Any chance we could make rolling rivens faster?

[Learicorn]

I know a lot of people like the gambling aspect of opening lootboxes or similar stuff one by one but personally I hate it and think it's a waste of time. I roll my rivens from time to time because there's nothing else to do with all this kuva and having to do it roll by roll makes me demotivated to even do it in the first place, so my kuva ends up piling up... This is exactly the situation I had in Overwatch 1 where I had 100+ lootboxes stored and was too lazy to open them lol

Anyways, my idea is:
A "roll all" button, which converts all your kuva into as many rolls as possible, and will lead you to a screen full of those mod cards showing the new possibilities (with scrolling if there's too many). You can either click one of them and press confirm to choose your new stats or press another button to keep your current stats.

Is this technically feasible or am I being too dreamy?

Here's a Cookie Run Kingdom treasure pull for reference (imagine replacing those little icons with mod cards)

https://imgur.com/a/qCzvDUA

EDIT: before someone says it, yes I know a lot of Kuva would end up being wasted if the person gets a good roll in the midst of all of them but personally I don't mind, I just want a way to use as much as possible without taking too long

Edited July 29, 2023 by Learicorn

[Voltage]

Rolling in bulk makes sense for games where all the items are unique and duplicates are wasted/converted. For Rivens, you're rerolling the same item, so you don't know which roll is actually the best one. Allowing players to roll 100x in one go would just result in more support tickets than its worth.

[(PSN)haphazardlynamed]

13 minutes ago, Voltage said:

you don't know which roll is actually the best one

yes you do

its MS, CC, CD, -zoom or MS, CD, tox/cold, -zoom

 

I know Exactly what stats I want for a particular build, and will often sit there clicking roll/confirm 100 times over till I get it (I'll stockpile a few million Kuva beforehand).

Being able to reduce the number of button presses would be great.

I like OP's proposal, just let me Dump X Kuva, have it display a list of every single roll that was produced and let me pick from it.

-the tradeoff being, that even if the roll showed up halfway thru, I don't get a Kuva refund on the subsequent unused rolls.

Fair trade for my convenience.

 

(yes, this is potentially predatory vs addiction susceptible players; high speed gratification at vastly increased risk of losses)

 

[Learicorn]

24 minutes ago, Voltage said:

Rolling in bulk makes sense for games where all the items are unique and duplicates are wasted/converted. For Rivens, you're rerolling the same item, so you don't know which roll is actually the best one. Allowing players to roll 100x in one go would just result in more support tickets than its worth.

I didn't think of the user error possibility... Fair I guess

2 minutes ago, (PSN)haphazardlynamed said:

yes you do

its MS, CC, CD, -zoom or MS, CD, tox/cold, -zoom

 

I know Exactly what stats I want for a particular build, and will often sit there clicking roll/confirm 100 times over till I get it (I'll stockpile a few million Kuva beforehand).

Being able to reduce the number of button presses would be great.

I like OP's proposal, just let me Dump X Kuva, have it display a list of every single roll that was produced and let me pick from it.

-the tradeoff being, that even if the roll showed up halfway thru, I don't get a Kuva refund on the subsequent unused rolls.

Fair trade for my convenience.

 

(yes, this is potentially predatory vs addiction susceptible players; high speed gratification at vastly increased risk of losses)

 

I don't think Kuva is predatory because you can't buy it nor trade for it, only earn it through ingame grind. They made it this way exactly to avoid the exploitation of gambling addicts

Also... a few million?? Are you ok man? 😭

Edited July 29, 2023 by Learicorn

[(PSN)haphazardlynamed]

2 minutes ago, Learicorn said:

I don't think Kuva is predatory because you can't buy it nor trade for it, only earn it through ingame grind. They made it this way exactly to avoid the exploitation of gambling addicts

those few million Kuva that I burn came at the cost of Buying Resource Boosters, its indirect, but I did basically spend platinum to get it.

any rate, I don't have a problem with it being predatory; I'm all for it, no need to defend that as a negative, its fine.

