Strun incarnon AoE radial damage is force proc-ing impact status even though it has 0 impact damage.

[_.Hisoka._]

In my test I've seen 5 impact procs quite often. Something is definitely broken.

[Tiltskillet]

4 hours ago, _.Hisoka._ said:

In my test I've seen 5 impact procs quite often. Something is definitely broken.

Why do you think so?  Multishot affects the number of forced procs on almost all weapons*.  So with the multi on your riven, 4, 5, or 6 forced impact procs would be expected on direct hits, as there will be 2-3 on the projectile and 2-3 on the explosion.  

 

_{*The one exception I know of is Javlok's throw explosion, and it's only because multishot doesn't function on it in any way.}

[_.Hisoka._]

Bruv do not use the term 'forced procs' simultaneously/interchangeably with regular procs.

Forced procs are guaranteed to happen with every damage instance and multishot bullet. It happens even if you remove the damage completely with - impact rivens. Even if you have 0% status chance. Thats why its labelled as forced.

The problem is:
1. There are two to three impact procs that are forced from the radial damage, which has not been mentioned by anyone, anywhere (so I would like DE to confirm that strun radial is like the kuva chakkhur radial). You can confirm they by shooting the floor near the enemy in incarnon mode. 3 bullets on the floor = 3 impact procs on the enemy from the radial damage of each bullet. This is GUARANTEED.

2. If you shoot the enemy directly you will proc those 2 to 3 impact procs from the radial as well but now there are also another 2 to 3 impact procs from the projectile making contact that are NOT forced, because they occur only sometimes. This is normal as the projectile making contact is 100% impact damage and with some status chance on the weapon you are likely to proc it from time to time. However, if you have a -100% impact damage riven, the projectile making contact should not proc impact at all. This part of the damage is NOT forced so we know we can eliminate it with -100% impact damage rivens, but it doesn't and this challenges the existing logic in warframe damage calculations.

Edited November 15, 2023 by _.Hisoka._

[(XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom]

1 hour ago, _.Hisoka._ said:

If you shoot the enemy directly you will proc those 2 to 3 impact procs from the radial as well but now there are also another 2 to 3 impact procs from the projectile making contact that are NOT forced, because they occur only sometimes.

Except the direct hit does have forced Impact procs. You can literally see the direct hit attempting to proc Impact on certain status immune enemies.

  

On 2023-11-13 at 6:51 PM, Tiltskillet said:

Me too, but I'd like to hear from somebody who's Icarnononanated something other than Strun Prime.

Strun Wraith Incarnon has a forced Impact Proc on direct hit and AoE.

[The_Royal_Elf_Mika]

1 hour ago, _.Hisoka._ said:

Bruv do not use the term 'forced procs' simultaneously/interchangeably with regular procs.

Forced procs are guaranteed to happen with every damage instance and multishot bullet. It happens even if you remove the damage completely with - impact rivens. Even if you have 0% status chance. Thats why its labelled as forced.

The problem is:
1. There are two to three impact procs that are forced from the radial damage, which has not been mentioned by anyone, anywhere (so I would like DE to confirm that strun radial is like the kuva chakkhur radial). You can confirm they by shooting the floor near the enemy in incarnon mode. 3 bullets on the floor = 3 impact procs on the enemy from the radial damage of each bullet. This is GUARANTEED.

2. If you shoot the enemy directly you will proc those 2 to 3 impact procs from the radial as well but now there are also another 2 to 3 impact procs from the projectile making contact that are NOT forced, because they occur only sometimes. This is normal as the projectile making contact is 100% impact damage and with some status chance on the weapon you are likely to proc it from time to time. However, if you have a -100% impact damage riven, the projectile making contact should not proc impact at all. This part of the damage is NOT forced so we know we can eliminate it with -100% impact damage rivens, but it doesn't and this challenges the existing logic in warframe damage calculations.

i have the strun, its one of my favorite incarnons, it just has forced impact on direct hit/AoE. its not rocket science.

as someone who has a War with -100% impact, forced impact from weapons happens regardless of stats, its a hidden modifier on the weapon itself.

i made this mistake in the past, asking "why is my war doing impact damage even though i have no impact"
its because forced procs happen regardless of your status chance and happen on hit even if the element isnt even on the weapon.

[Tiltskillet]

1 hour ago, _.Hisoka._ said:

Forced procs are guaranteed to happen with every damage instance and multishot bullet. It happens even if you remove the damage completely with - impact rivens. Even if you have 0% status chance. Thats why its labelled as forced.

