Putting Jade on Ice: DE’s Misstep with the Jade Shadows Update

[ChangelingRain]

Disclaimer: This post is being made on behalf of my warframe group - while I agree with it, it was not written by me personally, and most likely neither I nor they will be responding to it. It is also going to be laying a lot at DE’s feet; Hanlon’s Razor is in full effect. The issues raised here were likely not created with malice, but due to lack of thought given to what was being written—DE has made a major mistake, but they did not set out to make this mistake.

Now that the patch has had time to sit, my warframe group has come to the conclusion we need to make a post outside of a private discord server discussing our thoughts. This patch had been extremely hyped in our group in the lead up to the release—lore on the Stalker, a new frame that was angel themed, and of course the gameplay changes. However, having played through the story, the majority of us came to the conclusion that the quest and its treatment of Jade represent a massive misstep from DE.
 

First off, there is Jade’s role in the quest as delivered. She is a comatose body on a bed whose only purpose is to provide character development for Stalker. As part of this, she dies in childbirth, thereby motivating him to become a good father for his son. This is a textbook example of fridging. For those who don’t know, fridging is the use of violence or tragedy against women in a story for the sole purpose of motivating a male character to action. Specifically, the woman only exists as motivation for the man through the tragedy that befalls her. Jade’s entire purpose in the plot is to be a) a womb and b) waste away then die in childbirth for Stalker to be sad about, which fits this trope to a T.

But the misogynistic tropes don’t end at fridging. See, Jade’s sacrifice is seen as noble and righteous; worthy of remembrance. She is forced to give up her life for her child and it is seen as a good thing that she did. This, as it turns out, falls firmly into a very common conservative anti-abortion talking point; one of the main arguments for abortion is that it is sometimes required for the mother to survive. The counterpoint to this argument is often that the most noble and holy thing that a woman can do is die to give birth to her child. So, not only is she an angel, she could be seen as an ideal mother with her decision to die to give birth. This makes her uncomfortably close to conservative Christian ideals for women, and while DE can say whatever they want with their art, based on previous creative decisions this is likely something they would rather avoid especially for a brand new playable Warframe.
 

Speaking of Jade as a playable Warframe, the decision to make her pregnant as a playable frame is frankly baffling and upsetting. Jade has three concepts tied to her: angels, the Jade Light, and pregnancy. Two of these were highly highly desired in our group (and the wider playerbase if general reactions are anything to go by), but they are now permanently tied to the third, unless DE wishes to retread concepts. This locks off the other concepts from those that can’t bring themselves to play as a pregnant character. Why someone may not wish to play a pregnant character has many varied answers, but considering both the sheer cultural weight and the actual danger something like pregnancy brings I would have expected DE to realize that those people exist in significant amounts. This is, of course, ignoring the people that don’t want to play Jade not for issues with her being pregnant, but for her treatment in the story.
 

Finally, there is the issue of DE’s marketing. Hiding and hyping up the reveal that Jade was Stalker’s SO, the mother of his son, caused our group to feel misled; the marketing was focused on Jade being a “mirror” of Stalker, either out and out saying that, or implying that he needs to find a change to find peace with himself, or shots of him taking on Jade’s elements, and so on. Now, giving all this to a group of transgender fans led us to draw very, very different conclusions, especially since this patch was released right in the middle of pride month. Yes, Jade being transfem Stalker was a long shot, but if anyone would do it it would be DE, right? No. In fact, DE decided to release an extremely heteronormative and honestly misogynistic storyline right in the middle of Pride Month - something they otherwise seem to value quite highly given the Pride Times and the various cosmetics in the market every year.

Not to say that trans Stalker is the only thing DE could have done with Jade—I personally thought Jade was going to be Stalker's mother at first in the quest. She could have also been his sister and that would have worked just fine. Alternatively, they could have kept Jade being pregnant and not fridged her. She could have turned up suddenly one day revealing she was giving birth soon and needed help. She could have mysteriously started appearing and the Stalker drops everything and runs after her. She could have done something off screen in the past and left the baby behind in stasis. I’m sure there are plenty of other options DE could have gone with that would have made a better story and—more importantly—one that was not actively insulting.
 

