Nyx needs a buff.

[(PSN)CptCombustanut]

5 hours ago, (XBOX)GearsMatrix301 said:

No there isn’t.

Just in the utility frame department, Inaros is just worse at turning enemies against eachother and frost is worse at keeping objectives like excavators and defensive targets up. As an offensive frame, she scales with enemies because her abilities turn enemies scaling damage against them. 
 

your argument boils down to “nuh uh” so there’s probably no reason for me to have actually typed that last bit out cause if you respond it’ll probably just be another iteration of “no she’s bad” and no real reason why besides you just think so

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

Not buffs, style and theme changed, she went from psychic mind controller to an unkillable monster who can remove the defenses of everyone.

Physics are usually glass cannons, possessing no direct offensive abilities, but work in manipulating enemy behavior and turn them against each other.

 

she does that, but it's overshadowed by her 2 and 4. 

[SupernovaSymphony]

I jsut hate how you WILL lose your entire pool of energy before you reach any semi-reasonable levels of damage

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

5 hours ago, (PSN)CptCombustanut said:

Just in the utility frame department, Inaros is just worse at turning enemies against eachother and frost is worse at keeping objectives like excavators and defensive targets up. As an offensive frame, she scales with enemies because her abilities turn enemies scaling damage against them. 
 

your argument boils down to “nuh uh” so there’s probably no reason for me to have actually typed that last bit out cause if you respond it’ll probably just be another iteration of “no she’s bad” and no real reason why besides you just think so

Inaros has a harder CC than Nyx. Inaros can tank without limiting his movement. He can heal his team mates, and he can immobilize an enemy just like Nyx can. But he doesn’t turn them into a useless minion that can’t be killed (well he does but after they’ve died so it doesn’t really matter).

[(PSN)CptCombustanut]

10 minutes ago, (XBOX)GearsMatrix301 said:

Inaros has a harder CC than Nyx. Inaros can tank without limiting his movement. He can heal his team mates, and he can immobilize an enemy just like Nyx can. But he doesn’t turn them into a useless minion that can’t be killed (well he does but after they’ve died so it doesn’t really matter).

Yeah they do different stuff, it’s kind of half of my original point. Inaros doesn’t have 100% armor strip, a way to prevent damage to teammates using chaos, which is a mass enemy convert, a quicker single target convert in mind control, defense missions still progress, and even if they don’t anymore (would’ve been a weird change to make) you can still just end the ability and kill it in a single press of a button since it stores the damage you deal to it until the ability ends. Doesn’t have a quick invuln ability that makes a great panic button in case of emergencies.

They do different stuff. Nyx excels in coordinated play. Sure it’s easier to just run in and never die on revenant. But Nyxs gameplay loop is hardly the worst. I think genuinely Warframe has a lot of good variance that never feels like any frame falls too far behind the curve, which was my original point before you started just trying to argue that’s she’s bad.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

27 minutes ago, (PSN)CptCombustanut said:

Yeah they do different stuff, it’s kind of half of my original point. Inaros doesn’t have 100% armor strip, a way to prevent damage to teammates using chaos, which is a mass enemy convert, a quicker single target convert in mind control, defense missions still progress, and even if they don’t anymore (would’ve been a weird change to make) you can still just end the ability and kill it in a single press of a button since it stores the damage you deal to it until the ability ends. Doesn’t have a quick invuln ability that makes a great panic button in case of emergencies.

They do different stuff. Nyx excels in coordinated play. Sure it’s easier to just run in and never die on revenant. But Nyxs gameplay loop is hardly the worst. I think genuinely Warframe has a lot of good variance that never feels like any frame falls too far behind the curve, which was my original point before you started just trying to argue that’s she’s bad.

Chaos doesn’t convert enemies. It just makes them hostile towards everything. You’re still liable to be killed by them. Pocket sand disables their ability to attack you and their movement. On top of opening them up to finishers (FYI finishers ignore armor).

You’re trying to argue that they do different things. When they do a lot of similar stuff, and Inaros is doing it better as well as well as having more useful things for the player.

Variety is not an excuse for frames to be bad. Just because a frame has different abilities from other frames doesn’t mean those ability are good.

[RichardKam]

11小时前 , (XBOX)GearsMatrix301 说:

No there isn’t.

