players about copying configs to an empty loadout. In contrast, the weapon preview just looks like candy to new players I've talked to; they simply assume it's a mission reward!

[Packetdancer]

I am firmly of the opinion that anything which significantly changes your gameplay experience should be a thing you can abort; seeing threads of people having problems with the New War, I've come to think it should absolutely have an "abort and start fresh again later" option, especially since it locks you out of everything else in the game.

I'm not entirely sure if I personally agree that a lich or sister changes the experience that much, I admit. But if people feel like it does to them, I am certainly willing to say it should qualify.

In the meantime, though, at least people can help with a lich or sister. There are those of us who'll blitz a nemesis run from spawn to "got a weapon" in an hour and a half or whatever and who are certainly capable of helping drag someone through a lich; many of us even have extra requiem mods to make the experience a little less painful, and I've certainly handed over the appropriate mods for someone to stab their lich before. (And if the person is on another platform... we can't trade them the mods we have, but we can supply the appropriate relics and run through a requiem fissure with them.)

Asking on the Recruitment channel in game, or finding someone here on the forums or Reddit and arranging a time, can probably at least help get the lich/sister out of your hair if stuck.

[Corvid]

23 hours ago, (XBOX)Architect Prime said:

until you get rid of them

You do realise that cancelling a lich would qualify as "getting rid of them", right?

I recently stabbed a larvling while my focus was briefly on something else. That momentary lapse in attention (less than 5 seconds) lead to me having to go through a tedious multi-mission process to get rid of the lich.

I frankly don't care that you think they're supposed to be a persistent nemesis, the inability to tell the game "I no longer wish to engage with this system" after starting it is an annoyance that the game would be better off without.

Edited October 25, 2023 by Corvid

[(XBOX)Hellsteeth30]

I'm saying yay in favour of an off switch.

Partly because if you stuff up the mod sequence you end up with the tedium of having to solo the rest of the grind yourself.

New players aren't going to be able to handle a level 4/5 Lich/Sister and they end up having the thing hanging around for ages.

[(XBOX)Architect Prime]

1 hour ago, Corvid said:

You do realise that cancelling a lich would qualify as "getting rid of them", right?

What I mean is that you should be required to go through the proccess. A good Nemesis system is hard on the player, not watered down. 

[Packetdancer]

4 minutes ago, (XBOX)Architect Prime said:

What I mean is that you should be required to go through the proccess. A good Nemesis system is hard on the player, not watered down. 

I think you should be required to go through the process for the rewards, but I don't think you should be required to go through the process just because you started it. There's a fairly key difference between the two; backing out/aborting is forfeiting the reward unless you try again later. It's like loading an earlier save in a single-player game.

Because in the end, this game is for fun; if someone starts a lich because they see a shiny "stab for weapon" prompt and don't know what they're getting into, I don't think they should be forced to focus on a grind they may not have intended just to clear the lich out of the system. It's the same reason I'm in favor of an "abort quest" button in the New War; I'm totally fine with folks needing to clear that to get to the content beyond it, but I think it's a mistake to let someone start the quest and then never let them abort (especially since it also locks them out of the rest of the game).

Imagine if, for instance, when you started a round of the Steel Circuit in Duviri, you were now required to clear all ten weekly tiers before it would let you back out to do other things. Or if it let you back out but put intrusive reminders all over your normal gameplay until you cleared all ten tiers in a given week, so you had Dominus Thrax popping up every time you opened the star chart and insisting that the Steel Circuit was there... waiting... you coward, Drifter, running away from what you started... etc.

I do not think that would have been a popular design choice.

[L3512]

4 hours ago, (XBOX)Architect Prime said:

What I mean is that you should be required to go through the proccess. A good Nemesis system is hard on the player, not watered down. 

Well there's the problem, WF has never had a good nemesis system. It was pitched as a system that would take months and clan activity to clear (holy #*!% no), was implemented as a tediously long grind with RNG stacked on RNG stacked on RNG and has now evolved into short but still tedious process that can be knocked out in an hour with enough RNG to waste people's time.

RNG is the cheapest form of player engagement and while good weapons should have some sort of grind to attain, the Nemesis system is super dull and has not impact game wise unless you care about the paltry amounts of resources that get stolen.

[Vindicus8235]

13 hours ago, (XBOX)Architect Prime said:

What I mean is that you should be required to go through the proccess. A good Nemesis system is hard on the player, not watered down. 

This is just such a goofy take.  Why should you be required to go through the process when you didn't even know you were engaging with the system in the first place?  Imagine next patch they put in a new system that the first mission you did post-patch you were required to repeat it 500 times before you could do any other mission or activity, UNLESS you first went to Teshin, stood in front of him and did /say de gustibus non est disputandum.  Then and only then you were free to continue playing as normal.  None of this was documented or warned about upon logging in.  I'm assuming you'd find this to be a great addition to the game?

[Aruquae]

The fact that they spawn in level 20 (or is it 22?) grineer tilesets is absurd

Forget MR requirement, they should only be available in a Kuva Fortress, or at least level 50 and above. 
 