This is leaving aside the actual lore of the quest itself (it revealed very little, if anything, regarding the very long standing questions of who the Stalker actually is). That is beyond the scope of this post as this is focused on the more pressing matter. DE has released bad quests. Their writers aren’t perfect and that’s fine. But they have never misstepped in a storyline so hard they started endorsing conservative talking points during Pride Month. They have never released a frame with a core concept they had hid until release—a concept they must have known would be contentious—while marketing it with two other very very hotly anticipated concepts. They have never forced us to play a minor giving birth. This patch was a disappointment from a story perspective, and has definitely killed a lot of our motivation to play. Are the majority of us quitting? No. But the tone we have talked about the game with has changed. And personally? I regret playing the storyline and building Jade.

Addendum: What could fix this?
So, we are compelled to suggest solutions to the problems raised. While often pointless (there is a very true axiom in game dev circles that players are good at finding problems and not solutions), we do feel compelled to suggest some solutions. First off, and already suggested, make a non-pregnant skin for Jade. This would let people play her without constantly being forced to confront the element of pregnancy (and to a lesser extent, the elements in her story).

For the story? There’s no saving it. The correct decision imo would be a full retcon and rewrite - an extremely unlikely prospect, but the only way to solve issues as core as Jade being fridged or conflating death in childbirth as holy and good.

Edited June 21 by ChangelingRain
pasted formatting being uneditable is truly a nightmare for the ages

[SpicyDinosaur]

This is pretty much impossible to read with black text if you are using dark mode, as a head's up.

[V2lkyr]

A lot of the issue comes from the fact that Jade has no other characterization than being Stalker's dead wife, her entire purpose is tied to furthering his plot.

Imo it would've landed better if this update also released with a Leverian focused on her.

It does suck since Warframes rarely get post-launch lore,so she's likely only going to get mentioned again in a couple years when her Prime releases.

[PorpitaPorpita]

I agree wholeheartedly with your assessment on the matter. I also think that it wasn't DE's intention to be misogynistic, it was only that they unintentionally played into misogynistic themes and tropes. 

However, my only point of contention is that I don't think a rework or retcon is necessary or even remotely likely, but I do think there are other ways to salvage the situation. I, personally, am of the belief that one day returning to Jade as a frame to flesh out her character (outside of any connection to the Stalker or their child) would go a long way to giving her more agency/more reason to exist as a character than just a narrative plot point. I'm talking a brief prequel quest, or even some manner of Leverian entry. That would, ideally, give us some actual information about her as more than just the Stalker's wife. Her history, her connection to the Jade Light, etc. That might help develop her as a character, and make her seem at least a little less like they made her for the sole purpose of dying for the Stalker's development. 

It would also be nice to, at some point in the future, have a canonically trans warframe  👉👈

[0bsi]

I agree with pretty much everything you've said here.  It's such a shame this quest wasn't handled better.

A lot of potential to the idea of the story, but with it being so short it left no room for Jade's character to be developed to be more than vehicle for driving Stalker's story.... and then we get left with a playable frame that leaves a lot of players uncomfortable.

A situation that could have easily been avoided with some forethought.

[Talis7]

Discussed a possible way they could have done the story earlier in the day. If a rewrite happens my suggestion on story and designs.

1. Had it so Stalker has to stay by Jade's side to give a sort of energy infusion to keep her and the child going and vice versa. 

2. Have Jade conscious and doing conversation with the tenno.

3. Have Hanhow (is that how you spell his name?) be the contact that gets in touch with the tenno as both Stalker and Jade would be bedridden.

4. Tenno is talked with the fetching of ingredients from Hanhow and is also required to give some energy and maybe some of their ships 'cook?'.

5. Jade survives as well as child. 

6. Bump is optional in social settings.

7. Nonbump in combat areas. Or a toggle in options that makes it so pregnancy is not visible in combat areas. <-- Best of both worlds solution where everyone is happy I think.

Thoughts? 

[Indra163]

Today i learned what fridging is.

1: i think the story is fine some points you made don't seem to line up let alone i don't think DE meant to be misogynistic.
2: You lost me after a first paragraph considering it didn't feel that way least from what i hear everyone liked the story
3:  you confirmed by typing in shadows to play the quest it gave you were given a warning before playing it
4: I'm looking forward to seeing what they will do with the stalker and the baby

Edited June 21 by Indra163

[ChangelingRain]

11 minutes ago, Indra163 said:

Today i learned what fridging is.

