Prime Warframes

[(XBOX)takeoffpope]

This is a QOL change that I hope gets implemented in the future. 

I can’t be the only one that thinks it is extremely annoying and inconvenient to grind for the prime variant of a frame and completely have to start from scratch and go through the process of re-applying forma to mod slots, orokin reactors, arcane adapters, and even exilus adapters shredding through scarce resources and wasting time that could be used to grind and acquire other things. I thought of a way that would eliminate this problem, creating resource efficiency yet keeping the game balanced. Sure there are innate polarity slots but it still doesn’t help clear up the inconvenience. Proceeding to the solution I ask in this change, as an alternative of completely making a new frame when you’re done crafting the prime piece, instead apply the prime bonuses, skin, etc to the pre-existing frame, that way we don’t have to spend extra resources doing what we already did with the composite frame, This would make the most sense because it wouldn’t alter the balance and usage of void relics. For example, I want to get Nekros Prime, and like normal i would have to acquire the required relics, obtain the 4 pieces as usual and finally I am ready to craft Nekros Prime. Instead of having to sell my old Nekros; wasting the resources i’ve used on it and Replace it with the fresh Nekros Prime, it would be more efficient to just “Overwrite” the composite Nekros with the Prime Nekros, while keeping its original polarity slots, orokin reactor upgrade and etc. I’d be fine with having to re level it up like you usually do with a new frame but that part is up to the developers. This proposition also applies to weapons and its prime versions. I hope other tenno would like this change to be implemented, Thank you.

[Birdframe_Prime]

You're not the only one.

However.

This is 'screaming into the void' territory here.

Prime frames are separate from the regular for both Mastery gain and for forcing players to do exactly what you're upset about.

I'm not even kidding.

DE have literally straight-up told us that they want us to grind more Forma, re-level, re-build the Reactor, everything. They outright want us to do that.

The only reason they gave that's not just 'because we want you to' is that this method means that every player starts and continues on with the same status. All players start off with no Relics for the required frame, they have to go farm them, they then have to build, they then have to level and Forma. Everyone is on the same footing, and the only modifiers on it are how fast they can get to the end of that grind (by using Syndicate packs and Medallions to get Relics faster, by having Traded for Plat to get builds Rushed, by having popped an Affinity Booster for the levelling...).

This is, to all intents and purposes, as fair as this system gets. Everyone has to start from scratch, and there are no boosts like 'I already have the base frame, so I can just overwrite it with the parts'.

Other than just... buying a Prime Access... there's an equivalent experience for everyone.

And that's not even touching on the topic of Forma investment.

DE have also been on record with the simple statement 'Forma is a cost, not an investment. Investments have a return, costs do not.' You're spending your Forma and Adapters, not investing them into the frame. You get exactly what you pay for; a fully optimised Warframe.

In DE's eyes, the conversation is a non-starter.

Not because it's fair.

Not because it's good.

But because they want you to grind. Or pay. One or the other.

[Binket_]

While on one hand, I can see this as a major QoL improvement.
... on the other, as @Birdframe_Prime put it? DE kinda made it this way intentionally.
To a degree, that is.

Personally, I think the ability to just have a Prime Warframe that's often easier to get than the OG Warframe is silly.
There's a reason everyone is running around with Wukong Primes and Revenant Primes. They're just easier to get, often to a fault.

I firmly believe that a player should at least have the BASE WARFRAME before they can even use the Prime.
Separate from the OG, but requires the OG to have at least existed in their inventory at one point. _{(Can even have a small "coin" item to show that it's unlocked.)}
This is so DE can actually make some decent balance changes without having the player immediately grabbing Revenant to be "cozy". 
^{Which is exceedingly stupid in my opinion. At a certain point, it's less "cozy" and more "I don't wanna try" kinda style. People who won't have fun unless you FORCE them to.}

Take Khora for instance. You can get Khora as soon you unlock the baseline Sanctuary Onslaught. It takes a bit, but you can.
Thanks to her Prime though, you can just farm that instead. People often say her farm sucks though-- and it does!
... but that's not a reason to justify her Prime being so easy to obtain. Rather it's to illustrate how frustrating it was prior.
^{It's caused me numerous headaches because players always jump to spam her 4 immediately without any thought behind it.}

Originally, a "Prime" was seen as a grand novelty. A sign that a person was dedicated. That's why it was so coveted.
Now? It's the norm. In fact, if you see a player using the Base Warframe over a Prime?
Chances are they're actually more respected because they're competent enough to go without the extra boost.

