Hildryn is still kneecapped, please DE, fix her anti synergy (New augment?)

[vixenpixel]

Totally clickbait title, I know. But it's true. Her first and fourth ability are essentially useless for one single reason, Pillage can not be cast during channeling of her 4. I assume this is because somebody at DE found the idea of a frame hovering around constantly was an unfun gameplay loop. I guess Titania bumping headfirst into every wall is more interactive maybe? 

Hildryn is essentially half a frame. Her 4th ability disarms her and makes her only able to use her exalted handcannon thingies and her 3 that slowly cooks enemies (and I mean slowly in the sincerest way) whereas the best (read: only good) ability in her kit, pillage is not useable during her 4. This makes it so that you also will never use her first ability because why use those armcannons when you can bring a weapon from your arsenal?

Now, Imagine for a second that you could channel her 4th ability and cast pillage... Dreamy, isn't it? 

She can use her exalted cannons now! She can shoot enemies with them while hovering around like a total space queen! She can refill shields and burn enemy armor and shields with pillage so that her handcannons can more easily disintegrate them! Look at that synergy! I have tears in my eyes. And these tears are the good kind.

Now, I realise that some pessimistic reader that managed to get this far through my post will say that Hildryn cc would take over the game. Well, to them I say: We don't need a Hildryn Rework. All we need is an augment that lets Hildryn float around while using pillage. This augment can change the ability, limiting how many enemies it can cc or lowering the effect of that cc, perhaps slowing them instead. This augment could additionally increase Hildryn hoverspeed by 50% so as to make her a little bit more mobile while still preventing her from flying through every mission. The fact of the matter is that pillage is one of the best abilities in the game and honestly I love this ability. But on Hildryn it's not great because she doesn't have any really complimentary abilities. Since pillage is the subsume, pillage is actually better on almost every other frame.

Now, I get that Mesa can't cast pillage during her 4. Poor Mesa. But this is Hildryn we're talking about, she is the flagship of pillage. Or pillage is the flagship of Hildryn maybe. So instead of nerfing the pillage subsume, make Hildryn able to synergize her abilities. This would provide players with a reason to be play Hildryn apart from her being the snu-snu meme. 

Edited April 17 by vixenpixel

[zThulsaDoomz]

This is hilarious in that Hildryn has a die hard fan base who will swear on a stack of bibles that she is completely overpowered 

I do agree she needs an overhaul for at least her 1st and 4th though

[Hexerin]

You first mistake was not tossing Hildryn in Helminth's chair and injecting something over Aegis Storm. An augment can't save the ability, it's bad on the foundational level.

[Mr.Holyroller]

Her 1 and 4 definitely need a touch up.
I haven't used either on any of my hildryn builds in a few years

[vixenpixel]

25 minutes ago, Hexerin said:

You first mistake was not tossing Hildryn in Helminth's chair and injecting something over Aegis Storm. An augment can't save the ability, it's bad on the foundational level.

I get that it's bad, but I want to fly around as the queen of space and fire my handcannons like in the Hildryn trailer. The fact is that Hildryn is just one walking ability and all the other abilities in her kit are just placeholders for helminth. Instead I play Gyre and put pillage on her because Gyre can actually use pillage and it's super fun. Not a single subsume can make Hildryn more fun than Gyre with pillage, that's the absolute, objective truth of the matter. What could make her fun to play is if her kit was not hamstrung due to bad design choices. 

Edited April 17 by vixenpixel

[Pragmatic_2015]

37 minutes ago, zThulsaDoomz said:

This is hilarious in that Hildryn has a die hard fan base who will swear on a stack of bibles that she is completely overpowered 

I do agree she needs an overhaul for at least her 1st and 4th though

 

33 minutes ago, Mr.Holyroller said:

Her 1 and 4 definitely need a touch up.
I haven't used either on any of my hildryn builds in a few years

Chroma:- First Time ????

Ironically enough I use Pillage on my Chroma Prime for Status Clear. I'd use Rolling Guard but it should only kick in when there are statuses to be dealt with. Rolling gives 75 percent DR and I hate missing IFrames when I don't need too.

[UnstarPrime]

Personally, I don't see it as a problem that Hildryn needs to pop out of her CC to use Pillage.  You're right in saying that if she could Pillage during her 4 then she would be a space queen, which suggests that that's not what DE want her to be.  Instead, her 4 is intended to be a sometimes food rather than her permanent state. You can lengthen it with the energy orbs she shakes out of enemies and with lucky procs on Arcane Aegis and the like, but she's not supposed to be able to reliably stay airborne forever.  Personally, I think that's fine.

[vixenpixel]

1 hour ago, UnstarPrime said:

Personally, I don't see it as a problem that Hildryn needs to pop out of her CC to use Pillage.  You're right in saying that if she could Pillage during her 4 then she would be a space queen, which suggests that that's not what DE want her to be.  Instead, her 4 is intended to be a sometimes food rather than her permanent state. You can lengthen it with the energy orbs she shakes out of enemies and with lucky procs on Arcane Aegis and the like, but she's not supposed to be able to reliably stay airborne forever.  Personally, I think that's fine.

I think that would be fine if it was her bread and butter ability. But as things stand, Hildryn isn't useful when she uses her 4. She is useful when she uses pillage. Gyre is useful when she uses her kit+pillage. Very very useful. Hildryn is just a frame that can subsume Roar and still also have Pillage at the same time. That's all there is to Hildryn for real.

