Being forced to use outdated or bottom-tier RNG equipment in new high level game modes is not "difficulty"

[Drachnyn]

Has anyone gotten a weapon or frame they dont own any variant of?

[ClockworkDirge]

4 minutes ago, Drachnyn said:

Has anyone gotten a weapon or frame they dont own any variant of?

 Every thing before the weird reset in the middle of today was stuff I didn’t have anymore or never built. I got “lucky” after the weird mid day reset because it gave me two things I owned; Revenant and the Nataruk. It was the opposite of fun, but I managed to eek out enough to 100% Elite Deep Archimedea anyway… with a whole lot of screaming in annoyance…

[MrDugan]

9 hours ago, Kaiga said:

Well tenno, Deep Archemedia is finally here.



Here's your "endgame" lmao

 

You know what, after looking at the rewards table i think you ended up being right here about this.

Because there's nothing new, or game-changing, it's just a slightly more efficient vosphor/shard farm which (they sure as hell didn't sell it like that, "challenge-for-veterans" "elite rewards", etc) with that in mind, then yes, this has now become correct and i owe you an apology for thinking otherwise.

 God, that screen cap is so vindicating.  I hope every single person that argued with the point of this thread gets nothing but bottom tier garbage for every single pick for this mode forever.  Have fun trying to run this mode with a bolto lmao.

[MrDugan]

13 minutes ago, ClockworkDirge said:

 Every thing before the weird reset in the middle of today was stuff I didn’t have anymore or never built. I got “lucky” after the weird mid day reset because it gave me two things I owned; Revenant and the Nataruk. It was the opposite of fun, but I managed to eek out enough to 100% Elite Deep Archimedea anyway… with a whole lot of screaming in annoyance…

I have no idea if you were one of the people arguing with OP or what, so this isn't directed at you, just kind of hijacking your comment.  But I and others warned everyone of this exact situation, and it's exactly why OP called out the arsenal being outdated as a problem.  Reiterating, but since I own literally everything that is droppable by the Circuit, I have become tragically familiar with just how bad a lot of the full arsenal really is.  There's a lot of folks about to get a super rude awakening when it comes to their thoughts on the quality of some of these weapons.

[schilds]

Luckily you can run a weapon or frame of your choice and all you'll miss out is 50 vosfor.

[Drachnyn]

vor 14 Minuten schrieb schilds:

Luckily you can run a weapon or frame of your choice and all you'll miss out is 50 vosfor.

Yea it seems that vosfor reward is so low specifically to encourage people skipping out on the parameter they like the least.

[Ghastly-Ghoul]

Here’s a thought; go Forma or farm the equipment blueprints right after the weekly reset. This is the game’s endgame. Is it gating if you can’t successfully complete this mode easily right after you finish all the story quests and get rank 5 Cavia? Simply reaching this point doesn’t mean you’re at the end of the game. There’s this weird obsession about missing out on rewards if you can’t complete the mode yet.

[MrDugan]

19 minutes ago, Ghastly-Ghoul said:

Here’s a thought; go Forma or farm the equipment blueprints right after the weekly reset. This is the game’s endgame. Is it gating if you can’t successfully complete this mode easily right after you finish all the story quests and get rank 5 Cavia? Simply reaching this point doesn’t mean you’re at the end of the game. There’s this weird obsession about missing out on rewards if you can’t complete the mode yet.

You're delusional if you think every single weapon in the arsenal can actually handle this content.  I've already preemptively done what you're so confidently suggesting is the solution.  I went through and acquired every single weapon the Circuit can offer me.  Because it can't give weaker variants of things, and for mechanics like arbitrations and I'm assuming this mode, all variants count for the weapon shown.  Which means, in essence, I have literally everything in the game in my inventory.  I have nearly 1400 forma applied across hundreds, literally hundreds of weapons.  I have weapons with full builds and rivens that I know for a fact would not do well in level 300 content where the enemies get SP type buffs, and no, it's not my build.  It's the base stats.  A lot of these weapons are completely irredeemable outside the context of the Circuit and its Decree system because they do not have the stats.  Add in all the negative modifiers for the mission and you're talking about potentially taking weapons that barely function in NORMAL starchart with a full build into the hardest content in the game.  The only people that could possibly think that it's viable are people that don't have experience with the full arsenal.  

