Is it time for Primed Rush?

[Tiltskillet]

15 minutes ago, quxier said:

Sprinting (run > roll & stop running) does have effect on roll distance (from ~11 to ~15, when rolling at ~2m mark).

Not sure if this is what you're saying, but I find it easiest to control the test by starting stopped but with sprint toggled, pressing roll, pressing forward during the roll and releasing before the roll is finished.  Won't get the same distance every time, but it keeps the starting spot the same.

Base sprint speed seems to have a bigger impact than modded sprint speed.  And Amalgam Barrel Diffusion seems to reduce the differences, contrary to what I would think. 

35 minutes ago, quxier said:

Speed increase (e.g. Rush) make frames move farther, however I wonder if it's still roll or something else. Have someone tested it (e.g. does this part has 75% damage reduction as well)?

With sprint toggled on and without releasing the forward button, I still get the dodge DR during the roll.

[PR1D3]

5 hours ago, Ace-Bounty-Hunter said:

If you're maining Gauss or any other frame that has some kind of immunity to knockdowns, then yeah, no duh PSF is not useful. But for every other frame that doesn't have that luxury (Which is most of them), it's pretty much mandatory. Unless you get some kind of sick enjoyment out of being knocked onto your ass every time you shoot your Kuva Zarr. And don't tell me to waste my subsume putting a status immunity ability on my frame when I can just use my exilus slot to serve that function. 

And I'm getting hostile because I'm tired of people in this community constantly trying to mislead other players with false information. Try looking at the wiki for once.

Holy crap, I nearly peed my pants from laughing so hard at this. Where to even start? The belief that PSF is a "mandatory" mod, the assumption that we're raw dogging AOE weapons/explosions like he is or saying that other people are the ones leading people astray with bad information. One of DE's greatest mistakes was the removal of Self Damage from this game. They removed the biggest balancing aspect to AOE weapons, PSF kills off the last bit of potential "failure" that the player could have and it's no wonder how they ended up dominating the usage rates of low skill, lazy players.

[Ace-Bounty-Hunter]

1 hour ago, PR1D3 said:

Holy crap, I nearly peed my pants from laughing so hard at this. Where to even start? The belief that PSF is a "mandatory" mod, the assumption that we're raw dogging AOE weapons/explosions like he is or saying that other people are the ones leading people astray with bad information. One of DE's greatest mistakes was the removal of Self Damage from this game. They removed the biggest balancing aspect to AOE weapons, PSF kills off the last bit of potential "failure" that the player could have and it's no wonder how they ended up dominating the usage rates of low skill, lazy players.

I say PSF is mandatory because it helps circumvent another of DE's poor design decisions. Regardless of your stance on it, self damage was always a terrible mechanic. Especially when power creep started to set in because you could literally one shot yourself, no matter how careful you are (Companion or squad mate decides to photobomb you while trying to take your shot). So that was thrown into the dumpster where it belongs and replaced with self stagger/knockdowns which are arguably just as bad since they leave you as a sitting duck if you ever get unlucky. And that's discounting the number of enemies that have annoying asf knockdown mechanics built into their kits (Heavy Gunners. Scorpions. Blitz and Arson Eximus, Ancients, etc etc) which are usually hard to see amongst the hoards of enemies that spawn in Steel Path endurance missions. 

So, until DE removes or reworks knockdowns from being the aggravating mechanic it is, PSF will always be a mandatory slot in my builds (with the exception of the frames that have the ability to resist/negate it). Just like how Decaying Dragon Key was until they made Shield Gating actually good. So I suggest you cease your derisive laughter, because I'm just sitting here shaking my head at how utterly clueless you all are.

Edited January 23 by Ace-Bounty-Hunter

[Nira]

I'd rather have a Primed Toxin Resistance. Going outside the box with a primed aura mod 😎

Or just improve the base stats on the element resist mods.

[Hexerin]

10 hours ago, Ace-Bounty-Hunter said:

I say PSF is mandatory

PSF is a crutch, full stop.

[Xzorn]

12 hours ago, quxier said:

Sprinting (run > roll & stop running) does have effect on roll distance (from ~11 to ~15, when rolling at ~2m mark).

