PC Dante Unbound: Hotfix 35.5.4

[Nakti]

11 hours ago, Ace-Bounty-Hunter said:

I hope your favorite frame receives changes at some point (AKA: Gets completely gutted) just so I can see you mald and seethe on the forums. Then we'll see how well you "deal with it"

People who live in glass houses and all that.

Fine, let's do that. Although I bet you will still be more active than us, spreading anger and lies (for example, about being "gutted"). Especially if things get "gutted" like Dante, aka not burying them.

[Amen-san]

8 hours ago, AR_Has said:

bcs it ruins his synergy and ruins the flow , for example u can cast 3 on multiple enemies in different directions then cast 4th to kill them all , mark and kill synergy is screwed , then another thing if u mark an enemy then his bloody leg or hand goes behind an enemy or wall he wont die with tragedy even if he was marked with dark verse , keep white knighting on things you dont understand tho

Love how you're trying to call me out on stuff when you literally know nothing. Enemies don't block los on other enemies. You can test that in game right now. It's the same thing with Dante blocking his own los. It's just wrong. Even better, video proof. But here's the actual crazy thing which you probably wont believe. I don't like the los change. I think they should've set the ability to an unchangable 50 meter to match affinity, which opens up better build variety. Or make it so that ability just can't hit through walls. You probably won't believe it, but it's true. 

[DJ_CHABALO]

Tragedy not being a 360º aoe makes no sense. Even looking at his casting animation, there is a circle that comes from him, expanding outwards. Meaning, it is affecting everyone around him.

 Please revert, this is so bad.

[Gandalf_White]

10 hours ago, Erdhan said:

Thanks for your hard work. I spent the whole evening testing Dante and honestly have no idea why people are still raging after the recent hotfix tbh. I can still nuke entire rooms of enemies just fine with Tragedy, despite the new LoS adjustments.

It's not about him not being viable or strong anymore. It's about him being UNFUN and much more INCONSISTENT than before.

On launch day he was incredibly satisfying to play. Mark a group of enemies with Dark verse, go to the other end of the room, mark another group of enemies with dark verse, go inbetween those two groups and explode all marked enemies with Tragedy. Sastisfying, fluid, great synergy. Nowhere near as OP as some people claim and the only through-wall killing he would do is on enemies marked with his Dark Verse slash procs (or other status) or on weak enemies that are under lvl 30 and die to the pitifully small raw damage of Tragedy.

You cannot do that anymore. You are forced to stare right at them when you do that, and any marked enemy that is not in your LoS will still live and not explode. The 2nd group that's on the other side of the room? Likely out of your ability range, and is unaffected despite being in your LoS because you still have to keep looking at the first group which is on the opposite side of the 2nd group. And then what do you have to do? Cast another 2 dark verses and a tragedy after that. That's an awful lot of energy and time compared to any other nuke in the game OR even your own weapons, even with archon shards for casting speed.

Like seriously, if I wanted to kill a localised group of enemies I can do it faster with my weapons than with Dante having to cast 2 abilities before being able to cast the third.

Pre-nerf during a solo netracell I was already having trouble with energy even though I had zenurik, primed flow and a maxxed arcane energize. Now with this LoS as well as a nerf to Overguard it means I'll have to waste even more energy on keeping up that overguard on top of the owls and marking enemies even more often with Dark Verse because some decided that they just won't die. Not to mention that I also use Noctua, which isn't really a viable weapon past a certain level, but it's still really fun to use. But yea, it adds up to the already high energy consumption of Dante.

Dark Verse already has its own LoS check. Tragedy did not need another one.

Edited April 6 by Gandalf_White

[Godbrithil]

R.I.P. Dante – Too bad, instead of pushing the other, non-OP frames, Dante now joins the other, unpleasant frames in a rather long line.

[Gandalf_White]

4 hours ago, Amen-san said:

It's the same thing with Dante blocking his own los. It's just wrong. Even better, video proof. 

Yeah, no. I don't know how you did your tests, if you cherry picked them or just did them once and it happened to kill all enemies and you went with "okay they lied!"

It's affected by your FoV. On highest FoV the problem is reduced but it still happens especially when you stand far away. On default FoV (65) it's horrible.

Oh yea, I also got video proof. Just went to the simulacrum and tested it few minutes ago with the default fov and max fov. It doesn't happen every time of course, sometimes I get all kills, but it's not consistent at all. I only included clips where it does happen. I'd say around 50% of the time there will be at least 1 enemy remaining with a max fov, while with the default one the issue appears to be not only more common but also more enemies stay alive.