1: i think the story is fine some points you made don't seem to line up let alone i don't think DE meant to be misogynistic.
2: You lost me after a first paragraph considering it didn't feel that way least from what i hear everyone liked the story
3:  you confirmed by typing in shadows to play the quest it gave you were given a warning before playing it
4: I'm looking forward to seeing what they will do with the stalker and the baby

1: Well, yes, the post notes that it most likely wasn't malice.

2: Okay. Our warframe group didn't like it though so we made this post about why.

3: That warning is dramatically inaccurate to the events of the quest to the point where it is useless.

[skaianDestiny]

Posting this for my friend in response to the post:

Quote

i think it would be worthwhile to ALSO add that

1. the content warning is not specific enough to be useful for what it’s supposed to be warning people about. they’re trying so hard to hide the “big reveal” that the content warning could mean… anything. Jade could be his mother. she could be a person who had a motherly relationship with any person in the universe. she could have already had a child when made into a warframe. some random other character could have showed up who was a mother. NOWHERE does it warn about pregnancy. NOWHERE does it warn about DYING IN CHILDBIRTH. that’s not “trauma related to motherhood” it’s extremely specific
2. it is trans-exclusionary to imply that pregnancy is only possible for cis women. bundling the entire concept of pregnancy and childbirth under the word “motherhood” makes that implication. not all people who can get pregnant are women/mothers. not all mothers can be pregnant.

imo the language of the content warning NEEDS to be changed just so that it will appropriately warn people who have GENUINE TRAUMA RELATED TO CHILDBIRTH OR DEATH IN CHILDBIRTH. im JUST kinda bothered by the idea of pregnancy in general and this quest would have been so much worse for me if i hadn’t been warned by another friend. I can’t imagine what it would be like for someone who actually lost a family member that way, or who *almost* did, or who has reason to be upset about the possibility

I fully fully agree that I won’t be able to play her unless she gets a non-pregnant skin. im kinda pissed that they put such cool concepts into a warframe and then THEY, THE WRITERS, reduced her to nothing but her pregnancy. don’t touch any of the cool stuff. she’s a SPECIAL ANGELIC WOMAN WHO MADE A NOBLE SACRIFICE FOR HER CHILD AND HUSBAND and NOTNING ELSE

 

[Rann0n]

3 hours ago, ChangelingRain said:

one of the main arguments for abortion is that it is sometimes required for the mother to survive. The counterpoint to this argument is often that the most noble and holy thing that a woman can do is die to give birth to her child. So, not only is she an angel, she could be seen as an ideal mother with her decision to die to give birth. This makes her uncomfortably close to conservative Christian ideals for women

 Am I the only one who finds this reasoning superficial? Have you ever been pregnant, OP? Have you at least been close to a pregnant woman?

My wife is currently pregnant and is about to give birth in just about a month. Not everything goes as smooth as we'd wish it to, so from time to time, "what if" questions are raised. And in a situation where it's the mother's or unborn child's life, my wife would've chosen the child, and I would've chosen my wife. And not because of her being "misogynistic" and me being "progressive" but because her hormonal background is changed due to pregnancy and mine isn't.

Of course, after our child is born, they both will be equally valuable to me. And if I had to sacrifice myself for either of them, I would, not because I'm "influenced by the conservatice christian ideals", but because I wouldn't be able to forgive myself for not doing it and live normally anyways.

[Indra163]

9 minutes ago, Rann0n said:

 Am I the only one who finds this reasoning superficial? Have you ever been pregnant, OP? Have you at least been close to a pregnant woman?

My wife is currently pregnant and is about to give birth in just about a month. Not everything goes as smooth as we'd wish it to, so from time to time, "what if" questions are raised. And in a situation where it's the mother's or unborn child's life, my wife would've chosen the child, and I would've chosen my wife. And not because of her being "misogynistic" and me being "progressive" but because her hormonal background is changed due to pregnancy and mine isn't.

Of course, after our child is born, they both will be equally valuable to me. And if I had to sacrifice myself for either of them, I would, not because I'm "influenced by the conservatice christian ideals", but because I wouldn't be able to forgive myself for not doing it and live normally anyways.

