Nuke Builds Are Ruining Gameplay Enjoyment

[ZantenZan]

8 hours ago, Merkranire said:

I think you imagine correctly, though this has been going on for days as well so I can’t quite be certain that there’s not some alternative arguments that went on; would need to double-check to confirm how many threads were explored

 

Hmm, yeah. That was some alternative descriptions for the two sides I’ve wondered about as well, because you’re not wrong about how grindy the game can get; it’s quite good about sort of teasing out even more rewards just from using the stuff we got and playing at a reasonable rate, but when it comes to things like Eidolons, the experience is a little less open to alternative playstyles than your standard missions. Personally I do find the day/night cycle a thing to guide me when I’m not sure what I want to do next, but it’ll be a while before I got all the Arcanes, which I’m fine with but sometimes I just want to do a quick run in a short amount of time. I think that defaulting it to farming to prevent farmers accidentally entering a group trying to have some gameplay is a clever idea, though I worry about the implied message that the game’s not meant to be experienced, but that’s kind of uncertainty talking and I’d like to see tests or something to get a true sense.

I don’t want to remove the grind-fast options, partly because those options are mine to use as well and I use them just fine, partly because it’s often just the result of merely building for higher-level and taking it lower; just remove the conflict that arises when two players are so at odds with each other that they’re not even playing the same game despite being in the same mission. Ultimately, two filter options seems too simple to work, but I figure we need to leave some room for our personal judgement to come into play, and if it can be reduced to two filter options, fantastic

Just two filters could be too simple to address it, was speaking more to the spirit of it than anything, i.e. what mindsets should be separated in this case. After all, there's also the matter of high-damage players who might want to avoid getting matched up with inadequately kitted players for things like Netracells or Archon hunts, and maybe there's some matchmaking option to help at least reduce that risk. I personally don't mind carrying someone through a Netracell, Archon hunt, etc, but the ones who may not even bring enough survivability to stay alive tend to make it a notably more stressful experience for me. :P Making a matchmaking system too complicated risks having too many partitioned 'cells,' and I think that Recruiting chat is still a valid route if someone wants to put together something super specific, like a Khora or Hydroid wanting to set up a limited kill box item farm and avoid map nukers.

5 hours ago, Tsukinoki said:

Ok, and what would be locked behind this mode to force people to run it?

After all no rewards, and next to no one would bother to run it because why?  Why sacrifice any and all build diversity and theory crafting and anything else becaus eyou'll be slapped with a build where if you figure out any way to do better than the baseline they'll just nerf it?

And depending on what rewards you slap behind it now you're forcing people to engage with the system in order to get the rewards, regardless of whether they want to or not.

 

It's the same issue with people complaining that they are "forced" to do steel path for some rewards in the game.

Lock something exclusive behind it?  You're now forced to do it.
Don't do that?  And the mode is essentially dead on arrival with so few people playing it you can't get a match going.

You're absolutely right, such a game mode could end up landing with all the enthusiasm and engagement of, well, a bunch of other game modes that have already been released, meaning worst case scenario we have one more to add to the pile. At the very least it would presumably need less design work and special assets/coding than something like Railjack, which literally implemented a 'Matchmake With Any Mission On Planet' button to try and help address faltering population levels and STILL ends up with empty planets. End of the day, if it's released alongside regular Star Map and nobody wants to do it, then... I guess that's that, then? At least it's there, and doesn't limit options for those sticking to regular Star Map.

Still, maybe an optional 'Low Key Mode' would draw some interest, even if just for a sense of early game nostalgia. Maybe not.

I will say, as much as I adore running Steel Path now, I do get why it seems to be the red headed stepchild for some people; even when someone puts together a build that can arguably play Steel Path, it can still feel like a bit of a spongey slog unless/until you put together something that can cut through them as quickly as a standard kit cuts through standard mobs. My first weapon for Steel Path was a Kuva Nukor, and initially I didn't have things like Cascadia Flare and such slapped onto it, so killing armored mooks was a big ol' game of 'Hold The Laser Pointer Of Doom On Them.' It was functional, it definitely wasn't fun.