[(PSN)haphazardlynamed]

13 minutes ago, Learicorn said:

Also... a few million?? Are you ok man? 😭

It's fine

currently sitting on 3 million Kuva, In preparation to roll for the New Incarnon Weapons (week 7 group) coming out tomorrow.

 

I can do things this way rolling myself, or pay 5k+ Plat to buy Grolls off traders.

My way avoid the Toxicity of having to deal with those people. -well worth it.

[taiiat]

i don't think a giant Grid is necessary, just like, make that ridiculously long Animation... faster. and by faster i mean like, have a Checkbox on the rolling Menu that just skips the Animation entirely if you enable it. you can cycle as fast as you can Click.

[Voltage]

1 hour ago, (PSN)haphazardlynamed said:

yes you do

its MS, CC, CD, -zoom or MS, CD, tox/cold, -zoom

 

I know Exactly what stats I want for a particular build, and will often sit there clicking roll/confirm 100 times over till I get it (I'll stockpile a few million Kuva beforehand).

Being able to reduce the number of button presses would be great.

I like OP's proposal, just let me Dump X Kuva, have it display a list of every single roll that was produced and let me pick from it.

It's not that clear cut and wording it this way is very unhelpful for other players. Those rolls are what sell for the most Platinum and are what I personally consider the "safer" high tier rolls. I don't even consider -IPS safe to own anymore, as I've lost hundreds of thousands of Platinum various updates where DE adds powercreep or changes existing mechanics. Who knows, next major update DE could come out and fix the way -IPS acts as a pseudo-status weighting mod and doesn't properly affect a weapon in the negative manner it's supposed to.

In terms of performance, there are several factors that come into play. Fire Rate? Is GunCO multiplicative or additive to base damage? Are you using this for bosses (Kuva Hek, Vectis Prime, etc.)? Does it have a gimmick? (-Critical Chance Incarnons). Is this for a faction specific mission (Disruption, Void Cascade, Profit-Taker, etc.)? Is this for a stat-stick? Which ability is it a stat-stick for? Is this for an event? The list goes on. Every weapon has a roll you personally want, but it's not as cookie cutter as you make it out to be. Everyone's chasing different stats, and having too many options to choose from can be more cumbersome than the simple "previous or next" decisions the system currently imposes.

1 hour ago, (PSN)haphazardlynamed said:

-the tradeoff being, that even if the roll showed up halfway thru, I don't get a Kuva refund on the subsequent unused rolls.

Fair trade for my convenience.

 

(yes, this is potentially predatory vs addiction susceptible players; high speed gratification at vastly increased risk of losses)

This is precisely why I would not like such a feature to be added. You've even pointed this out on the bottom. Sure, there is some convenience, and it saves some time, but if you farm several hours worth of Kuva, you can spend 20 minutes rolling. That extra time cost is a fair trade for a system already sliding down one of the steepest slippery slopes Warframe has from having even more predatory mechanics involved that encourages the player to be even more wasteful to save some time that the system is inherently designed to waste from the start.

Edited July 29, 2023 by Voltage

[Voltage]

35 minutes ago, taiiat said:

i don't think a giant Grid is necessary, just like, make that ridiculously long Animation... faster. and by faster i mean like, have a Checkbox on the rolling Menu that just skips the Animation entirely if you enable it. you can cycle as fast as you can Click.

Similar to auto-socketing Ayatan Stars. That's a good suggestion.

[taiiat]

14 minutes ago, Voltage said:

Similar to auto-socketing Ayatan Stars. That's a good suggestion.

similar, but without the Animation. zero Animation. zero time wasting.

[Voltage]

5 minutes ago, taiiat said:

similar, but without the Animation. zero Animation. zero time wasting.

Yeah, I moreso meant similar in that the way the auto-socket feature was added. It was a point of feedback where clicking each socket was just a dumb time-waste.

[(PSN)haphazardlynamed]

33 minutes ago, Voltage said:

It's not that clear cut and wording it this way is very unhelpful for other players.

Of course there's exceptions

but I'm aware of them.