Edited April 6 by Gandalf_White
Added some context

[NemiTheNem]

I see in some places people being happy that this is pushing the devs to fix LoS abilities.
 

They aren't. They specifically say the extra checks are on Dante's abilities.

[Ace-Bounty-Hunter]

7 hours ago, Nakti said:

Fine, let's do that. Although I bet you will still be more active than us, spreading anger and lies (for example, about being "gutted"). Especially if things get "gutted" like Dante, aka not burying them.

What lies? Hasn't the insane amount of backpedaling that DE has been doing not even 24 hours after these changes been a good enough indication that they were too heavy handed with these nerfs? 

And I'm angry because DE has a history of pulling this stunt and not learning their lessons from it. So how about you wind your neck in!

Edited April 6 by Ace-Bounty-Hunter

[Museigen]

11 hours ago, Erdhan said:

I haven't played Persto, but I did do multiple Netracell runs on the lab tileset. Depending on the room you're in things can get harder or easier, since well, LoS, but I had no trouble hitting things I intended to hit. I was also paying attention to both the minimap and the enemies in front of me to check how many red dots were vanishing after each Tragedy. It wasn't cleaning the whole room, whether because of some surviving Eximus or some walls, but was hitting most of them, and what mattered to me, it was hitting the group i wanted to hit, plus, as I said, enemies I didn't realize were even there in the first place whether hidden behind some obstacles or standing somewhere behind me. I think in the current iteration it only doesn't hit stuff if there's like a literal wall between you and the enemy.

There might still be some bugs as you've mentioned, but I haven't noticed any in my games. To me this new version still lets you hit what you want to hit, the only thing it limits is that you don't reliably hit stuff you don't even know is there - enemies behind walls, in another room etc.

Also i'm not sure how and when does the ability check whether the enemies are in sight. Whether at the beginning of animation, during, or does it "mark" each you see while casting. I had cases when I was jumping down while casting Tragedy and I thought I lost sight of the enemies on the upper floor, but I hit them anyway, so either some bits of them were still seen, or the ability has a particular moment it registers enemies. If it "marks" everyone it sees during the whole animation, then maybe using casting speed actually makes it less reliable since you have less time to  "mark" enemies you see? This is just a thing I was wondering about though.
 

Ok, so a lot of playtesting done so... I think that what is bugging me the most, now that I'm playing with fov 90 which attenuate part of the warframe model issue, is that the LoS of Dark Verse and Tragedy are not the same. They are similarly lenient, but not the same, and sometimes Dark Verse hit something Tragedy can't. To Tragedy to work properly as a detonator, it must have more leniency all around than its enabler Dark Verse. Which is why No-LoS was such a good option of design for this skill imo.

Edited April 6 by Museigen

[TheLegendCore]

I know you guys want to sound smart by saying : we found the perfect adjustments, LOS. we are so creative and smart. But no, just no, it feels really bad, it is realy awful and it is not a smart nerf.

But you never listen and you persist on your mistakes. 

Fed my dante to helminth since im 99% sure you wont fix anything about him, just 2-3 years later you see how awful he is then release augment mods for him and then after a week you nerf the augment mod again and the same thing happens again and again. 

 

[cebbolar]

 

[SpyLeech]

Just remove the LoS entirely and stop playing this "overnerf so the community reacts hard, hotfix to the desired nerf level, watch as the community eats itself, letting you push through the stupid change regardless" game. You said it yourself, Dante's damage wasn't the problem, so just fix overguard so it doesn't disrupt the 0.01% of the playerbase who plays Rage Chroma, maybe tweak his overguard numbers, but remove the Line of Sight requirement.

[BobbyBananas]

After having a chance to play Dante for a few hours this morning, the LoS situation feels much better than it did with the original hotfix. I'll put my pitchfork away for now.

[FloatyToasty1]

I was fine with the overguard nerf. It's easy enough to recast it. Tragedy though just make it a 360 again. Other frames like saryn nuke entire rooms. 

 

Listen to your fan base and just revert tragedy back to how it was. He was the first frame in a long time I actually enjoyed. 

[BrownZFilmZ]

I think Dante is at a pretty good place but to me if you are going to make something Line of Sight, why even give Tragedy a range stat.

If I wanted to improve the frames potential further, I'd remove range needed for Tragedy as that would allow for more build variety

I'd give it good enough range so you could cast it up high but still have it hit. 

 

A lot of maps will still limit the ability due to the way it's designed.

