Universal incarnon

[Merkranire]

8 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Your Argonak isnt built, it's partially on the way towards a build, a simple damage build so far. A build that plays exactly the same no matter how high or low you push the damage and no matter which content you take it to, since in the end you shot stuff in a very basic way. Building it all out and then leaving the last slot for the Amalgam instead of another damage mod would lead to a unique build that plans on synergy with daggers and melee gameplay for instance, but you just have damage mods, nothing else. And your claim was earlier that SP prohibits you from "other" builds, while your "other" build here is just a half finished generic damage build.

I think your narrow definition of what constitutes a build is getting in the way

That’s the damage build for the Argonak for that content. For that content it doesn’t have to look like that; one of the damage-increasing mods can be replaced with a different one like multishot or crit or a different element or whatever and the gun will perform differently and potentially have different amounts of capacity leftover and possibly be set up for differing synergies with different pieces of loadout which haven’t been chosen yet. For this particular incarnation, there is no pushing it further unless it was incidental like if someone added a firerate mod or something using the spare slots and capacity to do so, and that’s only going to do so much. If you start filling those spare slots with mods that increase damage, it’s starts pushing the Argonak higher, at first making the kill time a little faster for the content, and then ultimately straight up making it built for something higher-level. So right now, it doesn’t need extra damage to serve a role

Those three mods are the base in this particular example for this particular gun and this particular content in isolation before the other pieces of the loadout are chosen including options where someone simply doesn’t bring a secondary or melee (though again and for like the third time, it’s not the only way to build), and there’s no reason you couldn’t add the Amalgam mod next and make a synergy happen with a dagger because there’s free slots and capacity. And then maybe, I dunno, more punch-through, and reload speed, and Shred. The point of that free space is that you have freedom, and for someone who may not even like the Argonak, they don’t need to sink a potato or extra forma to pull the build off since I believe it comes with a V and - polarity by default.

And this is a thing that I’ve been wondering about; I don’t know if you even know when it’s okay to stop adding damage for the content you’re building for. Level 40 doesn’t require level 60 doesn’t require level 140 SP doesn’t require level 140. And if all you’ve done is slapped more damage on before you got to a point when you felt like you had a complete build, that must have had knock-on effects for how the game has played out for you from the start

Edited January 21 by Merkranire

[SneakyErvin]

16 hours ago, Merkranire said:

I think your narrow definition of what constitutes a build is getting in the way

That’s the damage build for the Argonak for that content. For that content it doesn’t have to look like that; one of the damage-increasing mods can be replaced with a different one like multishot or crit or a different element or whatever and the gun will perform differently and potentially have different amounts of capacity leftover and possibly be set up for differing synergies with different pieces of loadout which haven’t been chosen yet. For this particular incarnation, there is no pushing it further unless it was incidental like if someone added a firerate mod or something using the spare slots and capacity to do so, and that’s only going to do so much. If you start filling those spare slots with mods that increase damage, it’s starts pushing the Argonak higher, at first making the kill time a little faster for the content, and then ultimately straight up making it built for something higher-level. So right now, it doesn’t need extra damage to serve a role

Those three mods are the base in this particular example for this particular gun and this particular content in isolation before the other pieces of the loadout are chosen including options where someone simply doesn’t bring a secondary or melee (though again and for like the third time, it’s not the only way to build), and there’s no reason you couldn’t add the Amalgam mod next and make a synergy happen with a dagger because there’s free slots and capacity. And then maybe, I dunno, more punch-through, and reload speed, and Shred. The point of that free space is that you have freedom, and for someone who may not even like the Argonak, they don’t need to sink a potato or extra forma to pull the build off since I believe it comes with a V and - polarity by default.

And this is a thing that I’ve been wondering about; I don’t know if you even know when it’s okay to stop adding damage for the content you’re building for. Level 40 doesn’t require level 60 doesn’t require level 140 SP doesn’t require level 140. And if all you’ve done is slapped more damage on before you got to a point when you felt like you had a complete build, that must have had knock-on effects for how the game has played out for you from the start

Still just a damage build. What you claimed earlier was that SP did not allow for the builds you wanted to use, and that you do use everything the game has provided in your builds on the SC. Neither is true, since what you show is a damage build, it plays no differently on SP, all it does is use more mods, none of which alters how it actually plays. You also apparently do not use what the game has provided you, you arent even using what the game provided you for years before SP even released. So SC is more limiting than SP will ever be, since it simply does not have the levels to support different builds properly, because you are effectively going out of your way to not make use of progress earned throughout the game (earned on the bloody SC at that), so sacrifice things you've earned in order to end up at a more engaging SC when SP is already there to provide that while also allowing you to use your progress and use full niche builds aswell.