[Ghastly-Ghoul]

15 minutes ago, MrDugan said:

You're delusional if you think every single weapon in the arsenal can actually handle this content.  I've already preemptively done what you're so confidently suggesting is the solution.  I went through and acquired every single weapon the Circuit can offer me.  Because it can't give weaker variants of things, and for mechanics like arbitrations and I'm assuming this mode, all variants count for the weapon shown.  Which means, in essence, I have literally everything in the game in my inventory.  I have nearly 1400 forma applied across hundreds, literally hundreds of weapons.  I have weapons with full builds and rivens that I know for a fact would not do well in level 300 content where the enemies get SP type buffs, and no, it's not my build.  It's the base stats.  A lot of these weapons are completely irredeemable outside the context of the Circuit and its Decree system because they do not have the stats.  Add in all the negative modifiers for the mission and you're talking about potentially taking weapons that barely function in NORMAL starchart with a full build into the hardest content in the game.  The only people that could possibly think that it's viable are people that don't have experience with the full arsenal.  

Well I didn’t say I was confident, it was just a thought. Maybe using the Helminth for adding an armor strip would help for that week when you get poop weapons. Smite Infusion, Xata’s Whisper, Roar, etc. 

Edited April 5 by Ghastly-Ghoul

[MrDugan]

Just now, Ghastly-Ghoul said:

Well I didn’t say I was confident, it was just a thought. Maybe using the Helminth for adding an armor strip would help for that week when you get poop weapons.

There are weapons that have such bad stats that even utilizing armor strip from a frame or operator isn't enough to give them kill speed that will actually function in a mission or kill speed that leaves you with ammo left over.  Things like the Bolto and the Viper were made to be early to mid game weapons...  Years ago when early to mid game is practically still the tutorial in the current game.  This is what the OP meant as outdated.  The Acrid used to be considered strong.  Even with modern modding, gun arcanes and rivens, the acrid still kills so slowly in base level SP that it's not actually feasible to use it for something like defense.  And it takes all that investment just for it to be mostly viable in Sortie 3 level territory.  And it will STILL be slower and less effective than dozens of other options.  Not dozens as like 12.  DozenS as in nearly a hundred. 

It and several other weapons were strong at the time, and are now outdated.  The base stats on a lot of this gear are not good enough to handle completely ideal conditions in the simulacrum.  Put them in actual combat at level 300 with negative modifiers and all the forma and rivens and copium in the world will not be enough.  I'm not even talking about "oh, it'll be miserably and insanely slow, but you can slog through a mission that takes 2 hours, so it's technically doable."  I mean some of these weapons are going to run out of ammo on the first enemy, and you're going to be praying your melee or frame is enough to take down all three missions.  I've done testing.  My builds, other people's builds.  The only way you can get a lot of these weapons to actually work in this level of content is if you have a loadout that is dedicated to making that weapon work, and you can't have a highly specific loadout with this mechanic.

[Ghastly-Ghoul]

4 minutes ago, MrDugan said:

There are weapons that have such bad stats that even utilizing armor strip from a frame or operator isn't enough to give them kill speed that will actually function in a mission or kill speed that leaves you with ammo left over.  Things like the Bolto and the Viper were made to be early to mid game weapons...  Years ago when early to mid game is practically still the tutorial in the current game.  This is what the OP meant as outdated.  The Acrid used to be considered strong.  Even with modern modding, gun arcanes and rivens, the acrid still kills so slowly in base level SP that it's not actually feasible to use it for something like defense.  And it takes all that investment just for it to be mostly viable in Sortie 3 level territory.  And it will STILL be slower and less effective than dozens of other options.  Not dozens as like 12.  DozenS as in nearly a hundred. 

It and several other weapons were strong at the time, and are now outdated.  The base stats on a lot of this gear are not good enough to handle completely ideal conditions in the simulacrum.  Put them in actual combat at level 300 with negative modifiers and all the forma and rivens and copium in the world will not be enough.  I'm not even talking about "oh, it'll be miserably and insanely slow, but you can slog through a mission that takes 2 hours, so it's technically doable."  I mean some of these weapons are going to run out of ammo on the first enemy, and you're going to be praying your melee or frame is enough to take down all three missions.  I've done testing.  My builds, other people's builds.  The only way you can get a lot of these weapons to actually work in this level of content is if you have a loadout that is dedicated to making that weapon work, and you can't have a highly specific loadout with this mechanic.

