35.5.3 changes to Dante

[(PSN)Thanatos-Prime]

2 hours ago, MATHIELPRIME said:

At this point I would like to congratulate the devs for such amazing buffs on Dante he is so amazing now that apparently he becomes invisible too ? Cause in all honesty I have been playing for over 7 hours and I haven't seen a single Dante wich is freaking amazing considering he is the newest frame 😂 so either he now becomes invisible or  you messed up that frame so badly no one wants to play him in high lvl missions anymore ironically the place is filled with saryn player tho ow and what a surprise none of the chroma,kulervo,inaros or nidus mains are seen either huh weird don't you think?🤔 it's almost like no one cared for those frames to begin with other than a minority wich you listened too and now that minority too went back to mesa,revenant,octavia and saryn ironic isn't it? 

Fyi: this entire thing was ironic don't come for my head 🤣 Dante is still trash and the 2-3 Dante players you might see are just trying the frame to see if the buffs worked wich they didn't the devs can just keep ignoring the comunity and just listen to their butt licker fangirls that keep idolizing them that always works great in the long run I assure you 

Correction I finally saw one almost like seeing a unicorn wow 

Wouldn't know, I legit can barely play, the console multi-player is apparently now bugged to hecks high water. Took me 10 minutes just to create a session. At starchart, can't see my clan mates online, when I do we can't invite one another 50% of the time, and oh yeah my end mission rewards keep getting jacked by nerf gremlins apparently. We cracked a few relics. Got a gauss neuro, rare drop yay full set time to sell, NOPE we finished the mission and that reward was not logged via the server so none of our 4 man got it. Angry does not describe us after that.  We managed one more, but 2 rookies had their dante parks yoinked - no loss-. 

First Dante, now this. Most of my teams are like "yup, can't play in teams or public. Rewards getting jacked, we're done byee!"  Kinda sad when like 50 people come back  after months and within 7 days every last one is buggered off. Most of my gaming org shifted back to helldivers, and long haul fun games like monster hunter, - both made by companies who love and acknowledge their fans in good ways- 

Talk about a hype killer, it's kicking a poor dead unicorn by now. It was so majestic, a shining light of fun and innovation. And you shot it, beat it with a waffle bat and threw it into a volcano which you covered with concrete and filled with steel. 

-saved me Cash though, I was gonna get a con digital pack. So thanks DE, that 25.00 I can spend on something else.  Till they fix their multi-player servers not much sense to logging in, heck I'll be shocked if I do more then pop on for 30 min on Sundays, bang out the Archon hunt and then leave till next Sunday. 

[MATHIELPRIME]

53 minutes ago, (PSN)Thanatos-Prime said:

Wouldn't know, I legit can barely play, the console multi-player is apparently now bugged to hecks high water. Took me 10 minutes just to create a session. At starchart, can't see my clan mates online, when I do we can't invite one another 50% of the time, and oh yeah my end mission rewards keep getting jacked by nerf gremlins apparently. We cracked a few relics. Got a gauss neuro, rare drop yay full set time to sell, NOPE we finished the mission and that reward was not logged via the server so none of our 4 man got it. Angry does not describe us after that.  We managed one more, but 2 rookies had their dante parks yoinked - no loss-. 

First Dante, now this. Most of my teams are like "yup, can't play in teams or public. Rewards getting jacked, we're done byee!"  Kinda sad when like 50 people come back  after months and within 7 days every last one is buggered off. Most of my gaming org shifted back to helldivers, and long haul fun games like monster hunter, - both made by companies who love and acknowledge their fans in good ways- 

Talk about a hype killer, it's kicking a poor dead unicorn by now. It was so majestic, a shining light of fun and innovation. And you shot it, beat it with a waffle bat and threw it into a volcano which you covered with concrete and filled with steel. 

-saved me Cash though, I was gonna get a con digital pack. So thanks DE, that 25.00 I can spend on something else.  Till they fix their multi-player servers not much sense to logging in, heck I'll be shocked if I do more then pop on for 30 min on Sundays, bang out the Archon hunt and then leave till next 

My condolences about the gauss part hope its some kind of bug and you will guys get your rewards eventually,I'm kinda in the same boat with you guys thinking either about quiting this God forsaken game or just prove to DE how stupid their balancing is by minmaxing stupid frames for no reason just so stupid crybabyies in public lobbies can finally see what true broken and squad disturbing truly is 😉 time will tell 

[(XBOX)Xledorn]

Hello fellow Tenno,

I wanted to share some thoughts on the recent updates, particularly the nerf to Dante. Like many of you, I've spent countless hours perfecting builds and strategies, so it’s disheartening to see a new favorite frame like Dante get significantly weakened. I had recently recommended Warframe to several friends based on how enjoyable Dante's gameplay was before this change.

I understand that balancing is crucial for the game’s health, but this recent nerf feels a bit too severe. It not only affects players who have invested time in Dante but also has ripple effects on how we perceive the stability of other frames. Such substantial changes can discourage long-term investment in any particular frame or strategy.

Moreover, I still have concerns about previous changes, like the modification to the Itzal's Blink ability. The Itzal was a unique aspect of our Archwing experience with its exceptional speed, and altering that took away a significant part of what made it enjoyable.

While I’m hopeful for future updates, I am considering taking a break to see how the next changes address the community’s feedback. I urge the developers to consider reverting the nerfs or at least adjusting them to maintain the fun and effectiveness of affected frames.

Thank you for considering our feedback as we look forward to more balanced updates.

[Stormandreas]

23 hours ago, (XBOX)toughdragon17 said:

What difficulty are you on regular or SP 

What level were the enemies 

Who was who I dont see who was which frame you could be saying there in order but using a different frame 

 

 

SP, level 800s. 51 minutes.

When I said in order, I meant left to right. I was Dante, Spellcaster was Octavia, Cappulot was Mag.

We were farming Arcanes cause I had a mod booster. Got it all on a VOD too if you want more proof of it ;) This was in Hotfix 35.5.3. Yea, the LoS did have issues, though it did not dumpster Dante like so many (and you) are parroting. The fact the LoS now works farm more consistently (and they even re-buffed his damage output), he's even more powerful than in this VoD.

Spoiler

 https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2111349013?t=4h39m50s

 

17 hours ago, MATHIELPRIME said:

Shame on you for trying to use logic and reasoning against a DE fangirl the Excalibur prime icon should tell you enough about who you are dealing with its clear as day this dude is one of those" devs are always right" kind of guy so you are just wasting your spit trying to reason with this kind of people they can't comprehend the simple fact that just cause something still has a pick rate doesn't mean It's good it just means half of the time that people just don't want to use anything else an easy example is loki does he has a good pick rate? Yes , does every loki player want a rework on him also yes ,is loki useful right now outside spy missions  ? Not even close but he still has pickrate cause of bandage mechanics like helmith and people just using crazy builds on him that's it that's they only reason he actually has any pickrates so as you can see the statistics often don't show you the full picture 😉 so playing the smart guy just cause the devs and the stats said so doesn't work if anything else he is the one probably parroting his favorite YouTube partner that said Dante is amazing Dante is fixed after the hotfixes 😂😂😂😂😂

Tldr: don't waste your time Excalibur prime icon= slow brained dev worshiper logic doesn't work on them

 

Ah, one of THOSE people are we.

