Bile hurts more than platinum? (Archon Shards unequip)

[Venus-Venera]

Am 6.6.2024 um 06:02 schrieb pisces13:

If that's what your mats are looking like, you definitely don't need to be messing around with archon shard builds. Every single one of your materials are extremely low. Just how? You are trying to buy groceries to feed a family of 4 with 1 dollar. I am even stressed seeing how little resources you have yet you are trying to experiment with builds using endgame power progression. I mean even the other sections arent 100%. Your poor helminth is starving. Feed him sir. My OCD is kicking in full time.

yes. my nekros farms more resources in a few minutes with booster and smeeta on sp.
the easiest thing would be to just build a loot frame and join an endless sp mission in public.

I'm a casual player, but this is what it might look like after a few weeks:

 

[Monolake]

Do it, DE. Platinum is just another resource. So if people want to spend plat to move shards aroind -  let them.

You need plat sinks anyway so its a win-win.

[pisces13]

3 hours ago, Venus-Venera said:

yes. my nekros farms more resources in a few minutes with booster and smeeta on sp.
the easiest thing would be to just build a loot frame and join an endless sp mission in public.

I'm a casual player, but this is what it might look like after a few weeks:

 

Exactly what I was trying to say. A booster and playing some endless missions here and there would give a large inventory of mats. Your picture shows how it is done. 

I think complaining about bile costs is quite unnecessary. Slotting archon shards should come after a build has been theory crafted in the mind. The shards only help to enhance that specific build. Techniqually archon shards aren't supposed to be removed. Lorewise the shard is literally jammed into the warframe. The cost to remove it should be high.

Feeding mats to the helminth while the effectiveness rating is in the red is also quite foolish. Feed it once or twice of the same mats if you have nothing else to give. That will save on wasting materials for only 5-10% bile.

I'd like to say a way to alleviate the stress of bile is to allow helminth to accept a random secretion of biotic, calx, pheromones, etc when removing archon shards after every bile cost. It'd look like bile -> pheromones, bile -> calx, bile -> biotic. Most of the other secretions are barely touched anyway since most people use the same helminth abilities. There is a reason why roar cost bile. I am an infested mobility fan 💪🏻💪🏻

[PublikDomain]

3 hours ago, pisces13 said:

I think complaining about bile costs is quite unnecessary. Slotting archon shards should come after a build has been theory crafted in the mind. The shards only help to enhance that specific build.

Which seems to be where most of the disagreement comes from. A lot of you seem to think you're not supposed to experiment. You're not supposed to try new things. You're not supposed to try figuring anything out on your own. You're apparently supposed to read the wiki or watch some content creator to figure things out, plan everything you're going to do out ahead of time, get it right the first time, and then not change it again.

But for some of us, Warframe is all about experimentation and trying out the ideas you come up with is the entire point. Figuring it out on your own is the fun part, and aping some build you found off the internet is boring. And even if Shards are only supposed to "enhance" a specific build, we want to play with more than just one build!

Having a cost to remove Shards smothers this. And ironically, the people who do what you suggest and plan things out ahead of time are the ones that are impacted by this cost the least. Of course you'll feel that complaining about this is unnecessary when it doesn't get in your way. For many of us it does.

[ominumi]

30 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

Which seems to be where most of the disagreement comes from. A lot of you seem to think you're not supposed to experiment. You're not supposed to try new things. You're not supposed to try figuring anything out on your own. You're apparently supposed to read the wiki or watch some content creator to figure things out, plan everything you're going to do out ahead of time, get it right the first time, and then not change it again.

But for some of us, Warframe is all about experimentation and trying out the ideas you come up with is the entire point. Figuring it out on your own is the fun part, and aping some build you found off the internet is boring. And even if Shards are only supposed to "enhance" a specific build, we want to play with more than just one build!

Having a cost to remove Shards smothers this. And ironically, the people who do what you suggest and plan things out ahead of time are the ones that are impacted by this cost the least. Of course you'll feel that complaining about this is unnecessary when it doesn't get in your way. For many of us it does.

What are you experimenting? Trial and error combination of archon colors will yield the highest damage?

[pisces13]

24 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

Which seems to be where most of the disagreement comes from. A lot of you seem to think you're not supposed to experiment. You're not supposed to try new things. You're not supposed to try figuring anything out on your own. You're apparently supposed to read the wiki or watch some content creator to figure things out, plan everything you're going to do out ahead of time, get it right the first time, and then not change it again.

But for some of us, Warframe is all about experimentation and trying out the ideas you come up with is the entire point. Figuring it out on your own is the fun part, and aping some build you found off the internet is boring. And even if Shards are only supposed to "enhance" a specific build, we want to play with more than just one build!

Having a cost to remove Shards smothers this. And ironically, the people who do what you suggest and plan things out ahead of time are the ones that are impacted by this cost the least. Of course you'll feel that complaining about this is unnecessary when it doesn't get in your way. For many of us it does.

No one is telling you not to experiment. Have the costs upfront before getting into it. Helminth abilities are quite forgiving to start with so that is a non-issue.

You should be on warframe wiki to find out what works and what wont work with certain frames. I rarely use other people's builds. I ha e been playing this game for over 10 years. At some point you will understand possible synergies, then spec into it. What I see here are folks who want to spec into useless builds and then change because it is unsatisfactory. "Well of life, blood alter, petrify. They are mostly useless abilities since varazin exists.