Long tight pathways, low skybox height, enemies spawn in paths outside of LOS but still close

Edited April 6 by BrownZFilmZ
More information

[TheFool643]

I would like to provide feedback on the CC nerf. Since the update Mag feels much worse to play. Almost ineffective at times. I understand that DE wants to create challenging opponents and gameplay. But I don't think that artificially limiting what's viable, and removing effectiveness of tools that you've built into frames is the right way to go about it. At least not to this degree. Gutting CC doesn't make the game more challenging, it makes it less fun to play. 

I would like to thank DE for restoring some of the effectiveness that Dante had before.

Anyway, just my two cents.

Edited April 6 by TheFool643

[JimothyStevens]

On 2024-04-05 at 11:03 AM, Nakti said:

Could you guys stop lying at least for a moment?

Did DE comp you well for this comment? I hope so.

[Dexlmentia]

The game continues to kill the power cord to my laptop forcing me to switch physical outlets to get it back.  Since this and the subsequent update, I was finally able to click on a slow moving target and get into the game to turn my setting down all the way and disable volumetric fog.  Now I seem to be able to play the game on low settings with a 10th gen i7/3070/32 gigs RAM, until it drains my battery because I no longer have a functioning power cord.  There is nothing wrong with the cord.

This does not happen with any other game or app.  I play several games more graphically demanding than Warframe has been up to now.

[Prof-Dante]

On 2024-04-05 at 7:58 PM, [DE]Megan said:

We value your input and how it helps us iterate and improve together. Thank you, Tenno.
 

Lol, Yeah me when I lie.

[Threa]

I will never trust DE devs ever again, especially after what they said in the devshort. You guys REFUSE to listen. Apologize and revert the nerfs or give us our money back. 

[JellyTroupple]

Okay, another patch... but where's the Tragedy revert? What's the point of this "we're listening to your feedback!" song and dance, when it's very self-evidently not the case at all? 

[Lyn.Relamp]

On 2024-04-06 at 12:58 AM, [DE]Megan said:

Fixed the Loadout options resetting daily instead of weekly (at usual reset time) as intended. 

• All conditions for Deep Archimedia are on a weekly reset, so the Loadout Modifiers follow this standard. 

 

I play deep archimedea yesterday with suboptimal loadout but I got valkyr, a beast even without potato. decided to build her to tackle elite archimedea today and no valkyr in my loadout. Is there something Im missing?

[Sudri]

There is no way you guys are making the LoS nerf feel good in any way.

Tragedy, was not disruptive to gameplay, not overly dominant, and did not automate gameplay in anyway and was actually the opposite in it being a very engaging ability to setup.

[Sudri]

• • Quote

    Improved Tragedy’s Line of Sight checks per enemy to be much more forgiving and reliable to fix the many cases players reported of not being able to hit enemies at all. Now, it considers not only the enemies that Dante sees but also those visible on screen/via the camera—so any part of them, big or small, is considered visible/eligible to pass the LoS check.  

    • To break that down a bit deeper: 
      •  Enemies positioned directly behind or in front of Dante 
        • We have made it so that enemies within 5 meters of Dante are automatically considered visible; no LoS checks are required. 
      • Enemies barely in cover or who had just run to cover
      • Enemies positioned at a different height to Dante where they are still partially in view 
    • Enemies that are not caught by the "Is the enemy on screen?" check (behind or to the sides of you) use an improved target detection where we now check for line of sight to the target's head, torso, and feet. Previously we only checked for their torso. This will improve the reliability of hitting enemies even when they are not directly on the screen.

    Fixed Tragedy not hitting/affecting ragdolled enemies that are in LoS.

    • This was a particularly brutal bug considering the number of abilities, weapons, and other effects that can cause enemies to be ragdolled. This issue also contributed to the many scenarios in which Tragedy did not apply at all. 

    Stop trying to polish the turd, no matter how shiny you make it, no one wants it.

Edited April 7 by Sudri
Misspell

[TTie]

THANK YOU GUYS <3 Through years you keep proving how awesome you are and how much you listen to the community, keep doing it with Tragedy, and revert the LoS please. The community loved Dante for how he plays, and having the ability mechanics change to something subpar without an explanation why you are doing it, is not the way to go. It puzzles us that so many other frames can nuke through walls, but intended mechanic of Dante is not allowed to do that having nothing to do with your initial issue you brought up of overguard. Communicate with community transparently as you always have. :) I still believe in you guys.

Edited April 7 by TTie