a Revenant rework nobody asked for

[SDGDen]

Recently, i've been quite annoyed at revenant's ability design and how it results in what is in my opinion one of the most boring playstyles in the game. In this post I'll try to present some reasons why the way revenant currently works is bad and rework his abilities to fix these issues while making him more interesting to play.

to me, there are two big issues with revenant, the first is how most of his ability synergy is related to his thralls and the second is how mesmer skin is practically consistent full damage immunity with very little upkeep, management and interaction. 

 

lets start with his 1, enthrall. the biggest issue here is that thralls can be killed by your allies, in a game where the meta has always revolved around AOE, this is a problem. on top of this, turned enemies tend to be very bad due to their weak weapons, entrall does not give them a damage bonus (unlike nyx's mind control which frequently nets you a 1000% damage bonus or higher) and the on death mechanic of spawning a damaging pillar is nearly useless not just due to the damage output being mediocre but the range also being very small. the pillar itsself is 2 meters in radius by default and the projectiles it fires are only capable of hitting enemies in a 10 meter radius. 

to enthrall, i'd like to make the following changes:

>alpha thralls no longer take damage from allies
>thralls are more visually distinct
>thralls get a damage buff affected by your power strength
>your maximum thrall amount scales with power strength
>beta thralls can spawn pillars.

"beta" thralls are thralls that are made by projectiles from the pillar dealing damage to enemies, they cannot leave behind their own pillar so it prevents the pillars from cycling in the current version of the power. this cycling ability seems like a fun gameplay style, spreading thralls around. do note that under my setup, beta thralls can still be killed by your allies, but will leave those pillars behind that then convert more nearby enemies into thralls to repeat the process. the damage boost also helps them be more useful.

 

speaking of which, mesmer skin.

mesmer skin is interesting as an ability because it guards against singular hits. the ability has charges, and each charge guarantees full damage mitigation and a full second of invulnerability, it also stuns enemies that try to hit you for 5 seconds. it also prevents you from being knocked down or back by any enemy as the entire effect is reflected. 

the problem here is that even at base, revenant gets 6 seconds of guaranteed invulnerability (assuming enemies perfectly hit you the milisecond you become vulnerable every single time) every time he casts mesmer skin, which can be recast AS SOON as it runs out, the speed at which it can be recast fits within your shieldgate, so as long as you can manage to have the energy to recast mesmer skin when it runs out, you are practically permanently invulnerable with the only upkeep being "if the number becomes 0, press 2". this is both overpowered and very unengaging. 

 

here's how i'd like to change the ability:

>base charges are doubled to 12
>when your charges run out or you disable the ability, the ability goes on cooldown, this cooldown is based on how many charges you've used. cooldown per charge is based on duration. 
>mesmer shield, the augment, is changed to simply sharing your full charge pull with nearby allies (and retains the +50% mesmer skin strength). mesmer shield SPECIFICALLY excludes thralls. 
>when you regain a charge through reave, it's also removed from the cooldown, so you can't stack up an infinitely high cooldown. 

 

i changed the augment because it would be very inconvenient to have to suffer the cooldown every time your allies ran out of their 5 charges despite you still having close to 20. the cooldown means you can't simply face tank all the damage without any risk, you need to manage that risk and use your mesmer skin as a "backup" in case you DO get hit. due to enthrall's changes making thralls more viable, you can also now more reliably restore charges by making use of reave. reave restores one charge of mesmer skin per thrall you pass through. 

 

speaking of reave:

reave currently is not that useful mostly because it's main purpose is to restore health and shields... to a frame that has full immortality. the fact it has scaling damage makes it quite a powerful tool for damage dealing in theory but unless you use it against thralls it's not really that useful. with the changes to thralls, using it against thralls becomes more viable (since they don't instantly perish). this also enables mesmer skin's cooldown to not be *too* big of a deal since it can be mitigated by actively playing around revenant's thralls and reave. 

Lastly for danse macabre:

i'd only have one thing changed: danse macabre no longer makes energy pillars explode. with the changes to entrall, you want those energy pillars to stay so they can spread entrall. outside of that, i think danse macabre is practically fine. the ability is a bit clunky but the damage from it is quite high, it scales and it adapts to deal the optimal amount of damage to different types of targets. the 50 overshield pickup on killing enthralled enemies is a bit weird, but honestly not a big deal especially with more thralls in this rework. 

 

 

 

and last but certainly not least, his passive. 
revenant is immune to the magnetic waters in the plains.... really? that's useless. 
additionally, when his shield depletes, revenant emits a 100 damage radial blast that knocks down enemies, there's falloff on this.