Nyx 4 and 2 mean that she was invulnerable and can strip armor and shield instantly. 

Before armor strip rework and incarnon weapon, she was one of the safest and best option against lvl 5 Lich and Sister. So at least in that arena, she is not the worst. Even today, she is low MR players best out of jail card if they somehow summoned a Lich.

Your turn to support your statement, if there is any.

11小时前 , (XBOX)GearsMatrix301 说:

No there isn’t.

Nyx 4 and 2 mean that she was invulnerable and can strip armor and shield instantly. 

Before armor strip rework and incarnon weapon, she was one of the safest and best option against lvl 5 Lich and Sister. So at least in that arena, she is not the worst. Even today, she is low MR players best out of jail card if they somehow summoned a Lich.

Your turn to support your statement, if there is any.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

Just now, RichardKam said:

Nyx 4 and 2 mean that she was invulnerable and can strip armor and shield instantly. 

Before armor strip rework and incarnon weapon, she was one of the safest and best option against lvl 5 Lich and Sister. So at least in that arena, she is not the worst. Even today, she is low MR players best out of jail card if they somehow summoned a Lich.

Your turn to support your statement, if there is any.

Liches aren’t the entire game. Just because a frame has a niche use as a band aid for DE mishandling Liches does not mean that frame is actually good.

And I’ve had zero issues in the past tackling Liches with other frames. So Nyx isn’t an absolute necessity to have for fighting Liches.

[RichardKam]

4分钟前 , (XBOX)GearsMatrix301 说:

Chaos doesn’t convert enemies. It just makes them hostile towards everything. You’re still liable to be killed by them. Pocket sand disables their ability to attack you and their movement. On top of opening them up to finishers (FYI finishers ignore armor).

You’re trying to argue that they do different things. When they do a lot of similar stuff, and Inaros is doing it better as well as well as having more useful things for the player.

Variety is not an excuse for frames to be bad. Just because a frame has different abilities from other frames doesn’t mean those ability are good.

This must be the first time I see someone saying pocket sand is better than chaos, implying that pocket sand can cover the entire interception tileset for more than 10 seconds.

This forum never failed to entertain me.

[(PSN)CptCombustanut]

13 minutes ago, (XBOX)GearsMatrix301 said:

Chaos doesn’t convert enemies. It just makes them hostile towards everything. You’re still liable to be killed by them. Pocket sand disables their ability to attack you and their movement. On top of opening them up to finishers (FYI finishers ignore armor).

You’re trying to argue that they do different things. When they do a lot of similar stuff, and Inaros is doing it better as well as well as having more useful things for the player.

Variety is not an excuse for frames to be bad. Just because a frame has different abilities from other frames doesn’t mean those ability are good.

No it’s not a convert but that’s basically what it does if you play smart and run so much range the enemies kill themselves before you even see them. Sure finishers ignore armor, but you could also just not take the time to do the animation and let enemies do the heavy lifting. Also did you just compare pocket sand to chaos? The tiny burst stun vs the tile set affecting pseudo conversion? 

Yes they do similar stuff, but they do mostly different stuff. Inaros takes time to  cast the ability run over to an enemy and do an animation to each one, meanwhile Nyx is three rooms over and for all those enemies care doesn’t really exist and is already dealing with the big eximus whose armor is gone and drops dead before inaros even finishes a second target. 
 

Your only argument for her being bad genuinely seems to boil down to the fact that you can’t just run at a horde of enemies and survive without using abilities. Which, I mean, neither can top tier picks like Mesa.

[(PSN)CptCombustanut]

16 minutes ago, RichardKam said:

This must be the first time I see someone saying pocket sand is better than chaos, implying that pocket sand can cover the entire interception tileset for more than 10 seconds.

This forum never failed to entertain me.

It’s for sure one of the wildest takes I’ve seen. I’ve seen people rag on Nyx, but never seen them trash chaos so hard.

[RichardKam]

13小时前 , (NSW)AegisFifi 说:

At least, this point is very important : even though I have 5 Crimson Archon shards on my Nyx (only one of them is Tauforged😢), I didn't want to improve power strength, but duration as it fits better the other builds. I've solved the negative power strength with arcanes, but it's not the best and I wish I could make a better use of an arcane slot than just trying to compensate the lack of basic stacking mechanics on Nyx Psychic Bolts.