Now I have a build that can tear through Steel Path, but with the added edge of danger that comes from being just a little too squishy and needing to close to melee range. I'm actually having more fun with Steel Path Survival than I've had with Survival itself in ages. A lot of people might not like it, but I'd personally be really irritated if Steel Path was somehow taken away, or my Kullervo Dual Ichor Incarnon status nuker for that matter. :P Like chocolate and peanut butter.

[Merkranire]

5 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Yet you uhm ended up straight up lying about using a certain build for arbitrations. Wouldnt someone that knows how to build in a considerate fashion mention real builds? So it's kinda hard to take you seriously when you claim you are left with nothing to do in missions when several of us never experience that, even if we dont hog all the kills when we play.

And what is "playing alongside" to you? Full on SWAT formation, hand on shoulder, target by target, room to room as a tight group of 4? Or is it the old Knee by knee in narrow closed lines marching as one until you see the whites in the eyes of the enemy?

That was sarcasm, Ervin and @darklord122. I didn’t lie, but you don’t believe me anyways so my hands are kind of tied. I’m still making and using that build and taking advantage of the free slots, and then breaking it down and rebuilding in different ways, you’re so out of touch with this game you can’t even roughly guesstimate where that base build sits (here’s a hint; I’ve taken it to Arbitrations)

Edited February 9 by Merkranire

[Merkranire]

4 hours ago, ZantenZan said:

Just two filters could be too simple to address it, was speaking more to the spirit of it than anything, i.e. what mindsets should be separated in this case. After all, there's also the matter of high-damage players who might want to avoid getting matched up with inadequately kitted players for things like Netracells or Archon hunts, and maybe there's some matchmaking option to help at least reduce that risk. I personally don't mind carrying someone through a Netracell, Archon hunt, etc, but the ones who may not even bring enough survivability to stay alive tend to make it a notably more stressful experience for me. :P Making a matchmaking system too complicated risks having too many partitioned 'cells,' and I think that Recruiting chat is still a valid route if someone wants to put together something super specific, like a Khora or Hydroid wanting to set up a limited kill box item farm and avoid map nukers.

I don’t think it’d be so confusing for the high-damage players in Netracells or Archon hunts to pick the “Not built for the content” side; if they’re one-shotting everything with ease, I wouldn’t expect that to be built for the content.

Facing death isn’t some kind of boogeyman, if someone didn’t bring enough survivability to stand around eating bullets, they could just not be moving or playing well, which just means they need practice that they’re not going to get if someone steamrolls the fight (yes I know Solo exists, you don’t need to remind me, that’s not necessarily the point).

I agree that matchmaking being too complicated runs into all sorts of problems, but it doesn’t have to be a complicated system if it can avoid it, nor does it need to be as specific as you’re imagining recruiting chat to be; just jump into Multiplayer and expect to meet other players also built for the content, where however they’re built, the squad is roughly on the same level.

Since that’s easily the biggest problem, we’re not all built for the same level whether by choice or by not being able to overbuild, the important thing is that the content gets a chance to be content while we get a chance to use builds we normally wouldn’t be able to use

Edited February 9 by Merkranire

[(PSN)poloslash18]

I've been lurking this topic for a few days and today I jumped to a Lith Exterminate on Earth (Normal SC) and found this absolute unit. Of course, Thermal Sunder was subsumed. That will show those level 6 enemies! Sure, the mission was over in under 2 minutes but I joined just to extract lol. 

 

I don't care what you bring to a mission but being this meta is funny asf. 

[Nira]

 

7 hours ago, (PSN)poloslash18 said:

I've been lurking this topic for a few days and today I jumped to a Lith Exterminate on Earth (Normal SC) and found this absolute unit. Of course, Thermal Sunder was subsumed. That will show those level 6 enemies! Sure, the mission was over in under 2 minutes but I joined just to extract lol. 

 

I don't care what you bring to a mission but being this meta is funny asf. 

Lol, reminds me of the days when all you'd see is "Bramma Nukor".