Glad we're on the same page.

 

1 hour ago, _.Hisoka._ said:

There are two to three impact procs that are forced from the radial damage, which has not been mentioned by anyone, anywhere (so I would like DE to confirm that strun radial is like the kuva chakkhur radial). You can confirm they by shooting the floor near the enemy in incarnon mode. 3 bullets on the floor = 3 impact procs on the enemy from the radial damage of each bullet. This is GUARANTEED.

I already confirmed this, and was aware of what "forced proc" means.  Also if you expect DE to confirm specific forced procs on anything but melee stances,--which only took them 9 years--you may be waiting a long time.

 

1 hour ago, _.Hisoka._ said:

If you shoot the enemy directly you will proc those 2 to 3 impact procs from the radial as well but now there are also another 2 to 3 impact procs from the projectile making contact that are NOT forced, because they occur only sometimes. This is normal as the projectile making contact is 100% impact damage and with some status chance on the weapon you are likely to proc it from time to time. However, if you have a -100% impact damage riven, the projectile making contact should not proc impact at all. This part of the damage is NOT forced so we know we can eliminate it with -100% impact damage rivens, but it doesn't and this challenges the existing logic in warframe damage calculations.

I'll ask you again.  With your riven and no other multishot or mods, do you ever see 7 or more impact procs on a direct hit.  Or fewer than 4? Because 4, 5, or 6 are perfectly explained by  your multi/-impact riven and forced impact on both the projectile hits and the explosions. 

 

[Tiltskillet]

26 minutes ago, (XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom said:

On 2023-11-13 at 3:51 PM, Tiltskillet said:

Me too, but I'd like to hear from somebody who's Icarnononanated something other than Strun Prime.

Strun Wraith Incarnon has a forced Impact Proc on direct hit and AoE.

Ah cool. 

Were you aware of forced impact on the Innodem projectiles?  That came up in another thread recently.

[(XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom]

9 minutes ago, Tiltskillet said:

Were you aware of forced impact on the Innodem projectiles?  That came up in another thread recently.

Yes. Did they do something to them?

[Tiltskillet]

3 minutes ago, (XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom said:

Yes. Did they do something to them?

Not as far as I know.  Just kind of funny that it's an interesting but unimportant forced impact proc that wasn't in the wiki and came up  in another thread at the same time as this one.  The Innodem procs show up in videos around the weapon's release, and are obvious because the projectiles have no impact component.  So hopefully nobody will be insisting that one's a bug.

[_.Hisoka._]

I tested with no mods and no multishot evolution and im getting 3 impact procs. I have no idea where the 3rd one comes from when my status chance is below 100%. It should be 1 from projectile and 1 from radial. I have to do more testing when I have time and update again.

[Tiltskillet]

7 hours ago, _.Hisoka._ said:

I tested with no mods and no multishot evolution and im getting 3 impact procs. I have no idea where the 3rd one comes from when my status chance is below 100%. It should be 1 from projectile and 1 from radial. I have to do more testing when I have time and update again.

With no mods and no multi, and either Commodore's Fortune or Brutal Edge, 3 impact is one of the expected results.   One for the forced impact on the explosion, one for the forced impact on the projectile, and a 46% or 94% chance of one more on the projectile depending on which Evo IV was selected.

I'm not sure what you're not grasping with these posts.   Do you think if a damage instance has forced impact it means no status chance roll is made?  If so, that's incorrect.  A forced proc is a guaranteed proc in addition to the status chance result.

If you mean something else, let me know.

Edited November 19, 2023 by Tiltskillet

[Famecans]

Most of my builds mainly shotguns and impact weapons are focused on cold as final damage, the first weapons that made me avoid viral status were Boar and Astila.

The viral status increases damage by 400%+ but cannot be targeted as it needs to be staked 10 times on each enemy, meanwhile the cold status significantly slows down most staggers and enemy animations, also increases critical damage natively and triggers [Primary Frostbit] which increases more damage on [Hunter Munitions].

In summary, [Primary Frostbit] is a passive damage increase for weapons with critical chance and works similar to viral damage but the damage from [Prymary Frostbit] can be triggered globally and transferred to any enemy not affected by cold status.

I know that guaranteed impact proc make headshots difficult, I know that guaranteed impact proc problematize warframes like Banshee and Harrow, but realize that any guaranteed proc also are a positive attribute in any weapon as it guarantees new modifications in hypothetical launches.