I respect this. i hope you and your wife will have a happy life

[Rann0n]

As for non-pregnant Jade skin, I'd even vote for it to be the only playable variant.

[Bearssi]

7 hours ago, ChangelingRain said:

First off, there is Jade’s role in the quest as delivered. She is a comatose body on a bed whose only purpose is to provide character development for Stalker. As part of this, she dies in childbirth, thereby motivating him to become a good father for his son. This is a textbook example of fridging. For those who don’t know, fridging is the use of violence or tragedy against women in a story for the sole purpose of motivating a male character to action. Specifically, the woman only exists as motivation for the man through the tragedy that befalls her. Jade’s entire purpose in the plot is to be a) a womb and b) waste away then die in childbirth for Stalker to be sad about, which fits this trope to a T.

 

I have been stuck and stressed about the fact our young Operator is made to help with Transference into Jade to deliver/give birth with labor push simulated minigame. Now the thought appeared, Jade was unconscious and helped to die in childbirth for Stalkers baby. I should probably just not think about this this deep.

Edited June 21 by Bearssi

[Sverdar]

once again people much more eloquent than me put into words what has been bothering me this whole time.

massive queerbaiting aside (yes trans stalker was a long shot, but they HAVE pointed towards that theory in several ways so it wasnt unlikely and it would have been nice to have some trans rep that isnt a side vendor (as much as i adore and love ticker) or a cop out like xaku (being nonbinary myself, it felt a tad insulting to have "nonbinary rep" being a frame thats nb on account of being made up out of 3 different people)) im mostly just immensly disappointed that DE, for some reason, had to resort to old, worn out tropes that are borderline misogynistic when they have proven time and again that they have competent, amazing writers that dont need lame tropes in the first place (see: the sacrifice, whispers in the walls, the new war etc)

one other thing i really dislike is how they framed the quest in a way to make us sympathize with the stalker, but it had the exact opposite effect on me; think about it. why was jade made a warframe, in a pregnant state no less? because ballas is a sadistic mess that (presumably) wanted to punish her for being in love with someone of lower standing, sorren/the stalker. what does the stalker, who is still an orokin bootlicker after that for whatever reason, do? he tries to do it all himself, because hes too proud to ask the people that slaughtered the orokin (the people that put him and jade in this situation in the first place), the tenno, for help. For however many years. While his pregnant partner is laying there half comatose and in agony. In essence, hes too proud to suck it up and ask the tenno for help, and prefers to keep HIS PREGNANT PARTNER in a state of agony and pain for an undefined amount of time. you want me to sympathize with that guy, just because hes a father now? yeah no if anything i have much, much less respect for him now than i ever did

this whole quest and story could have been so, so, so interesting if only they reached out and did more with it than whats been done a million times before :(

[(PSN)UmbralHalo]

Thanks for bringing your opinion so well written across. 

 

I genuinely like the quest, but the fridging part really bothered me as well. I hadn't even thought about the abortion themes, either. I'm not from the US. My country is fine with abortion (for now. The right is growing and growing).

But this really made me see at least some parts of the quest in another light. 

 

I don't think I want DE to change anything. It would feel wrong. I much rather want to see them continue this particular story line (which they probably will) and turn it into something better.

 

But as I'm thinking about this right now, Jade is still the victim in all this. 

There are women like her. She didn't do it out of her free will. The pregnancy was an accident. For that she was turned into a Warframe while pregnant, while Stalker walked away fine? Maybe turned into a Warframe too, sure. But he was still loyal to his masters? She was forced into this. Had to live as a Warframe while pregnant and ended up dying because of it. We don't know if she ever wanted this, apart from at the end, when pretty much the last thing she could do was to save the creature inside of her.

Maybe the continuation of this story could actually turn into a good representation for what some women actually have to go through. 

The pressure. The lack of choice when it comes to their own body.

Especially, when I consider my theory (for now) that Stalker betrayed Jade and told his Orokin Masters of her pregnancy. Out of fear, or the blind hope of a loyal servant that they would be spared. Of course he probably didn't expect what they'd do to her. But this particular story line could turn into something educational, emotional and moving. 

We started with something the conservatives tend to romanticise.

It would be cool to see this then turned into very harsh reality. To see it turn into the exact opposite. Into a cruel, harsh and horrific story that teaches the audience how awful some women are being treated.