I tried subsuming Airburst on Titania as a side note. Disappointingly the augment doesn't work with her pistols, and the animation while in dinky form is uh... well try it, it's kinda funny 😆

[SneakyErvin]

17 hours ago, Merkranire said:

That was sarcasm, Ervin and @darklord122. I didn’t lie, but you don’t believe me anyways so my hands are kind of tied. I’m still making and using that build and taking advantage of the free slots, and then breaking it down and rebuilding in different ways, you’re so out of touch with this game you can’t even roughly guesstimate where that base build sits (here’s a hint; I’ve taken it to Arbitrations)

But then you should have no problem to tell us how it performed in those arbitrations, nor which arbitration type you ran and which enemies you were up against.

You should likely also consider one other thing in your entitled mind. People spend currency on this game with real monetary value, some of it tied to an objective start and end date. Do you honestly think your subjective idea of fun should impact how much people get out of their time and cash related purchases? Even if we just consider time overall, do you honestly think that your subjective idea of fun should impact the literal lifetime of others?

You might enjoy getting less out of each second spent in life, most others will not share that view and shouldnt follow those ideas either in that case. Some people also dont have time to literally waste when they sit down to play, since the time they can spend on playing might be very limited due to real life. Yet you sit, completely full of yourself to the point you might burst, and think people should respect your extremely time inefficient view on "fun". I think you are the embodyment or avatar of egotism.

[Merkranire]

6 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

But then you should have no problem to tell us how it performed in those arbitrations, nor which arbitration type you ran and which enemies you were up against.

You should likely also consider one other thing in your entitled mind. People spend currency on this game with real monetary value, some of it tied to an objective start and end date. Do you honestly think your subjective idea of fun should impact how much people get out of their time and cash related purchases? Even if we just consider time overall, do you honestly think that your subjective idea of fun should impact the literal lifetime of others?

You might enjoy getting less out of each second spent in life, most others will not share that view and shouldnt follow those ideas either in that case. Some people also dont have time to literally waste when they sit down to play, since the time they can spend on playing might be very limited due to real life. Yet you sit, completely full of yourself to the point you might burst, and think people should respect your extremely time inefficient view on "fun". I think you are the embodyment or avatar of egotism.

And you could just jump into Simulacrum or Arbitrations, shoot some bad guys, and see for yourself.

This is verifiable; go verify it. The rest of the kit hasn’t been chosen so, y’know, take your pick and start from the modless base (because a secondary built for Steel Path is going to, y’know, skew things a teensy bit) to figure out what gear and builds you think might compliment it.

 

And that money argument applies to me too, you selfish [moderated word]! I give zero #*!%s what you do in solo, but I’m trying to use the stuff I bought too, and when I’m trying to use it in multiplayer looking to play alongside someone else instead of fighting over scraps and your selfish ass is rendering me obsolete, I’m gonna get a little pissed, yeah??

 

Your belief that I’m actively jumping into a game to not enjoy it is frankly incredibly shocking, and it must be you projecting because I’m sitting here going “Wtf are you talking about?? I don’t boot up a game to not enjoy it”. I don’t have huge amounts of time to play either, so when I do, I want to play, not sit around twiddling my thumbs while you think you’re saving me from myself. That’s why I stick to solo, despite my wanting to play alongside someone else, because if that someone else is you, you’re not interested in anything other than throwing some scraps of gameplay because yyyyyyuoooooooouuuuuu are the one calling the shots and have to either stop doing stuff or rely on accidental consideration!! And I don’t want you to have to do that either, but you keep bringing builds not remotely designed for the content!

Edited February 10 by Merkranire

[darklord122]

5 minutes ago, Merkranire said:

And you could just jump into Simulacrum or Arbitrations, shoot some bad guys, and see for yourself.

This is verifiable; go verify it. The rest of the kit hasn’t been chosen so, y’know, take your pick and start from the modless base (because a secondary built for Steel Path is going to, y’know, skew things a teensy bit) to figure out what gear and builds you think might compliment it.

