DE - Please freeze all timers on host-migration

[jeopardy2808]

Dear DE,

first of all i am very happy about the launch for mobile systems like iOS and in the future Android. A very cool feature and i already tested it.

But there is something that has now become more annoying then before: in 90% of my missions today i get a host migration...
What is even more anoying: Farming focus in SO or ESO is broken like this...timer for focus is still running while host migration takes somehow forever atm.

 

Is there not the possibilty when the systems detect a active host migration to freeze all timers for all remaining players and just start them again when host-migration is
done?

Thanks in advance!

[eboomer]

And also don't reset so many abilities, arcanes, mod effects, and so on.

[Jarriaga]

I requested it 5 years ago:

 

 

Needless to say:

1) It hasn't been done.

2) You'll find people who justify us not having dedicated servers because DE will lose money.

[eboomer]

1 hour ago, Jarriaga said:

I requested it 5 years ago:

 

 

Needless to say:

1) It hasn't been done.

2) You'll find people who justify us not having dedicated servers because DE will lose money.

Ok so let's take for granted they are too cheap to have actual servers.  But still, why can't they snapshot the game state the moment that host migration happens?  Why would they need dedicated servers to not completely change the game state upon host migration?  Host migrations sucks, but I don't think it has to suck as much as it currently does.

[Jarriaga]

27 minutes ago, eboomer said:

Ok so let's take for granted they are too cheap to have actual servers.  But still, why can't they snapshot the game state the moment that host migration happens?  Why would they need dedicated servers to not completely change the game state upon host migration?  Host migrations sucks, but I don't think it has to suck as much as it currently does.

A snapshot has to be stored somewhere, and it can't be the host device that just disconnected. 

[eboomer]

18 minutes ago, Jarriaga said:

A snapshot has to be stored somewhere, and it can't be the host device that just disconnected. 

So why could they not select in advance the player that is to become host in the event of the host disconnecting or the squad otherwise migrating, and have that player's machine snapshot the game state?  Or could the clients all snapshot it?  They already do something like this with our coordinates in the map, our energy, and a lot of other things.  What I am suggesting is just snapshotting everything that is significant, rather than only the hamfisted assortment of things they currently snapshot.

[jeopardy2808]

vor 4 Stunden schrieb Jarriaga:

A snapshot has to be stored somewhere, and it can't be the host device that just disconnected. 

No sorry - dedicated servers and doing snapshots like doing on server in vsphere - not the jedi way

It has to be an easy method to handle the problem, something that does not stress out the systems:

"Host left game"
"freeze all active timers"
"Start new host migration"
"finish host migration"
"unfreeze all active timers"

And Tenno can go on..

[(PSN)robotwars7]

11 hours ago, Jarriaga said:

You'll find people who justify us not having dedicated servers because DE will lose money.

and if DE loses a ton of money, what do you think that means for the game? can't put out decent, frequent updates if there's no cash to put in development. DE are a business, they have to justify their own costs and decide what's worth spending on and what isn't, and to this day, whether we like it or not, dedicated servers are still in the "not" pile. 

of course we'd all like dedicated servers, but we can't force DE to buy them. 

[Aerikx]

8 minutes ago, (PSN)robotwars7 said:

and if DE loses a ton of money, what do you think that means for the game? can't put out decent, frequent updates if there's no cash to put in development.

I love how folks don't/refuse to recognize the fallout. 

The bulk of those who want dedicated servers are also 100% opposed to:

Paid Battlepasses

Monthly Subscriptions

Limited Time Purchases (Like that Commemorative Frost skin thing that everyone hated)

IE: Everything that'd be needed to fund those said Dedicated Servers.

I guess DE is just supposed to make everything free and just magically pull money to fund everything out of thin air. 

(...I now want a Money Warframe. Just beats enemies down via money it pulls out of the freaking ether...)

[jeopardy2808]

vor 14 Minuten schrieb (PSN)robotwars7:

and if DE loses a ton of money, what do you think that means for the game? can't put out decent, frequent updates if there's no cash to put in development. DE are a business, they have to justify their own costs and decide what's worth spending on and what isn't, and to this day, whether we like it or not, dedicated servers are still in the "not" pile. 

of course we'd all like dedicated servers, but we can't force DE to buy them. 

and like i said i don't want to start a discussion according dedicated servers .... this is another topic

this is about if DE is able to freeze somehow the timers.

[Circle_of_Psi]

12 hours ago, eboomer said:

And also don't reset so many abilities, arcanes, mod effects, and so on.

15 hours ago, jeopardy2808 said:

Dear DE,

first of all i am very happy about the launch for mobile systems like iOS and in the future Android. A very cool feature and i already tested it.

But there is something that has now become more annoying then before: in 90% of my missions today i get a host migration...
What is even more anoying: Farming focus in SO or ESO is broken like this...timer for focus is still running while host migration takes somehow forever atm.

 

Is there not the possibilty when the systems detect a active host migration to freeze all timers for all remaining players and just start them again when host-migration is
done?

Thanks in advance!

Both of this ^

 

[Jarriaga]

2 hours ago, (PSN)robotwars7 said:

and if DE loses a ton of money, what do you think that means for the game?

Warframe has overtaken Counter Strike 2 in revenue.

I am not going to entertain the thought of what DE "losing money means for the game" in the context of them making more money than a game that features dedicated servers.

[Aerikx]

1 hour ago, Jarriaga said:

Warframe has overtaken Counter Strike 2 in revenue.

I am not going to entertain the thought of what DE "losing money means for the game" in the context of them making more money than a game that features dedicated servers.

You are severely underestimating the cost of development, regular business expense, maintenance/upkeep, and the most overlooked expense...update/cert deployment.

Whispers was probably one of their most expensive updates to date. 