I'm far from DE's "fangirl" (nice assumption there bud). I have Excal Prime yes, that's a problem now is it? That means I kiss up to DE? LOL

You couldn't be further from the truth. I will criticize DE to the ends of the earth, but with actual reason and logic, not just to throw my toys out the pram. Loki does not have a good pickrate, dunno where you're pulling that from, but it's wildly wrong.
At the end of 2023, Loki Prime had a 1.05% usage rate, vs lets say... Wukong, another widely used Spy frame, at 5.09%. Maybe actually factcheck first.
Don't wanna believe me? Look it up yourself: https://www.warframe.com/2023stats

The fact you just dismiss anyone who is a founder is kinda telling that you don't think through your feedback in any critical form, nor do you bother doing research.
If you did, you'd know everything you've just said is pulled straight from where the sun don't shine. 

 

23 hours ago, OnestarMike said:

The damage has never been the issue it's the gameplay and how the warframe feels. Many people here have even been willing to dump the base damage on Tragedy just to get LoS removed. Of course Dante performs well in terms of damage output, that's never been the issue. The issue is that it doesn't feel as good as it did on launch because of bad balancing choice.

When people here are talking about Dante being bad. They're talking about it feeling bad to play Dante. They're talking about how 1/4 of his kit has serious inconsistencies that negatively impact their experience playing the game, and ultimately incentivizes them to either twist Dante into a noctua only build, or leave the frame entirely as MR fodders because there are many frames that can do what he does better, faster, and with less investment.

The real truth is that there shouldnt be any sacrifice to dante's range nor damage to get his LoS back, because it was never a problem in the first place. I don't know who got inside DE's head about Dante being a problem but all the issues that they keep bringing up related to Dante are either present in several other frames (AOE nuke), or outside mechanics like overguard and LoS that Dante brought to light, but are not him inherently causing the problems. But here we are, and the frame's overall fluidity and gameplay feeling have been cripple because of it. It could be the most damaging frame in the game but I bet you if this LoS issue doesn't get fixed he'll be sitting in the grave alongside that Octavia statistic.

While I can get the frame feeling bad, that came from 2 things mostly.

Slow casting speed
and the LoS system being a little janky

That didn't make Dante bad, it stemmed from the LoS system being old. The problem here is that the ones crying out are just crying about Dante, and were entirely missing the real issue. The LoS system was old, and needed reviewed.

DE noticed this, and have begun remediating this as we've seen.

I'm curious to see these inconsistencies in 1/4 of Dantes kit, as currently, his entire kit works the same. They all are consistent with LoS, they all are the same (other than the known LoS system issues of the frame blocking itself, and FPS determining damage. These are already known issues that are being worked on).

I can agree that the LoS not being there wasn't a problem before, as Dark Verse, did require LoS, which then forced Tragedy to inadvertantly also require LoS. Having LoS on Tragedy, then becomes a little bit of a moot point other than "The LoS system itself was bugged", but again, what keeps being brought up is the Dante nerfs as the main topic rather than solely focussing on the LoS system.

What is quite amusing in all this though, is the LoS system wasn't an issue until now. So much in the game uses the LoS system already, including Octavia, who, if we go by the WF 2023 stats, was 14th place (prime) in the top used frames. I don't see Octavias statistics being in the grave there by any means.

Edited April 13 by Stormandreas

[OneOmniverse]

23 hours ago, OnestarMike said:

It sets a super bad precedent for the future and is why I'm not going to continue playing personally. It's going to hurt sales, it's going to hurt future frame releases, and it's going to hurt the overall playerbase. It's not the first time but Dante being my favorite frame with a perfect release was the straw that broke it all. It's entirely possible we may even get situations now where people dont use the 50plat to rush because they have no idea if DE is just going to nuke it into the ground.

Anyone excited about Jade should be super reserved and careful going into her release because what happened to Dante is a real tragedy one might say.

exactly this. the damage is done and ppl won't be as naive as they were this time, it's going to hurt sales and I hope it does they need to be brought down a peg.

 

23 hours ago, OnestarMike said:

The damage has never been the issue it's the gameplay and how the warframe feels. Many people here have even been willing to dump the base damage on Tragedy just to get LoS removed. Of course Dante performs well in terms of damage output, that's never been the issue. The issue is that it doesn't feel as good as it did on launch because of bad balancing choice.

When people here are talking about Dante being bad. They're talking about it feeling bad to play Dante. They're talking about how 1/4 of his kit has serious inconsistencies that negatively impact their experience playing the game, and ultimately incentivizes them to either twist Dante into a noctua only build, or leave the frame entirely as MR fodders because there are many frames that can do what he does better, faster, and with less investment.

The real truth is that there shouldnt be any sacrifice to dante's range nor damage to get his LoS back, because it was never a problem in the first place. I don't know who got inside DE's head about Dante being a problem but all the issues that they keep bringing up related to Dante are either present in several other frames (AOE nuke), or outside mechanics like overguard and LoS that Dante brought to light, but are not him inherently causing the problems. But here we are, and the frame's overall fluidity and gameplay feeling have been cripple because of it. It could be the most damaging frame in the game but I bet you if this LoS issue doesn't get fixed he'll be sitting in the grave alongside that Octavia statistic.

it makes no sense it's so baffling. As devs, it should have been so simple to fix what the problem was instead they created several new problems and on top of that added a mechanic that they knew was buggy and a mechanic no one wants in the game and the fact that they keep trying to force it to work shows the lack of respect they have for their community and the game itself.

 

15 hours ago, MATHIELPRIME said:

At this point I would like to congratulate the devs for such amazing buffs on Dante he is so amazing now that apparently he becomes invisible too ? Cause in all honesty I have been playing for over 7 hours and I haven't seen a single Dante wich is freaking amazing considering he is the newest frame 😂 so either he now becomes invisible or  you messed up that frame so badly no one wants to play him in high lvl missions anymore ironically the place is filled with saryn player tho ow and what a surprise none of the chroma,kulervo,inaros or nidus mains are seen either huh weird don't you think?🤔 it's almost like no one cared for those frames to begin with other than a minority wich you listened too and now that minority too went back to mesa,revenant,octavia and saryn ironic isn't it? 

Fyi: this entire thing was ironic don't come for my head 🤣 Dante is still trash and the 2-3 Dante players you might see are just trying the frame to see if the buffs worked wich they didn't the devs can just keep ignoring the comunity and just listen to their butt licker fangirls that keep idolizing them that always works great in the long run I assure you 

Correction I finally saw one almost like seeing a unicorn wow 

omg lmao i noticed this too lol they are non-existent unless you in a hub like Maroo or a Relay,but in missions nah u get none or one other than u of course bruh lol wtf he's so gone its so sad XD They really messed up a two week old frame and he's already shelved XD can't make this up when your seeing it for yourself in 4K

13 hours ago, (XBOX)toughdragon17 said:

Iv seen so many people sit there and ask for LOS to be removed eather from Dante (which i support) or other frames (which on surtent frames i support) and there has yet to be any acknowledgement from the devs or any posts stating any about LOS They seem to be extremely deff to there comunity and what they want with over 100+ pages and 1000+ comments id say our voice is clear we want LOD removed from Dante and eather his range dimed to maby 25 to 20 or the base damage removed 

LOS is a horrible mechanic that shouldn't be pushed onto us 

exactly tone deaf to the max 

 

12 hours ago, (PSN)Thanatos-Prime said:

Wouldn't know, I legit can barely play, the console multi-player is apparently now bugged to hecks high water. Took me 10 minutes just to create a session. At starchart, can't see my clan mates online, when I do we can't invite one another 50% of the time, and oh yeah my end mission rewards keep getting jacked by nerf gremlins apparently. We cracked a few relics. Got a gauss neuro, rare drop yay full set time to sell, NOPE we finished the mission and that reward was not logged via the server so none of our 4 man got it. Angry does not describe us after that.  We managed one more, but 2 rookies had their dante parks yoinked - no loss-. 