There is also another point I'd like to bring to this discussion : one could say that Nyx Psychic Bolts are different because they remove all defenses, not only armor, but Styanax' 2nd stacks and is permanent (for the half energy cost). Xaku's Defense Strip mechanics are also time and range limited, but at least it stacks.

Mandatory Mods, Arcanes and Shards, just to compensate the lack of basic mechanics, is not something that will encourage Modding diversity.

And I love Nyx, but I confess she has some problems.

You see. Any frame has their own problem. That is the point of the game. It let you choose your frames and builds for the job.

What I found incomprehensible was that this game is so complex and has so many game modes that requires (or can be done by) different set up and approaches. And yet people keep forcing the "trash vs not trash" false dilemma when it comes to frame discussion.

If I judge frames solely based on their efficiency of doing Spy, or void flood, then 90% of them are trash. But I won't do that becuase that is silly.

A frame should be judged comprehensibly in multidimensions instead of microscoping one or two abilities and say "oh someone is doing better than you so yours is crap". Nyx provides armor strip and CC and invulnerability, which is already a very comprehensive package in dealing with 90% of all game contents,  and she requires a very low entry barrier to be useful. She is not the best in all arena, no one does, not even Xaku, but in the current state, I just cannot see the reason why she is "bad" when she gets most of the jobs done.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

46 minutes ago, (PSN)CptCombustanut said:

No it’s not a convert but that’s basically what it does if you play smart and run so much range the enemies kill themselves before you even see them. Sure finishers ignore armor, but you could also just not take the time to do the animation and let enemies do the heavy lifting. Also did you just compare pocket sand to chaos? The tiny burst stun vs the tile set affecting pseudo conversion? 

Yes they do similar stuff, but they do mostly different stuff. Inaros takes time to  cast the ability run over to an enemy and do an animation to each one, meanwhile Nyx is three rooms over and for all those enemies care doesn’t really exist and is already dealing with the big eximus whose armor is gone and drops dead before inaros even finishes a second target. 
 

Your only argument for her being bad genuinely seems to boil down to the fact that you can’t just run at a horde of enemies and survive without using abilities. Which, I mean, neither can top tier picks like Mesa.

I’m defending Inaros from your accusation that he’s worse than Nyx. My gauge for what makes a Warframe good or bad goes far deeper than just “ face tank and not use abilities”.

[(XBOX)Lord ChibiVR]

18 minutes ago, (XBOX)GearsMatrix301 said:

I’m defending Inaros from your accusation that he’s worse than Nyx. My gauge for what makes a Warframe good or bad goes far deeper than just “ face tank and not use abilities”.

Tbh Inaros isn't bad, it's just Grendel, Nidus, Nezha, and Revenant do the same thing but better.

Edited June 23, 2023 by (XBOX)Upl0rdYT

[(PSN)CptCombustanut]

20 minutes ago, (XBOX)GearsMatrix301 said:

I’m defending Inaros from your accusation that he’s worse than Nyx. My gauge for what makes a Warframe good or bad goes far deeper than just “ face tank and not use abilities”.

My accusation was that he’s worse than Nyx at certain things. Turning a whole army of enemies against themselves for example. That’s a really nice thing to be able to do. Clearly Inaros excels at stuff that Nyx doesn’t. It’s been my whole point and it’s never seem to stick with you.

[Slayer-.]

5 hours ago, SupernovaSymphony said:

I jsut hate how you WILL lose your entire pool of energy before you reach any semi-reasonable levels of damage

Say what, are you modding just to die?

I use Nyx in Steel Path, she goes alright, and in the circuit, she's a god.

[(PSN)Joylesstuna]

This thread depresses me as a Nyx main because I thought people disliked her because she's boring (which I can't argue) but people actually think she's bad? Sure shes due for some tweaks but she's extremely solid.

Edited June 23, 2023 by (PSN)Joylesstuna

[AegidiusF]

Il y a 6 heures, RichardKam a dit :

You see. Any frame has their own problem. That is the point of the game. It let you choose your frames and builds for the job.

What I found incomprehensible was that this game is so complex and has so many game modes that requires (or can be done by) different set up and approaches. And yet people keep forcing the "trash vs not trash" false dilemma when it comes to frame discussion.

