Vasto Incarnon implementation (could be muuuuuuuuuuuch better)

[TylskiyPryanik]

Digital Extremes, please make some chages in this weapon, for me and all revolver enjoyers. When i saw Vasto Incarnon Genesis in weekly Duviri rotation i immediately choose it because... because i can. Some time later, I wanted to watch a video of how it works, and then I get very excited, because it's fan fire! I god damn love fanning revolvers, especially in pve. I immediately bought Vasto Prime and go grind resources and circuit. When i was done, i got disapointed. It's just not fun for fan fire revolver. It sounds like a pneumatic weapon, and not the most powerful one. And the worst, it's charges with headshots for about ten second, for one and a half seconds of continuous fire. May be it's balanced, incarnon form deals a lot of damage, but, as i said, it's not fun enough, even for fan fire revolver. My suggestion is make weapon charge not from headshots, but hipfire kills (idea of hipfire shooting is already in icarnon form by the way). And also change shooting sound from toyish to loud and strong revolver sound. Actually, i would be insanely happy only from sound change, but incarnon charge change still my wet dream. 

[Vaml77]

its the most disapointing and broken incarnon.

[RLanzinger]

Vasto (Prime) Incarnon Genesis...

The most displeasing, weak and wastefull INCARNON FORM

Abstract : So far I've tried some secondary Incarnon Lex, Despair, Angstrum, Synoid and the I tried the Vasto one; Which turn to be :

• A Good and great single shot Vasto,
• A terrible and almost useless Incarnon
• A bad trade of functionality

Then I tried my antic The Pyrus Project's Event Zylok and even before evolution I, it OUTCLASS from far the Full Evo Vasto Incarnon. So I wrote this.

I/ A Good and great single shot Vasto,

Generally speaking, the evolutions of Vasto clearly improve the Vasto in lot of way, I love the insane magazine and ammo efficiency that completely renew and revive the Vasto (prime) in term of game play. The No Primary Equipped (Increase Damage by +40, Magazine Capacity by +14.) feel bad at first but it is a very good way to improve Secondary over Primary without AoE or Exalted. This make Vasto into a Great Weapon again it never was.

No primary mean no scourge to simplify your life but that's viable...with Mag ^^

II/ A terrible and almost useless Incarnon

At the other side, the Incarnon Form feel like a swindle, it is written 24 ammo but with a burst of 6, it's only 4 BURSTs. I could rague there is a 13,6 multishot but that waste by the very Incarnon shots : burst with insane recoil and cruel IN-accuracy; On top of that the most INSULTING one, NO-ZOOM-AT-ALL so you can't check the Incarnon reticle (is it active or not), you can try to compensate for recoil or IN-accuracy.

The damage seem fine but without punch through or AoE or even any others effects like synoid attract-and-explode, it FEEL BLANK like drinking socket-juice when you were tease to a Blue-Montain coffee. It taste bad.

The only good thing is the free reload when turning back to Vasto, this make the casual mode more usefull.

The very bad part is Rising up magazine make reload less usefull and as the devil is detail IE as Mode switching is equal to the weapon's reload speed so again, then this make the Vasto casual form better and the incarnon more painfull to use.

III/ A bad trade of functionality

Incarnon or non-incarnon ? Do I need to throw this out of my Vasto ? The question in fact bother my because the full burst was the real reason why i still use it but I i do the math I get this :

• Non Incarnon : 6+210 ammo which mean 1+35 bursts
• Incarnon : 3 rounds per charge/headshot up to 24 which mean 8 headshots + Mode switching for 4 Incarnons Bursts.

Does those conditions to have access to burst mode really pay of the trade ? Without any forma on it I can have a 26 magazines with 7,7k damage. The Incarnon have decent global damage but (without Mag) if you can shoot only ONE TARGET, that a waste. Reloading take as much time as Mode switching and this make Incarnon form bad even with a free reloading of the mag.

Having a better Vasto at the cost of the burst mode that's a bad trade,

MY Conclusion

What I can see : Vasto's Spirit has been lost in the process, Vasto ALT is a Quick draw.

• It need to be like Stallone's in Expandable_{Link below} or Mesa's Waltz.
• It is actually not a refurbish old 50's Thompson SMG that shoot half of it's ammo at the sky for nothing....

The Vasto Incarnon is a great gun, a BAD Vasto, a WORST Incarnon and the most deceiving weapon I had since long.

I'm not asking for something specific but I Cernos Prime copy Ivara's exlated why not a short live Mesa's Waltz, that could at least be fun and justifying the no-zoom...
 

I also know there a tons of Vasto Incarnon post but this one title fell closer to my feeling, best post  I found was : 

On 2023-06-30 at 2:58 AM, Stormandreas said:

You're missing the entire purpose of the incarnon.

