35.5.3 changes to Dante

[(XBOX)toughdragon17]

2 minutes ago, OneOmniverse said:

Exactly they pander to the minority and not the majority who are giving. Them the money 

Then I think the majority should stop giving them money and playing there game and see if they want to listen after they start losing money

[BelialUr]

2 minutes ago, (XBOX)toughdragon17 said:

Then I think the majority should stop giving them money and playing there game and see if they want to listen after they start losing money

This. Starting voting with your wallet and they will listen. I'm def gonna see if I can refund my Tennocon ticket cuz this is a horrible kneejerk reaction that they absolutely have no intention of fixing.

[80s_Speed_Metal]

Ravioli Donatello

[Mr5Plate]

"Here's all those changes that NOBODY asked for, have fun!"  -DE

I'm done with this game for a while.  

This is embarrassing.

[AshlynniiBrackets]

Holy mother of recklessness, Batman. And I mean reckless... or at least very "knee-jerk".

Warframe Line-Of-Sight (Derogatory). That's the big thing I'm seeing here yet again, this game's Line-of-Sight system(s) are almost non-functional, if not outright detrimental to even basic non-nuke abilities much of the time because of its code wonkiness. There's two (or more?) different types of LoS, but they're both a complete mess that is so jank at best that it tends to knee-cap abilities that have the check applied to them without being built with them in mind from the start (I haven't seen anybody complain about Dark Verse's LoS compared to the new Tragedy LoS), and the things that they're applied to are inconsistent. People have mentioned a multitude of other "nuke-frames" that never got LoS checks for their premiere abilities despite their infamy. If DE ever works on another "wide-spread fix" after the multi-year effort of fixing Sticky Corners, then the multitude of LoS systems need to be worked on, because not being able to hit an enemy because only one of their feet is blocked from my camera by another enemy's gib is asinine.

And from what I can tell, this pass didn't even fix the issue that Chroma + Hunter Adrenaline/Rage + Arcane Grace users were complaining about to begin with, being that Overguard blocks their activation due to them being based on taking health damage, so an enthusiastic rando Dante casting their Overguard could easily screw over builds that aren't even that niche. The problem isn't Dante himself, the problem is how Overguard interacts with health-damage-based things. Nerfing how much Overguard Dante gives to his teammates doesn't fix that, and they still applied the nerf to Dante's self-Overguard. It's Overguard that needs tweaking, not Dante's application of it. What use is a Support ability that can't properly support?

[Waeleto]

So any warframe who is new is obviously gonna be played a lot even caliban was every where when he was new, when you decided to nerf dante 5 days after he was released what kind of data did you possibly have ? was the ONLY data a group of players not happy on the forums ? realistically how many were those players ? 50 ? 100 ? how much is that in the scope of warframe playerbase ?

Did you read the 30-pages of feedback/discussions/suggestions that happened since you announced the nerfs ? because really everything you did didn't solve a SINGLE issue pointed out by players it just made dante feel bad to play.

What happened to "small tweaks" and instead we get an entire page of changes ? what happened to the dev blog post that you were gonna post BEFORE the patch drops so we can have the "dante conversation" and discuss it ?

You have lost my trust as a player, i bought Dante with plat and i will NEVER buy any warframes with plat again.

[Senpai-Of-Food]

gg DE one week is all you gave him how sad, you shouldve given him atleast a month or 2 and then gather all your bs data and see if he realy was to strong or whatever.

i did a 90min survival with inaros while a team mate was playing dante and guess what i had over 3k kills and dante had like 1500 kills, maybe next time actualy try playing your game like most of us then youll see most nerfs you guys do are just bs.

and the nezha augment nerf was also not needed i have barely seen any nezha's the last week to begin with just saying.

so do your part and do an uno reverse on this stuff ty.

 

[Vermillion-Code]

5 minutes ago, BelialUr said:

This. Starting voting with your wallet and they will listen. I'm def gonna see if I can refund my Tennocon ticket cuz this is a horrible kneejerk reaction that they absolutely have no intention of fixing.

Steam doesn't refund digital goods so we can't exactly refund the stuff we already got.

[2wentyThre3]

My direct findings on my build while generating Overguard.