First Dante, now this. Most of my teams are like "yup, can't play in teams or public. Rewards getting jacked, we're done byee!"  Kinda sad when like 50 people come back  after months and within 7 days every last one is buggered off. Most of my gaming org shifted back to helldivers, and long haul fun games like monster hunter, - both made by companies who love and acknowledge their fans in good ways- 

Talk about a hype killer, it's kicking a poor dead unicorn by now. It was so majestic, a shining light of fun and innovation. And you shot it, beat it with a waffle bat and threw it into a volcano which you covered with concrete and filled with steel. 

-saved me Cash though, I was gonna get a con digital pack. So thanks DE, that 25.00 I can spend on something else.  Till they fix their multi-player servers not much sense to logging in, heck I'll be shocked if I do more then pop on for 30 min on Sundays, bang out the Archon hunt and then leave till next Sunday. 

same I was this close to getting that pack as I wanted the platinum and the syandana but I'm glad I waited de spat on me enough no need for me to buy anything more from them ever lol that 25 bucks will be used for gigantic or some other new steam game .

7 hours ago, (XBOX)Xledorn said:

Hello fellow Tenno,

I wanted to share some thoughts on the recent updates, particularly the nerf to Dante. Like many of you, I've spent countless hours perfecting builds and strategies, so it’s disheartening to see a new favorite frame like Dante get significantly weakened. I had recently recommended Warframe to several friends based on how enjoyable Dante's gameplay was before this change.

I understand that balancing is crucial for the game’s health, but this recent nerf feels a bit too severe. It not only affects players who have invested time in Dante but also has ripple effects on how we perceive the stability of other frames. Such substantial changes can discourage long-term investment in any particular frame or strategy.

Moreover, I still have concerns about previous changes, like the modification to the Itzal's Blink ability. The Itzal was a unique aspect of our Archwing experience with its exceptional speed, and altering that took away a significant part of what made it enjoyable.

While I’m hopeful for future updates, I am considering taking a break to see how the next changes address the community’s feedback. I urge the developers to consider reverting the nerfs or at least adjusting them to maintain the fun and effectiveness of affected frames.

Thank you for considering our feedback as we look forward to more balanced updates.

yup many others have done the same Don't blame them :/

[OnestarMike]

6 hours ago, Stormandreas said:

While I can get the frame feeling bad, that came from 2 things mostly.

Slow casting speed
and the LoS system being a little janky

That didn't make Dante bad, it stemmed from the LoS system being old. The problem here is that the ones crying out are just crying about Dante, and were entirely missing the real issue. The LoS system was old, and needed reviewed.

DE noticed this, and have begun remediating this as we've seen.

I'm curious to see these inconsistencies in 1/4 of Dantes kit, as currently, his entire kit works the same. They all are consistent with LoS, they all are the same (other than the known LoS system issues of the frame blocking itself, and FPS determining damage. These are already known issues that are being worked on).

I can agree that the LoS not being there wasn't a problem before, as Dark Verse, did require LoS, which then forced Tragedy to inadvertantly also require LoS. Having LoS on Tragedy, then becomes a little bit of a moot point other than "The LoS system itself was bugged", but again, what keeps being brought up is the Dante nerfs as the main topic rather than solely focussing on the LoS system.

What is quite amusing in all this though, is the LoS system wasn't an issue until now. So much in the game uses the LoS system already, including Octavia, who, if we go by the WF 2023 stats, was 14th place (prime) in the top used frames. I don't see Octavias statistics being in the grave there by any means.

Slow casting speed has not been an issue. Slap on 2 yellow shards and it feels nice.

I still think saying LoS is a little janky is underselling it. It's better but "consistently inconsistent" doesn't bode well for a good player experience. Dante's debacle only highlighted how bad LoS in general is. LoS wasn't a major issue before because honestly it doesn't impact other frames as much as something like dante's tragedy. It's good that they're working on it now, but it still doesn't change the fact that LoS on tragedy will never feel good, even if it's perfect.

I think this person's post sums up the general experience that I'm trying to convey

 For a TLDR: The nature of warframe as a game currently rewards preparation for big payoffs. Most warframes operate like this. Dante's tragedy is meant to be the finisher to this preparation. And if all your setup ends up failing because a lamp got in the way, it creates a pretty severe negative experience, no matter how frequent it happens. And the problem is that with LoS, there will always be a time where it happens. DE can never escape this fact.

20 hours ago, Intotsu said:

The reason I bring up this title is that, despite the fact that I've been following this discussion for a while, I haven't seen this particular part of the Line of Sight addition that makes it feel particularly bad, which is the following combination of things.

• Warframe is a (highly) mobility focused game
• Despite being slow, Dante is a Mage themed warframe designed with the above in mind.

This, to my mind, is the particular difficulty of adding line of sight to the mix when it comes to Dante. Like most warframes with abilities, Dante is designed to use his abilities on the move. And in nearly all cases they work well for use on the move.
 

1. Noctua is a weapon, and all weapons are designed to be used on the move.
2. Light verse applied to all allies linked by affinity to you (Same with Triumph) making it more reliant on proximity than movement.
3. Dark verse applies to essentially the enemies you're looking at, meaning if you miss you need to change your aim and cast again.
4. Pageflight relies on personal proximity since the birds always fly near you and Wordwarden functions with affinity range on casting again.

This of course leaves Tragedy as the odd one out. Because for Tragedy, being a primary damage dealing ability that triggers off of damaging status effects, movement can mess up things royally when Line of sight is involved.

One of the best aspects of this game is the movement system. Were it up to me as a designer, I would make the continued use of the parkour system the primary means of evading damage across the board as it is the most fun aspect of the system and also makes the most sense in my head. That being said, one cool thing to do when you play any warframe is casting/shooting attacking on the fly with an airglide to deal damage to enemies and follow it it up to continue moving as you attack enemies continuously, regardless of how you do it.

With Dante, doing the priming with other spells/attacks and then casting a devastating Tragedy was cool because, regardless of position, as long as you primed enough enemies in preparation, you didn't have to worry about making sure you were in a prime position to deal damage, only that you had done the preparation.

Now, was this insane in how fast you could clear things when not at a high level? absolutely. I would never have put base damage on something that hit enemies as far as you could with Dante (I put Stretch on him so... his already wide range became gigantic), or at most it would be 1 damage so i could use it to find out enemy positions or something. But in principle it works better that way.