As for archon shards, know which ones you want to use before you do it. Hmm unless you are hurting on shards and are sharing them between frames. I always have surplus on all the shards so I didn't think of that aspect.

[PublikDomain]

8 minutes ago, ominumi said:

What are you experimenting? Trial and error combination of archon colors will yield the highest damage?

Well, for example, DE added Emerald Shards. I use Toxin on my Gorgon. So I took out two Shards and replaced them with Emeralds for the Toxin buffs to see if they'd be valuable. One of each doesn't seem to be doing much, but maybe two Toxin to Health would be good? Maybe two extra Toxin damage would be good? Maybe switching to Blast Shards would be worth trying when the update hits? Maybe I should have just stuck with generic non-weapon Shards? I tried the one with the Electric primary damage. I didn't like it and took it out. Do I prefer one Casting Speed Shard or two? How am I supposed to know if these will work if I don't try them for myself? Writing it out on paper only gets you so far. And there's a lot more experimenting I'd love to do - but I already know where it ends: me burning my resources to try things that will inevitably be less good than where I started.

11 minutes ago, pisces13 said:

No one is telling you not to experiment.

The cost to experiment is telling me not to experiment. It costs me less if I don't experiment, so I don't experiment.

12 minutes ago, pisces13 said:

You should be on warframe wiki to find out what works and what wont work with certain frames. I rarely use other people's builds. I ha e been playing this game for over 10 years. At some point you will understand possible synergies, then spec into it. What I see here are folks who want to spec into useless builds and then change because it is unsatisfactory. "Well of life, blood alter, petrify. They are mostly useless abilities since varazin exists.

And that's the fundamental disagreement. Some of us feel that you should be playing the game to find out what works and what won't. What you call "spec[cing] into useless builds" others call "trying out their ideas". Yeah, sometimes the results are unsatisfactory. Sometimes your experiments fail and that's normal. But why should you be taxed for trying a build in a game all about trying out builds? Do you have to pay a fee to change Mods? Arcanes? Even with Helminth there's no cost to remove an ability if what you try fails.

[pisces13]

1 hour ago, PublikDomain said:

Well, for example, DE added Emerald Shards. I use Toxin on my Gorgon. So I took out two Shards and replaced them with Emeralds for the Toxin buffs to see if they'd be valuable. One of each doesn't seem to be doing much, but maybe two Toxin to Health would be good? Maybe two extra Toxin damage would be good? Maybe switching to Blast Shards would be worth trying when the update hits? Maybe I should have just stuck with generic non-weapon Shards? I tried the one with the Electric primary damage. I didn't like it and took it out. Do I prefer one Casting Speed Shard or two? How am I supposed to know if these will work if I don't try them for myself? Writing it out on paper only gets you so far. And there's a lot more experimenting I'd love to do - but I already know where it ends: me burning my resources to try things that will inevitably be less good than where I started.

The cost to experiment is telling me not to experiment. It costs me less if I don't experiment, so I don't experiment.

And that's the fundamental disagreement. Some of us feel that you should be playing the game to find out what works and what won't. What you call "spec[cing] into useless builds" others call "trying out their ideas". Yeah, sometimes the results are unsatisfactory. Sometimes your experiments fail and that's normal. But why should you be taxed for trying a build in a game all about trying out builds? Do you have to pay a fee to change Mods? Arcanes? Even with Helminth there's no cost to remove an ability if what you try fails.

Understandable. More power to you. Maybe DE will do something about it in the future.

[ominumi]

3 hours ago, PublikDomain said:

Well, for example, DE added Emerald Shards. I use Toxin on my Gorgon. So I took out two Shards and replaced them with Emeralds for the Toxin buffs to see if they'd be valuable. One of each doesn't seem to be doing much, but maybe two Toxin to Health would be good? Maybe two extra Toxin damage would be good? Maybe switching to Blast Shards would be worth trying when the update hits? Maybe I should have just stuck with generic non-weapon Shards? I tried the one with the Electric primary damage. I didn't like it and took it out. Do I prefer one Casting Speed Shard or two? How am I supposed to know if these will work if I don't try them for myself? Writing it out on paper only gets you so far. And there's a lot more experimenting I'd love to do - but I already know where it ends: me burning my resources to try things that will inevitably be less good than where I started.

Just like the time I put in 10 Forma into Amprex to make Blast CC an entire room. It didn't work.

[PublikDomain]

54 minutes ago, ominumi said:

Just like the time I put in 10 Forma into Amprex to make Blast CC an entire room. It didn't work.

Yes, Forma has some of the same problems with stifling experimentation. If you invest a ton of Forma, you can be locked in to certain sets of polarities and be unable to fit builds into other configs or try new builds. Luckily this doesn't happen all that often.

[ominumi]

2 hours ago, PublikDomain said:

Yes, Forma has some of the same problems with stifling experimentation. If you invest a ton of Forma, you can be locked in to certain sets of polarities and be unable to fit builds into other configs or try new builds. Luckily this doesn't happen all that often.

You start seeing a pattern here? Pay to skip. Har Har! Use plat to buy Bile resources.