I believe Jade was at absolute rock bottom in the orokin empire. Stalker already was a low guard. A servant. So what was Jade then? The pregnant forbidden wife of a low guard?

So rock bottom. A place where a lot of women irl are as well, even today. 

Edited June 22 by (PSN)UmbralHalo

[Teletric]

On 2024-06-20 at 7:42 PM, ChangelingRain said:

In fact, DE decided to release an extremely heteronormative and honestly misogynistic storyline right in the middle of Pride Month

It feels very disingenous to state "In fact" when you have admitted that this post is based on the subjective experiences of your group. I can understand how it may be disappointing, but it feels like DE just wanted to tell a story about fatherhood around the time of Father's Day (June 16th). It may or may not be unfortunate that it falls smack-dab in the middle of Pride Month, but it is what it is.

From an outside point of view, it feels like your group is framing the story in a way where it appears misogynistic, which isn't really on the developers. Most players that come out of this story do not do so with misogynistic thoughts in their heads — they just appreciate it for the story.

You claim that Hanlon's Razor is in full effect here, but it also feels like there appears to be a lack of Occam's Razor within your group. Sometimes, a story is just a story — it is not trying to drastically alter anyone's world views or change the world; it's just trying to make you feel something, which the story has accomplished for many. Sure, the writers can always do more to curb the potential for people to misconstrue their intentions and find some "hidden meaning" that goes against what the creators intended (more often done due to their own pre-existing biases and connotations), but it still falls squarely on the person experiencing the art to do as such; blaming it on the developers hardly feels fair.

 

Edited June 22 by Teletric
clarity

[ChangelingRain]

4 hours ago, Teletric said:

snip

'Admitted' and 'subjective' are doing a lot of work here - the facts of the quest and Jade's use in it are very clear, the timing is very clear(both pride month and father's day), and Hanlon's Razor is when it's not deliberate malice but still comes across very badly. That they didn't do it like this on purpose is, in fact, our point.

[Khornelia]

Thank you so much for this post, you summed up my thoughts much more competently than I could have! <3

[PollexMessier]

You were doing so well until you started using terms like "heteronormative" and "transfem"

Nobody with a half functioning brain actually thought or wanted Jade to be Trans stalker. I guarantee that would have been met with as much if not far more backlash than this whole pregnancy thing.

I think brother and sister would have probably been the best approach. Instead of the stupid baby plot, have the Jade light be the thing that's slowly killing her. Then maybe we'd have actually gotten some lore on that. Seems kindof important since that's a huge part of her theme and we know next to nothing about it. If DE wanted to release a trans Frame. It should have been Equinox. They really missed their best opportunity for that on that one.

It's honestly a bit disappointing how good you were going right up to that point. Those two paragraphs are gonna get the rest of your post ignored by a lot of people that would have otherwise fully agreed with it.

As a slightly off-topic observation: We've been getting a little bit too much romance in the game recently. I loved the Albrecht and Loid thing, but romance plots are overall one of my least favorite things in media. They almost always come at the expense of the plot, unless they are the main plot. We had practically 0 romance in the game (except saya's vigil) right up until Reb became the creative director. Now it kinda feels like all romance all the time. It's getting old real fast. I don't hate Reb. But her influence on the game's creative direction is... Apparent.

Edited June 23 by PollexMessier

[Yrkul]

On 2024-06-21 at 6:00 AM, Rann0n said:

 Am I the only one who finds this reasoning superficial? Have you ever been pregnant, OP? Have you at least been close to a pregnant woman?

My wife is currently pregnant and is about to give birth in just about a month. Not everything goes as smooth as we'd wish it to, so from time to time, "what if" questions are raised. And in a situation where it's the mother's or unborn child's life, my wife would've chosen the child, and I would've chosen my wife. And not because of her being "misogynistic" and me being "progressive" but because her hormonal background is changed due to pregnancy and mine isn't.

Of course, after our child is born, they both will be equally valuable to me. And if I had to sacrifice myself for either of them, I would, not because I'm "influenced by the conservatice christian ideals", but because I wouldn't be able to forgive myself for not doing it and live normally anyways.

Congratulation with the new one, and best wishes.