Speed increase (e.g. Rush) make frames move farther, however I wonder if it's still roll or something else. Have someone tested it (e.g. does this part has 75% damage reduction as well)?

 

I tested it back in 2016.

The interaction of sprint speed increasing roll distance is because roll is a set animation time unless altered like Mirage.
The momentum of a roll is a product of your current speed. Thus when you roll the dodge goes further and proportionately faster.

And yes, because it's a set animation, it's a set window of mitigation. It's why Amalgam Barrel Diffusion is actually a bad thing. I made a post about it.

My testing method was both via markers and recording races with a timer between different loadouts. I still have the videos but they're very poor quality.

[Xzorn]

AoE Self Damage was really only an issue in pubs with players walking in front of you.

The underline problem was disproportionate damage output vs intake. Even so I feel like they doubled up on it with both no-Self Damage and Shield Gating. Before both I survived my own self damage many times by dodge rolling. Now it's gotten stupid where things like Opticor, Inarnon Braton/Burston, Laetum and similar have self stagger when they don't deserve it. I've never ranked Primed Sure Footed but it's more a matter of pride just like I don't run defense mods on Invis frames.

Don't screw up and you don't need it kinda deal.

[Ace-Bounty-Hunter]

2 hours ago, Hexerin said:

PSF is a crutch, full stop.

Yes. A crutch against bad game design.

29 minutes ago, Xzorn said:

Don't screw up and you don't need it kinda deal.

No amount of cautiousness will ever prevent an Arson Eximus from spawning right behind you and knocking you flat on your face with an instant cast untelegraphed blast wave. No human being can realistically react to BS like that. Screw your pride.

Edited January 24 by Ace-Bounty-Hunter

[(PSN)phux0v]

20 hours ago, Ace-Bounty-Hunter said:

No, you two are the ones who are clearly misunderstanding here. Enemies are much less likely to hit you while you are airborne instead of on the ground. Also, most frames that are even remotely serious about surviving in missions will usually equip Rolling Guard. Do you know what stat increases the distance that you roll? Parkour Velocity. Not Sprint speed. 

Tell me you don't know how to play Warframe without telling me you don't know how to play Warframe...

Welp. Now I'm definitely convinced that you don't know what you're talking about. 

Enemies are much less likely to hit you in the air and while using parkour. Yes. I literally said that. But rolling guard is a nice qol option, NOT a necessity. A normal parkour dodge will reduce enemy accuracy, shrug damage, and grant you more control over your range in relation to the enemies effective range. 

BUT... if you had read my post you'd have seen that I wasn't quoting you. I was having trouble with the forum I.e. it's putting quotes for people I wasn't quoting. I have no idea who's going to be quoted above, so for anyone who reads this, I'm responding to @ace-bounty-hunter

I WAS agreeing initially, until you called rolling guard a necessity 

tell me you can't sp unmod without telling me you can't sp unmod?

[(PSN)phux0v]

22 hours ago, Qorvex99 said:

I think What @Ace-Bounty-Hunter is missing here and many other people is the different methods available to play, and survive in Warframe.

Yes Parkour velocity is superior, but sometimes too much Parkour causes you to launch too high or too far into the air without a comfortable way to cancel your momentum...last time I had a lot of parkour velocity the only way I could stop was by equipping a melee and slam, or slide, and both aren't perfect stops.

Sprint speed is controllable, because unless you're hopping everywhere you can stop whenever.
Nezha benefits from sprint speed mods more than parkour because his slide blends nicely with sprinting.
Revenant's 3 is affected by Sprint speed.
Gauss and Volt of course, Grendel's meatball form, Loki, Ash, Wisp...you see it's relevant to the right Warframe.

 

and really, with the amount of status immunity abilities, and passives that we can have and/or subsume, Primed sure footed can almost be considered a meme as well...most exilus mods are "memes" anyway, they're minor stat boosts for mundane things. you almost never need them.

This is why I say GO PLAY CONCLAVE. If you don't know how to airbrake, you'll learn. First learn to stack momentum though.

