Weapon Proficiency Level

[LoIyLips]

I would like to upgrade weapons not only with mods, but also with killing mobs or synthesis for killings. Weapon proficiency level - WPL will have 25 progression levels in which there are 5 main levels: 5-10-15-20-25:

conditionally:
Level 1 - 100 kills and 250k synthesis
Level 2 - 200 kills and 500k synthesis
Level 3 - 300 kills and 750k synthesis
Level 4 - 400 kills and 1 million synthesis
Level 5 - 500 kills and 2 million synthesis
Level 6 -> Level 9: from 600 kills to 5k kills, from 3 million synthesis to 5 million
Level 10 - 6k kills and 6 million synthesis
Level 11 -> Level 14: from 7k kills to 12k kills, from 7 million synthesis to 12 million
Level 15 - 12.5k kills and 12.5 million synthesis
Level 16 -> Level 19: from 14k kills to 24k kills, from 14 million synthesis to 24 million
Level 20 - 25k kills and 25 million synthesis
Level 21 -> Level 24: from 26k kills to 48k kills, from 26 million synthesis to 48 million
Level 25 - 50k kills and 50 million synthesis

Every 5th level, you will need to insert the form into the weapon to receive a bonus to basic characteristics.

Upon reaching each 5th level, there will be a choice to improve the basic characteristics of the weapon by +5% (crit chance/crit damage/status chance) / +10% to the basic multi-shot. Perhaps one of the upgrade options could be to add one physical damage: hit/slash/pierce. This progression will allow the old weapon to sparkle in a new way, and will allow the new one to become even more comfortable. This may seem like a pseudo incarnon adapter for all weapons, but I think it’s not so. I am sure EVERY player who likes this or that weapon will want to make it as comfortable as possible, regardless of whether it is strong or weak. It is possible to add any unique decorations for weapons during this progression, of course this is all at your discretion.

[Zakkhar]

Cute, but not another powercreep, please. Fashionframe prizes only.

25k kills, those are rookie numbers. I've got weapons that have several milion kills.

Edited March 26 by Zakkhar

[LoIyLips]

33 минуты назад, Zakkhar сказал:

Cute, but not another powercreep, please. Fashionframe prizes only.

25k kills, those are rookie numbers. I've got weapons that have several milion kills.

Without improving the basic characteristics, this progression does not make much sense , decor can be purchased in this case for platinum.

In the game, there are already many options for how to rebuff a weapon, a more simplified method, namely this progression will not affect anything, because just as they killed 9999 lvl, they will kill, it will just give comfort for the time spent improving the weapon you are playing with.

"I've got weapons that have several milion kills." Millions of kills with AoE guns are not the same as guns that kill a single target, so the number of kills I wrote are suitable for almost all types of weapons.

[Zakkhar]

20 minutes ago, LoIyLips said:

"I've got weapons that have several milion kills." Millions of kills with AoE guns are not the same as guns that kill a single target, so the number of kills I wrote are suitable for almost all types of weapons.

You can make any single target weapon AoE (punch through). Also melee exist. 

They are not suitable for anyone who has more than 200 hours in this game and knows how to mod.

[quxier]

https://youtu.be/6NXnxTNIWkc?si=ef5WUWrGvJ7FkRDC&t=88 (without "what's going on" part)

1 hour ago, LoIyLips said:

Upon reaching each 5th level, there will be a choice to improve the basic characteristics of the weapon by +5% (crit chance/crit damage/status chance) / +10% to the basic multi-shot. Perhaps one of the upgrade options could be to add one physical damage: hit/slash/pierce. This progression will allow the old weapon to sparkle in a new way, and will allow the new one to become even more comfortable. This may seem like a pseudo incarnon adapter for all weapons, but I think it’s not so. I am sure EVERY player who likes this or that weapon will want to make it as comfortable as possible, regardless of whether it is strong or weak. It is possible to add any unique decorations for weapons during this progression, of course this is all at your discretion.

Maybe some limit like "max crit chance is 30%". It probably would need some fine tune. As fast hitting weapons can reach decent enough crit fast enough but slow could use even more crit chance (e.g. up to 50%).

Impact/Slash/Puncture is nice. Especially impact as you would be able to proc Hemorrhage.