Overguard generation using Light Verse and Triumph.
Cast strings, amounts and times pre and post nerf:

2,2,4 - 2,2,4 // Maximum OG in 6 casts costing 310 energy in total and approx 5 seconds cast time.

2,2,4 - 2,2,4 - 2,2,4 - 2,2,4 - 2,2,4 - 2,2,4 // Maximum OG in 18 casts costing 930 energy in total and approx 20 seconds cast time.

(128% Duration 45% efficiency 175% Range 343% Strength) Build was not changed after Nerf.


Those of a more observant manner amongst you will notice this is more like a 300% nerf than it is 50% - or at least that's how it turned out for me.

[BelialUr]

1 minute ago, Vermillion-Code said:

Steam doesn't refund digital goods so we can't exactly refund the stuff we already got.

Yeah it sucks. Tennocon ticket was brought from a the Warframe website tho

Edited April 4 by BelialUr
Changed

[Regular_World]

Not to sound too harsh but theses changes are pretty horrible. After being out for only a week Dante would always have a high playrate, of course the players will gravitate to him, so there should have been maybe a bit more time to study the data a bit more.

In my opinion if the nerfs were garanteed to happen, they shouldn't have happened like this, what made Dante disruptive in team play was not the damage he could deal, but the overguard he gives allies. So what i think should be done, in my opinion, is:

-Revert the Final Verse’s “Tragedy”  changes, or atleast make the LOS checking very forgiving;

-Keep the Final Verse’s “Triumph” nerfs and reduce the cap of overguard on allies by half, (or something like reduce the cap by 25% and it scales with strength).

[MasterMined95TTV]

Terrible nerf a thing the height of my frame with an enemy on the other side while im literally staring at his head doesnt get nuked. like how does that work? Why nerf the damage ability you can't afk it. If anything you have to be more aware of whats going on with Dante vs Saryn as Saryn I just kind of move around every so often cast the first ability and then the fourth ability and just watch everything die. Dante I had to constantly get energy and constantly cast the Dark Verse followed by you guessed it another Dark verse followed by Final Verse. For a single nuking ability I need to use 3 abilities. You said you guys didn't want the first five days of Dante to be the only good days well you kind of already did that didn't you. You nerfed him more then the tiny tweaks you promised. I got back into the game a couple months ago and was really enjoying the new stuff added like Duviri Deimos Zariman and Dante when he was released a week ago. Now I don't even want to play again after this. I got four of my friends into this game especially after Dante came out just for this to get nerfed making me question anything revolving this game yet again. You can't say how much you like "how overpowered" a frame is then proceed to #*!% it up? doesnt make any sense.

[Waeleto]

3 minutes ago, 2wentyThre3 said:

My direct findings on my build while generating Overguard.

Overguard generation using Light Verse and Triumph.
Cast strings, amounts and times pre and post nerf:

2,2,4 - 2,2,4 // Maximum OG in 6 casts costing 310 energy in total and approx 5 seconds cast time.

2,2,4 - 2,2,4 - 2,2,4 - 2,2,4 - 2,2,4 - 2,2,4 // Maximum OG in 18 casts costing 930 energy in total and approx 20 seconds cast time.

(128% Duration 45% efficiency 175% Range 343% Strength) Build was not changed after Nerf.


Those of a more observant manner amongst you will notice this is more like a 300% nerf than it is 50% - or at least that's how it turned out for me.

I'm glad someone else noticed this, the overguard changes are a devastating nerf, he's absolutely worse than styanax now

[Cloudwalker71]

Sorry guys. I don’t usually post but felt I had to add my voice this time. You nerfed Dante too much. All of the nerfs were too much. Like Reb reiterated in the dev short, this is a power fantasy game! You basically took away the fantasy. Way too heavy handed nerfs. Tragedy is literally a tragedy. A DESK STOPS IT. A. DESK. How many desks are there in the labs tiles? Railings? Corners? Nooks and alcoves? I haven’t even tried but I bet bushes in open worlds stop it too. Triumph no longer feels like a triumph. It’s just meh. Wordwarden? No time, only have time and energy for spamming verse and tragedy and praying it lands. 

please revert these nerfs and really take the time to do it right. I spent 8 forma on Dante and Noctua and now Dante is no fun to play anymore.
 

