Rivens for Warframes

[Birdframe_Prime]

20 hours ago, quxier said:

Variable or not variable system won't address issues (even subjective) with certain frames. That's my point. "Variable stats" may be issue that stops DE from implementing it but I think it's just tip of iceberg.

They definitely won't. That's why adding another thing into the mix like this is almost certainly a bad idea.

It's hard enough to get DE to rework old frames or even to fix known issues... 

[quxier]

On 2023-10-12 at 8:55 PM, Birdframe_Prime said:

It's hard enough to get DE to rework old frames or even to fix known issues... 

That's why, in my opinion, such suggestions are good. They are not changing certain ONE element. They are changing whole system so we, players, can change MANY elements.

[Birdframe_Prime]

2 hours ago, quxier said:

That's why, in my opinion, such suggestions are good. They are not changing certain ONE element. They are changing whole system so we, players, can change MANY elements.

Except you're forgetting the original statement; variable stats makes testing abilities harder. So when they have to test a full rework and then layer variable stats on top of that?

As I said, it's hard enough to get them to do reworks, adding complexity to that will only delay them.

[quxier]

5 minutes ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

2 hours ago, quxier said:

That's why, in my opinion, such suggestions are good. They are not changing certain ONE element. They are changing whole system so we, players, can change MANY elements.

Except you're forgetting the original statement; variable stats makes testing abilities harder. So when they have to test a full rework and then layer variable stats on top of that?

As I said, it's hard enough to get them to do reworks, adding complexity to that will only delay them.

Variable stats makes it harder but not impossible to test/do/implement. And as I said, they are not reworking/changing 1 frame but potentially 50+.

[(XBOX)Mastermitchel89]

On 2023-10-09 at 8:19 PM, Waeleto said:

Please no

+80% Range

+270% Aim Glide

 

-150% Health

[Waeleto]

10 hours ago, (XBOX)Mastermitchel89 said:

+80% Range

+270% Aim Glide

 

-150% Health

You spawn dead 

[Birdframe_Prime]

21 hours ago, quxier said:

Variable stats makes it harder but not impossible to test/do/implement. And as I said, they are not reworking/changing 1 frame but potentially 50+.

So... you want to multiply the work by 50+ times?

I don't... think you're getting their point, here...

You keep saying 'not impossible' when DE are already against 'more difficult' and have stated that's the reason whey they took them away in the first place.

[quxier]

1 hour ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

23 hours ago, quxier said:

Variable stats makes it harder but not impossible to test/do/implement. And as I said, they are not reworking/changing 1 frame but potentially 50+.

So... you want to multiply the work by 50+ times?

No, I mean divide by 50+ times. Let me give you an example with current system (not perfect). Helminth lets you put 1 ability into any (50+) frames. That can "fix" (don't sweat details here) any frames. 50? 100? 200? Doesn't matter. They don't have to change/rework each frame. They change (if necessary) ONE system that affects ALL frames.

1 hour ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

I don't... think you're getting their point, here...

You keep saying 'not impossible' when DE are already against 'more difficult' and have stated that's the reason whey they took them away in the first place.

You look only at one side of coin.

From what I understand is that they said "it's (much) more difficult and they won't do it". That's one side of coin. That's "work" required to do something. If anything "harder" meant "no, we won't do it" for DE then we wouldn't see many things.

Other side of coin that I don't see well explained is what benefit(s) would it (variable stats for frame OR frame riven) give/take. It would give more "power" for players. Do we need random stats for that? No, it's just easier to put +stat mods (e.g. Primed mods). Look at Helminth system (again) it's much harder to implement but they still implemented it. Why? Helminth has potential to "fix" some issues WITHOUT DE taking effort (or at least "too much" effort).

19 hours ago, (XBOX)Mastermitchel89 said:

+80% Range

+270% Aim Glide

 

-150% Health

8 hours ago, Waeleto said:

You spawn dead 

It depends if it's at base rank 0 OR moded.

Or it can create some weird interaction were you get negative health (aka lot more HP).

 

[Zaghyr]

On 2023-10-11 at 3:15 PM, Birdframe_Prime said:

Invigorations and Archon shards don't have a scale. They don't have variable stats based on the roll.

That's what's holding this idea back.

DE don't want variable stat boosts available as a mod on a Warframe. Pure and simple.