[NameLessFreak]

On 2024-06-21 at 1:42 AM, ChangelingRain said:

Disclaimer: This post is being made on behalf of my warframe group - while I agree with it, it was not written by me personally, and most likely neither I nor they will be responding to it. It is also going to be laying a lot at DE’s feet; Hanlon’s Razor is in full effect. The issues raised here were likely not created with malice, but due to lack of thought given to what was being written—DE has made a major mistake, but they did not set out to make this mistake.

Now that the patch has had time to sit, my warframe group has come to the conclusion we need to make a post outside of a private discord server discussing our thoughts. This patch had been extremely hyped in our group in the lead up to the release—lore on the Stalker, a new frame that was angel themed, and of course the gameplay changes. However, having played through the story, the majority of us came to the conclusion that the quest and its treatment of Jade represent a massive misstep from DE.
 

First off, there is Jade’s role in the quest as delivered. She is a comatose body on a bed whose only purpose is to provide character development for Stalker. As part of this, she dies in childbirth, thereby motivating him to become a good father for his son. This is a textbook example of fridging. For those who don’t know, fridging is the use of violence or tragedy against women in a story for the sole purpose of motivating a male character to action. Specifically, the woman only exists as motivation for the man through the tragedy that befalls her. Jade’s entire purpose in the plot is to be a) a womb and b) waste away then die in childbirth for Stalker to be sad about, which fits this trope to a T.

But the misogynistic tropes don’t end at fridging. See, Jade’s sacrifice is seen as noble and righteous; worthy of remembrance. She is forced to give up her life for her child and it is seen as a good thing that she did. This, as it turns out, falls firmly into a very common conservative anti-abortion talking point; one of the main arguments for abortion is that it is sometimes required for the mother to survive. The counterpoint to this argument is often that the most noble and holy thing that a woman can do is die to give birth to her child. So, not only is she an angel, she could be seen as an ideal mother with her decision to die to give birth. This makes her uncomfortably close to conservative Christian ideals for women, and while DE can say whatever they want with their art, based on previous creative decisions this is likely something they would rather avoid especially for a brand new playable Warframe.
 

Speaking of Jade as a playable Warframe, the decision to make her pregnant as a playable frame is frankly baffling and upsetting. Jade has three concepts tied to her: angels, the Jade Light, and pregnancy. Two of these were highly highly desired in our group (and the wider playerbase if general reactions are anything to go by), but they are now permanently tied to the third, unless DE wishes to retread concepts. This locks off the other concepts from those that can’t bring themselves to play as a pregnant character. Why someone may not wish to play a pregnant character has many varied answers, but considering both the sheer cultural weight and the actual danger something like pregnancy brings I would have expected DE to realize that those people exist in significant amounts. This is, of course, ignoring the people that don’t want to play Jade not for issues with her being pregnant, but for her treatment in the story.
 

Finally, there is the issue of DE’s marketing. Hiding and hyping up the reveal that Jade was Stalker’s SO, the mother of his son, caused our group to feel misled; the marketing was focused on Jade being a “mirror” of Stalker, either out and out saying that, or implying that he needs to find a change to find peace with himself, or shots of him taking on Jade’s elements, and so on. Now, giving all this to a group of transgender fans led us to draw very, very different conclusions, especially since this patch was released right in the middle of pride month. Yes, Jade being transfem Stalker was a long shot, but if anyone would do it it would be DE, right? No. In fact, DE decided to release an extremely heteronormative and honestly misogynistic storyline right in the middle of Pride Month - something they otherwise seem to value quite highly given the Pride Times and the various cosmetics in the market every year.

Not to say that trans Stalker is the only thing DE could have done with Jade—I personally thought Jade was going to be Stalker's mother at first in the quest. She could have also been his sister and that would have worked just fine. Alternatively, they could have kept Jade being pregnant and not fridged her. She could have turned up suddenly one day revealing she was giving birth soon and needed help. She could have mysteriously started appearing and the Stalker drops everything and runs after her. She could have done something off screen in the past and left the baby behind in stasis. I’m sure there are plenty of other options DE could have gone with that would have made a better story and—more importantly—one that was not actively insulting.
 