 

And that money argument applies to me too, you selfish [moderated word]! I give zero #*!%s what you do in solo, but I’m trying to use the stuff I bought too, and when I’m trying to use it in multiplayer looking to play alongside someone else instead of fighting over scraps and your selfish ass is rendering me obsolete, I’m gonna get a little pissed, yeah??

 

Your belief that I’m actively jumping into a game to not enjoy it is frankly incredibly shocking, and it must be you projecting because I’m sitting here going “Wtf are you talking about?? I don’t boot up a game to not enjoy it”. I don’t have huge amounts of time to play either, so when I do, I want to play, not sit around twiddling my thumbs while you think you’re saving me from myself. That’s why I stick to solo, despite my wanting to play alongside someone else, because if that someone else is you, you’re not interested in anything other than throwing some scraps of gameplay!

My guy actively avoided proving it and said "test the build yourself" outside of the asked mode. Lmao.

[Merkranire]

2 minutes ago, darklord122 said:

My guy actively avoided proving it and said "test the build yourself" outside of the asked mode. Lmao.

What? I said Arbitrations

[darklord122]

8 minutes ago, Merkranire said:

What? I said Arbitrations

Simulacrum or Arbitrations, Simulacrum wont prove your point as that was not the mode you provided nor what was asked of you and you cant even be asked to prove it yourself.

No wonder people cant take your word for anything.

Edited February 10 by darklord122

[Merkranire]

1 hour ago, darklord122 said:

Simulacrum or Arbitrations, Simulacrum wont prove your point as that was not the mode you provided nor what was asked of you and you cant even be asked to prove it yourself.

No wonder people cant take your word for anything.

Sigh.

I mean, if you’re fine with facing death in a less-controlled environment, go Arbitrations. I’d actually recommend doing that with the rest of your kit at absolute modless baseline, so that when you make a single change to kit or build or gameplay, it’s measurable and you can see the effect; Simulacrum is always the place to go just to get a feel for a thing before jumping into the field, anyways.

But you (and Ervin) don’t strike me as someone who just jumps into the deep end to test something and make adjustments

Edited February 10 by Merkranire

[(PSN)AyinDygra]

1 hour ago, Merkranire said:

And that money argument applies to me too, you selfish [moderated word]! I give zero #*!%s what you do in solo, but I’m trying to use the stuff I bought too, and when I’m trying to use it in multiplayer looking to play alongside someone else instead of fighting over scraps and your selfish ass is rendering me obsolete, I’m gonna get a little pissed, yeah??

I'm just going to point this out, because you obviously missed the point because it wasn't spelled out for you precisely:

7 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

People spend currency on this game with real monetary value, some of it tied to an objective start and end date. Do you honestly think your subjective idea of fun should impact how much people get out of their time and cash related purchases? Even if we just consider time overall, do you honestly think that your subjective idea of fun should impact the literal lifetime of others?

relates to purchases such as Boosters, which have limited periods of time while they're active. The more missions you can cram into the time while they're active, the more value you get out of them. Your subjective idea of fun is objectively going slower in missions such as Extermination, building "to the level of the content" so that content is still challenging to some extent, or requires teamwork... which would be FAR slower than running it like most PUGs would run it. This means, your subjective idea of fun would impact the time and cash related purchases of other players negatively... there is NO wiggle room to that conclusion.

Even if people aren't spending their money on boosters, your subjective idea of fun is wasting the time of people who want to accomplish as much as they can in the short amount of time they are playing the game. Your subjective idea of fun is not providing a corresponding increase in rewards at the end of mission screen. It is objectively negatively impacting everyone else in your PUG that doesn't share your subjective view of fun.

[Aruquae]

Day 5 of waiting for this thread to get locked for being long off topic

[(PSN)AyinDygra]

3 minutes ago, Aruquae said:

for being long off topic

?

This is still very much on topic... and being approached from nearly every angle possible...

It's not going to result in anyone on either side changing their minds about what they think is fun, and how they continue to act in the game, but at least the issues will be clarified.