Whether playing against people or bots, controlling enemy range, increasing evasion, and reducing accuracy while using parkour dodges to shrug any attacks you CANT evade(this is basically nothing. You should be evading almost 100% of attacks. Even hitscan weapons suffer reduced accuracy vs high momentum targets and further reduced accuracy vs targets out of range) is critical to any semblance of skilled gameplay. Which unless you're doing TFO unmod, means conclave.

The only arguments I've heard proclaiming the necessity of rolling guard or shieldgating that didn't sound insane were "b-b-but b-b-b-bombards will one shot meeee" and the only response I ever can muster to that is

If a bombard hit you, you deserved to die tbh

Btw so many viable alternatives to psf exist, it's been meme status for years

Edited January 24 by (PSN)phux0v

[Ace-Bounty-Hunter]

13 minutes ago, (PSN)phux0v said:

tell me you can't sp unmod without telling me you can't sp unmod?

I couldn't give a damn that you enjoy purposefully gimping yourself in low level content. If my SP builds function perfectly fine in regular star chart, then why should I change it? I already had to trudge through that stuff years ago as a newbie. The game gives you literally zero incentive to go back to that. 

[(PSN)phux0v]

5 minutes ago, Ace-Bounty-Hunter said:

I couldn't give a damn that you enjoy purposefully gimping yourself in low level content. If my SP builds function perfectly fine in regular star chart, then why should I change it? I already had to trudge through that stuff years ago as a newbie. The game gives you literally zero incentive to go back to that. 

Oh no. That was in response to your "tell me you can't play Warframe without telling me you can't play Warframe" because it's so laughable you said that to someone not only advocating for parkour OVER sprint speed, but also explaining how and why sp is easy even without mods.

But here's tricks: I was agreeing with you at first till you said I obviously don't know how to play, but if you want to go there I don't mind highlighting that I'm already playing at a skill level you consider "gimping" yourself. Sounds like you've used mods as a crutch for too long tbh

Nobody here said anything about regular starchart or low level content. 

You SHOULD NOT be allowing yourself to be hit in LEVEL CAP unless you're TRYING to get killed

Edited January 24 by (PSN)phux0v

[Ace-Bounty-Hunter]

1 minute ago, (PSN)phux0v said:

Sounds like you've used mods as a crutch for too long tbh

I've already spent hundreds of hours playing the game at the bare bones level. Doing the mandatory grinds farming for the parts and resources needed to mod my Warframes to peak efficiency. DE has provided the tools and I will use them how I please. What real reason would I not use them, outside of some deluded sense of pride? 

[(PSN)phux0v]

16 hours ago, quxier said:

Sprinting (run > roll & stop running) does have effect on roll distance (from ~11 to ~15, when rolling at ~2m mark).

Speed increase (e.g. Rush) make frames move farther, however I wonder if it's still roll or something else. Have someone tested it (e.g. does this part has 75% damage reduction as well)?

Rush increases sprint speed. To translate that into more dodge speed, you'll glide cancel and roll using the added momentum. While rolling is when you get the damage reduction. Roll in free fall for a long roll or while aiming for a short roll, and try to only slide while airborne as sliding on ground will be affected by friction effectively negating the speed boost. Speed boost from sliding is also timegated so you can't just immediately slide after a slide: you'll lose momentum. Bullet jumping also reduces momentum so spend as little time in the bullet jump animation as possible. Effectively controlling yourself while airborne is crucial to high level play. When you can move fast enough to make hitscan weapons miss AT LEAST half the time, then most of the rest is just knowing the enemy aimgraphs and controlling range to keep the enemies chance to hit at or below 0%

[(PSN)phux0v]

27 minutes ago, Ace-Bounty-Hunter said:

I've already spent hundreds of hours playing the game at the bare bones level. Doing the mandatory grinds farming for the parts and resources needed to mod my Warframes to peak efficiency. DE has provided the tools and I will use them how I please. What real reason would I not use them, outside of some deluded sense of pride? 

"Mandatory grinds" lol. I feel bad when ppl say things like this, since I never farmed for anything. Just play the game and don't worry about getting everything. Eventually you'll have everything without trying. There are no "mandatory grinds", coming from someone who got everything without farming.