However, adding Line of Sight makes positioning important, yes, but not in a way that can be easily quantified. LoS is the only reason I have had any issues with Plunder from the new and improved Hydroid for example. I cant tell you how many times I tried to either renew or set up a pillage armor boost only for it to be something as mediocre as 200 armor because, despite being surrounded by enemies, only a few of them had their armor stolen due to either geometry or, worse, my model being slightly too low to target them. The better LoS should improve this (one can hope, but it kind of emphasizes the point. For a LoS ability which originates around your character, if it is a single burst effect you want to be:

• In a set position for the burst (so you want to stop your momentum temporarily)
• that is ideal (not impeded by the setting or geometry)

If a LoS ability is omnidirectional, you can't fully take into consideration the structures around you, especially while moving, to determine the most effective location to cast it. Not easily, not in a game like Warframe which encourages movement.

This is the primary reason why LoS feels so bad on Dante. As a caster-frame with a Mage theme, his abilities are emphasized and require a multi-step process. Making the payoff for that process uncertain due to elements of the game that are both fundamental and encouraged feels discouraging. To this end, I add my vote to the following suggested change in this forum: DE, please reduce the base damage of Tragedy to 0 or 1 (for scouting purposes) and remove the Line of Sight requirement.

 

(P.S: I know this discussion may be obvious, I just haven't seen it directly talked about as a reason for the discomfort with the LoS change)

 

[(XBOX)toughdragon17]

17 hours ago, Stormandreas said:

We were farming Arcanes cause I had a mod booster. Got it all on a VOD too if you want more proof of it ;) This was in Hotfix 35.5.3. Yea, the LoS did have issues, though it did not dumpster Dante like so many (and you) are parroting. The fact the LoS now works farm more consistently (and they even re-buffed his damage output), he's even more powerful than in this VoD.

You shur arcanes drop at higher raritys with a M booster ? Or were you mos and arcane farming 

Eh im less mad now than when it first happened I had a lot going on and them messing with my fun sent me a bit over and iv been getting use to it more and more so sorry if iv sounded like a hardhead (this is also to anyone reading this i have my opinions you have yours im not saying yours is wrong im just a little more aggressive with mine lately) lately when I get worked up i say my opinions more aggressively than usual and sorry if iv accused you of anything (I was told by someone the next day that reads over my text do to a spelling disorder that I may have acted in an accusatory manor) he is better now but still feels a bit off to me los dos work better but still has its flaws they out likely will fix 

Edited April 14 by (XBOX)toughdragon17
Fixing words

[(PSN)Thanatos-Prime]

33 minutes ago, (XBOX)toughdragon17 said:

You shur arcanes drop at higher raritys with a M booster ? Or were you mos and arcane farming 

Eh im less mad now than when it first happened I had a lot going on and them messing with my fun sent me a bit over and iv been getting use to it more and more so sorry if iv sounded like an a@# (this is also to anyone reading this i have my opinions you have yours im not saying yours is wrong im just a little more aggressive with mine lately) lately when I get worked up i say my opinions more aggressively than usual and sorry if iv accused you of anything (I was told by someone the next day that reads over my text do to a spelling disorder that I may have acted in an accusatory manor) he is better now but still feels a bit off to me los dos work better but still has its flaws they out likely will fix 

Accuse away. By all means. Coddling and forgiving catastrophic pork ups is what leads to this whole crap fest. DE is a business, they want to make money. They do so via add revinue on streaming, investors and US the players happily giving our money fir Plat and store options.  If they never face true backlash, just a watered down happy dappy " you tried its OK niw thanks" nothing will ever get done or change. None of your posts were accusatory, they were POINTED there's a difference. The sames true for most every unhappy, unsatisfied post I've read. POINTED CRITICISM. Laser focused on the blaring Kaiju sized mistakes, that keep happening because players go, "OK I'm sorry I was mean" nope, criticism can be mean, if your not capable of accepting that. 

Look, I'm what they may consider a "Whale" , I run a large clan with lots of affiliated members, me and my founders, we like helping. And we like bringing joy, if a hard up member is down in the emotional dumps we gave and do gift them bundles, Plat, prime parts, whatever. And no not bragging, just saying we SPEND BANK to help our crews. But after this? That banks gone, actions have consequences, our crew of Whales have moved along and were 100% free to play. 

Nothing will ever alter if we just roll over. They've proven they do not care about verbal feedback, ok cool. I would hope your ready for the data and physical side. How's that bottom line gonna look after all the refunds? If you drive away swaths of your base? Gonna hurt con attendance for sure, advertisers might have second thoughts after a while of no stream viewership, players stop buying revinue takes a dive, might worry your investor groups. This is a very slippery slope DE has chosen. One would hope they'd recognize their choices and pivot, but I dunno. I feel like they are calling a bluff here. " We want LoS, they'll roll over and accept it"  Sorry, plenty of us won't, the bad press is rolling DE, our local game shop today was full of distaste for Warframe.  

" I heard they dumpstered another frame" "Jeeze even Riots not that bad, Bungie is even doing a bit better" "he'll I'll play a blizzard title, least then I know I'm getting garbage up front and can enjoy it a little bit" 

"Hey sony recommend me this game, um Warframe, looks cool" 8 people:" NO!" " nope dude stay away it's cancer, it's run like a mobile game" 

These are not big digital gamers, these are old school Table Top guys and gals, people you want to recruit DE, new players, and the press they are hearing from members and players is enough to turn em away. I mean if people are saying your doing worse then Riot, Bungie and Blizzard? Lord almighty that's not good.  The d20 team I was supposed to start a story for legit held a boycott. I asked em why, the reply? 

"Well we wanted a kinda warframe analog fee, like mecha shonin style  -obviously I know laws so don't at me.- but we ain't going near that. Pork them, having YouTube gaslight? Pffft no." My reply? " OK just call me next time. I'm just the Dungeon Master guys, what kinda setting do you want?"  "ANYTHING ELSE" o.o  random gamers would rather boycott on principle then acknowledge your game exists. NOT GOOD PRESS. 

DE, your community by and large is supportive as hell, and we've stomached A LOT, tolerated and accepted PLENTY of less then stellar stuff, and let's not bring up huge crap like the regal aya or heirloom fiasco ok? I would hope you'd realize, your community. Your players, your money spenders, are right here shouting at you in a vain effort to show you a simple path back to a modicum of trust and good will. We're legit telling you how you can make all this bad press go away and rebuild a bit of trust and appreciation. We wanted to give you that DE, how many posts have we all read of late asking, but ending with something like "Thanks for the hard work DE I still enjoy your game mostly" PLENTY. I think by and large most of us WANT DE to pivot and we are angry and irked that they can't see the big blaring warning lights. Specially since we are the ones shouting and holding the bloody things.

[MATHIELPRIME]

12 hours ago, Stormandreas said:

SP, level 800s. 51 minutes.

When I said in order, I meant left to right. I was Dante, Spellcaster was Octavia, Cappulot was Mag.

We were farming Arcanes cause I had a mod booster. Got it all on a VOD too if you want more proof of it ;) This was in Hotfix 35.5.3. Yea, the LoS did have issues, though it did not dumpster Dante like so many (and you) are parroting. The fact the LoS now works farm more consistently (and they even re-buffed his damage output), he's even more powerful than in this VoD.

  Reveal hidden contents

 https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2111349013?t=4h39m50s

 

Ah, one of THOSE people are we.