And I would add other stats like:

- combo duration

- range (like 2-5 meters but up to some limits)

- other elements (toxic, corrosive, viral, blast etc)

 

[LoIyLips]

9 минут назад, quxier сказал:

https://youtu.be/6NXnxTNIWkc?si=ef5WUWrGvJ7FkRDC&t=88 (without "what's going on" part)

Maybe some limit like "max crit chance is 30%". It probably would need some fine tune. As fast hitting weapons can reach decent enough crit fast enough but slow could use even more crit chance (e.g. up to 50%).

Impact/Slash/Puncture is nice. Especially impact as you would be able to proc Hemorrhage.

And I would add other stats like:

- combo duration

- range (like 2-5 meters but up to some limits)

- other elements (toxic, corrosive, viral, blast etc)

 

The first normal comment) Yes, it is quite possible to limit this, for example, to a maximum of 2 improvements of the same type.
Combo duration, range, etc. can also be done.
I only disagree with the combined damage types, it's too strong.

[quxier]

1 hour ago, LoIyLips said:

I only disagree with the combined damage types, it's too strong.

I don't think it's too strong.

[MarakViri]

18 hours ago, LoIyLips said:

I would like to upgrade weapons not only with mods, but also with killing mobs or synthesis for killings. Weapon proficiency level - WPL will have 25 progression levels in which there are 5 main levels: 5-10-15-20-25:

conditionally:
Level 1 - 100 kills and 250k synthesis
Level 2 - 200 kills and 500k synthesis
Level 3 - 300 kills and 750k synthesis
Level 4 - 400 kills and 1 million synthesis
Level 5 - 500 kills and 2 million synthesis
Level 6 -> Level 9: from 600 kills to 5k kills, from 3 million synthesis to 5 million
Level 10 - 6k kills and 6 million synthesis
Level 11 -> Level 14: from 7k kills to 12k kills, from 7 million synthesis to 12 million
Level 15 - 12.5k kills and 12.5 million synthesis
Level 16 -> Level 19: from 14k kills to 24k kills, from 14 million synthesis to 24 million
Level 20 - 25k kills and 25 million synthesis
Level 21 -> Level 24: from 26k kills to 48k kills, from 26 million synthesis to 48 million
Level 25 - 50k kills and 50 million synthesis

Every 5th level, you will need to insert the form into the weapon to receive a bonus to basic characteristics.

Upon reaching each 5th level, there will be a choice to improve the basic characteristics of the weapon by +5% (crit chance/crit damage/status chance) / +10% to the basic multi-shot. Perhaps one of the upgrade options could be to add one physical damage: hit/slash/pierce. This progression will allow the old weapon to sparkle in a new way, and will allow the new one to become even more comfortable. This may seem like a pseudo incarnon adapter for all weapons, but I think it’s not so. I am sure EVERY player who likes this or that weapon will want to make it as comfortable as possible, regardless of whether it is strong or weak. It is possible to add any unique decorations for weapons during this progression, of course this is all at your discretion.

Okay, so, as far as the general idea goes (Weapon Proficiency), I support it wholeheartedly. Something like this could be, functionally, a better weapon balancing system than the Riven system, provided the Characteristics Changes (which I'm picturing similarly to the Incarnon Levels) would be individualised to each weapon themselves, with them potentially being mutually exclusive with the Incarnon Adapters. Ideally, the Incarnon Adaptor would not need to be fully mutually exclusive, as their could be a toggle between the two within the arsenal (Enable/Disable Incarnon Adaptor). This would allow you to choose between Incarnon Form + Boosts, and the new Proficiency Boosts (which would likely be stronger).

Of course, each weapon would likely need to have individualised Characteristic Improvements, in both values and the features themselves (as well as weapon versions as the Incarnon Boosts and Rivens also differentiate). This would require more work on DE's part, but would ultimately result in a better system.

Given that you've suggested 25 levels, and a total of 5 Characteristic Buffs, this would visually appear similar to Incarnon Adaptors as well, allowing all weapons to become viable if built correctly (and used enough), though I do argue that the means of gaining proficiency would likely also need to be altered for certain weapons. Additionally, you show now real rewards for any levels other than levels 5-10-15-20-25.

Instead, I would argue for having only six levels (akin to the Incarnon Adaptors) just to streamline the process, with exponential requirements (as well as potentially having weapon specific challenges). However, weapon versions (such as regular and Primed Variants) would be entirely separate (unlike with Incarnon Adaptors), due to having different statistics.