Even with a squad? I did hear this was sort of an answer to players wanting raids back.

[Drachnyn]

vor 6 Minuten schrieb Ghastly-Ghoul:

Even with a squad? I did hear this was sort of an answer to players wanting raids back.

With a squad you are probably going to be in smooth sailing territory although we're not beating the "getting carried" allegations that way. Realistically if you got a weapon that sucks and it's disruption like this week you're probably going to achieve more with it by just modding it for pure cold proc application in order to help out teammates who do have demo killing weapons.

[MrDugan]

16 minutes ago, Ghastly-Ghoul said:

Even with a squad? I did hear this was sort of an answer to players wanting raids back.

Enemies get bonus defenses per extra squad member, same as archon hunts and netracells.  If you want to do some testing on what that looks like, take the weapon of your choice into a solo archon/netracell and just pay attention to damage.  Not numbers, look at how much of the enemy's life bar gets removed and at what speed under constant attacks.  Check TTK.  Now do the same thing in a full squad in archon/netracell.  If a weapon is barely effective in the simulacrum under ideal conditions, and wouldn't fare well in actual combat, especially with the negative mission modifiers, imagine what happens to your damage when that same weapon has to deal with enemies that have literally millions more in EHP.  The only benefit a squad is going to have is someone gets lucky with offerings and hard carries the squad.

[Ghastly-Ghoul]

9 minutes ago, Drachnyn said:

With a squad you are probably going to be in smooth sailing territory although we're not beating the "getting carried" allegations that way. Realistically if you got a weapon that sucks and it's disruption like this week you're probably going to achieve more with it by just modding it for pure cold proc application in order to help out teammates who do have demo killing weapons.

I guess as long as you're contributing lol. We can still use companions and Tenno specters at least.

[_Eclips3_]

On 2024-02-24 at 1:13 AM, schilds said:

1. It's optional.

2. All it takes is one decent weapon in a loadout and you're set. *Every* frame can be modded to be viable in *any* high level content, so at worst you'll get three terrible weapon choices and have to give up just *one* bonus for a decent weapon.

3. The top bonus may not require taking *all* presented options.

4. The top bonus is a guaranteed legendary arcane. Since at some point your set of arcanes will be completed, forcing extra arcanes will probably not be what most people want anyway.

That means the gold bonus is going to be good enough unless you're farming legendary arcanes to trade.

 

DE can *never* satisfy people who want everything their way, and shouldn't even try, quite frankly.

Everything is optional; playing the game, the platform you choose etc... Doesn't mean the options have to be rubbish both ways. The current options are trash or trash (impossible to complete or get rubbish rewards that aren't worth the time put in), since it's a game and meant to be fun, why not make at least one option appealing?

[MrDugan]

lmao.  I stole this from reddit.  I'm just imagining OP hiding in a corner as Banshee, spamming Sonar and praying someone on the team has actual weapons.

EDIT:  This is how I know there's no reason to actually take a lot of people's opinions on gear seriously.  Someone on the thread I took this from said "you may be able to juice the Hate up enough for that level of content."  Not only is the Hate Incarnon one of the best melee weapons in the game right now...  That's a single Kama.  Like I've been saying, most of this community doesn't even remember the trash that exists in this game, and yet they're in the conversation like they do.

Edited April 5 by MrDugan

[schilds]

26 minutes ago, _Eclips3_ said:

Everything is optional; playing the game, the platform you choose etc... Doesn't mean the options have to be rubbish both ways. The current options are trash or trash (impossible to complete or get rubbish rewards that aren't worth the time put in), since it's a game and meant to be fun, why not make at least one option appealing?

1. You're late to the argument. This thread is old and at this point we're just regurgitating the same points.

2. You're taking things way out of context here.

The context is that people were claiming that they are being "forced" into accepting all restrictions. My use of "optional" is in response to their use of "forced". The restrictions are optional. You don't have to tick them, and given that the top reward is 50 vosfor (back at the start of the argument we thought it would be a legendary arcane) then the fomo is close to nil and you are entirely free to take one thing of your choice. I won't say totally nil because there's probably someone who can't give up even the tiniest of rewards - but quite frankly I don't' have a lot of sympathy for someone who feels that 50 vosfor "forces" them to play with all restrictions.