I'm far from DE's "fangirl" (nice assumption there bud). I have Excal Prime yes, that's a problem now is it? That means I kiss up to DE? LOL

You couldn't be further from the truth. I will criticize DE to the ends of the earth, but with actual reason and logic, not just to throw my toys out the pram. Loki does not have a good pickrate, dunno where you're pulling that from, but it's wildly wrong.
At the end of 2023, Loki Prime had a 1.05% usage rate, vs lets say... Wukong, another widely used Spy frame, at 5.09%. Maybe actually factcheck first.
Don't wanna believe me? Look it up yourself: https://www.warframe.com/2023stats

The fact you just dismiss anyone who is a founder is kinda telling that you don't think through your feedback in any critical form, nor do you bother doing research.
If you did, you'd know everything you've just said is pulled straight from where the sun don't shine. 

 

While I can get the frame feeling bad, that came from 2 things mostly.

Slow casting speed
and the LoS system being a little janky

That didn't make Dante bad, it stemmed from the LoS system being old. The problem here is that the ones crying out are just crying about Dante, and were entirely missing the real issue. The LoS system was old, and needed reviewed.

DE noticed this, and have begun remediating this as we've seen.

I'm curious to see these inconsistencies in 1/4 of Dantes kit, as currently, his entire kit works the same. They all are consistent with LoS, they all are the same (other than the known LoS system issues of the frame blocking itself, and FPS determining damage. These are already known issues that are being worked on).

I can agree that the LoS not being there wasn't a problem before, as Dark Verse, did require LoS, which then forced Tragedy to inadvertantly also require LoS. Having LoS on Tragedy, then becomes a little bit of a moot point other than "The LoS system itself was bugged", but again, what keeps being brought up is the Dante nerfs as the main topic rather than solely focussing on the LoS system.

What is quite amusing in all this though, is the LoS system wasn't an issue until now. So much in the game uses the LoS system already, including Octavia, who, if we go by the WF 2023 stats, was 14th place (prime) in the top used frames. I don't see Octavias statistics being in the grave there by any means.

I mean the place is filled with founders that are buttlicking can you blame me when you uploaded a random end of mission results with no extra info and said Dante is good? OK I take it back that almost all founders are fungirling and just blindly listening to DE after reading your response for that I'm sorry also about the loki part sorry to say it but those where the words of one of the devs that loki is in a good spot and gets picked frequently so no rework on him I admit I didn't stat check that but with the addition of helmith stats really don't say much about a frame and its condition when you can just use bandage tactics and barely stay afloat wich at the end it will count as usage that the devs will see and say everything is alright here look he is picked my job here is done hell I had a clanmate literally use wrathful advance on Dante and going full melee after the nerfs and that will count towards his usage ,I can even just pick caliban slap on him wrathfull advance or roar get some broken melee with arcanes and clear steelpath does that count as him being a good frame?at the end of the day we will never know how much of those stats reflect high lvl usage and how much just the start chart or how many of those players slaped together with tape some whacky lunatic build on those frames and is just messing around.Even after the buffs he got lately his tragedy hitbox is still junky as hell I played 7 hours straight yesterday and saw just a handful of dantes in missions after I asked them how the buffs feel they all just said what buffs ( being ironic in their response)and that they just use him for the overguard wich is kinda sad seeing a frame being used for just one ability . I still stand by my point that they gutted him with the nerfs and now 2 or 3 hotfixes later they still are trying to fix the mess they got themselves in this entire fiasco feels like I was the one that broke your leg but here I bought you a bike as a sorry 

[Karyst]

20 hours ago, MATHIELPRIME said:

My condolences about the gauss part hope its some kind of bug and you will guys get your rewards eventually,I'm kinda in the same boat with you guys thinking either about quiting this God forsaken game or just prove to DE how stupid their balancing is by minmaxing stupid frames for no reason just so stupid crybabyies in public lobbies can finally see what true broken and squad disturbing truly is 😉 time will tell 

Time is telling as we speak, but we take it step by step, in line with updates

[OneOmniverse]

On 2024-04-14 at 1:58 AM, OnestarMike said:

Slow casting speed has not been an issue. Slap on 2 yellow shards and it feels nice.

I still think saying LoS is a little janky is underselling it. It's better but "consistently inconsistent" doesn't bode well for a good player experience. Dante's debacle only highlighted how bad LoS in general is. LoS wasn't a major issue before because honestly it doesn't impact other frames as much as something like dante's tragedy. It's good that they're working on it now, but it still doesn't change the fact that LoS on tragedy will never feel good, even if it's perfect.

I think this person's post sums up the general experience that I'm trying to convey

 For a TLDR: The nature of warframe as a game currently rewards preparation for big payoffs. Most warframes operate like this. Dante's tragedy is meant to be the finisher to this preparation. And if all your setup ends up failing because a lamp got in the way, it creates a pretty severe negative experience, no matter how frequent it happens. And the problem is that with LoS, there will always be a time where it happens. DE can never escape this fact.

 

It feels pretty bad ngl it’s just not fun anymore and that’s what he brought to the table fun now it’s just a chore and chores aren’t fun 

 

On 2024-04-14 at 3:25 AM, (PSN)Thanatos-Prime said:

Accuse away. By all means. Coddling and forgiving catastrophic pork ups is what leads to this whole crap fest. DE is a business, they want to make money. They do so via add revinue on streaming, investors and US the players happily giving our money fir Plat and store options.  If they never face true backlash, just a watered down happy dappy " you tried its OK niw thanks" nothing will ever get done or change. None of your posts were accusatory, they were POINTED there's a difference. The sames true for most every unhappy, unsatisfied post I've read. POINTED CRITICISM. Laser focused on the blaring Kaiju sized mistakes, that keep happening because players go, "OK I'm sorry I was mean" nope, criticism can be mean, if your not capable of accepting that. 

Look, I'm what they may consider a "Whale" , I run a large clan with lots of affiliated members, me and my founders, we like helping. And we like bringing joy, if a hard up member is down in the emotional dumps we gave and do gift them bundles, Plat, prime parts, whatever. And no not bragging, just saying we SPEND BANK to help our crews. But after this? That banks gone, actions have consequences, our crew of Whales have moved along and were 100% free to play. 

Nothing will ever alter if we just roll over. They've proven they do not care about verbal feedback, ok cool. I would hope your ready for the data and physical side. How's that bottom line gonna look after all the refunds? If you drive away swaths of your base? Gonna hurt con attendance for sure, advertisers might have second thoughts after a while of no stream viewership, players stop buying revinue takes a dive, might worry your investor groups. This is a very slippery slope DE has chosen. One would hope they'd recognize their choices and pivot, but I dunno. I feel like they are calling a bluff here. " We want LoS, they'll roll over and accept it"  Sorry, plenty of us won't, the bad press is rolling DE, our local game shop today was full of distaste for Warframe.  

" I heard they dumpstered another frame" "Jeeze even Riots not that bad, Bungie is even doing a bit better" "he'll I'll play a blizzard title, least then I know I'm getting garbage up front and can enjoy it a little bit" 

"Hey sony recommend me this game, um Warframe, looks cool" 8 people:" NO!" " nope dude stay away it's cancer, it's run like a mobile game" 

These are not big digital gamers, these are old school Table Top guys and gals, people you want to recruit DE, new players, and the press they are hearing from members and players is enough to turn em away. I mean if people are saying your doing worse then Riot, Bungie and Blizzard? Lord almighty that's not good.  The d20 team I was supposed to start a story for legit held a boycott. I asked em why, the reply? 