The reason for that inverse expectation is strictly because DE keeps trying to make the game so accessible that there's nothing to do.
A player jumps in and is given a glorified to-do list so they can "catch up". Most of it ending up on "Optional garbage, idk lmao".

The simplest way to introduce this policy is to say:
"Yeah, Primes were too easy to get and caused players to become too powerful too quickly.

We're keeping this MR restriction off, but players are required to have acquired the original Warframe first."

... and than change things like Khora, Ash, Oberon, Trinity etc. to make their farms less obnoxious.
^{(Or just add them to the circuit as usual. I'd argue that's one of the best and easiest way to get most of the Warframes... but not outright abusable because players still need to wait for it to arrive.)}

 

 

Weapons are a no-go though.
They still have MR locks behind them (even if they are silly in some cases) and some function wildly differently.
Examples of such primes being Pyrana Prime, Corinth Prime, Vectis Prime, etc.

So there's still some reason to have these older ones around.
Arguably, I find the Primes that have a mechanical change to the weapon to be the best ones. Since they still allow for a notion of "upgrade" without outright invalidating the prior weapon.

Warframe as a game builds most of it's playtime on just how many arsenal choices are in the game. Be it Warframe, Guns, Melees, etc, etc.
All of them can clear content, with only a few really struggling at all in Steel Path. Hell, I'd argue the only weapon that comes to mind that has ZERO use is the Stug.
Preference exists, absolutely. That's what allows players to be diverse.

 

On the topic of weapon diversity and how it effects Warframe?
I was playing One Step from Eden for a while now _{(because it's a really fun game)} and it also had a similar vibe to it's weapon choices.
You get a choice of 9 characters each with a set gimmick. Each one focusing on a certain aspect of themselves to focus their spells on.
Examples being...

• "Gunner" relying on his weapon to charge his spells, each hit recharges mana.
  • While having no innate mana to cast spells, he can get major use out of normally overlooked spells like "Mana Potion" or "Innervate" which can boost his Mana count up.
  • In addition, "Sleight" is a fairly common spell that is useful on any character, applying any effects they obtain while reloading-- but Gunner uses it especially since one of his major attributes is that during reloading, his weapon deals more damage. Something that he will absolutely use well.
• "Selicy" has a weapon that charges her forward and detonates any enemies suffering from a Frost debuff.
  • While obviously Ice Spells are a common go-to, there's a lot of items that allow other types of builds to work in various.
  • The item "Cryophage" makes Poison have a chance to afflict Frost Stacks, along with several other items allowing Poison to be stronger or persist longer.
  • Alternatively, there's also a spell that lights anything suffering from Frost on fire-- which can benefit Fire items like Citrine, gaining Mana evertime Fire Damage is dealt.
  • There's even an item that makes Fire inflict Poison... which can inflict Frost. Coming all back around.
• "Violette" has a violin weapon that can affect herself with various buffs and debuffs to easily use spells with a "tradeoff" effect to them.
  • Many spells have a "When you have Fragile" effect, which is something Violette can inflict on herself.
  • In addition to her innate passive making Fragile a doubled-edged effect, you gain extra Spell Damage equal to half the Fragile debuffs you have.
  • Fragile grants 1.5x the damage taken, be it on the user or enemy.
  • She can gain Trinity stacks which allows Spells requiring it to gain a full charge for devastating effect easily.