Not what you claimed earlier, neither here or in the other thread. A damage build is a damage build, it works the same no matter if you have 1 mod in it or 8(9), since all it does is damage. SP doesnt stop you from building what you want. You've still failed to show actual builds that wouldnt work in SP, the mods you mentioned that could be added to your Argonak would work in SP aswell, it would also play the same and likely with slightly more engagement since you could tweak it more due to SP being more durable. So far easier to get it to a point you'd enjoy.

The point isnt about building for damage or not. The point is about your claim, that you cannot make builds you enjoy for SP, when all you've shown are damage builds anyways. You can do it all and then some in SP while using everything the game has actually provided you. So you complaining when someone wants more rewards added to SP just has no validity, since you arent pushed into some top tier builds in order to do SP, you can do it with very niche builds aswell. 

And the hilarious part is that you've claimed you use everything, then you show a build of a gun that does Arbis, which only has 3 mods in use. You think anyone will believe that you can make builds that allow for engaging gameplay on the SC that uses everything you've earned so far when you sit and only use 3/9 slots on a vanilla gun to make arbis engaging? Not to mention the "weak" AoE frames that wipe out whole SC maps on the later planets in a single cast without any strength investments.

[Merkranire]

5 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Still just a damage build. What you claimed earlier was that SP did not allow for the builds you wanted to use, and that you do use everything the game has provided in your builds on the SC. Neither is true, since what you show is a damage build, it plays no differently on SP, all it does is use more mods, none of which alters how it actually plays. You also apparently do not use what the game has provided you, you arent even using what the game provided you for years before SP even released. So SC is more limiting than SP will ever be, since it simply does not have the levels to support different builds properly, because you are effectively going out of your way to not make use of progress earned throughout the game (earned on the bloody SC at that), so sacrifice things you've earned in order to end up at a more engaging SC when SP is already there to provide that while also allowing you to use your progress and use full niche builds aswell.

Not what you claimed earlier, neither here or in the other thread. A damage build is a damage build, it works the same no matter if you have 1 mod in it or 8(9), since all it does is damage. SP doesnt stop you from building what you want. You've still failed to show actual builds that wouldnt work in SP, the mods you mentioned that could be added to your Argonak would work in SP aswell, it would also play the same and likely with slightly more engagement since you could tweak it more due to SP being more durable. So far easier to get it to a point you'd enjoy.

The point isnt about building for damage or not. The point is about your claim, that you cannot make builds you enjoy for SP, when all you've shown are damage builds anyways. You can do it all and then some in SP while using everything the game has actually provided you. So you complaining when someone wants more rewards added to SP just has no validity, since you arent pushed into some top tier builds in order to do SP, you can do it with very niche builds aswell. 

And the hilarious part is that you've claimed you use everything, then you show a build of a gun that does Arbis, which only has 3 mods in use. You think anyone will believe that you can make builds that allow for engaging gameplay on the SC that uses everything you've earned so far when you sit and only use 3/9 slots on a vanilla gun to make arbis engaging? Not to mention the "weak" AoE frames that wipe out whole SC maps on the later planets in a single cast without any strength investments.

I use everything, I have used everything, there is nothing I will not use, the whole game is not Steel Path, there’s multiple ways to build that Argonak which includes Arcanes or Galvanised or whatever, and I think you don’t even know why free slots (and by extension, free choice of the rest of the loadout) are valuable or why starting from the modless baseline is so crucial to exploring options

You’re painfully ignorant and amazingly stubborn about it, Ervin, and no, despite my appreciation for what it is and what it lets us do, I do not want Steel Path to be the only place worth going and ever more rewarding for reasons you clearly do not and will never understand while you act like the amount of viable options introduced into SP is a good thing for the mode that’s supposed to kill everything but the best. From the start I was against the introduction of rewards that would make players like you feel forced into playing it, when all I wanted was a nonsense unbalanced place to take my most nonsense unbalanced builds to test them knowing full well there’s a whole game elsewhere worth playing with more than those builds

Edited January 21 by Merkranire

[SneakyErvin]

18 hours ago, Merkranire said:

I use everything, I have used everything, there is nothing I will not use, the whole game is not Steel Path, there’s multiple ways to build that Argonak which includes Arcanes or Galvanised or whatever, and I think you don’t even know why free slots (and by extension, free choice of the rest of the loadout) are valuable or why starting from the modless baseline is so crucial to exploring options

You’re painfully ignorant and amazingly stubborn about it, Ervin, and no, despite my appreciation for what it is and what it lets us do, I do not want Steel Path to be the only place worth going and ever more rewarding for reasons you clearly do not and will never understand while you act like the amount of viable options introduced into SP is a good thing for the mode that’s supposed to kill everything but the best. From the start I was against the introduction of rewards that would make players like you feel forced into playing it, when all I wanted was a nonsense unbalanced place to take my most nonsense unbalanced builds to test them knowing full well there’s a whole game elsewhere worth playing with more than those builds

But uhm you dont. You have 3 mods in the weapon, that means you arent using everything even though you literally stated that you did. You dont use a gun arcane, you have 6 slots open and so on. You also only use the most basic mods available in a pure damage build at that.

Adding more rewards would not make it any more the place to be than it is now or how it was at the start or how it was even without any rewards planned. Since rewards are finite either through drops or by caps on the vendor, so it would be up to each and every player what they want when they want and how they want it. You clearly have no problem going slow in arbitrations, so I dont see your gripe with SP since there is no difference if you go slow there or in arbis with a less than optimal build for the content. 

SP is no more the place to be than Arbis when they were the most relevant, since both offer practically the same progression through mode specific drops and mode specific currency to buy appealing rewards from the vendor. And there was no problem when arbitrations had further rewards introduced, so no reason there should be a problem adding more rewards to SP either. You have zero consistancy in your complaints and reasoning, your reasoning lacks reason.

I really dont get your obsession with the idea that SP must be played with specific builds and why you cannot do what you do elsewhere i.e downgrading if that is your cup of tea. You are in the end the one that claims specific builds must be used due to imbalance in SP while others have already told you it can be done with builds that are far from top tier or min-maxed. Things only needed if you wanna push very far, just like how it is on SC when you get above certain rotations and level scaling, which also applies to arbis since it is only endless. In the end going far is optional.

Edited January 22 by SneakyErvin

[Merkranire]

6 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

But uhm you dont. You have 3 mods in the weapon, that means you arent using everything even though you literally stated that you did. You dont use a gun arcane, you have 6 slots open and so on. You also only use the most basic mods available in a pure damage build at that.

Adding more rewards would not make it any more the place to be than it is now or how it was at the start or how it was even without any rewards planned. Since rewards are finite either through drops or by caps on the vendor, so it would be up to each and every player what they want when they want and how they want it. You clearly have no problem going slow in arbitrations, so I dont see your gripe with SP since there is no difference if you go slow there or in arbis with a less than optimal build for the content. 

SP is no more the place to be than Arbis when they were the most relevant, since both offer practically the same progression through mode specific drops and mode specific currency to buy appealing rewards from the vendor. And there was no problem when arbitrations had further rewards introduced, so no reason there should be a problem adding more rewards to SP either. You have zero consistancy in your complaints and reasoning, your reasoning lacks reason.

I really dont get your obsession with the idea that SP must be played with specific builds and why you cannot do what you do elsewhere i.e downgrading if that is your cup of tea. You are in the end the one that claims specific builds must be used due to imbalance in SP while others have already told you it can be done with builds that are far from top tier or min-maxed. Things only needed if you wanna push very far, just like how it is on SC when you get above certain rotations and level scaling, which also applies to arbis since it is only endless. In the end going far is optional.

Sigh

The thing I’m amazed at after all of this is just how mind-bogglingly different in perspective we are despite playing the same game (though at one point in time early in my gameplay we would have been on the same page).

If I see you trying to convince someone else that the only way worth building and the only place worth playing is Steel Path, Ervin, I’m going to pull you up on it

Edited January 22 by Merkranire

[Packetdancer]

On 2024-01-21 at 8:34 AM, SneakyErvin said:

And the hilarious part is that you've claimed you use everything, then you show a build of a gun that does Arbis, which only has 3 mods in use. You think anyone will believe that you can make builds that allow for engaging gameplay on the SC that uses everything you've earned so far when you sit and only use 3/9 slots on a vanilla gun to make arbis engaging? Not to mention the "weak" AoE frames that wipe out whole SC maps on the later planets in a single cast without any strength investments.