Point being, I don't go into rolling rivens without a clear picture of what stats I want for my own build. -No One should.

So I don't see mass rolling list as a problem of "not being able to tell which one to keep"

 

and again. I don't see a predatory mechanic as a Problem. this is an 18+ game and people can decide for themselves.

If you have a compulsion disorder and Need Big Brother to limit you; well, that's a personal problem. I'm against nanny-ism in-game as much as in RL.

[Voltage]

16 minutes ago, (PSN)haphazardlynamed said:

Of course there's exceptions

but I'm aware of them.

Point being, I don't go into rolling rivens without a clear picture of what stats I want for my own build. -No One should.

So I don't see mass rolling list as a problem of "not being able to tell which one to keep"

Many players (rightfully) graduate their Rivens, with the bare minimum being worth a slot over an existing mod. They then refine them over time to be closer to an initial image. If you're trying to race from no Riven to an exact roll with nothing in between, you're better off farming Platinum and buying it.

I understand why mass rolling appeals to you and OP, but the downsides to the overall system far outweigh the positives of feeding a specific minority of Kuva addict.

16 minutes ago, (PSN)haphazardlynamed said:

and again. I don't see a predatory mechanic as a Problem. this is an 18+ game and people can decide for themselves.

If you have a compulsion disorder and Need Big Brother to limit you; well, that's a personal problem. I'm against nanny-ism in-game as much as in RL.

This is such a bad take. It's not nanny-ism or taking away responsibility from a person to wave the red flag of foul play on systems in place (whether government or industry) that take advantage of the end user. I suggest you check out people like Louis Rossmann on YouTube, or several documentaries and informational articles/outlets regarding the absolute degradation of consumer/citizen protection and consumer/citizen rights globally because of the root problem that this "slightly predatory mechanic in a video game" is attached to. It's not that players wasting their Kuva is the end of the world, it's the whole picture man. Warframe is chalk full of things that already waste your time or put severe pressure on you to participate in something just so you don't miss rewards. We just don't need more of it. I rather see @taiiat's suggestion added that you just select a checkbox and skip all the fancy animations and cycle rolls instantly.

Edited July 29, 2023 by Voltage

[(PSN)haphazardlynamed]

2 hours ago, Voltage said:

Louis Rossmann

big fan of him actually, aligns with a lot of my views.

but I'm also a Libertarian.

 

anyway, if that's how you feel about Warframe, and the innate conflict of F2P and the need to 'encourage' monetization with game mechanics that are potentially at odds with a good gameplay experience. Why even play WF?

Focus your time and money on a 59.99$ game that everything is paid up front, don't preorder, so the company is incentivized to provide the best possible game to be worthy of sales. Say no to games as a live service; that business model is innately anti consumer.

[taiiat]

11 hours ago, (PSN)haphazardlynamed said:

Say no to games as a live service; that business model is innately anti consumer.

it doesn't have to be. i play and perhaps monetize when i'm leaning towards favorable with updates/fixes/whatever - and i don't when i'm not.
_{(well, not more than the bare minimum to keep pace with a few of the longterm chores - full on zero fun maximum efficiency for that stuff if i'm not liking the direction the game is going lately)}

the model can be wishy washy, but i can't be bought. so it's up to the other party to make the model work, otherwise sucks for them.

[Learicorn]

Warframe community try not to turn a simple QOL suggestion into a human rights discussion somehow

Challenge difficulty: Impossible

[Voltage]

55 minutes ago, Learicorn said:

Warframe community try not to turn a simple QOL suggestion into a human rights discussion somehow

Challenge difficulty: Impossible

Eh it's not that, it's that this is a topic about Riven Mods. You can't talk about changing Riven Mods without addressing the elephant in the room regarding why they are as awful as they are, and why they've basically never changed since they were added 7 years ago now.

I do still agree in the sentiment of speeding up the process of rolling, but I don't believe bulk-rolling is the way to go. That's gasoline on the fire in terms of Rivens already disrespecting your time if you try and farm for specific stat rolls.