Disruption and hearing impairments

[Drachnyn]

With the disruption coming to the new tileset I think it's once again time to talk about accessibility for this game mode with hearing impairments. This is a very important topic for me because I am deaf on one ear and I think disruption is the best designed gamemode in the game. There is a problem with it however and that is that the visual indicator happens far later than the audio indicator for where the demo is approaching. It's not impossible to work around it for me by turning the camera but with the highspeed movement warframe has this becomes disorientating and not in a fun way.

There is a very good solution possible for this however in my opinion: make the visual indicator for where the demolyst is coming from show up at the same time as the audio indicator. This way people like me or people with other forms of hearing impairments could enjoy disruption to its fullest without having to rely on disorientating camera spins or having to just wait. Both hold the fun of this gamemode back.

[sunderthefirmament]

47 minutes ago, Drachnyn said:

With the disruption coming to the new tileset I think it's once again time to talk about accessibility for this game mode with hearing impairments. This is a very important topic for me because I am deaf on one ear and I think disruption is the best designed gamemode in the game. There is a problem with it however and that is that the visual indicator happens far later than the audio indicator for where the demo is approaching. It's not impossible to work around it for me by turning the camera but with the highspeed movement warframe has this becomes disorientating and not in a fun way.

There is a very good solution possible for this however in my opinion: make the visual indicator for where the demolyst is coming from show up at the same time as the audio indicator. This way people like me or people with other forms of hearing impairments could enjoy disruption to its fullest without having to rely on disorientating camera spins or having to just wait. Both hold the fun of this gamemode back.

Excellent suggestion.  This would also help counteract DE's bad design habit of making NPC's bark and chatter even while the demolyst is approaching, further obscuring the audio cues.

[Zakkhar]

I often play Disruption with outside music LOUD (in fact I play most of lenghty boring missions like this). I cant hear anything in game usually. I chill. Tactics for getting Demos in this state is to either:

• be OP and be able to kill them pretty instantly, whenever they show near the conduit (and you stay in the vicinity the conduit yourself clearly)
• or anticipate possible routes they can come in, with high enemy radar range if they get into your radar area they get instantly marked on map for everyone.

Being OP and being able to kill them in split second probably doesnt hurt either.

Also map overlay (the Diablo style transparent thingy you get by tapping M) is a must as it least you see all keys dropped anywhere in the tileset as well as Demos.

2 hours ago, Drachnyn said:

There is a problem with it however and that is that the visual indicator happens far later than the audio indicator for where the demo is approaching.

Thats not how it works. That is not how any of this works.

Sound effect plays regardless whether any player came into close proximity of the Demo. It may be muffled or completely silent due to the walls and distance, but it is there. Just like a tree falling in an empty forest.

Visual effect ONLY shows after any player came into contact with it (into the range of their enemy radar).

If the visual effect happens MUCH later, it is a clear indication the squad/solo player sucks at anticipating Demo's approach and is either humping the Conduit or went completely wrong way.

 

Edited March 10 by Zakkhar

[Zakkhar]

2 hours ago, Drachnyn said:

make the visual indicator for where the demolyst is coming from show up at the same time as the audio indicator.

That's gonna be kinda cheating the system as it completely negates the need of anticipating the Demo's route.

Edited March 10 by Zakkhar

[Drachnyn]

vor 1 Minute schrieb Zakkhar:

I often play Disruption with outside music LOUD. I cant hear anything in game usually. I chill. Tactics for getting Demos in this state is to either:

• be OP and be able to kill them pretty instantly, whenever they show near the conduit (and you stay near the conduit yourself clearly)
• or anticipate possible routes they can come in, with high enemy radar range if they get into your radar area they get instantly marked on map for everyone.

Being OP and being able to kill them in split second probably doesnt hurt either.

Also map overlay (the Diablo style transparent thingy you get by tapping M) is a must as it least you see all keys dropped anywhere in the tileset as well as Demos.

Thats not how it works. That is not how any of this works.

Sound effect plays regardless whether any player came into close proximity of the Demo. It may be muffled or completely silent due to the walls and distance, but it is there.