You seem to think it's for spraying down enemies. No, it is not. It's for burning down a single target, like a demolyst or... an Eidolon. Yes, it works perfectly for those, and EXTREMELY well too.

To Great Master @Stormandreas :  Maybe linked to the fact I've got NoSkill but I can't do that 😪

 

 

Bait click (sorry) : @quxier, @Azamagon 

 

PS : sugar on the TOP fro wikia Known Bugs : Evolution II: Lone Gun does not increase base damage by +66 (Vasto) / +24 (Prime). Only the +40 damage bonus from no primary equipped applies.

 

That what a Quick Draw should be :

 

Edited May 1 by RLanzinger
clarification bis

[Azamagon]

Yup. @RLanzinger that is why i made these suggestions in my Incarnon megathread:

Vasto

Incarnon form - Get ready for some big suggestion-changes!

* Max Incarnon ammo increased to 60 (from 24), and gain 6 Incarnon ammo per charge (up from 3).

* Non-incarnon bodyshots grant 1 Incarnon ammo (Comparison: Headshots grant 6 ammo). (Sidenote: I've suggested for all Incarnon weapons to get a little bit of charge with bodyshots, it's not exclusive to Vasto)

* Recoil is reduced to be slightly lower than the base gun.

* Damage dropoff is entirely removed.

* Status chance buffed from 2,67/6,67% to 20/30% (Vasto/Prime).

* Now has a "Quickshot" feature: The aiming reticle / crosshairs is slightly bigger than usual, and if an enemy is in the crosshairs and within 20 meters range, your shots will autoaim at the enemy when you shoot ("Mesa at home", if you will). If the requirements aren't met, it will simply shoot straight forward as normal.

* Zooming is now available, and will also completely disable the above Quickshot feature while aiming. The zoom level is slightly lower than normal though.

1 - Incarnon form tier - This also passively boosts the weapon's crit chance by 6% (both for the base weapon and its Incarnon form). This is to make the tier 4 choices actually be more of a choice.

2A - Lone Gun - Reworked, and now reads like this:

* Damage is increased by 106/64 (Vasto/Prime) and magsize is increased by 6. However, you lose 8 damage for every enemy that is within 6 meters. You can max lose 40 damage (i.e. minimum bonus is then 66/24 damage (Vasto/Prime).

* Old requirement (not being able to use a primary weapon) is simply a bad restriction, however the magsize bonus is also smaller to compensate for not having ANY restriction on the bonus at all.

2B - Deathtrap Trigger - Stats and interactions tweaked quite heavily, making it look like this:

* Damage is increased by 66/24 (Vasto Prime). On equip from primary or melee, as well as upon transforming into Incarnon form, gain +15% critical chance and +1,2/0,8x critical multiplier for 4 seconds. However, each kill now also extends the buff duration by 1 second.

* Overall, changed to be less powerful, but is easier to trigger and maintain.

3A - Extended Volley - In addition, also grants +20% max Incarnon charge. This raises Incarnon max ammo from 60 to 72.

3C - Awakened Readiness - Buffed to 50% reload/second, and additionally increases bodyshots Incarnon charge up by 50% (Increases the Incarnon charge per bodyshot from 1 to 1,5).

* Current bonus does NOTHING for Incarnon form. These bonuses at least help you to get INTO Incarnon form quicker.

4B - Survivor's Edge - The status chance bonus is no longer split between the 6 shots in Incarnon mode.

4C - Reaper's Plenty - Heavily tweaked:

* On headshot, gain 50% (down from 100%) ammo efficiency and +0,5 base multishot for 6 seconds. Passively (i.e. without any headshot requirements etc), also gain +3 meter punchthrough

* This may seem very powerful, but remember that the 4A and 4B choices are very powerful (high crit or crit/status) and they are entirely passive, while Reaper's Plenty requires headshots to fully benefit.

[quxier]

2 hours ago, RLanzinger said:

The only good thing is the free reload when turning back to Vasto, this make the casual mode more usefull.

Pfft. With "100% ammo efficiency on headshots" it's just waste. And it probably reload with similar time.

28 minutes ago, Azamagon said:

 

* Max Incarnon ammo increased to 60 (from 24), and gain 6 Incarnon ammo per charge (up from 3).

Or let perks affect incarnon: +ammo and 100% efficiency on headshot

33 minutes ago, Azamagon said:

4C - Reaper's Plenty - Heavily tweaked:

* On headshot, gain 50% (down from 100%) ammo efficiency and +0,5 base multishot for 6 seconds. Passively (i.e. without any headshot requirements etc), also gain +3 meter punchthrough

* This may seem very powerful, but remember that the 4A and 4B choices are very powerful (high crit or crit/status) and they are entirely passive, while Reaper's Plenty requires headshots to fully benefit.

IMHO 100% efficiency should stay. However it should affect Incarnon form at 50%-75% efficiency.