"Well we wanted a kinda warframe analog fee, like mecha shonin style  -obviously I know laws so don't at me.- but we ain't going near that. Pork them, having YouTube gaslight? Pffft no." My reply? " OK just call me next time. I'm just the Dungeon Master guys, what kinda setting do you want?"  "ANYTHING ELSE" o.o  random gamers would rather boycott on principle then acknowledge your game exists. NOT GOOD PRESS. 

DE, your community by and large is supportive as hell, and we've stomached A LOT, tolerated and accepted PLENTY of less then stellar stuff, and let's not bring up huge crap like the regal aya or heirloom fiasco ok? I would hope you'd realize, your community. Your players, your money spenders, are right here shouting at you in a vain effort to show you a simple path back to a modicum of trust and good will. We're legit telling you how you can make all this bad press go away and rebuild a bit of trust and appreciation. We wanted to give you that DE, how many posts have we all read of late asking, but ending with something like "Thanks for the hard work DE I still enjoy your game mostly" PLENTY. I think by and large most of us WANT DE to pivot and we are angry and irked that they can't see the big blaring warning lights. Specially since we are the ones shouting and holding the bloody things.

Dang I wish I found y’all’s clan when I was still playing actively xD sigh . Not that it matters days of being active and fun are over sad times man sad times 

 

On 2024-04-14 at 7:53 AM, MATHIELPRIME said:

I mean the place is filled with founders that are buttlicking can you blame me when you uploaded a random end of mission results with no extra info and said Dante is good? OK I take it back that almost all founders are fungirling and just blindly listening to DE after reading your response for that I'm sorry also about the loki part sorry to say it but those where the words of one of the devs that loki is in a good spot and gets picked frequently so no rework on him I admit I didn't stat check that but with the addition of helmith stats really don't say much about a frame and its condition when you can just use bandage tactics and barely stay afloat wich at the end it will count as usage that the devs will see and say everything is alright here look he is picked my job here is done hell I had a clanmate literally use wrathful advance on Dante and going full melee after the nerfs and that will count towards his usage ,I can even just pick caliban slap on him wrathfull advance or roar get some broken melee with arcanes and clear steelpath does that count as him being a good frame?at the end of the day we will never know how much of those stats reflect high lvl usage and how much just the start chart or how many of those players slaped together with tape some whacky lunatic build on those frames and is just messing around.Even after the buffs he got lately his tragedy hitbox is still junky as hell I played 7 hours straight yesterday and saw just a handful of dantes in missions after I asked them how the buffs feel they all just said what buffs ( being ironic in their response)and that they just use him for the overguard wich is kinda sad seeing a frame being used for just one ability . I still stand by my point that they gutted him with the nerfs and now 2 or 3 hotfixes later they still are trying to fix the mess they got themselves in this entire fiasco feels like I was the one that broke your leg but here I bought you a bike as a sorry 

Yeah week and a half old frame already put in the trash by people it’s a damn shame DE really doesn’t want new frames to be fun they like being old and stale and having the same frames being used over and over again. But they made a lot of people learn a hard lesson at least and that was don’t be a fool and spend money on our game cause we’ll take it and then change the things you bought with it and won’t give your money back. Lol

[Stormandreas]

On 2024-04-14 at 1:58 AM, OnestarMike said:

Slow casting speed has not been an issue. Slap on 2 yellow shards and it feels nice.

I still think saying LoS is a little janky is underselling it. It's better but "consistently inconsistent" doesn't bode well for a good player experience. Dante's debacle only highlighted how bad LoS in general is. LoS wasn't a major issue before because honestly it doesn't impact other frames as much as something like dante's tragedy. It's good that they're working on it now, but it still doesn't change the fact that LoS on tragedy will never feel good, even if it's perfect.

I think this person's post sums up the general experience that I'm trying to convey

 For a TLDR: The nature of warframe as a game currently rewards preparation for big payoffs. Most warframes operate like this. Dante's tragedy is meant to be the finisher to this preparation. And if all your setup ends up failing because a lamp got in the way, it creates a pretty severe negative experience, no matter how frequent it happens. And the problem is that with LoS, there will always be a time where it happens. DE can never escape this fact.

 

I get the shard usaged, I have a Tauforged and use Madurai on mine cause his base casting speed feels awful. It's very slow at base, that's what I was meaning.

While yes, I agree the LoS doesn't impact other frames/builds as much, it still points to the problem being the LoS system iteself, not the fact that Tragedy has LoS. Again, Tragedy having LoS, keeps it inline with all the rest of his abilities.
I certainly thought it felt better when they gave it LoS, as I was real confused when I was hitting random things through walls being like "Oh, there was something there? Why didn't anything else I did hit them?". With the LoS, it felt like it work(s)ed with Dark Verse (though yes, janky AF by using the old LoS system)

The "small object" argument is a little more complex. The LoS system does take much of that into account, HOWEVER, DE need to review like... almost every object and enemies hitbox in the game to make it work as it seems like it should. There's still a lot of stuff in the game that blocks movement and bullets when it's very clear that there's a big enough gap for a damn bullet to reach through!

 

On 2024-04-14 at 2:22 AM, (XBOX)toughdragon17 said:

You shur arcanes drop at higher raritys with a M booster ? Or were you mos and arcane farming 

Eh im less mad now than when it first happened I had a lot going on and them messing with my fun sent me a bit over and iv been getting use to it more and more so sorry if iv sounded like a hardhead (this is also to anyone reading this i have my opinions you have yours im not saying yours is wrong im just a little more aggressive with mine lately) lately when I get worked up i say my opinions more aggressively than usual and sorry if iv accused you of anything (I was told by someone the next day that reads over my text do to a spelling disorder that I may have acted in an accusatory manor) he is better now but still feels a bit off to me los dos work better but still has its flaws they out likely will fix 

100%. Mod drop boosters have always affected Arcane and Endo drops. Been known for a while. I always go Arcane farming when I get one out of Sortie or Circuit!

Alright, that's fair mate no worries. Glad to hear things have settled down then! You're fine mate. I know this whole situation has gotten a lot of people riled up, totally get it. (don't take this next bit as an insult. It's not aimed at you, just a general observation) When something in your favorite game gets nerfed or changed, it's generally hard for most people to sit down and look at the changes critically and instead take a more emotional response. 