Voice Actor pay alone probably cost more than anyone on these forums can estimate, plus licensing/obtaining rights to the song for the 1999 segment, then certification across multiple platforms....

CS2 is on how many platforms again? Has to develop how many versions again? Comply with how many digital stores/outlets? Pay how many voice actors, musicians, and etc are involved in every update?

You're comparing Apples to Broccoli here. 

Back on topic....

The timer issue is something I've wanted resolved since Arbitrations. 

I'm still haunted by one time where a power outage hit my friend, so...host migration...while the sounds of infested beating us down played over the loading screen.

Game reloaded to all of us dead. 1hr Arbitration down the drain.

Perhaps like the Mission Start vote, DE could add an unpause/"Ready" check feature for migrations?

[Jarriaga]

3 hours ago, Aerikx said:

CS2 is on how many platforms again? Has to develop how many versions again? Comply with how many digital stores/outlets? Pay how many voice actors, musicians, and etc are involved in every update?

You're not helping your argument with this. You're pointing out that WF is more profitable despite having significantly more expenses.

[Arbitrary]

7 hours ago, Jarriaga said:

Warframe has overtaken Counter Strike 2 in revenue.

You're the second person I've seen that's used this misleading statistic. Yes Warframe did have more revenue than CS2 on Steam. . . for 1 week, comparing only US sales, and with a very popular frame/weapon combo in PA.

Edited February 21 by Arbitrary

[Jarriaga]

1 hour ago, Arbitrary said:

You're the second person I've seen that's used this misleading statistic. Yes Warframe did have more revenue than CS2 on Steam. . . for 1 week, comparing only US sales, and with a very popular frame/weapon combo in PA.

The point being made is that DE are making enough money to consistently chart as a top money maker. This is further hammered down by the metric going by just ONE platform, and DE make money on 4 (Now 5, and later 6 this year).

[Aerikx]

1 hour ago, Jarriaga said:

You're not helping your argument with this. You're pointing out that WF is more profitable despite having significantly more expenses.

I am absolutely helping my argument because you are looking at just 1 metric.

You are not looking at ALL the money bleeding out of DE.

Salaries, Average Cost of Business (paying the day to day bills), Voice Actors, Certification Updates & Fees (Across PlayStation 4 & 5, Xbox1 & S, Switch and now IOS), Advertising, R&D, Music Production/Composer Fees, Tennogen pay outs, do I have to keep going? 

And just cause DE did good for a short period of time doesn't mean its consistent. Unlike subscription games, DE's revenue is in constant flux.

[Jarriaga]

1 hour ago, Aerikx said:

I am absolutely helping my argument because you are looking at just 1 metric.

You are not looking at ALL the money bleeding out of DE.

Salaries, Average Cost of Business (paying the day to day bills), Voice Actors, Certification Updates & Fees (Across PlayStation 4 & 5, Xbox1 & S, Switch and now IOS), Advertising, R&D, Music Production/Composer Fees, Tennogen pay outs, do I have to keep going? 

And just cause DE did good for a short period of time doesn't mean its consistent. Unlike subscription games, DE's revenue is in constant flux.

That applies to every single game developer studio. They are all businesses. They all have to pay salaries, invest in R&D as well as marketing and music production, pay for certs (If console developers) and every single possible metric that applies to every single business in this beautiful capitalist world.

FYI Tennogen is a net positive income to DE. The cut they pay is accounted for in the asking price. 

[Hobie-wan]

10 hours ago, Jarriaga said:

Warframe has overtaken Counter Strike 2 in revenue.

Ah yes, CS2 with it's new characters and quests that are released several times a year, as opposed to mostly skins for existing equipment.

[jeopardy2808]

vor 4 Stunden schrieb Hobie-wan:

Ah yes, CS2 with it's new characters and quests that are released several times a year, as opposed to mostly skins for existing equipment.

guys focus on the topic please - if not please go to the off-topic section - thanks!

[Aerikx]

6 hours ago, jeopardy2808 said:

guys focus on the topic please - if not please go to the off-topic section - thanks!

We're on topic. Just the discussion has gone beyond the surface level.

Additionally it's hard to discuss host migrations without the topic of dedicated servers coming up.

It's hard to discuss dedicated servers without the topic of revenue coming up. 

DE (to its credit), puts out quality products, so it often gets treated like a AAA dev with a Scrooge McDuck style bottomless Pool of money. When it really has the Scrooge McDuck style Kiddie Pool of money. 

However, if it helps any...

Tactical Potato and few other streamers have DE on record saying that Mobile is LAST priority on Hosting, and that Hosting works via a priority system. 

So your recent string of connection issues is probably an external issue. 

[jeopardy2808]

vor 40 Minuten schrieb Aerikx:

We're on topic. Just the discussion has gone beyond the surface level.

Additionally it's hard to discuss host migrations without the topic of dedicated servers coming up.

It's hard to discuss dedicated servers without the topic of revenue coming up. 

DE (to its credit), puts out quality products, so it often gets treated like a AAA dev with a Scrooge McDuck style bottomless Pool of money. When it really has the Scrooge McDuck style Kiddie Pool of money. 

However, if it helps any...

Tactical Potato and few other streamers have DE on record saying that Mobile is LAST priority on Hosting, and that Hosting works via a priority system. 

So your recent string of connection issues is probably an external issue. 

i agree with you that this kind of discussion is necessary, or not - depending on which side you chose.

However - initially the topic is about freezing the timers on host migration...it is not important how the priority is set, whoever the host is, if Warframe is far better than CS2, how
much money .... and so on and so on...

If there is no host migration while playing the game: GG

But if it happens, regardless how often and who or what system the host is - the issue is still the same that the timers should stop whenever a host migration is happening.
If it possible for DE to do this or not - i don't know thats why i opend the topic here :)