It's perfectly fine to use mods, they're fun and add new ways to play, but we're talking about a game here where the devs have coddled us with mods so much that people use them as a crutch... Some people ONLY use them as a crutch.

Why would you play without mods? Because the game is so easy that there's only 2 ways to engage in skilled play: conclave or unmod. I enjoy skilled play, so... Not judging you, just... Don't call others bad at the game when they blatantly are better players than you, you almost made a few good points then you got bitter and started attacking the ppl that were agreeing with you.

I think you really should step outside, get away from the game and the forums for a while. Go touch grass, get yourself in a more balanced state of mind.

[Xzorn]

1 hour ago, Ace-Bounty-Hunter said:

No amount of cautiousness will ever prevent an Arson Eximus from spawning right behind you and knocking you flat on your face with an instant cast untelegraphed blast wave. No human being can realistically react to BS like that. Screw your pride.

 

I do fine. I'm actually happy they reverted bouncing off the wave and let you go through it again.

They are telegraphed and why would an Arson Eximus spawn behind you? The scuffed spawning is generally only an issue in Circuit.
It's not caution really either. Caution, cover and things like that died back in 2014. It's just twitch mechanics.

I roll a lot. I'm so used to dodging everything, it's why I can't really abuse Shield Gating + Rolling Guard windows.
My dodge button is the same in every game for two decades. I can't stop myself from twitch dodging.

Did they ever even fix Sure Footed to stop playing a block animation instead of just being immune?

[Ace-Bounty-Hunter]

48 minutes ago, (PSN)phux0v said:

"Mandatory grinds" lol. I feel bad when ppl say things like this, since I never farmed for anything.

What the Hek are you talking about? That's literally the whole point of the game. Outside of some Prime Accessories and Tennogen skins, I have mostly gone the F2P route and earned everything (Both Prime and regular) in the game purely through playing it. I've even farmed every available non prime Warframe at least twice just so I could have their subsumes available in the Helminth.

The only conceivable way you have not farmed for anything is if you're still pretty early in progression or you've opened up your wallet and bought everything off the market. In the latter case, I truly pity you.

48 minutes ago, (PSN)phux0v said:

Because the game is so easy that there's only 2 ways to engage in skilled play: conclave or unmod.

No one gives a damn about Conclave. It's a dead game mode for a reason. No one would miss it if DE removed it from the game like they did with Raids. And again, there is no benefit to unmodding. You're just gimping yourself for purely superfluous reasons and being an active hindrance to the rest of your squad if you even think about bringing those barebones loadouts to pub missions.

48 minutes ago, (PSN)phux0v said:

I think you really should step outside, get away from the game and the forums for a while. Go touch grass, get yourself in a more balanced state of mind.

Gladly. I'm sure my front lawn would offer more inciteful and intelligent discussion anyway.

Edited January 24 by Ace-Bounty-Hunter

[Ace-Bounty-Hunter]

19 minutes ago, Xzorn said:

Did they ever even fix Sure Footed to stop playing a block animation instead of just being immune?

Yes and no. In most content it's fixed. Though I've noticed a particular Dax mob in Duviri circuit that launches a long range shockwave that can still stagger you even with PSF equipped. It's very irritating. 

[Aruquae]

1 minute ago, Ace-Bounty-Hunter said:

Yes and no. In most content it's fixed. Though I've noticed a particular Dax mob in Duviri circuit that launches a long range shockwave that can still stagger you even with PSF equipped. It's very irritating. 

Seems PSF only blocks self stagger and weak staggers

Same applies to quick thinking, you still get the stagger from that. The same also applies to Boreal’s summons.

[Fred_Avant_2019]

Wow, this innocent thread somehow spawned some toxicity.

Ngl, kinda cringe. (Not the subject, the people who are making an effort to deviate from it)

 

To be fair, Primed Rush would be nice. We have yet to have another Primed mod to put in the exilus slot of Warframes. But I'd like to point out that there should be more than just Primed Rush that need to be added. Maglev, Mobilize, WARM GOAT. Just kidding on that last one, but the Exilus slot needs something else that has sufficient oomph to justify something else than PSF on frames that don't have a built in kb resist. (Though to be fair, PSF is basically worthless if you're not prone to kb from your own weapons, things that cause it are limited and can be dodged with a roll if timed right and if you have enough attention span)

 

No harm in a new primed mod if it's not that op.