I do agree, the LoS still is a bit off and needs work, though it's far from killed Dante. He's still very very usable and very powerful, he just needs thought on poistioning now instead of just going slicesliceboom, slicesliceboom, ?????, Profit (he still kinda does though it's more Jump, slicesliceboom, jump, slicesliceboom, ?????, Profit)

 

On 2024-04-14 at 7:53 AM, MATHIELPRIME said:

I mean the place is filled with founders that are buttlicking can you blame me when you uploaded a random end of mission results with no extra info and said Dante is good? OK I take it back that almost all founders are fungirling and just blindly listening to DE after reading your response for that I'm sorry also about the loki part sorry to say it but those where the words of one of the devs that loki is in a good spot and gets picked frequently so no rework on him I admit I didn't stat check that but with the addition of helmith stats really don't say much about a frame and its condition when you can just use bandage tactics and barely stay afloat wich at the end it will count as usage that the devs will see and say everything is alright here look he is picked my job here is done hell I had a clanmate literally use wrathful advance on Dante and going full melee after the nerfs and that will count towards his usage ,I can even just pick caliban slap on him wrathfull advance or roar get some broken melee with arcanes and clear steelpath does that count as him being a good frame?at the end of the day we will never know how much of those stats reflect high lvl usage and how much just the start chart or how many of those players slaped together with tape some whacky lunatic build on those frames and is just messing around.Even after the buffs he got lately his tragedy hitbox is still junky as hell I played 7 hours straight yesterday and saw just a handful of dantes in missions after I asked them how the buffs feel they all just said what buffs ( being ironic in their response)and that they just use him for the overguard wich is kinda sad seeing a frame being used for just one ability . I still stand by my point that they gutted him with the nerfs and now 2 or 3 hotfixes later they still are trying to fix the mess they got themselves in this entire fiasco feels like I was the one that broke your leg but here I bought you a bike as a sorry 

Aight, I will ask... please for the love of god use formatting! It's extremely hard to parse anything you write when it's a wall like that.

I've seen far more founders condemn and criticize DE than kiss up to them, so I'm not sure who you're referring to (do not name names).

Sure, I'll admit to not giving enough context on the screenshot, sure. I mentioned the frames being used, though not the mission type, how long, or if it was SP. I should of included those.

Pablo said that Loki has "had his heyday" not that "he's in a good spot". At this point, I'm pretty sure Pablo just doesn't like Loki and doesn't want to rework him with that wording.
Yes, the usage stat we see does cover all uses of a frame. The usage stats DE sees are much more detailed. This is something you have to keep in mind. They will be able to see what ablities are used, what gets subsumed over/with, how often, how many players, all of that. That's where a lot of those balance decisions also come from. Things that we don't see.
Also... Caliban does fine in SP without any subsumes. His 4 does an AOE defense strip with a lingering field, he shield gates for days. He's good, just a jack of all trades, master of none.

So Dante's LoS still feels janky? So... the LoS is the issue you'd say then? So not Dante's damage output, the LoS system itself.

Just because you ran public missions and didn't see people running Dante, does not mean there are not people running Dante. The fact there's so much hate going around revolving around Dante when it should be aimed at the LoS System, is also why you wont see people running Dante. Ontop of that, NUMEROUS of my communities members have experienced getting hate from others for using Dante in mission for no good reason. Many players do not want to experience this, and so will avoid using whatever causes this toxicity.

You can claim they "gutted" Dante, however wrong it might be. If they had "gutted" Dante, he would have less damage, less range, LoS, more energy costs, and no longer makes OG and instead only heals health. THAT, would be gutting Dante.

With all this, yes, DE communicated what they were doing... somewhat, and that yes, Dante would have some changes because they saw he was overtaking things (and still can very easily). What then happend, was gamers, who think they know how games design works, then calling DE a scummy company for making a perfectly reasonable change from a development standpoint, and flipping out about the changes without actually seeing the forest for the trees.
The Forest being the LoS systems age and inconsistencies, requiring a full developmental review to improve it's functionality across the board for everything in the game.
The Trees being removing the bug (now feature) of Pageflight, reduced OG generation to keep him inline with the other 2 Frames that generate team OG (again reasonable), and implementing LoS on the one and only offensive ability he had that didn't use LoS.

 

On 2024-04-14 at 3:25 AM, (PSN)Thanatos-Prime said:

They've proven they do not care about verbal feedback

This is where I stopped.

All Developers care about constructive critical feedback, not just "Revert", "feels bad" and "scummy company".

Feedback that gives insight into why X, Y and Z are not working, with details that they can follow and replicate themselves to then analyze and find solutions. THAT is the feedback Developers want.

This is why DE did not remove LoS on Dante, and instead, targetted the LoS system iteslf. The constructive feedback they got, was about the actual core of the problem, the aged LoS system.

Edited April 14 by Stormandreas

[iSiawPrime]

It's actually really amazing, here's a series of Popular Posts, on their own forum, that shows how much DE listen to it's community

 

And that's just a few lol.

[Digital_Malz]

3 hours ago, Stormandreas said:

This is where I stopped.

All Developers care about constructive critical feedback, not just "Revert", "feels bad" and "scummy company".

Feedback that gives insight into why X, Y and Z are not working, with details that they can follow and replicate themselves to then analyze and find solutions. THAT is the feedback Developers want.

This is why DE did not remove LoS on Dante, and instead, targetted the LoS system iteslf. The constructive feedback they got, was about the actual core of the problem, the aged LoS system.

You're lying. There are a lot of constructive feedback this forum. There are many players suggesting much more balanced and interesting ideas (such as reverting LoS and removing Tragedy base dmg). There are many other players giving feedback on how LoS for Tragedy doesn't work... DE won't listen. They know they did something stupid, YOU know they did something stupid. They will never admit because they are too proud and stubborn to do so. You won't admit it because you'll simply side with them no matter how they trash the game.

[Digital_Malz]

1 hour ago, iSiawPrime said:

It's actually really amazing, here's a series of Popular Posts, on their own forum, that shows how much DE listen to it's community

 

And that's just a few lol.

PERFECT IRONY.

[NemiTheNem]

Part of the problem.is DE isn't talking to us.

"His damage isn't the problem," massive damage nerf.

"It's either this or we reduce his range," a lot of support about nerfing range, no talk abput trying the range nerf for a litte while.

And then? Finally a hint. "Damage cap of one billion."

Dante's damage is the problem, probably because of his multiplier.

So nerf the multiplier. 

[Stormandreas]

13 hours ago, NemiTheNem said:

Part of the problem.is DE isn't talking to us.

"His damage isn't the problem," massive damage nerf.

"It's either this or we reduce his range," a lot of support about nerfing range, no talk abput trying the range nerf for a litte while.

And then? Finally a hint. "Damage cap of one billion."

Dante's damage is the problem, probably because of his multiplier.

So nerf the multiplier. 

Where was the damage nerf? I saw no changes to his numbers. They removed a bug, and lowered the numbers on the OG generation, something that is highly oppressive on it's own, invalidated multiple playstyles, and completely spits in the face of Frost and Styanax, who were the only other frames making team based OG. I know a few Frost mains who are pretty disgruntled with the fact Frost is pretty much entirely superceeded by Dante now from a purely mechanical standpoint.

Reducing range can have other adverse effects on his effectiveness as a caster frame. Reduce it too low, he's near useless for damage, do it to little, and you've got the exact same problem. It then becomes a whole lot of trial and error that takes a lot of time, energy and resources.

The damage cap was added because they re-added the bug that was on Pageflight which provided the status damage increase. They did this in a forward effort to stop Dante crashing anyones games, should he reach into the billions against multiple enemies at the same time, which if so, he could completely crash the engine.

The damage is not the problem... 🤦‍♂️

 

15 hours ago, Digital_Malz said:

You're lying. There are a lot of constructive feedback this forum. There are many players suggesting much more balanced and interesting ideas (such as reverting LoS and removing Tragedy base dmg). There are many other players giving feedback on how LoS for Tragedy doesn't work... DE won't listen. They know they did something stupid, YOU know they did something stupid. They will never admit because they are too proud and stubborn to do so. You won't admit it because you'll simply side with them no matter how they trash the game.

