Extermination bug again?

[sunderthefirmament]

49 minutes ago, Hexerin said:

That's normal. Most noticeable in any mode that has waves of enemies coming at you (like Survival, and both types of Defense, etc).

No, I mean like you're staring at an empty room, and then like a MOA just appears in front of you.  While you're watching.  Maybe 4 feet away.

 

The only other places that happens are when there's a "lore" reason for it to do so: ESO and void fissures.

[Hexerin]

9 minutes ago, sunderthefirmament said:

No, I mean like you're staring at an empty room, and then like a MOA just appears in front of you.  While you're watching.  Maybe 4 feet away.

 

The only other places that happens are when there's a "lore" reason for it to do so: ESO and void fissures.

Look, I'm not going to argue any further on this. Next time you go do a Survival or Defense, pay attention to the map. Outside of the handful of tiles that are like super enclosed, you can easily see the enemies spawning in on every wave. This also applies to Crossfire Extermination, due to how the mode handles spawning (needs groups to spawn near each other, so they start fighting). While less common (and much harder to catch happen), this also happens in linear missions (Exterminate, Capture, etc).

[sunderthefirmament]

41 minutes ago, Hexerin said:

Look, I'm not going to argue any further on this. Next time you go do a Survival or Defense, pay attention to the map. Outside of the handful of tiles that are like super enclosed, you can easily see the enemies spawning in on every wave. This also applies to Crossfire Extermination, due to how the mode handles spawning (needs groups to spawn near each other, so they start fighting). While less common (and much harder to catch happen), this also happens in linear missions (Exterminate, Capture, etc).

Perhaps, but it's egregious on Lua.  It's not as noticeable if/when it happens elsewhere, probably because it's happening farther away.  Maybe there are distance checks for spawns that don't work properly in the Lua tileset.  I don't know.  I'm definitely not a developer.

 

To get back on topic, moving quickly through exterminates can and do result in not enough enemies spawning, even on PC.  Go for speed next time you run an exterminate, like with a Saryn.  Rush ahead while your spores finish the stragglers.  You'll very likely hit extraction before the game spawns enough enemies, especially if you can read where the enemies will spawn next and not have to backtrack.

 

If that was you in the video you linked, your time-to-kill in the 5-10 seconds I watched was probably closer in line with what DE wants than a bramma Saryn flying through an exterminate sortie, and therefore less likely to result in a lack of spawns.

[Hobie-wan]

20 hours ago, sunderthefirmament said:

To get back on topic, moving quickly through exterminates can and do result in not enough enemies spawning, even on PC.  Go for speed next time you run an exterminate, like with a Saryn.  Rush ahead while your spores finish the stragglers.  You'll very likely hit extraction before the game spawns enough enemies, especially if you can read where the enemies will spawn next and not have to backtrack.

Patient: It hurts when I hit my thumb with a hammer.

Doctor: Stop hitting your thumb with a hammer.

[sunderthefirmament]

22 minutes ago, Hobie-wan said:

Patient: It hurts when I hit my thumb with a hammer.

Doctor: Stop hitting your thumb with a hammer.

I get what you’re going for here, but to complete your analogy the doctor should also be prescribing hammers to the patient. By the thousands. 
 

DE has created a very grindy game. DE keeps drip feeding us power creep.  I don’t think the player is to blame when they take advantage of DE provided power creep and it ends up breaking the game. That’s on the people making the game. 
 

 

Which yeah, means that I think reactant is a stupid system. But now we’re getting far afield. 

[Corvid]

I've had this issue occasionally (one in every 10-ish runs on that tileset, I'd reckon), and I near-exclusively play solo at a relatively slow pace so it's almost certainly not due to me rushing.

Since as far as I can recall the issue only happens on this tileset, and only on this specific extraction tile, I have a hypothesis:

This tile is one where a Condor dropship can spawn to deploy additional enemies (it lands on the other platform that's connected to the extraction point), and the game factors that in when pacing enemy spawns. However, for whatever reason the dropship will sometimes not spawn despite more enemies being needed to complete the mission tally, so the game has to awkwardly spawn more enemies further back in batches of 1 or 2 until the tally is reached.

TLDR: The game plans for a bunch of enemies to spawn via dropship at the end, but the dropship doesn't appear, meaning the game hasn't spawned in enough to complete the mission.

Edited October 7, 2023 by Corvid

[Hexerin]

9 minutes ago, sunderthefirmament said:

DE has created a very grindy game.

Yes, it's literally a genre called "grind game". It's not related to, but it hits similar notes as "incremental games".

The point and fun of the game is the grind itself, not the reward you get at the end of it. The reward is just there as a loose "this is what you're grinding towards" thing, so that the grind has a definitive "win" state (not a requirement for grind games, but proven to have a net positive on the overall design).

What ya'll speedrunners are doing, is literally ignoring the point of the game, and then getting mad because you're encountering issues.