Now, if the Devs come along, and read this to get the playerbase perspective on how they view the fun of the game, and the impact of nuke builds on our fun... at least it won't be a one-sided complaint thread that nuke builds are bad... they'll see that a large group of PUG players LIKE the nuke frames doing what they're doing. It's not an objectively bad way to play the game that is always hurting the enjoyment of the rest of the players in those PUG groups.

[darklord122]

31 minutes ago, Merkranire said:

Sigh.

I mean, if you’re fine with facing death in a less-controlled environment, go Arbitrations. I’d actually recommend doing that with the rest of your kit at absolute modless baseline, so that when you make a single change to kit or build or gameplay, it’s measurable and you can see the effect; Simulacrum is always the place to go just to get a feel for a thing before jumping into the field, anyways.

But you (and Ervin) don’t strike me as someone who just jumps into the deep end to test something and make adjustments

You are still dodging it btw. You want people to believe you then show the receipts.

[Merkranire]

7 minutes ago, (PSN)AyinDygra said:

I'm just going to point this out, because you obviously missed the point because it wasn't spelled out for you precisely:

relates to purchases such as Boosters, which have limited periods of time while they're active. The more missions you can cram into the time while they're active, the more value you get out of them. Your subjective idea of fun is objectively going slower in missions such as Extermination, building "to the level of the content" so that content is still challenging to some extent, or requires teamwork... which would be FAR slower than running it like most PUGs would run it. This means, your subjective idea of fun would impact the time and cash related purchases of other players negatively... there is NO wiggle room to that conclusion.

Even if people aren't spending their money on boosters, your subjective idea of fun is wasting the time of people who want to accomplish as much as they can in the short amount of time they are playing the game. Your subjective idea of fun is not providing a corresponding increase in rewards at the end of mission screen. It is objectively negatively impacting everyone else in your PUG that doesn't share your subjective view of fun.

Fine, I’ll concede on that point about booster time. I thought he was talking about purchased Warframes or something.

And it would not be a problem if there was a filter separating farmers from non-farmers, because not everyone is treating multiplayer as a necessary evil that only gets jumped into to farm even faster for things. And that was a point brought up long ago; just in general farmers and players are stepping on each other’s toes, and boosters are merely an extension of that with a monetary value attached. And you’re not even being slowed down that much anyways because you guys are calling the shots because of how you’re built and where you take it! So while you may want to bring boosters into the mix to make a point, your point is shallow almost to the point of being unnecessary; I don’t want to waste your time when I play nice and try to mission complete ASAP if I haven’t dropped out, but you’re certainly not thinking of me when you waste mine by hogging all the game

[Aruquae]

7 minutes ago, (PSN)AyinDygra said:

?

This is still very much on topic... and being approached from nearly every angle possible...

It's not going to result in anyone on either side changing their minds about what they think is fun, and how they continue to act in the game, but at least the issues will be clarified.

Now, if the Devs come along, and read this to get the playerbase perspective on how they view the fun of the game, and the impact of nuke builds on our fun... at least it won't be a one-sided complaint thread that nuke builds are bad... they'll see that a large group of PUG players LIKE the nuke frames doing what they're doing. It's not an objectively bad way to play the game that is always hurting the enjoyment of the rest of the players in those PUG groups.

Hmmm... it seems is used to be Nuke Builds disrupting players, then it switched to big numbers are triggering for some. Then it switched to arbitrations for some reason
We're slowly derailing this lovely thread

[Merkranire]

1 minute ago, darklord122 said:

You are still dodging it btw. You want people to believe you then show the receipts.

You can go do the shopping yourself and see.

You’re so lacking in fundamental basics like why Arbitrations and Simulacrum are two different options that can still help see the point that trying to explain things to you would be akin to a deep-dive on fundamental game mechanics, and every step of the way you’ll be trying to undermine my points and my patience because you’re not even trying to listen because you’ve already got it all figured out while I’m just being irrational. That’s why I gave up, the task simply was too daunting for an outcome that you can say “We can agree to disagree” while you jump into my missions and sideline me

[(PSN)AyinDygra]

I want you to be able to have fun.
I understand what you want out of the game.
I'm just saying that it's not the way the majority of players in PUGs expect to play; demonstrably, because you have this experience so often that it has caused you to post a complaint thread about it.