I think you and Merkranire may actually be sort of arguing entirely different things.

You seem -- like I was -- to be taking the argument as "there's only one possible way to do Steel Path," which is manifestly untrue. And it's easy to call out the dozens of different ways to tackle things and build atop them, especially if we assume someone has everything at their disposal... hence my original pointing out of how you could do interesting things with the Argonak augment and some thought put into a build for a melee weapon.

And in arguing that, we were both very focused on "here is how you can build differently for the Steel Path," but I suspect that came across as "here is how you can build differently for the Steel Path." And the difference in emphasis is maybe important to the seeming clash here.

Because I think, if I read Merkranire's intent correctly at this point -- given the talk of having been failed by the community as a newer Tenno -- that the argument being put forward (albeit perhaps with some hyperbole clouding it more than would be ideal) is actually more along the lines of "a large part of the community gives advice based on a very narrow set of build types and only one actual goal (Steel Path viability), and giving new players that type of advice is little help and does them no favors."

And that? That argument I do think has some degree of merit.

That's why I took the context of the only-three-mods gun as an example of what someone fresh to Arbitrations might do if they didn't have a lot of mods to toss in. It demonstrates that elemental damage will be more effective (in many cases) to build up overall damage, and the use of radiation damage specifically will help chip away Grineer alloy armor (something I've sometimes seen newer folks struggle with in Arbis, for some reason), and the improved status chance on the Argonak's secondary fire has at least some chance of inflicting Confusion on enemies, turning them on each other to "thin the herd" a bit.

Is it an optimal build? No, of course not; even without building for Steel Path you could build it for a lot more. Just in isolation, you could fit Rifle Aptitude on there to help the secondary fire, for instance. Or lean into the primary fire's crit chance. There's plenty of low-hanging fruit, even before you get into more creative options.

But is it something someone just hitting arbis for the first time could likely reasonably and effectively field? Yep, absolutely. And it certainly leaves slots open to grow into as you get ahold of additional meaningful mods. Or to toss in situationally appropriate mods if someone really needs them, like the faction damage mods or such.

Hence why it was in that "building for what folks have available, rather than for overwhelming force" spirit that I recommended Galvanized Chamber as an easy addition if our hypothetical Tenno were struggling and needed more damage. (Since if our hypothetical Tenno is setting out to do Arbitrations, I do at least know they can get access to that mod.)

At any rate, and anything else about the conversation aside... I genuinely really do think it is a problem that almost every bit of build advice floating around is targeted to Steel Path. I have three friends new to the game right now (and we're talking pre-Second-Dream new), and the one who went proactively seeking build advice online noted (unsurprisingly) that much of it has been... unhelpful, at best. 100% armor strip is not a crucial tool in baseline star chart -- especially for pre-Second-Dream content -- and further, much of the build advice focuses on mods they cannot reasonably have yet.

And that... yeah, that's not ideal. Because the game sure as heck doesn't help new folks figure out how to mod effectively, which means newer Tenno are naturally going to be turning to outside sources.

Edited January 23 by Packetdancer

[SneakyErvin]

17 hours ago, Merkranire said:

Sigh

The thing I’m amazed at after all of this is just how mind-bogglingly different in perspective we are despite playing the same game (though at one point in time early in my gameplay we would have been on the same page).

If I see you trying to convince someone else that the only way worth building and the only place worth playing is Steel Path, Ervin, I’m going to pull you up on it

But no one is saying SP is the only place worth playing or building for. I'm saying SP can be done with a multitude of non-meta builds, including gimmick and gag builds.

 

11 hours ago, Packetdancer said:

I think you and Merkranire may actually be sort of arguing entirely different things.

You seem -- like I was -- to be taking the argument as "there's only one possible way to do Steel Path," which is manifestly untrue. And it's easy to call out the dozens of different ways to tackle things and build atop them, especially if we assume someone has everything at their disposal... hence my original pointing out of how you could do interesting things with the Argonak augment and some thought put into a build for a melee weapon.

And in arguing that, we were both very focused on "here is how you can build differently for the Steel Path," but I suspect that came across as "here is how you can build differently for the Steel Path." And the difference in emphasis is maybe important to the seeming clash here.