[Emwue]

1 hour ago, UnstarPrime said:

but she's not supposed to be able to reliably stay airborne forever. 

The problem with that logic is, it's trivially easy to keep Hildryn in the air almost indefinitely by building her for efficiency(something that nobody does because the strength requirement for Pillage almost necessitates Blind Rage) and a bit duration and then using Taxon with added Guardian and Manifold Bond, which gives you almost enough shields to sustain the ability; add in the energy drops from the ability itself and something like Aegis and Barrier and you have flight endurance that very easily beats Titania and can be in the realms of half an hour with Primed Redirection.

The real problem with Aegis Storm though, is to find the reason to do it, since the ability is not great CC due to range, does less damage than the Heaven + Blazing Pillage nuke build and as a mobility ability is simply abysmal, since it's slightly slower than RP walk on it's own and even if you actually spam dash/roll, it's still slower than just sprinting not to even mention actually bullet jumping, especially with parkour velocity archon shards.

It's like Hexerin mentioned in the thread, the problem with Aegis Storm is in the very foundations of the ability, it needs a rework.

[vixenpixel]

Hildryn's dps goes down to zero when she uses 4. It's a cc that slowly spawns a lot of energy orbs. With eximus rework, her cc is a death trap since she is quite helpless in her hover-form. I used to use Hildryn for mobile defense missions years ago, before the eximus rework. That was pretty cool. I even had shield recharge subsumed from helminth so i could recast the 4 just after dropping down. But with eximus units in the game, this way of making her 4 useful is just asking to get shot down. The only use her 4 has is in orphix mission, which is not something that people play, afaik.

[BoochieKatt]

Loved everything about this until you said augment that would be the bandaid of bandaid mods.

[vixenpixel]

2 hours ago, BoochieKatt said:

Loved everything about this until you said augment that would be the bandaid of bandaid mods.

I just want an incentive to play the frame. We're in the same boat but I want hildryn playable before 2030 and thats why I suggested augment. DE's track record for Warframe reworks isn't like moba balancing every month. Maybe they will be encouraged to do it sooner due the reception from the community to hydroid, grendel and inaros changes and in that case i would prefer a timely, tiny rework over an augment bandaid. But i do truly believe that an augment doing precisely what i suggested would fix the disconnected abilities in a satisfactory way.

Edited April 18 by vixenpixel

[ToastyGrimlock98]

15 hours ago, zThulsaDoomz said:

This is hilarious in that Hildryn has a die hard fan base who will swear on a stack of bibles that she is completely overpowered 

I do agree she needs an overhaul for at least her 1st and 4th though

Her 3 is also has an insane cost against enemies when all it does is stagger.

[Fred_Avant_2019]

Currently, Hildryn's 4 is useless, I don't care how you change it, just change it and make it actually useful, one way or another.

[vixenpixel]

4 hours ago, Fred_Avant_2019 said:

Currently, Hildryn's 4 is useless, I don't care how you change it, just change it and make it actually useful, one way or another.

Its actually worse than useless due to turning you into target practice for eximus.

[Raarsi]

I mean, technically you can still double-tap her fourth for an aoe knockdown.  Otherwise, yeah, she could use at least a revisit.

Buff Balefire chargers in some direction of either crit or status and tweak the charged blast to do something that makes it worth charging up, and then maybe add on an additional effect or two onto Aegis Storm like a damage vulnerability on enemies in range or something else valuable that would warrant the extra shield drain.  Being able to use Pillage during Aegis Storm would be nice, but I think that was actually an intentional measure by DE to make sure players couldn't keep Aegis Storm active perpetually.

If I were for some ungodly reason allowed to change her Aegis Storm, I'd just make it a simpler personal damage buff increasing her speed slightly along with damage and fire rate from Balefire chargers by some considerable amount while removing the shield cost on using them.  The shield drain might need to be increased a bit to offset that last part, but I'd be okay with it.

[Emwue]

11 hours ago, Raarsi said:

Being able to use Pillage during Aegis Storm would be nice, but I think that was actually an intentional measure by DE to make sure players couldn't keep Aegis Storm active perpetually.

This was already mentioned in the thread once, so to reiterate:

Spoiler

With this build, drain of aegis storm is 6.25 shields per second and with 8251 shields total(I have two +shield archon shards for normal build and I'm not gonna strip them just to prove a point on forum :P), that translates to roughly 1320 seconds of flight endurance or just shy of 22 minutes, when you factor in the initial cast cost of 25 shields.

That is before any shield regen from Aegis, Barrier, Molecular conversion, Guardian and so on kicks in... If that's not "nearly perpetual" then I do not know what is - it certainly is much longer than any reasonable mission runtime in Warframe.

The reason why you can't use Pillage in Aegis Storm is almost assuredly the same as the reason you can't use Helminth abilities and why Yareli can't use Helminth abilities while on Merulina, which is that the animations for allowing that just aren't there.

[Mr_Stach]

I mean nothing to say about her 4, I don't use it, but I definitely have my Balefire Charger all built out for Steel Path circuits. It's great when I get Hildryn in rotation because I get a weapon that will mow through everything and the Benefit of Hildryn being Hildryn