I am not.

The vast majority of feedback on the forums (you can even see it in this thread), is a lot of whining, complaining, saying trash this, trash that, dante gutted etc. This is not constructive feedback by any margin.

Yes, there are players who have given feedback. Is it constructive, providing DE with possible solutions, clearly detailed unaggressive thoughts, very seldomly. The ones that have, are the ones that have been listened to, which is why DE targetted the LoS system, as the ones who were being rational, were pointing right at that system, going "DE, this is the culprit, here's whats happening, here's how to replicate it, here's evidence for you."

No, I do not think they did something stupid, as they are going about this as game developers. If you research into games development, do some studying, and learn how the industry works, this is exactly how they do it. They look at a problem, and itterate on solutions, as the solution is very often not the one that's just "revert back". Sometimes it is, very often it isn't.

You assume that I just flatout wont admit they messed up? You clearly didn't read any of my other posts because I did admit they added the LoS system and that system was what was messed up.
Did DE, as developers, see a problem and itterate on a solution? Yes (and in quite a short space of time that they have said they are still working on)
Did they work to correct that system? Yes.
Should that be commended? Yes.

[Dullaran]

52 minutes ago, Stormandreas said:

Yes, there are players who have given feedback. Is it constructive, providing DE with possible solutions, clearly detailed unaggressive thoughts, very seldomly.

This is normal, everyone is giving constructive ideas: asking them to remove LoS. But they don't do it, it has been over a week.

There are no possible solutions man, this is the only solution: remove LoS. There's no improvement that them could do to LoS that make it more fun and enjoyable than before. That's the point

[(PSN)Thanatos-Prime]

11 hours ago, Dullaran said:

This is normal, everyone is giving constructive ideas: asking them to remove LoS. But they don't do it, it has been over a week.

There are no possible solutions man, this is the only solution: remove LoS. There's no improvement that them could do to LoS that make it more fun and enjoyable than before. That's the point

I also adore how he will ignore my post PAGES ago where I calmly broke it down from a design standpoint and offered resolutions. But I'm not a DE fan boy so that was me crying? Lol. 

 

18 hours ago, OneOmniverse said:

Dang I wish I found y’all’s clan when I was still playing actively xD sigh . Not that it matters days of being active and fun are over sad times man sad times 

Oh were still around. Just on other games and refocused on driving our home made Rpg system to a public release. And expanding our media presence. Our Medua guru made us go to X. The horror of that is just.....I'd rather listen to the DE boitlickers justify the Heirloom packs then manage a X account. Lol 

[Sena]

On 2024-04-09 at 2:59 PM, MATHIELPRIME said:

Literally only reason I came back to warframe was cause my pc could not handle helldivers 2 or enshrouded that and the promise of a fun new frame welp this promise aged like fine milk 

Same actually, but this behavior from the devs makes me not want to play warframe either

[(PSN)Thanatos-Prime]

6 hours ago, Sena said:

Same actually, but this behavior from the devs makes me not want to play warframe either

After this psn connection fiasco I was gonna do my weekly Archon shards slog, buuut I don't really have the desire to even log in. Shame. 

 

16 hours ago, iSiawPrime said:

It's actually really amazing, here's a series of Popular Posts, on their own forum, that shows how much DE listen to it's community

 

And that's just a few lol.

Anybody wanna que up the sarcastic trombone? 

*wha what, whaaaaaa* lol great work DE. 

[-ShadowRadiance-]

Le bump.

[Mayhem-Ivory]

vor 12 Stunden schrieb (PSN)Thanatos-Prime:

Oh were still around. Just on other games and refocused on driving our home made Rpg system to a public release. And expanding our media presence. Our Medua guru made us go to X. The horror of that is just.....I'd rather listen to the DE boitlickers justify the Heirloom packs then manage a X account. Lol 

Out of curiosity from a guy who tries to solo-make his own stuff; what's it called, where can I check it out?

 

vor 9 Stunden schrieb (PSN)Thanatos-Prime:

Anybody wanna que up the sarcastic trombone? 

*wha what, whaaaaaa* lol great work DE. 

While I understand some people's rebuttal that that is all just sentiments and not constructive criticism:

• "It feels bad" is still a very valuable sentiment. I saw a S#&$show go down recently in the DnD5e/OneDnD community where lots of people were quick to yap "constumers are good at finding the problem, but bad at finding a solution" - but now right here people are being dismissed for pointing out the issue without offering a solution.
• You could probably make a list just as large with people giving good reasoning for why LoS is bad for Tragedy and offering a number of solutions. The only reason those posts didn't get hundreds of likes is because they take longer to write and thus are posted later and seen by less people.

So yea, while DE is admittedly good at noticing outrage (how could they miss it), they should put in more effort to properly parse the different feedback channels. From what I can tell, the forum, reddit and youtube are all still buzzing with complaints, even if it has gotten a lot less.

[(PSN)Thanatos-Prime]

9 hours ago, Mayhem-Ivory said:

A- Out of curiosity from a guy who tries to solo-make his own stuff; what's it called, where can I check it out?

 

B-While I understand some people's rebuttal that that is all just sentiments and not constructive criticism:

• "It feels bad" is still a very valuable sentiment. I saw a S#&$show go down recently in the DnD5e/OneDnD community where lots of people were quick to yap "constumers are good at finding the problem, but bad at finding a solution" - but now right here people are being dismissed for pointing out the issue without offering a solution.
• You could probably make a list just as large with people giving good reasoning for why LoS is bad for Tragedy and offering a number of solutions. The only reason those posts didn't get hundreds of likes is because they take longer to write and thus are posted later and seen by less people.

So yea, while DE is admittedly good at noticing outrage (how could they miss it), they should put in more effort to properly parse the different feedback channels. From what I can tell, the forum, reddit and youtube are all still buzzing with complaints, even if it has gotten a lot less.

While I'd love to say more, it's still coming together, along with our media presence. 2 years baking prolly another few months with our tester teams. 😆  

 

B. 

- True, accept, there have been DOZENS of posts here from members of all walks legit THROWING SOLID working ideas and compromises. For the large part your spot on, normally consumers are TERRIBLE. But, see we are gamers, we are very good, EXCEEDINGLY GOOD at finding creative WORKING solutions. Cause we're practical. We don't want more work. So we work smarter, if a simple number fix will work why revamp A WHOLE MECHANICAL SYSTEM. 

-  I don't think any of us has the time, plenty if posts, likely many that got "moderated". 

It's gotten less likely because we just don't have the time to sit here and continue to try and fix stupid, when stupid does not want to be fixed. It thinks everything is fine. And as gamers we are all very happy to pull out the popcorn and shout "TOLD YA SO!" When stupid is being pulled out of a collapsed mansion by rescue teams. 😆 

[Gaxxian]

hace 7 horas, (PSN)Thanatos-Prime dijo:

-  I don't think any of us has the time, plenty if posts, likely many that got "moderated". 

Like this one:

En 14/4/2024 a las 23:16, iSiawPrime dijo:

It's actually really amazing, here's a series of Popular Posts, on their own forum, that shows how much DE listen to it's community

 

And that's just a few lol.

Hey look, they shoved this here to hide it ;) It doesn't even share the topic here, since that thread really wasn't about Dante but about how DE ignores feedback.