Because I think, if I read Merkranire's intent correctly at this point -- given the talk of having been failed by the community as a newer Tenno -- that the argument being put forward (albeit perhaps with some hyperbole clouding it more than would be ideal) is actually more along the lines of "a large part of the community gives advice based on a very narrow set of build types and only one actual goal (Steel Path viability), and giving new players that type of advice is little help and does them no favors."

And that? That argument I do think has some degree of merit.

That's why I took the context of the only-three-mods gun as an example of what someone fresh to Arbitrations might do if they didn't have a lot of mods to toss in. It demonstrates that elemental damage will be more effective (in many cases) to build up overall damage, and the use of radiation damage specifically will help chip away Grineer alloy armor (something I've sometimes seen newer folks struggle with in Arbis, for some reason), and the improved status chance on the Argonak's secondary fire has at least some chance of inflicting Confusion on enemies, turning them on each other to "thin the herd" a bit.

Is it an optimal build? No, of course not; even without building for Steel Path you could build it for a lot more. Just in isolation, you could fit Rifle Aptitude on there to help the secondary fire, for instance. Or lean into the primary fire's crit chance. There's plenty of low-hanging fruit, even before you get into more creative options.

But is it something someone just hitting arbis for the first time could likely reasonably and effectively field? Yep, absolutely. And it certainly leaves slots open to grow into as you get ahold of additional meaningful mods. Or to toss in situationally appropriate mods if someone really needs them, like the faction damage mods or such.

Hence why it was in that "building for what folks have available, rather than for overwhelming force" spirit that I recommended Galvanized Chamber as an easy addition if our hypothetical Tenno were struggling and needed more damage. (Since if our hypothetical Tenno is setting out to do Arbitrations, I do at least know they can get access to that mod.)

At any rate, and anything else about the conversation aside... I genuinely really do think it is a problem that almost every bit of build advice floating around is targeted to Steel Path. I have three friends new to the game right now (and we're talking pre-Second-Dream new), and the one who went proactively seeking build advice online noted (unsurprisingly) that much of it has been... unhelpful, at best. 100% armor strip is not a crucial tool in baseline star chart -- especially for pre-Second-Dream content -- and further, much of the build advice focuses on mods they cannot reasonably have yet.

And that... yeah, that's not ideal. Because the game sure as heck doesn't help new folks figure out how to mod effectively, which means newer Tenno are naturally going to be turning to outside sources.

The main issue is that it wasnt his intent, neither here or in the other thread where he started to argue how imbalanced and build-narrowing SP is. He is speaking about having it all but simply not wanting to use it.

I'm all ok with people giving suggestions for people that might not have everything yet, which corner to start in with a build and so on. But mostly those also detail what you will eventually add as you get more mods and not just slap a 3 mod "build" there with the newer playing having to figure out the rest for themselves, what to add and when to remove the rad etc. But he isnt even caring about that, he is simply here to downtalk SP and the people that play it since he just doesnt want to build any way but the way he wants to build. His first answer in the other thread about SP was practically that more loot shouldnt be added since he doesnt want to build so he can farm it. Then he tried to scew it to a point where he claims SC is balanced and can be made engaging through building, while the truth is little can be done to builds in order to make SC engaging, while SP can get as easy or as engaging as you like with different build setups. 

Not only is that a problem with his arguing, since he also argues as if the game should not move forward, since he complains about content that is available with items from years and years ago, and accessible through various builds, with the only limit on builds is how far you actually plan to go, exactly like SC. While at the same time he fails to formulate how SP is imbalanced aswell, or what builds he wants to use even.

[Merkranire]

7 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

But no one is saying SP is the only place worth playing or building for. I'm saying SP can be done with a multitude of non-meta builds, including gimmick and gag builds.

YYYYYYUOOOOOOUUUUUU ARE SAYING IT, ERVIN. What do you think I’m hearing when you keep banging on about playing in Steel Path and building for it?? And for the last #*!%ing time, I like SP for what it lets us do, but it’s not the only place worth playing or building for, so stop acting like it is!!!

Take that god damned Argonak build, with all of its spare slots and capacity that can fit more than just damage and free Arcane and as-yet-unchosen potential for Warframe and secondary and school and whatever else, and shoot some Steel Path enemies with it and tell me how it fares.

And then replace, I don’t know, Serration with a Galvanised mod and do the same. And then replace Serration with an Arcane, freeing up 7 capacity and a V slot. And then return the Serration and replace the heat mod with a Galvanised mod or Arcane. And then return it to normal and add a Galvanised or Arcane and tell me what amount of slots or capacity it cost. And then point each of those builds at different non-SP enemies and tell me how it fares and how the gun is built different and what potential it holds for alternative building and synergy and gameplay customisation and how it tackles different content!