Please revert and reassess.

Edited April 4 by Cloudwalker71

[Taloh]

Dante came out in a good state. Not acceptable or OK, but good. He was a competent Warframe with some flaws which I will break down in a second but the fact that Dominance means people whining cause their main is slightly degraded in effective efficiency or content creators using hyperbolic language in creations we will get no good Warframes into the future. I'm worried about Jade now and have no intention of ever rushing a Warframe again with this philosophy in mind. Now lets compare Dante and Styanax two close in functionality frames that share many attributes.

Dante:

• Pros:
  • Overguard for the squad
  • Healing overguard during rotation
  • Taunt on enemies
  • Status buffing allies
  • Reliable status damage to allies
  • Good map clear
• Cons:
  • Could not deal with status immunities
  • Ability reliant and energy dependant
  • Needed investment of Archon Shards

Styanax:

• Pros:
  • Overguard for the squad
  • Infinite energy for the squad
  • Impressive damage capabilities
  • Viral interaction from Helminth
  • Air Superiority
  • Armor Strip
• Cons:
  • Can not cast abilities during Ult spam
  • Cool down dependent and needs initial energy investment
  • Incredibly efficient Helminth

Styanax also met a similar fate as Dante being released in a good state, and having a fun game play loop. He was then given to every active player. This is not Dominance. The t in your calculations is too short. The dominance of a Warframe should at least be from Mainline update to Mainline update this Nerf is unwarranted and from community feedback that does not represent people who have actively tested the frame. The feedback from this LR3 community member is that you have once again nerfed a good frame to be a B ranker with serious weaknesses in his kit. Revenant and his dumbass 4 is still allowed to exist with the frame having 20-40 seconds of refreshable Invulnerability not even the necessary upkeep of Overguard. At most Dante needed the removal of Teammates status buffs applying to his 4. This lead to the damage number people could see being stacked against them. This Nerf is heinous and means Dante no longer deals relevant damage to the map. He is now a cone Warframe where he was a reliable tile clear before that. Since that attitude at DE is that this Nerf cannot be undone lets talk what we can have back. The LOS changes talked about at time of posting seem like a half measure from the effect of the Nerf, if we are going to keep these values it should have the effect of transferring the status of those in the LOS to eachother ie the Nezha agment. The slash procs of Dark Verse are not high enough in the case the afore mentioned change for enemies that resist them making your options completely disintegrated from the point of using his one where before his kit was holistic. Keep in mind I think a lot of the community will be heated about this change due to the bait and switch of releasing a good Warframe and then destroying half their effective kit. We've seen it with Styanax and you're doing it again with Dante. Once bitten twice shy but Fool me twice shame on you. This is a bad take and a worse result for people who put time, effort and worse money into this system. With the business model moving to these smaller pack releases with the Warframe coming out I was excited to put money into this game. For the above listed reason this puts my feelings on that in serious Jeopardy. The new team has built considerable good will with the ONLY negative being the overnerf of Dissipate. This is a serious burn of that goodwill for no good reason. To put it plainly please revert this Nerf. Otherwise please make it less cataclysmic impactful to a very good frame.

[Waeleto]

The whole thing needs to be reverted and visited back maybe in like 3 months or so, they CAN'T have data to nerf a warframe 5 days after his release it physically not possible, they listened to the loud minority on the forums

[RevanOfTheSith]

5 minutes ago, 2wentyThre3 said:

My direct findings on my build while generating Overguard.

Overguard generation using Light Verse and Triumph.
Cast strings, amounts and times pre and post nerf:

2,2,4 - 2,2,4 // Maximum OG in 6 casts costing 310 energy in total and approx 5 seconds cast time.

2,2,4 - 2,2,4 - 2,2,4 - 2,2,4 - 2,2,4 - 2,2,4 // Maximum OG in 18 casts costing 930 energy in total and approx 20 seconds cast time.

(128% Duration 45% efficiency 175% Range 343% Strength) Build was not changed after Nerf.