Visual effect ONLY shows after any player came into contact with it (into the range of their enemy radar).

If the visual effect happens MUCH later, it is a clear indication the squad/solo player sucks at anticipating Demo's approch and is either humping the Conduit or went completely wrong way.

Directional audio is enough to instantly determine where the demo is coming from. I want people with hearing impairments like mine to also be able to locate the direction. I am not asking for any sort of buff beyond what is possible already.

[Zakkhar]

6 minutes ago, Drachnyn said:

Directional audio is enough to instantly determine where the demo is coming from.

No it's not. As I already mentioned it is often muffled and more silent due to walls/doors and distance. There are tilsets that you can see the direction, but there are two corridors in that direction and they enter the conduit area from completely different sides. Also, sometimes there are multiple Demo's incoming (2-3) and sound is not really a big factor in this case, because you do not know which beep is to which conduit you do not know that even with visual idicator either). Thats why you need to be active, not passive.

6 minutes ago, Drachnyn said:

I want people with hearing impairments like mine to also be able to locate the direction.

And this is exactly the experience we get when we play loud outside music or no in game sound. And it is still completely fine, if you know what you are doing - anticipation, map overlay, good single target burst

6 minutes ago, Drachnyn said:

I am not asking for any sort of buff beyond what is possible already.

But you are asking for it.

Edited March 10 by Zakkhar

[Drachnyn]

Gerade eben schrieb Zakkhar:

No it's not. As I already mentioned it is often muffed and more silent due to walls/doors and distance.

And this is exactly the experience we get when we play loud outside music or no in game sound.

But you are asking for it.

Once the sound happens I can already instantly determine where the demo is coming from, currently I "just" have to spin the camera around to make the directional audio catch the demo sound on my good ear. However as I said this is disorientating to do for a long time as I like to play disruption very high paced. You can just turn off music and turn on game sound if you want to be able to hear the demo approaching. I cant just switch on my bad ear, that's why this is an accessibility issue and has nothing to do with "cheating".

The sound being muffled or quiet is completely irrelevant, the direction is what matters. It also doesnt negate anticipating the demo's route because the sound already doesnt just happen mapwide.

[SDGDen]

honestly, to me the beep is not loud enough when playing even with in-game music.

i can almost instantly figure out where the demolyst is through directional audio, but i *have* to turn off my own music, and i dont play with ingame music. those two things instantly make the mode a lot less enjoyable for me since i mostly play the game with background music or while watching a podcast or something.

i'd like for there to be some kind of non-audio indicator, not just for accessibility, but also because of how restrictive the audio-only solution is even for people with good hearing (such as myself).

 

Edited March 10 by SDGDen

[Drachnyn]

Gerade eben schrieb SDGDen:

honestly, to me the beep is not loud enough when playing even with in-game music.

i can almost instantly figure out where the demolyst is through directional audio, but i *have* to turn off my own music, and i dont play with ingame music. those two things instantly make the mode a lot less enjoyable for me since i mostly play the game with background music or while watching a podcast or something.

 

I'd love it if people without hearing impairments would also get more enjoyment out of an accessibility request.

[Zakkhar]

14 minutes ago, Drachnyn said:

Once the sound happens I can already instantly determine where the demo is coming from, currently I "just" have to spin the camera around to make the directional audio catch the demo sound on my good ear. However as I said this is disorientating to do for a long time as I like to play disruption very high paced.

You seem to be deliberately ignoring part of my posts where I describe how I play completely ignoring souds. And how a fully deaf person would play. You seem very concentrated on your own case and the solution for your own problems. And you present it as an accesibility issue. 

14 minutes ago, Drachnyn said:

You can just turn off music and turn on game sound if you want to be able to hear the demo approaching.

Yet I do the opposite and do 1-2 hour* runs without any issues. Am I the Echo? (the comic Echo not the abomination Disney made).

Spoiler

*) i'd do longer, but it gets boring really fast.

14 minutes ago, Drachnyn said:

I cant just switch on my bad ear, that's why this is an accessibility issue and has nothing to do with "cheating".

