Concept Idea: Different Archon shard combination bonus

[Sweg178]

The concept is simple. Add a combination bonus of different archon shard/ same archon shards. This will add another layer of dynamic gameplay.

Alternatively introduce another set of minor stones that will give such bonus stats. 

Example: 5 crimson shard set gives + 50 damage to all weapons. / 5 amber shard set gives + firerate / 3 crimsonshard + amber shard gives 30 damage + fire rate. etc etc.

 

 

Ps: BDO lightstone rip off

[Pakaku]

If this was a mod set, sure, but I don’t think it really makes much sense for a system involving "permanent" upgrades (penalises you for taking shards out)

[Zakkhar]

This is not Diablo/PoE/Grim Dawn.

[Sweg178]

On 2023-07-25 at 2:34 AM, Zakkhar said:

This is not Diablo/PoE/Grim Dawn.

so you don't have problem with archon shards but you have problems with them giving extra bonus. . .

 

 

[Zakkhar]

1 hour ago, Sweg178 said:

you have problems with them giving extra bonus

Giving, no. I have a problem with what such mechanics produces. And what it produces is another layer of rules that will result in reduced build diversity.

Runewords | Diablo 2 Wiki (fextralife.com)

Archon shards idea was to increase the build diversity - add 10% str that makes your armor strip 100% instead of 97, add some starting energy that allows you to start running your ability combo without need to run Preparation, Pizza or search for Orbs, add crit damage to Pseudo-Exalts that have none. 

Edited July 27, 2023 by Zakkhar

[Sweg178]

41 minutes ago, Zakkhar said:

what it produces is another layer of rules that will result in reduced build diversity.

just making sure i'm understanding you correctly. You think adding a set bonus will reduce build diversity??  in any case it will increase the diversity. I don't understand your logic. 

If you just want to disagree with someone atleast come up with a solid reasoning. 

 

 

 

 

[Zakkhar]

4 hours ago, Sweg178 said:

just making sure i'm understanding you correctly. You think adding a set bonus will reduce build diversity??  in any case it will increase the diversity. I don't understand your logic. 

If you just want to disagree with someone atleast come up with a solid reasoning. 

Just because you do not get it doesnt not mean it is not solid. Player builds tend to orbit around META/FOTM. Soon some special combinations will become META/FOTM, and that will completely kill any other combinations. 

Your example kinda explains it all. Red shards are the best for most builds so using 5 red shards already is pretty common, but there is nothing wrong in using 4 reds and 1 yellow/blue for convenience. If you add a bonus to 5, pretty much 99% of players that have used 4 red and 1 blue/yellow will change to 5 reds.

[emmyemi]

Idea: nerf the bonus amount, and make it require 2–3 shards instead of 5. That way a player is still limited to 1 or 2 "set bonuses" at a time, but there is still room to play around with the remaining shards since you don't need to match all 5.

At the core I think your idea is nice, but it definitely lacks flexibility. Making the bonus require fewer shards ensures that players don't feel trapped in the same builds, encouraging some thought in which shard types they choose to match without restricting build options.

[Birdframe_Prime]

4 hours ago, Sweg178 said:

just making sure i'm understanding you correctly. You think adding a set bonus will reduce build diversity??

I'm going to have to agree with Zakkhar here.

Once you introduce these combos it then introduces a 'meta' set of combos. Where you have players getting a certain combination just to produce a specific bonus effect, rather than because of what it does on its own.

Currently with just minor, individual effects, you have a general choice of being able to add stats that are beneficial without wasting mod slots.

I was able to ditch a mod on my Zephyr build because getting the extra 30% Duration meant I didn't need Augur Message, I was able to drop in an Augment that I wanted, which gives me more utility and mobility.

You wouldn't get that with meta bonuses, because the bonus would be more important than the utility.

[(NSW)Greybones]

Pretty sure that players will just find some META combination and then complain about being forced to use it in a game that doesn’t require it.

Don’t get me wrong, they make their own problems and aren’t worth designing solely around. Just expect the introduction of a thing meant to facilitate build and gameplay variety being treated like it does the opposite 

Edited July 27, 2023 by (NSW)Greybones

[Tsukinoki]

8 hours ago, Sweg178 said:

just making sure i'm understanding you correctly. You think adding a set bonus will reduce build diversity??  in any case it will increase the diversity. I don't understand your logic. 

Here's the current situation:
-You can use any shards in any combination without having to worry about missing out on "set bonuses"

 

And what do you suggest?
-You are locked into using a set number of shards of a given color for a "set bonus"

 

Your idea will make it less viable to just run any shards you want.
You run 2 yellows and 2 blue and 1 red?  You don't get any "set bonus" so better drop off two of those colors....
You run 4 reds and a yellow? Better get rid of that yellow so that you can get the benefit of 5 reds.
The blue "set bonus" sucks and isn't good on any frame?  Well now you're being punished by running blues...drop that color since the others provide their own shard bonuses and a usable "set bonus" ontop of that.

 

Your idea hurts build diversity by pigeonholing you into not splashing multiple colors of shards onto a frame as you are disabling/significantly weakening the "set bonuses" that you could otherwise be getting.
This will heavily disincentivize actually using the colors you want to make the frame more comfortable.

Alternatively if you have a bonus for "3 red, 1 yellow, 1 blue" that is powerful then you have to slot in 3 red, 1 yellow and 1 blue even if one or more of those colors isn't useful to your frame build because the "set bonus" is good for your frame build....this just "forces" you to use colors that aren't useful or otherwise helpful and are essentially "dead" slots because the set bonus is just that good....instead of an extra yellow shard or blue shard that makes your build feel better you now can't do that without putting yourself at a mechanical disadvantage.

 

The issue is that while players are currently going "I'm going to use these shards for this reason....." your idea turns that into "I would use these shards...but the "set bonus" for shard color Y is just so good I would be stupid to not use it instead....."

Edited July 27, 2023 by Tsukinoki