This is leaving aside the actual lore of the quest itself (it revealed very little, if anything, regarding the very long standing questions of who the Stalker actually is). That is beyond the scope of this post as this is focused on the more pressing matter. DE has released bad quests. Their writers aren’t perfect and that’s fine. But they have never misstepped in a storyline so hard they started endorsing conservative talking points during Pride Month. They have never released a frame with a core concept they had hid until release—a concept they must have known would be contentious—while marketing it with two other very very hotly anticipated concepts. They have never forced us to play a minor giving birth. This patch was a disappointment from a story perspective, and has definitely killed a lot of our motivation to play. Are the majority of us quitting? No. But the tone we have talked about the game with has changed. And personally? I regret playing the storyline and building Jade.

Addendum: What could fix this?
So, we are compelled to suggest solutions to the problems raised. While often pointless (there is a very true axiom in game dev circles that players are good at finding problems and not solutions), we do feel compelled to suggest some solutions. First off, and already suggested, make a non-pregnant skin for Jade. This would let people play her without constantly being forced to confront the element of pregnancy (and to a lesser extent, the elements in her story).

For the story? There’s no saving it. The correct decision imo would be a full retcon and rewrite - an extremely unlikely prospect, but the only wa to solve issues as core as Jade being fridged or conflating death in childbirth as holy and good.

The correct decision would be for you to realize you are not a moral authority nor are you speaking for the majority of people. 

The only problems that exist within your head. The whole "sacrificing yourself for your child is christian conservative" thing... did you at no point conceptualize how stupid and honestly, misogynistic and disrespectful to women who want children or are mothers this is? Degrading them to nothing but a political talking point you disagree with. As if you can't be liberal and do everything for your child.

The fact you said all this because you convinced yourself Jade would be trans is the cherry on top. Pride isn't about you, you don't represent anyone but yourself, so do not hide behind the banner. 

The absolute audacity to come here and pretend that mothers who sacrifice for their children are somehow weak?!?!?!! Acting like you are doing this for a virtuous cause. That you are fixing a wrong?! 

No, this is unacceptable behavior.

 

[ChangelingRain]

7 hours ago, NameLessFreak said:

snip

Damn, pointing out how a woman has no narrative role other than to die in childbirth is misogyny now...

Oh, wait. No, that's not true.

[Xaero]

23 hours ago, ChangelingRain said:

a woman has no narrative role other than to die in childbirth

Serving as Orokin executioner? Posessing a legendary weapon mentioned in different parts of the game (Jade even executed Margulis with it)?

Guess no role is good enough if it's not a "trans Stalker".

[PorpitaPorpita]

32 minutes ago, Xaero said:

Serving as Orokin executioner? Posessing a legendary weapon mentioned in different parts of the game (Jade even executed Margulis with it)?

Guess no role is good enough if it's not a "trans Stalker".

I think the problem is that none of that was what the quest was about. None of it was even mentioned, really. I think everyone would be a lot happier if some of that content was also in the quest, but instead, it just feels like they took the coolest lore set-up for a frame that there's been since Umbra, and completely side-lined said frame for the sake of a different character. Even ignoring the misogynistic tones of said sidelining, which apparently seems to be up for debate, it still feels like a lot of wasted potential. 

It feels like there's so much more interesting, Jade-adjacent concepts that could've been explored. For example, what you said, the killing of Margulis, and exploring the emotional ramifications. That would've had so much more weight than what we did get, imo. 

Instead, it feels like this huge, deep well of lore was used for a very shallow plot beat.

[Xaero]

1 hour ago, PorpitaPorpita said:

I think the problem is that none of that was what the quest was about. None of it was even mentioned, really. I think everyone would be a lot happier if some of that content was also in the quest, but instead, it just feels like they took the coolest lore set-up for a frame that there's been since Umbra, and completely side-lined said frame for the sake of a different character. Even ignoring the misogynistic tones of said sidelining, which apparently seems to be up for debate, it still feels like a lot of wasted potential. 

It feels like there's so much more interesting, Jade-adjacent concepts that could've been explored. For example, what you said, the killing of Margulis, and exploring the emotional ramifications. That would've had so much more weight than what we did get, imo. 

Instead, it feels like this huge, deep well of lore was used for a very shallow plot beat.

If I was really interested in a character, I wouldn't limit myself to just playing the quest and ignore all the rest.

Blaming DE for not meeting your personal standards of minority representation is one thing, but it's outright false info to claim the character has a single role in story when she doesn't.