Edited January 23 by Merkranire

[Merkranire]

7 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

The main issue is that it wasnt his intent, neither here or in the other thread where he started to argue how imbalanced and build-narrowing SP is. He is speaking about having it all but simply not wanting to use it.

I'm all ok with people giving suggestions for people that might not have everything yet, which corner to start in with a build and so on. But mostly those also detail what you will eventually add as you get more mods and not just slap a 3 mod "build" there with the newer playing having to figure out the rest for themselves, what to add and when to remove the rad etc. But he isnt even caring about that, he is simply here to downtalk SP and the people that play it since he just doesnt want to build any way but the way he wants to build. His first answer in the other thread about SP was practically that more loot shouldnt be added since he doesnt want to build so he can farm it. Then he tried to scew it to a point where he claims SC is balanced and can be made engaging through building, while the truth is little can be done to builds in order to make SC engaging, while SP can get as easy or as engaging as you like with different build setups. 

Not only is that a problem with his arguing, since he also argues as if the game should not move forward, since he complains about content that is available with items from years and years ago, and accessible through various builds, with the only limit on builds is how far you actually plan to go, exactly like SC. While at the same time he fails to formulate how SP is imbalanced aswell, or what builds he wants to use even.

Ervin, you could not misunderstand what I’m saying more if you tried, and by this point, I’m pretty sure you’re trying. @Packetdancer is far closer, though we’re not on exactly the same page, we’re at least thinking along similar lines

Edited January 23 by Merkranire

[SneakyErvin]

15 hours ago, Merkranire said:

YYYYYYUOOOOOOUUUUUU ARE SAYING IT, ERVIN. What do you think I’m hearing when you keep banging on about playing in Steel Path and building for it?? And for the last #*!%ing time, I like SP for what it lets us do, but it’s not the only place worth playing or building for, so stop acting like it is!!!

Take that god damned Argonak build, with all of its spare slots and capacity that can fit more than just damage and free Arcane and as-yet-unchosen potential for Warframe and secondary and school and whatever else, and shoot some Steel Path enemies with it and tell me how it fares.

And then replace, I don’t know, Serration with a Galvanised mod and do the same. And then replace Serration with an Arcane, freeing up 7 capacity and a V slot. And then return the Serration and replace the heat mod with a Galvanised mod or Arcane. And then return it to normal and add a Galvanised or Arcane and tell me what amount of slots or capacity it cost. And then point each of those builds at different non-SP enemies and tell me how it fares and how the gun is built different and what potential it holds for alternative building and synergy and gameplay customisation and how it tackles different content!

Again, not the only place, like I said in the bloody quote you even decided to quote. And taking gag builds and gimmicks to SP is not building for SP, it's just builds that work elsewhere work in SP too. The only difference is that the gag or gimmick build from elsewhere might need a bit more damage in the build, but it doesnt change what the build does, which is the whole point of builds, to have something that defines them and seperates them from another. If you mod a gun fully with radiation and then another with viral and a third with corrosive they still end up doing the same thing and playing the same way, they all deal damage as you hit your fire button. Leaving some slots open on one does not suddenly turn it into another build, you sit with the same build, since the intent is the same, you just deal less damage.

It isnt even a full build, it isnt even suited for serious arbitration play. It is also an unrealistic setup in a game that is 10+ years old, since new content releases need to cater to those potential 10+ year players aswell. So that someone might end up in SP with your 3 mod build is very unlikely, since mods several times beyond that already exsisted upon the release of the mode, and before arbis aswell.

Also why would I replace serration with a galv mod or do any of what you imagine here and leave the gun with only 3 mods? If those replacements are available the player has already cleared those content pieces and have access to items for full builds. You complain about SP while refusing to even utilize the mod slots of a weapon and claim SP requires specific builds. No SP just requires basic builds.

We've seen other false info aswell like "SP requires defense strips" and "SP requires slash" etc.

You and others make it sound like you must play longer than rotation C even if that isnt mandatory, that is the only real point in SP where you actually might start to consider your builds in any serious way regarding the mode. But the only requirement to farm SP is to be able to do the bare minimum. Hence why leveling in SP is possible, because you can reach the rotation requirement with a half modded weapon. And that is before we even factor in that you arent forced to go beyond Earth, you arent even forced to farm the Grineer to get the loot tied to SP.