Your solutions boil down to:
* to have everyone out there who enters PUGs become mind readers and pre-build their characters to either fit your specifications if they know they'll be with someone like you, or build to their peak power for speed of farming like nearly everyone else in PUG groups (especially relics, where I'd say most PUG groups happen.)
or
* to have the devs implement a filter so people can select "Farming or Playing" (which still won't filter all of these people out, because to many farmers, THAT IS what playing the game means to them.)
or
* to have the devs nerf nuke frames, so they CAN'T kill as fast, thus, they wouldn't be able to negatively impact your personal subjective fun while playing PUG missions, AND their SOLO play, which the nerf won't distinguish between, because it will universally impact everyone.

While everyone else here in this thread is proposing the solution that already exists in the game, but you don't think you have to consider:
* form your own parties from recruit chat or clan, with players who also share your subjective opinion of fun.

I'm trying to see how you think your solution(s) is(are) better or more reasonable than the last option.

[darklord122]

11 minutes ago, Merkranire said:

You can go do the shopping yourself and see.

You’re so lacking in fundamental basics like why Arbitrations and Simulacrum are two different options that can still help see the point that trying to explain things to you would be akin to a deep-dive on fundamental game mechanics, and every step of the way you’ll be trying to undermine my points and my patience because you’re not even trying to listen because you’ve already got it all figured out while I’m just being irrational. That’s why I gave up, the task simply was too daunting for an outcome that you can say “We can agree to disagree” while you jump into my missions and sideline me

Im not lacking anything in how they are to fundamentally different options.

However you have been asked to prove that your playstyle is so amazing and fair as you claim and actually put your money where your mouth is in terms of proving that your builds hold up in Arbitrations like its been asked because you still claim your 3 mod set up is viable yet all you do is dodge it and hide behind "sarcasm" or claim that you have to explain fundamental game mechanics, The simulacrum was never asked of you and we would rather see actual progress in an arbitration to show the validity of your claim as you so easily say one can handle it, Well prove it then?.

You have been given every opportunity to prove you aren't irrational but your erratic behavior just shows otherwise.

We can always agree to disagree, But you just keep going either way and try and prove a point on a build that you can't even prove works unless you have other people do it for you.

The mental gymnastics you go through to avoid showing what you claim is amazing.

And then you wonder why people doubt what you say especially after the added "sarcasm" from earlier.

Edited February 10 by darklord122

[Merkranire]

8 minutes ago, darklord122 said:

Im not lacking anything in how they are to fundamentally different options.

However you have been asked to prove that your playstyle is so amazing and fair as you claim and actually put your money where your mouth is in terms of proving that your builds hold up in Arbitrations like its been asked because you still claim your 3 mod set up is viable yet all you do is dodge it and hide behind "sarcasm" or claim that you have to explain fundamental game mechanics, The simulacrum was never asked of you and we would rather see actual progress in an arbitration to show the validity of your claim as you so easily say one can handle it, Well prove it then?.

You have been given every opportunity to prove you aren't irrational but your erratic behavior just shows otherwise.

We can always agree to disagree, But you just keep going either way and try and prove a point on a build that you can't even prove works unless you have other people do it for you.

The mental gymnastics you go through to avoid showing what you claim is amazing.

And then you wonder why people doubt what you say especially after the added "sarcasm" from earlier.

You can either verify it for yourself or not. You’re not even trying to view it as a viable alternative, so you’re free to call it what you will, but when you start shooting bad guys, you’ll be able to see how they don’t instantly die but they still die at a fine rate, and from that extrapolate how there is gameplay that could happen that you and your honking great builds are sidelining

[Merkranire]

18 minutes ago, (PSN)AyinDygra said:

I want you to be able to have fun.
I understand what you want out of the game.
I'm just saying that it's not the way the majority of players in PUGs expect to play; demonstrably, because you have this experience so often that it has caused you to post a complaint thread about it.