I did not say you want to cheat. I said it is cheatnig the system, because the mechanics is: hear whenever, see only when seen. You want to remove this mechanics.

14 minutes ago, Drachnyn said:

The sound being muffled or quiet is completely irrelevant, the direction is what matters. It also doesnt negate anticipating the demo's route because the sound already doesnt just happen mapwide.

Oh, it is quite relevant because the fact nobody can hear it is identical with it not happening.

Edited March 10 by Zakkhar

[Drachnyn]

Gerade eben schrieb Zakkhar:

You seem to be deliberately ignoring part of my posts where I describe how I play completely ignoring souds. And how a fully deaf person would play. You seem very concentrated on your own case and the solution for your own problems. And you present it as an accesibility issue. 

Yet I do the opposite and do 1-2 hour runs without any issues. Am I the Echo? (the comic Echo not the abomination Disney made).

I did not say you want to cheat. I said it is cheatnig the system, because the mechanics is: hear whenever, see only when seen. You want to remove this mechanics.

Oh, it is quite relevant because the fact nobody can hear it is identical with it not happening.

You choose to play without sound. You choose to not make use of one of the mission's features. I didnt. I want to make use of what the game provides like someone who can make that choice. That's why this is an accessibility topic.

[(PSN)FrDiabloFr]

1 minute ago, Drachnyn said:

You choose to play without sound. You choose to not make use of one of the mission's features. I didnt. I want to make use of what the game provides like someone who can make that choice. That's why this is an accessibility topic.

I wouldn’t get to deep into this with them tbh bro, you said your experience the other poster is basing their experience as the only experience save your time don’t waste it back and forthing with them.

[Zakkhar]

3 minutes ago, Drachnyn said:

You choose to play without sound. You choose to not make use of one of the mission's features.

And it is entirely doable and fun if you concetrate on the other features instead.

I am aware that your disability is not by choice, but only reason it gives you this much pain is because you choose to focus on the feature of the mechanic you are lacking in, while you choose to completely ignore the other parts, you are fully skilled with.

Edited March 10 by Zakkhar

[Drachnyn]

vor 1 Minute schrieb Zakkhar:

And it is entirely doable and fun if you concetrate on the other features instead.

I am aware that your disability is not by choice, but only reason it gives you this much pain is because you choose to focus on the feature of the mechanic you are lacking in, while you choose to completely ignore the other parts.

This is the last reply I will give you because you are so ignorant on this. You have 0 clue how I play disruption. What makes you think I dont use enemy radar? What makes you think I dont learn the map layout to get a feel where demos are coming from based on the specific conduit spawn. What makes you think I just sit on the conduit and wait?

All I want is to enjoy this gamemode to its fullest like someone who doesnt have my hearing impairment. Dont bother replying.

[Zakkhar]

32 minutes ago, Drachnyn said:

What makes you think I dont use enemy radar? What makes you think I dont learn the map layout to get a feel where demos are coming from based on the specific conduit spawn. What makes you think I just sit on the conduit and wait?

Your own posts:

3 hours ago, Drachnyn said:

There is a problem with it however and that is that the visual indicator happens far later than the audio indicator for where the demo is approaching.

And numerous other quotes I already adressed (and you ignored).

32 minutes ago, Drachnyn said:

Dont bother replying.

Sadly it is public forum and I am free to reply.

 

Here are a few of similar threads:

 

Edited March 10 by Zakkhar

[Toa_Ignika]

If you're not aware they said that they are doing something with the next update (it was either on the devstream or the devshorts), so we'll see how effective their solution will be.

[Drachnyn]

Gerade eben schrieb Toa_Ignika:

If you're not aware they said that they are doing something with the next update (it was either on the devstream or the devshorts), so we'll see how effective their solution will be.

That's good to hear. DE has made some pretty solid accessibility decisions in the past so I am hopeful.

[Tiltskillet]

2 hours ago, Drachnyn said:

That's good to hear. DE has made some pretty solid accessibility decisions in the past so I am hopeful.

About 47 minutes in.

[Drachnyn]

vor 3 Minuten schrieb Tiltskillet:

About 47 minutes in.

Oh this is great, thanks for linking this.