15 hours ago, Merkranire said:

Ervin, you could not misunderstand what I’m saying more if you tried, and by this point, I’m pretty sure you’re trying. Packetdancer is far closer, though we’re not on exactly the same page, we’re at least thinking along similar lines

Not according to most of your posts neither here or in the other thread. Though yes, your Argonak example could be taken that way if people have missed the rest of your rants.

Edited January 24 by SneakyErvin

[Merkranire]

7 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Again, not the only place, like I said in the bloody quote you even decided to quote. And taking gag builds and gimmicks to SP is not building for SP, it's just builds that work elsewhere work in SP too. The only difference is that the gag or gimmick build from elsewhere might need a bit more damage in the build, but it doesnt change what the build does, which is the whole point of builds, to have something that defines them and seperates them from another. If you mod a gun fully with radiation and then another with viral and a third with corrosive they still end up doing the same thing and playing the same way, they all deal damage as you hit your fire button. Leaving some slots open on one does not suddenly turn it into another build, you sit with the same build, since the intent is the same, you just deal less damage.

It isnt even a full build, it isnt even suited for serious arbitration play. It is also an unrealistic setup in a game that is 10+ years old, since new content releases need to cater to those potential 10+ year players aswell. So that someone might end up in SP with your 3 mod build is very unlikely, since mods several times beyond that already exsisted upon the release of the mode, and before arbis aswell.

Also why would I replace serration with a galv mod or do any of what you imagine here and leave the gun with only 3 mods? If those replacements are available the player has already cleared those content pieces and have access to items for full builds. You complain about SP while refusing to even utilize the mod slots of a weapon and claim SP requires specific builds. No SP just requires basic builds.

We've seen other false info aswell like "SP requires defense strips" and "SP requires slash" etc.

You and others make it sound like you must play longer than rotation C even if that isnt mandatory, that is the only real point in SP where you actually might start to consider your builds in any serious way regarding the mode. But the only requirement to farm SP is to be able to do the bare minimum. Hence why leveling in SP is possible, because you can reach the rotation requirement with a half modded weapon. And that is before we even factor in that you arent forced to go beyond Earth, you arent even forced to farm the Grineer to get the loot tied to SP.

Not according to most of your posts neither here or in the other thread. Though yes, your Argonak example could be taken that way if people have missed the rest of your rants.

Ervin, your narrow ideas of how to build and play are only doing harm instead of any good. You do not lecture me on what a build is supposed to do and be.

I give up, and you can rot with your limited views. Again, if I see you spouting this garbage to someone else, I’m going to pull you up on it and give them an alternative approach that gives them more freedom, better understanding, and doesn’t involve giving them arbitrary cutoff points like “SeRiOuS ArBiTrAtIoN play”, as if the only way they need to play is cookie clicker

Edited January 24 by Merkranire

[SneakyErvin]

On 2024-01-24 at 9:37 PM, Merkranire said:

Ervin, your narrow ideas of how to build and play are only doing harm instead of any good. You do not lecture me on what a build is supposed to do and be.

I give up, and you can rot with your limited views. Again, if I see you spouting this garbage to someone else, I’m going to pull you up on it and give them an alternative approach that gives them more freedom, better understanding, and doesn’t involve giving them arbitrary cutoff points like “SeRiOuS ArBiTrAtIoN play”, as if the only way they need to play is cookie clicker

It isnt narrow. There must be a purpose to a build, otherwise it is kinda hard to consider it a build.

Oh no I'm shakin' in my pixelated boots! I better watch it so I dont get myself reprimanded by you, because that would completely ruin my world. Serious arbitration play is also not some arbitrary cutoff point, since arbitrations are designed a certain way which means that leaving early is a really bad approach to the mode. Not to mention that certain rewards are locked off behind certain rotations just like everywhere else. So if you have a "build" that can last the first 5 minutes of survival etc. but you need a rota B or C reward the build doesnt serve a purpose. And if you need rota A you have a 50-55 minute downtime between attempts if you cant clear more than 1 or 2 rota A with the build. Not to mention if you jump into a group everyone else might also suffer from you not being able to go longer due to the timed rules of arbitrations.

Or are you not required to be a considerate player when you group with others? Is that something that only applies for others towards you? I mean you brought that up in the AoE thread. Guess things dont go both ways for you.

Also it is "cookie cutter".