 Let's use the [Hystrix] as an example. The first level requirements could be something like 500 Kills, and 500,000 XP (functionally level 31.5) to unlock the ability to perform the first challenge; inflict 250 ETCH status effects (Electric, Toxin, Cold, Heat). This would be easy for this weapon, as each shot has a 100% chance to do this (and therefore this challenge is basically just "land 250 shots". Completing this challenge would give you your first Characteristic change. Something like, "Increase Critical Chance by +6%", "Switch Puncture Damage and Slash Damage" and "Increase Reload Speed by 25% (+ Khora (Prime) has a 20%(+12%) chance to instantly reload on headshot)". The fifth level could be the addition of an elemental type for certain weapons (or elemental combinations), or adding forced procs (such as a forced Electric Proc on the [Prova] on a Heavy Attack).

The first five challenges would provide characteristic improvements, whereas the sixth (achieved at maximum weapon experience (as listed in the profile)) would unlock an exclusive skin (or possibly the Conclave Skin, making them obtainable for the people that don't play conclave, but that might get backlash from the conclave players). This would be sufficiently grindy for it to reward Conclave Skins (or new exclusives) but not time-gated or restricted, allowing players to gain them at their own speed (no matter how fast or slow that happens to be).

To summarise, as long as the upgrades (and their values) are targeted to the weapons (and variants), this is viable (no-one cares if the [Stug] gains +500% base damage, but giving it magnetic and gas, and upping its multi-shot and status chance might allow it to act as a good primer).

Edited March 27 by MarakViri

[voltocitygel]

I’m always for more equipment upgrades / customization, but the important part is to make them have diminishing returns.

warframe is a game about having fun with a variety of warframes and weapons, and changing things up is important to the game. You can see this looking at the mastery system, equipment buffs for arbitrations and archon hunts, duviri, and even some sortie conditions; they all encourage the player to try / build as many different weapons as possible.
If there is ever a system introduced that makes it more effective to only ever use one weapon, rather than acquire and forma/mod a variety of weapons, the game would be in competition with itself. 
I do like the idea of proficiency in some form though, then your gear that you enjoy using becomes more relevant as you use it. Honestly, this type of system may have made more sense than rivens when it comes to trying to “level the playing field” between old and new weapons. If introduced id prefer to see it without a resource cost so all players could benefit, regardless of where they are at in the game. To make it more new player friendly, maybe if you get a better variant of a weapon, you could transfer a certain amount of the proficiency over, since they are (for the most part) identical mechanically.
So long as there are diminishing returns in either level gained or stat boost, I don’t think it matters too much how many levels are allowed, or whether they’re unlocked with xp, kills, or by completing challenges like you do for incarnon weapons. 

of course, incarnon adapters are a thing now, and they really breathe new life into old weapons, whether you use the new mode or not. I feel like this could coexist with that system, so long as it (proficiency) did not overshadow it (incarnon genesis).

[Pakaku]

Plain kills are boring and lame, I want something that shows my proficiency in skills like making headshots.

[LoIyLips]

1 час назад, Pakaku сказал:

Plain kills are boring and lame, I want something that shows my proficiency in skills like making headshots.

Skill in hovering the mouse over the head? Are you kidding? This is not a counter strike where aim is important

[MarakViri]

1 hour ago, Pakaku said:

Plain kills are boring and lame, I want something that shows my proficiency in skills like making headshots.

Assuming that a Proficiency System was implemented, they could have it be expanded to have certain milestone requirements for the options though. An example would be having the requirement of "Kill 1000 Eximus Units with Headshots" in order to choose the proficiency upgrade of "Headshots gain 50% increased Critical Chance and +1.5x Critical Multiplier" or something. My understanding of this proposal was some kind of combination of the Incarnon and Riven systems, so that would certainly be doable.

Heck, each weapon could have "skill branches" if they really wanted to go through all the effort (though it would get negated fairly quickly as players discover the new "best" weapons), where the options are determined by your playstyle.

They could also do a deep dive, and simply have the requirements for upgrading be something as simple as "Kill 100 Enemies with this weapon", but have the game track how you kill the enemies, and provide increases based on that, such as a straight Damage Boost, Headshot Multiplier, Status Damage/Duration, or so on. 

Honestly, this entire thing seems unlikely anyway, but it's fun to think about.