Those of a more observant manner amongst you will notice this is more like a 300% nerf than it is 50% - or at least that's how it turned out for me.

Completely agree with this.  This nerf to Dante has him worse than Caliban now.  Does this mean you are going to nerf Saryn?  Nezha?  Octavia?  Mesa?

Honestly, Dante's stats are also lower than most of these frames.  The nerf's given to Dante are not warranted since you have other frames that are not nerfed and remain incredibly powerful.  It is truly disappointing that we had a wonderfully operational frame at the start and now he will sit as a paper weight with the additional forma put into him - I can't get those back.  Please, reverse the nerfs doled out to him.

[Pynkus]

Eu tinha adorado esse Warframe, mas sinceramente usa-lo agora ficou frustrante, perdeu muito da sua utilidade comparado a outros.
Odiei esses ajustes, principalmente no campo de visão da 3 do Dante e a redução de 50% de alcance na ampliação do Nezha.

[Caramello]

Here is a feedback: stop listening "feedback" from people that want things to get nerfed because they dont like when other people enjoy things.

[ThunderingRagnarok]

The tuning on his overguard mechanics was, in my opinion, a little much but overall probably fine in the long run. I am neutral on the change to echoverse and paragrim.

The line of sight change to tragedy was by far a terrible change, and makes me start to regret my grind and investment in this frame. Please revert the line of sight change, you released such a well designed frame, and i hate to see him in this state.

[KicherflipsxD]

The LOS nerf is so unjustified and puts Dante into the dirt when it comes to doing reliable damage.

There are soo many frames that can do what he could with his 4th ability 

the other nerfs I can see a point in.

The noctua buff is literally whatever but the LOS is the worst thing that could have happened and was incredibly unnecessary and ruined a fun frame.

[TheBlackAce21]

54 minutes ago, NemiTheNem said:

I wish people would stop using octavia as an example. She has LoS, but the difference is that she has duration. So enemies not being hit can get hit after.  Tragedy is instant--with a two cast set up even! Reult is trash.

This is the dumbest take I've seen. Oh no! Synergy between teammates! THE HORROR!

And I'm going to scream back against the stupidity. Mindless nuking is bad for the game from any source. It removes the need to use guns at all and trivializes lots of content. Also synergy isn't bad on it's face but synergy that allows DoT scaling into more mindless nuking at higher levels is a big problem especially with the amount of utility you are already getting from overguard. Dante just did too much overall. Now he has support overguard and good cone based LoS damage (although LoS still needs some work to be less annoying but hopefully this will highlight that and fix it for Dante AND others)

[ThunderingRagnarok]

DE, please revert the line of sight change. That nerf alone kills this frame

[Bloody_Loona]

1 minute ago, TheBlackAce21 said:

And I'm going to scream back against the stupidity. Mindless nuking is bad for the game from any source. It removes the need to use guns at all and trivializes lots of content. Also synergy isn't bad on it's face but synergy that allows DoT scaling into more mindless nuking at higher levels is a big problem especially with the amount of utility you are already getting from overguard. Dante just did too much overall. Now he has support overguard and good cone based LoS damage (although LoS still needs some work to be less annoying but hopefully this will highlight that and fix it for Dante AND others)

Hahahahha so what’s about Miarge 2nd nuke or maybe Saryn Dual ichor? Or maybe Gauss 3rd? Or let’s talk about Octavia, or Styanax augment? Let’s talk about Volt nuke, Voruna dmg cap… Let’s talk about Citrine new augment. Or maybe stop being ignorant and talking stupid things…

[Vermillion-Code]

5 minutes ago, TheBlackAce21 said:

And I'm going to scream back against the stupidity. Mindless nuking is bad for the game from any source. It removes the need to use guns at all and trivializes lots of content. Also synergy isn't bad on it's face but synergy that allows DoT scaling into more mindless nuking at higher levels is a big problem especially with the amount of utility you are already getting from overguard. Dante just did too much overall. Now he has support overguard and good cone based LoS damage (although LoS still needs some work to be less annoying but hopefully this will highlight that and fix it for Dante AND others)

Okay, remove ability nukes. Now people just use Incarnons like boar or Latron.

I think you genuinely just don't like Warframe.