Each of these examples have a different way of going about their kits, but since spells and items gained are (mostly) random, the user is expected to adapt their set to whatever works for the road ahead.
Whatever character you picked is the only one you won't fight. So if you pick Gunner? You'll have to fight the other 7. _{(8 if you include the optional Shopkeeper, who is needed for a specific run.)}
You're going to have to fight them all, players of all kinds will have difficulty on certain foes but easy pickings on others.

In the case of OSfE? Their equal to Primes is "Calamity" spells, the highest rarity.
You can only get them if you build enough of the "Luck" stat, which not only boosts both the odds of getting rarer items but the strength of enemies as well.
These spells are incredibly powerful, but you're also going to face incrementally destructive enemies.

 

Warframe can do something similar very easily, just without the RNG.
A weapon doesn't always need to be irrelevant, as we can choose our weapons at any point? It should be encouraged to be more open-minded in mechanics rather than raw firepower. Just because- hypothetically- the Vericres Prime does more damage outright, the normal Vericres should be able to hold it's own with something for the player.
It's for that reason alone why I find Warframe has gotten worse over time. They've been really going for the "just be barbaric lmao" approach.

Hell, if you really want to? A "gear score" that includes mods could help regulate gameplay. Sure, you can equip the Primed Mods-- but maybe that'll make Nullifiers spawn more often. The "threat" of how powerful the player is would directly affect how much the enemy is going to respond.
That way DE not only can avoid having to rely on Steel Path being the lame excuse that it is, but also keep players from getting too bored.
^{After all, Level Cap runs are cool and all-- but it's really just fighting the same fodder units over and over until they can one-shot you. If you're invisible at the start, you'll be invisible forever. That's just how Warframe works.}

This post is asking for a QoL fix, but the actual issues goes WAY further than that. I've been around long enough and scouring all sorts of ways to play the game.
This game is a broken mess, but that's not always a bad thing... it just needs to realize it's a broken mess and accept that it's going to be one.
Instead of intimidating the player with knowledge, make it approachable with a tutorial. Guiding them along until they have a starting idea and than let them CHOOSE how they want to branch out. Bravely Default is another game that does "exceedingly broken kits, but still fair" very well.
"Where to go and why" should be more than just the devs presenting two yellow brick roads that lead to the same town. There should be an open journey and the same destination, but the journey itself should be flexible. The tools you bring are an extension of yourself, so really the player should be advised to sharpen themselves over all else.

 

TLDR for the boring, since I know my audience:

• Lock Primed Warframes from use until the OG is made, ensuring the player has actually reached the correct progression.
• Weapons are fine as-is. A lot of them have mechanical changes enough to keep them different from their original.
  • Arguably the best way to do the whole "Prime" thing.
• Other games have progression locks that can be looked into.
  • Some that don't even "lock" content, but rather make powerful things a double-edged tactic.
• This QoL fix has a good idea on paper, but this wound of an issue runs way deeper than even the sharpest of Galatines.
  • We still haven't gotten the "New Player Experience" that DE promised a while back, just dumbing down gameplay until even my potted plant can play the game.
  • In case you're wondering? My potted plant isn't giving a good review either. ^{(Yes, this is a joke. Though it probably would if it could.)}

[Raarsi]

4 hours ago, (XBOX)takeoffpope said:

I can’t be the only one that thinks it is extremely annoying and inconvenient to grind for the prime variant of a frame and completely have to start from scratch and go through the process of re-applying forma to mod slots, orokin reactors, arcane adapters, and even exilus adapters shredding through scarce resources and wasting time that could be used to grind and acquire other things.

While annoying, it does give me something to do.  Lot easier to view it that way when I see the game for the journey and not the destination, so while it is a grind for sure, you're grinding either way.

To be fair though, I have a feeling this argument will pop up again once we get around to potential augmenting nightmare that will be Sevagoth Prime.

[RLanzinger]

 

Prime Valence fusion... asked for years, ignored by Santa n' The Indifference: "Don't for impossible Kiddo"