That was my entire point. I'm not arguing that rng loadouts are fun. Just that you are not being *forced* into it.

[Drachnyn]

vor 9 Minuten schrieb MrDugan:

lmao.  I stole this from reddit.  I'm just imagining OP hiding in a corner as Banshee, spamming Sonar and praying someone on the team has actual weapons.

Well they would be a valuable team member that way.

[schilds]

Why would a player need to hide in the corner with Banshee?

Why would a player need to pray someone else has weapons when they can just take their own?

We must be talking about a player who doesn't know how to mod and can't give up 50 vosfor.

[MrDugan]

11 minutes ago, schilds said:

Why would a player need to hide in the corner with Banshee?

Why would a player need to pray someone else has weapons when they can just take their own?

We must be talking about a player who doesn't know how to mod and can't give up 50 vosfor.

I've always wondered what copium smells like.  It must be pleasant.  

[schilds]

That player doesn't have to hide in a corner without a weapon, so what exactly am I "coping" with?

 

[edit]

So on testing it, at lvl 300 Banshee can kill just fine with the Amphis (I mean, she has armour strip and sonar, so ...) and she survives just fine with shield gate.

So in fact, she can probably drop either the energy or operator debuff. Solo might be touch-and-go since you can't slip up, but in a squad she'll be fine without "hiding in a corner".

Edited April 5 by schilds

[MrDugan]

3 hours ago, schilds said:

That player doesn't have to hide in a corner without a weapon, so what exactly am I "coping" with?

 

[edit]

So on testing it, at lvl 300 Banshee can kill just fine with the Amphis (I mean, she has armour strip and sonar, so ...) and she survives just fine with shield gate.

So in fact, she can probably drop either the energy or operator debuff. Solo might be touch-and-go since you can't slip up, but in a squad she'll be fine without "hiding in a corner".

So did you actually get Banshee in DA for your test you allegedly did, or are you just assuming that she'd be fine with all the extra modifiers that are in DA?  Because level 300 basic enemies that don't have SP modifiers or other mission debuffs are a breeze, and not a good test.

[schilds]

8 minutes ago, MrDugan said:

So did you actually get Banshee in DA for your test you allegedly did, or are you just assuming that she'd be fine with all the extra modifiers that are in DA?  Because level 300 basic enemies that don't have SP modifiers or other mission debuffs are a breeze, and not a good test.

I didn't get Banshee for my rng loadout, but I *did* equip her and weapons from that screenshot with all but one restriction and and try her out solo in DA (which you can replay as often as you like).

You know how I've been saying all along you're not *forced* to take a loadout? Hey, guess what, not only can you take your favourite loadout along, you can *also* take along the loadout someone else claims will require you hide in the corner .... Like .. I mean it's as if I have the freedom to equip whatever I want! Magic!

Edited April 5 by schilds

[MrDugan]

Just now, schilds said:

I didn't get Banshee for my rng loadout, but I *did* equip her and weapons from that screenshot with all but one restriction and and try her out solo in DA (which you can replay as often as you like). 

Just assuming no completion screen shot.  Just like a quick, get in, kill a couple enemies so you can say it works, then abort?  Happy to be proven wrong.  

[Tsukinoki]

3 hours ago, MrDugan said:

lmao.  I stole this from reddit.  I'm just imagining OP hiding in a corner as Banshee, spamming Sonar and praying someone on the team has actual weapons.

EDIT:  This is how I know there's no reason to actually take a lot of people's opinions on gear seriously.  Someone on the thread I took this from said "you may be able to juice the Hate up enough for that level of content."  Not only is the Hate Incarnon one of the best melee weapons in the game right now...  That's a single Kama.  Like I've been saying, most of this community doesn't even remember the trash that exists in this game, and yet they're in the conversation like they do.

Hey, how about you actually take a look from the OP on reddit (OPs name is highlighted blue on reddit to make it possible to identify them):

So yeah...you're presenting a "Hey look, wouldn't it be funny to get such a bad gear selection?" as a "Look people!!!!  This mode sucks!!!! Look at this horrible loadout that this person got!!!!"

When it's just someone poking fun at the idea.

Yeah, such a great strawman you have.

What now, you're going to put together and image of even lower tier gear and try to pass that off as something that actually happened?  Instead of actually posting the context and truth?