Fixed boons they can test, they can quantify. Random roll ones are too much work, according to them.

I can get Frame Riven mods having variable stats being a bad thing, but I think Riven mods for Frames can work. I also think Frames having dispositions is unnecessary. The mods would be static stats within the range. Where they end up in that range would be determined by how many positive/negative stats are on the mod, just like weapon Rivens. The stats could also be relatively small, like no greater than 25-30% for a stat like duration or strength, but the mods themselves would have a greater emphasis on more niche stats that could be attractive for a particular frame in terms of fun or QOL but not strong enough for its own slot.

What I would like to see most however are Augment-lite effects on these mods. Effects that are relatively small and not strong enough to be their own mod.

A hypothetical Riven mods for Zephyr for example (numbers are just to illustrate concept, not proper tuning):

Example 1:

• +25% Range
• +3 second Aim Glide duration
• -25% Strength 
• 30% chance to extend duration of Tornados by 1 second when picking up a health orb
  • An effect like this could give me a reason to run something like Arcane Blessing on Zephyr just to have synergy in the build

Example 2:

• +20% Duration
• +20% HP (because of the upcoming defense stat changes)
• While Turbulence is active, gain 2 Ranks to the Carnis Set Bonus
  • A mod like this would actually be pretty nice to make a melee build focused towards Carnis for example

For a mod that would cost 18 capacity, as long as the stat numbers are low enough, I think Frame Riven mods could be something cool and interesting to let players make builds more suited for them without breaking the game any more than anything else does currently.

[Birdframe_Prime]

On 2023-10-14 at 11:02 PM, quxier said:

You look only at one side of coin.

From what I understand is that they said "it's (much) more difficult and they won't do it". That's one side of coin. That's "work" required to do something. If anything "harder" meant "no, we won't do it" for DE then we wouldn't see many things.

No, I look at the side that said 'it's too hard' and literally stopped doing it, removing the function from the game because it used to be in the game.

11 hours ago, Zaghyr said:

I can get Frame Riven mods having variable stats being a bad thing, but I think Riven mods for Frames can work.

Except, again, that it's not just an opinion I'm making here.

DE had variable stat mods for Warframes in the game, declared that they didn't want them in the game, and specifically took them out.

Doesn't matter if we think they can work.

[Qriist]

35 minutes ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

DE had variable stat mods for Warframes in the game, declared that they didn't want them in the game, and specifically took them out.

I don't really have an opinion on this topic but I'm actually quite curious to see some of these old mods. Would you be able to link me?

[Birdframe_Prime]

1 hour ago, Qriist said:

I don't really have an opinion on this topic but I'm actually quite curious to see some of these old mods. Would you be able to link me?

Technically you've actually seen them. The old random stat mods were just the 2D graphic of what the 3D object is in game when you pick up a mod drop.

These were installed in nodes in the upgrade tree that we used to have, the one that used our level points as an actual point system. like this:

All they did was apply a random-roll buff to a specific stat, but they fit everywhere you see the square box labelled 'Mod Slot' on the tree.

They weren't nearly as comprehensive as Rivens, but when DE reworked this to be the card-style modding screen (that we had by the time I returned to the game and made my second account in 2014) they explained that they did not want Warframes to have the random nature. All mods would be 'unique' and have names, specific stats they affected, and a set value they could increase stats to.

The overall idea being that 'if two players walk into a mission with the same mods equipped, at the same rank, they perform exactly the same'. Which made the whole process of creating the 2.0 mods and new Warframes consistent.

I mean, they could have done this while keeping the tech-tree style, I suppose, but it's much easier to have our actual Health, Shield, Energy Pool and so on increase automatically with the Warframe's level, leaving us with just the slots to put the new Mods into. DE converted all of the 1.0 mods into Fusion Cores when they made this change, which was what became Endo more recently. If you ever wonder why a 'Legendary Core' is called that, it's because it's the last remaining Fusion Core in the game ^^

So yeah, I couldn't get a screenshot from anyone actually showing the stats, not even my own old screenshots, but basically when you clicked on one of the old Mods it would tell you what attribute it affected, and then by how much, very similar to how the current mods display it.

[Qriist]

17 minutes ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

These were installed in nodes in the upgrade tree that we used to have, the one that used our level points as an actual point system. like this:

Thank you! That was an excellent explanation. :)