[Aruquae]

1 minute ago, Fred_Avant_2019 said:

Wow, this innocent thread somehow spawned some toxicity.

Ngl, kinda cringe. (Not the subject, the people who are making an effort to deviate from it)

 

To be fair, Primed Rush would be nice. We have yet to have another Primed mod to put in the exilus slot of Warframes. But I'd like to point out that there should be more than just Primed Rush that need to be added. Maglev, Mobilize, WARM GOAT. Just kidding on that last one, but the Exilus slot needs something else that has sufficient oomph to justify something else than PSF on frames that don't have a built in kb resist. (Though to be fair, PSF is basically worthless if you're not prone to kb from your own weapons, things that cause it are limited and can be dodged with a roll if timed right and if you have enough attention span)

 

No harm in a new primed mod if it's not that op.

Welcome to the forums, where every thread eventually deviates from the main topic, then dissolved into a back and fourth from two Tenno. You’ll get used to it

[Prof-Dante]

1 hour ago, Fred_Avant_2019 said:

Ngl, kinda cringe. (Not the subject, the people who are making an effort to deviate from it)

It's ok, the main message of the thread is clear and simple enough. 
I learned my lesson years ago to stop arguing on the forums and actually play the game instead, I still slip up sometimes, but eh...I'm far from perfect.  

Edited January 24 by Qorvex99

[(PSN)phux0v]

2 hours ago, Ace-Bounty-Hunter said:

What the Hek are you talking about? That's literally the whole point of the game. Outside of some Prime Accessories and Tennogen skins, I have mostly gone the F2P route and earned everything (Both Prime and regular) in the game purely through playing it. I've even farmed every available non prime Warframe at least twice just so I could have their subsumes available in the Helminth.

The only conceivable way you have not farmed for anything is if you're still pretty early in progression or you've opened up your wallet and bought everything off the market. In the latter case, I truly pity you.

No one gives a damn about Conclave. It's a dead game mode for a reason. No one would miss it if DE removed it from the game like they did with Raids. And again, there is no benefit to unmodding. You're just gimping yourself for purely superfluous reasons and being an active hindrance to the rest of your squad if you even think about bringing those barebones loadouts to pub missions.

Gladly. I'm sure my front lawn would offer more inciteful and intelligent discussion anyway.

No, I'm going to be lr4 next time I log in because again, as I said, I have everything in the game. Just was waiting for gauss prime to finish building because I am a f2p player and refuse to rush anything. Farming/grinding leads to burnout. If you just played the game and had fun you would likely have a better attitude toward this game.

And no, when I do SP unmod, I do it solo or in groups that are doing the same. Your assumptions aren't my problem any more than your poor reading comprehension is.

Conclave isn't dead, either. We just organize in discord and mostly don't bother the rest of the community. After all, we're only about .5% of the player base, we can't afford to be as toxic as you.

[(PSN)phux0v]

1 hour ago, Aruquae said:

Welcome to the forums, where every thread eventually deviates from the main topic, then dissolved into a back and fourth from two Tenno. You’ll get used to it

I'm sorry for my part in it. I was here to discuss whether primed rush was a good idea and what it's applications could be.. I wasn't trying to have an argument with one particularly aggressive player who I initially was agreeing with. It probably got buried in all the back and forth nonsense, but I did relate how sprint speed mods can be beneficial for high level play (i.e how it would factor into momentum stacking and translate to increased effective evasion)

And I think it could be fun and somewhat useful, as well as some other primed exilus mods that were suggested here

But again, I'm sorry for my part in derailing the topic, that was never my intent 

Edited January 24 by (PSN)phux0v

[Aruquae]

Just now, (PSN)phux0v said:

-snip-

I too am guilty of derailing conversations, such as right now… this has nothing to do with sprint speed. 
So I will have to say something to keep it semi related: Gauss sprint speed should also increase per level