Your solutions boil down to:
* to have everyone out there who enters PUGs become mind readers and pre-build their characters to either fit your specifications if they know they'll be with someone like you, or build to their peak power for speed of farming like nearly everyone else in PUG groups (especially relics, where I'd say most PUG groups happen.)
or
* to have the devs implement a filter so people can select "Farming or Playing" (which still won't filter all of these people out, because to many farmers, THAT IS what playing the game means to them.)
or
* to have the devs nerf nuke frames, so they CAN'T kill as fast, thus, they wouldn't be able to negatively impact your personal subjective fun while playing PUG missions, AND their SOLO play, which the nerf won't distinguish between, because it will universally impact everyone.

While everyone else here in this thread is proposing the solution that already exists in the game, but you don't think you have to consider:
* form your own parties from recruit chat or clan, with players who also share your subjective opinion of fun.

I'm trying to see how you think your solution(s) is(are) better or more reasonable than the last option.

My solution is “Know what you’re built for”. You don’t have to know what your teammates are built for, but it’s not rocket surgery to understand that if you’re built for the content, then the odds of accidentally sidelining someone are drastically reduced.

With the added benefit that when DE introduce something new, if you understand what you’re built for around it, you can experience the new thing as they intended. This is not just a subjective thing, there’s an objective expectation that the developers had in mind, and all that happens at the moment without consideration for how anyone’s built is that the new stuff gets obliterated before it has a chance to be experienced, regardless of solo or multiplayer, and all those opportunities for alternative builds get sidelined too even in solo, nevermind other players

edit: Plus, once the intended way to play has been identified, then we can talk balance!

Edited February 10 by Merkranire

[darklord122]

12 minutes ago, Merkranire said:

You can either verify it for yourself or not. You’re not even trying to view it as a viable alternative, so you’re free to call it what you will, but when you start shooting bad guys, you’ll be able to see how they don’t instantly die but they still die at a fine rate, and from that extrapolate how there is gameplay that could happen that you and your honking great builds are sidelining

Its a viable alternative however it was asked of you not us.

So feel free to keep yapping on how great your build is yet do nothing to prove anything about it. People sure love slugging away at enemies for 40 times longer then needed. So great indeed.

No way its not viable in Arbitrations nooo. Merk is said it works so it must do so. With 3 mods no less wow.

"Know what you are build for" My guy you don't even know what you are built for it seems.

People don't have to do your work for you sorry to say. Validate it yourself or don't.

Edited February 10 by darklord122

[Merkranire]

5 minutes ago, darklord122 said:

Its a viable alternative however it was asked of you not us.

So feel free to keep yapping on how great your build is yet do nothing to prove anything about it. People sure love slugging away at enemies for 40 times longer then needed. So great indeed.

No way its not viable in Arbitrations nooo. Merk is said it works so it must do so. With 3 mods no less wow.

People don't have to do your work for you sorry to say. Validate it yourself or don't.

You really should try it. The Argonak’s just there in the Dojo, I assume you have the mods, that build should fit on the Argonak while unpotatoed since I designed it to be accessible and understandable and straightforward. You try the build, see what it does, think what you’d use those free slots for, identify that if you were to start throwing damage mods on then you start building higher while taking up mod slots and capacity and maybe you don’t even need more damage depending on how far you go so you start looking to other mods; the Argonak’s a versatile weapon that takes well to a variety of mods

Edited February 10 by Merkranire

[darklord122]

3 minutes ago, Merkranire said:

You really should try it. The Argonak’s just there in the Dojo, I assume you have the mods, that build should fit on the Argonak while unpotatoed since I designed it to be accessible and understandable and straightforward. You try the build, see what it does, think what you’d use those free slots for, identify that if you were to start throwing damage mods on then you start building higher while taking up mod slots and capacity and maybe you don’t even need more damage depending on how far you go so you start looking to other mods; the Argonak’s a versatile weapon that takes well to a variety of mods

You'll do anything but prove yourself huh?

Alright then.