[Alguien]

1 hour ago, (NSW)Malikili said:

The fact that they spawn in level 20 (or is it 22?) grineer tilesets is absurd

Not really, considering nowadays you have to confirm you want to spawn a lich.
The absurd part is that the whole system is poorly or not explained at all to players.
DE just needs to add a quest with a low-level lich to explain the mechanics to new players, how are liches made, how to gain requiem mods, how to gain murmur and how to kill them.

[Packetdancer]

6 hours ago, (NSW)Malikili said:

The fact that they spawn in level 20 (or is it 22?) grineer tilesets is absurd

Forget MR requirement, they should only be available in a Kuva Fortress, or at least level 50 and above.

This, I'm going to disagree with. I've seen folks with less MR (and thus, y'know, less gear options) struggle in the Kuva Fortress. Obtaining a Kuva weapon can actually be a pretty strong option for letting them start feeling like they can make a dent in enemies there. So I think making the weapon require them to do the place they might want the weapon to be able to do in the first place would be a frustrating cyclical dependency.

(Yes, of course Kuva weapons aren't the only thing that can help a Tenno with a less-fleshed-out arsenal tackle higher-end content, but it's sure a really solid option. Other things may require a higher mastery rank, or heavily-RNG-based grinds, etc.)

I agree with Alguien; the issue isn't where you can spawn the liches, rather that for someone encountering the system for the first time, they have no idea what spawning a lich even really means.

[(XBOX)Architect Prime]

9 hours ago, Vindicus8235 said:

This is just such a goofy take. 

Unless you're really bad at doing liches or underleveled, it should only take you about an hour to complete. There is plenty of warning that you're getting into something too, you don't have to start it lmao. And the damning thing in my eyes is that liches just steal some trivial resources 99% of the time. They don't really stop you from doing anything. 

I'll admit that liches with AOE weapons can one (two) shot you if you let them get too strong, so make sure to solve the puzzle efficiently. 

Edited October 26, 2023 by (XBOX)Architect Prime

[(NSW)jhj82]

I use mine as a bank. Every 3-4 months i'll beat it and get a good dopamine hit of rewards

[(XBOX)Player244024418]

I think the lich is in control of this decision. 

Can you abandon a stalker?

[(XBOX)Player244024418]

Five pages of comments when there's literally nothing wrong with the lich system aside from perhaps instructions. Lich strength is fine. Players just need to be less whiney.

I mean, if they nerfed liches they would be painfully easy 

Complaining about having one, well, don't stab your summoned thrall or just take an hour or so to defeat it and move on. 

I would only wish for one change, keep spawns coming even after extraction is ready. Why would the lich stop sending thralls? I want to run 20m survival and have one parazon mod unveiled. 

[DogsConkers]

I agree with the OP let people abandon a Lich if they want don't punish them for hours because they made a simple mistake.

[(XBOX)Architect Prime]

My wish would be to have liches be non-trade and take like a week to beat, but done in a more dynamic and less grindy way. 

[(XBOX)Architect Prime]

On 2023-10-25 at 3:42 PM, Packetdancer said:

I think you should be required to go through the process for the rewards, but I don't think you should be required to go through the process just because you started it.

Maybe we can meet in the middle and say that there should be a notification that warns the player what they're getting into, same as before the NEw War quest. 

[Packetdancer]

15 hours ago, (NSW)jhj82 said:

I use mine as a bank. Every 3-4 months i'll beat it and get a good dopamine hit of rewards

I had a lich I had spawned to help a friend get one, but then they took a break and I just had a lich, figured... eh, it's on Earth, no big deal, I'll get to it later when my friend picks up the game again; the random bits of endo and mods it returns will be funny after however long, right?

Then the lich stole a tauforged archon shard, so... *cocks shotgun*

Edited October 27, 2023 by Packetdancer

[Hexerin]

9 hours ago, (XBOX)Architect Prime said:

Maybe we can meet in the middle and say that there should be a notification that warns the player what they're getting into, same as before the NEw War quest. 

There's no way to implement such a notification that wouldn't be extremely invasive to normal gameplay. Terrible, non-workable solution for this.

Especially when simply adding a "forfeit lich" button on the lich screen would resolve literally everything in one simple change.

F--- your elitism with "you have to deal with it since you started it".

[Dante_Crux]

On 2023-10-27 at 1:25 AM, DogsConkers said:

I agree with the OP let people abandon a Lich if they want don't punish them for hours because they made a simple mistake.

Definitely need an abandon option, I spent an hour grinding through it only for the final kill move tells me that he fled to veil proxima. I do not do railjack missions, as I don't like the micromanaging repair tool bs aspect.

I just want to fight and not roleplay as a space pirate. So my lich is beyond my reach with a cool weapon because I do not care to grind content I do not enjoy. Having an option at this point, that shows the rewards you'll be forfeiting should you abandon would be nice as now my nav screen will forever have a damned kuva lich with annoying voice lines.