If I judge frames solely based on their efficiency of doing Spy, or void flood, then 90% of them are trash. But I won't do that becuase that is silly.

A frame should be judged comprehensibly in multidimensions instead of microscoping one or two abilities and say "oh someone is doing better than you so yours is crap". Nyx provides armor strip and CC and invulnerability, which is already a very comprehensive package in dealing with 90% of all game contents,  and she requires a very low entry barrier to be useful. She is not the best in all arena, no one does, not even Xaku, but in the current state, I just cannot see the reason why she is "bad" when she gets most of the jobs done.

I totally agree with you and if I let you think, at any of my previous posts, that I was agreeing with that false dilemma about "trash vs not trash" (as you perfectly says), I apologize. I do not think like that. That's why, by the way, Nyx is my third most played warframe.

When I compared Psychic Bolts to Styanax' Tharros Strike, my goal was to compare the mechanics and the energy cost (the same way I did with Banshee at another thread - see below) and to ask then for some improvements to make the ability fit better the current state of development of the game (perhaps making the effect of psychic bolts permanent).

The way the energy drain works for her 4th is also a point I think should be looked at : currently, on high levels, it works like Quick Thinking : one hit taken and the energy bar is empty. I think its formula should be updated.

I agree with you : Nyx is not bad at all. She is incredibly powerful and she can deal with almost any game content. But there are some points in her abilities that need an update (not a rework).

 

Edited June 23, 2023 by (NSW)AegisFifi

[stormy505]

On 2023-06-22 at 1:24 AM, RichardKam said:

Why armor strip needs to be stacked or has endless duration, when you only need 130 str for complete strip and can kill those wet toilet paper in Planck's time? Psychic bolt was clean and simple, unlike those cumbersome fancy stuff like fire blast or terrify or pillage.

God I dunno why I even have to explain this.

Because at levels where armor strip actually matters. It's very rare that you'll only be shooting six enemies at a time. Realistically it's minimum 10, closer to 25. 

And in content where spawns are low enough where you are killing enemies in groups of 5 or below where it would actually be a competitive option, armor strips are pointless cause everything dies incredibly fast anyways.

[stormy505]

16 hours ago, (PSN)CptCombustanut said:

Just in the utility frame department, Inaros is just worse at turning enemies against eachother

I honestly can't tell if this is satirical or not. Like, it's correct, but also with how enemies struggle to kill other enemies once armor starts scaling up. Is this even a desirable trait? 

Inaros isn't exactly amazing but he has his uses. He's especially good for new players because he can tackle arbies/Orbs/archons/early sp with a VERY cheap setup. Players with a ton of investment aren't likely to use him but being a newbie friendly frame gives him an actual use.

Like, there's a couple activities where, dependant on player progression, inaros is actually the best option to complete the task and I can recommend him to that player. I can't think of a situation where nyx has a niche carved out for her.

[(PSN)CptCombustanut]

9 hours ago, stormy505 said:

I honestly can't tell if this is satirical or not. Like, it's correct, but also with how enemies struggle to kill other enemies once armor starts scaling up. Is this even a desirable trait? 

Inaros isn't exactly amazing but he has his uses. He's especially good for new players because he can tackle arbies/Orbs/archons/early sp with a VERY cheap setup. Players with a ton of investment aren't likely to use him but being a newbie friendly frame gives him an actual use.

Like, there's a couple activities where, dependant on player progression, inaros is actually the best option to complete the task and I can recommend him to that player. I can't think of a situation where nyx has a niche carved out for her.

Mind control + armor strip + chaos

mind control to make sure there’s one less target for your bolts to apply to, use bolts to strip armor of a couple chaos targets and let them kill eachother while you use your mega space guns and swords to kill the non armor stripped enemies, move on, rinse repeat. 
 

additionally, the damage does scale, but it becomes a lot more valuable as a defensive tool just keeping the heat off of you and your team.
 

modes where killing isn’t the objective, like interception, disruption (at the very least you only have to kill 4 things per round), and the occasional sortie rescue and sabotage where you just need to keep the heat off targets is generally where people say Nyx is a good pick. CC is always good when you need enemies to not do one thing specifically