 

so basically, all it's good for is knocking down melee attackers when your shields break... which is not going to happen if you play revenant well with this rework (or in the current version, if you know how to press 2). 

i propose scrapping the knockdown, it feels out of place and useless. instead, expand the immunity to magnetic waters to immunity to ALL magnetic procs. this feels like a solid passive as it protects you from energy leech eximi, sensor bars, ancient disruptors and some thrax enemy attacks (not to mention the eidolons which let out huge blasts of mag procs during their fight)




the way i imagine this rework playing is as follows: you activate mesmer skin when under threat, you spread your thralls and selectively reave them while leaving some to re-spread to keep your mesmer skin count up and use his danse macabre to clear out chunks of enemies in case of emergency. this hits the two big goals i wanted to hit with the rework of making his thralls less useless and his mesmer skin more interactive. 


 

anyways, that's all i wanted to present. i hope yall enjoyed reading it! 

[Jabett]

You understand this game is a power fantasy type game right? so why are you trying to limit the power fantasy? you compared nyx's ability to contol ONE enemy at a time vs revenant's ability to control a large quantity, without mentioning nyx has an even stronger immortality ability than revenant, but you aren't called for that to be nerfed??? Reave doesn't just restore health and shields either, it has a decently fast travel time and strips armour. In addition to this, reave converts all enemies stunned with mesmer skin into thralls. The only real points you've made is that thrall damage is lacking, and the pillars aren't very effective, in addition to a (very) lacklustre passive ability.

[S2Weak]

He is not overpowered (by modern warframe standard). He is just boring to play.

His 2nd and 4th is more mind-numbing than Hydroid's puddle.

(Reminder that Hydroid can use other abilities in puddle form and there are synergies between puddle and other abilities)

His 3rd is literally Hydroid's 2nd.

[--Leyenda-yight6]

hace 1 hora, Jabett dijo:

You understand this game is a power fantasy type game right? so why are you trying to limit the power fantasy? you compared nyx's ability to contol ONE enemy at a time vs revenant's ability to control a large quantity, without mentioning nyx has an even stronger immortality ability than revenant, but you aren't called for that to be nerfed??? Reave doesn't just restore health and shields either, it has a decently fast travel time and strips armour. In addition to this, reave converts all enemies stunned with mesmer skin into thralls. The only real points you've made is that thrall damage is lacking, and the pillars aren't very effective, in addition to a (very) lacklustre passive ability.

Nyx's immortality has many limitations compared to Revenant's:
In addition to the consumption per second, he also loses energy for each enemy shot, Revenant only needs to consume 50 energy, he can recast the ability and stun enemies who shoot at him.
He can't move while using his 4 unless he uses his augment, even then he can't run or jump, Revenant has no movement or weapon limitations and doesn't need an augment for that.

The fact that the game focuses on the fantasy of power is no excuse for imbalance, all games need a balance, some more than others.

Edited October 29, 2023 by --Leyenda-yight6

[(PSN)slightconfuzzled]

I enjoyed reading, but I have no especially strong opinions one way or another. 

The only thing I feel strongly about, is that Revenant should follow Pokemon rules, and say his own name when he does attacks, but except for his 4, which should scale based on how long the ability is used, leading to Revenant just saying REEEEEEEE whilst spinning, then Venant once he stops. I think this idea, I had, is in fact, the greatest single idea, ever formed, and that DE would be silly goobers to not implement it, but alas, I have no power in their realm, and I musk now seek snacks. 

[(PSN)robotwars7]

funnily enough, i watched one of my preferred Warframe Youtubers, Bluprint (memes only) and he made a build for Revenant where his 2 was subsumed over, instead using Arcane Aegis, Guardian, Fast Deflection and Repair Dispensary augment with Nautilus, and basically shield tanking while using his 4 all the time.. what I'm saying is, where there's a will, there's a way lol.

personally I'm fine with his kit, yes Mesmer skin is strong, but you've also got frames like Nidus and Valkyr who can basically be invincible too. in any case, he's in a far better spot than the likes of Inaros or Nyx.

 

 

[SneakyErvin]

The one thing I wouldnt mind is if the enthrall augment turns thralls unkillable for their duration since it would help the mod to work reliably.

[Waeleto]

Why are people obsessed with killing revenant when he literally doesn't affect your gameplay in the slightest 

[(XBOX)zThulsaDoomz]

4 minutes ago, Waeleto said:

Why are people obsessed with killing revenant when he literally doesn't affect your gameplay in the slightest 

Some men just want to watch the world burn

[(XBOX)Hellsteeth30]

I barely use Revenant myself as he lacks theatrics.

He's just effective but boring, like Wukong, effective but boring.

Had a guy join our clan with the single goal of building Wukong.  

[(XBOX)Lord ChibiVR]

17 hours ago, SDGDen said:

 the second is how mesmer skin is practically consistent full damage immunity with very little upkeep, management and interaction. 

 

 

Invisibility frames (most notably Wisp) come to mind, especially since Octavia and Wisp can redirect enemies' aggro like Revenant on top of being invisible. 

(Not to mention Wisp can still cc eximus and spam her 2 like rolling guard.)

As much as I like Revenant tho, I will say he's like Nidus but without the downsides, but he doesn't really do as much as (for example) the newer frames so it kinda balances out.

Edited October 29, 2023 by (XBOX)Upl0rdYT