[sunderthefirmament]

51 minutes ago, Hexerin said:

Yes, it's literally a genre called "grind game". It's not related to, but it hits similar notes as "incremental games".

The point and fun of the game is the grind itself, not the reward you get at the end of it. The reward is just there as a loose "this is what you're grinding towards" thing, so that the grind has a definitive "win" state (not a requirement for grind games, but proven to have a net positive on the overall design).

What ya'll speedrunners are doing, is literally ignoring the point of the game, and then getting mad because you're encountering issues.

Players should not have to deliberately hamstring themselves to prevent the game from breaking.  If DE is going to keep giving us power creep to make us want to engage with their content, then they should build their game to be able to support it.

 

I derive most of my enjoyment from collectibles and mobility in this game, along with attempting to build a comfortable setup for each frame and situation.  I don’t derive enjoyment from excessive grind, so I try to minimize it when I can by choosing optimal or at least effective setups. 

[Hexerin]

8 minutes ago, sunderthefirmament said:

Players should not have to deliberately hamstring themselves to prevent the game from breaking.  If DE is going to keep giving us power creep to make us want to engage with their content, then they should build their game to be able to support it.

 

I derive most of my enjoyment from collectibles and mobility in this game, along with attempting to build a comfortable setup for each frame and situation.  I don’t derive enjoyment from excessive grind, so I try to minimize it when I can by choosing optimal or at least effective setups. 

Yes. As someone once put it long, long ago: You optimize the fun out of the game.

[sunderthefirmament]

11 minutes ago, Hexerin said:

Yes. As someone once put it long, long ago: You optimize the fun out of the game.

I’m not sure that you get to define fun for other players. 
 

And “Yes” to what?  “Yes” I should deliberately hamstring myself so I don’t risk breaking the game?

[Hexerin]

7 minutes ago, sunderthefirmament said:

I’m not sure that you get to define fun for other players. 
 

And “Yes” to what?  “Yes” I should deliberately hamstring myself so I don’t risk breaking the game?

You're so completely caught up in feeding your instant gratification addiction, that you are simply incapable of noticing the writing on the wall. The writing that you've literally already written out yourself, but are just completely failing at making the connection on.

[sunderthefirmament]

3 hours ago, Hexerin said:

You're so completely caught up in feeding your instant gratification addiction, that you are simply incapable of noticing the writing on the wall. The writing that you've literally already written out yourself, but are just completely failing at making the connection on.

Bringing a nuker frame and AOE weapon into a mission where the only objective is to kill enemies is wrong?

 

I'm sorry, but what are you defending?  DE's design decisions?  They give us these weapons, these shards, these abilities, these arcanes, and these mods, and we're supposed to... what, exactly?  Not use them?  I'm not a brainless meta chaser that's addicted to YouTube.  I can't even name a single Warframe streamer.  My most used frame is Ivara Prime, at something like 10-12%.  I use a wide variety of frames and weapons.  But when I'm trying to clear an objective quickly, I take advantage of the arsenal that I've spent thousands of hours building.

 

Are you suggesting that I'm doing it wrong because my efficiency has exposed a flaw in DE's design?

 

To get back to the OP, exterminate missions are capable of not spawning enough enemies if the player is moving quickly enough.  The kind of speed needed to break exterminate missions seems to depend upon having access to endgame builds.  If the goal of the game is to amass power (and have fun doing so), why are people who amass and use that power at greater risk of hitting a softlock?

[(XBOX)Rez090]

On 2023-10-05 at 2:48 AM, Tuxu_Holyland said:

That can be depressing, especially when you do SP exter and they don't even wait for the Acolytes... I mean, what's the point of doing the SP mission if you're don't get the goods? EVAH?(lil'duck)

B/c ur there for the relic, not the Acolyte.

[JohnMorte]

Good to see that the persistent blaming of the players continues. There are multiple modes that are in dire need of either quality of life fixing or simply being fixed on a basic level. Reactant missions still have spawning issues, and it is blatantly apparent that exterminates also contain similar spawning issues. Instead, the community insists on blaming players instead of just pushing for fixes that are incredibly easy to implement.

The community needs to grow up.

[Tuxu_Holyland]

On 2023-10-06 at 11:35 PM, Hexerin said:

Not really seeing any issues, and never have.

Okay, so if I haven't really seen penguin that means that they don't exist.
Perfect logic! :)

Not enough mobs are being spawned in Exterminate missions regardless of your personal experience.

On 2023-10-12 at 10:53 AM, JohnMorte said:

Good to see that the persistent blaming of the players continues. There are multiple modes that are in dire need of either quality of life fixing or simply being fixed on a basic level. Reactant missions still have spawning issues, and it is blatantly apparent that exterminates also contain similar spawning issues. Instead, the community insists on blaming players instead of just pushing for fixes that are incredibly easy to implement.

The community needs to grow up.

Amen.